1. MrJ says

    Yes, but can we all just agree how obnoxious vegans can be? It isn’t really as healthy as most of them seem think and all of them die anyway…just like the rest of us.

  2. Rovex says

    I agree. Vegetarians are one thing, but Vegans.. they are irritating and their food tastes horrible.

  3. andrew says

    Does Jonah think 18 year olds are too young to serve in the military and possibly be wounded or even die in the Armed Forces?

  4. FilmTurtle says

    Jamie Kilstein is someone you should know. He’s a very funny, bright, politically aware comedian and podcaster, prolific on Twitter, and a big LGBT ally. You HAVE to see one of his epic rants on the ridiculousness of being against gay marriage.

    If this link doesn’t work, do a Google search on his name and “gay marriage.”

  5. Brandon K. Thorp says


    Thanks for that! I’ll put it in the link roundup tonight.

    – BKT

  6. hashfag says

    I don’t know what I hate more – neo-conservatives or whiny preachy vegans.

  7. Will says

    Go ahead and make fun of vegans, and feel free to eat your way to heart disease, diabetes, cancer and a host of other preventable diseases. Yes, we all are going to die, but that is an oversimplification that leaves quality of life out.

  8. DrJWL says

    Sorry @WILL, your comment suggests that vegans do not get diabetes or heart disease. Let me educate you on something called TYPE 1 Diabetes and something else called HEREDITARY HEART DISEASE. Go sell smug somewhere else.

  9. Tyler says

    We in the Jewish community know that there’s a special place in the world for Jewish Republicans.

    This whiny dishonest greedy little coward is in the same league as the gay republicans in their collective inability to stand on their own two feet.

    There’s a reason that republicans try to dupe liberals into emotional arguments like in Goldberg’s pathetic book – it’s because they cant’ sit calmly and rationally and discuss simple plain facts – simple plain facts prove the republicans to be wrong. So they put on their piety shoes, attempt to talk in circles, frustrate intelligent minds with their refusal to be clear and honest, and then throw their hands in the air and say “oh, typical liberals who can’t handle differences of opinion.”

    From one Jew to another, Goldberg – congrats on helping to finish Hitler’s work. You are an embarrassment.

  10. Nat says

    “Go ahead and make fun of vegans, and feel free to eat your way to heart disease, diabetes, cancer and a host of other preventable diseases.”

    None of those things are necessarily preventable. Hereditary factors can play major roles. It’s terrible, I know, not to be able to justify all that self-righteousness, but one can be level 5 vegan and still die from a heart attack.

  11. Nat says

    “Yes, we all are going to die, but that is an oversimplification that leaves quality of life out.”

    Cutting out a tasty food group sure as hell diminishes my quality of life.

  12. Randy says

    Wait… voting is based on competence? If that was the rule, Republicans and conservatives generally would be banned from voting for their entire lives.

    Maybe there’s something to this…

    Humor aside, I think the voting age should be reduced to 16.

  13. FilmTurtle says

    BKT — Cheers. Kilstein and his wife Allison Kilkenny are pretty great, and slowly building a fan base through podcasting and social networking. They may not be to everyone’s taste but they strive to be politically aware and balanced. And Kilstein can be really hilarious in his standup.

    (Andy may have posted some of his rants already, which made the rounds of the blogosphere.)

  14. Will says

    Ignorance is bliss. Read the studies and come back with an informed comment and maybe I will take you serious. Nice straw man about type one diabetes btw,.

  15. andrew says

    @Hashfag: Hate the neo-cons more. They are the ones who have sent countless thousands of our military to death in needless wars. Of course almost none of them including jonah ever served in the Armed Forces. They are elite snobs who use people as pawns in their games.

  16. Will says

    Heart disease can be reversed through a plant – based diet. So can type2 diabetes. I know from experience. I really don’t care what you eat, any more than I care if you want to do heroin.

  17. hashfag says

    @Andrew yeah I admit you’re right…

    But with someone like Will spewing his verbal feces it makes it so hard to resist kicking his ass…

  18. Will says

    People who are capable of making a well-reasoned argument don’t feel the need to resort to name-calling.

  19. Mike in the Tundra says

    @ DrJWL – I have been a Type 1 diabetic since I was 11. I’ve been vegan for over a decade. As you might suspect, I will always require insulin. However, I have no eye, kidney, or circulation problems. I also have no neuropathy. I really have no worries about my weight. All this despite the fact that the only way I will ever hit 50 is to back into it.

    Actually, I did not become vegan for health reasons. I’m very concerned about the abuse of animals used for meat and animal products. There are ways of treating these animals in a humanitarian manner, but that requires a lot of space, plus it would make the price of those products much higher than what you would expect to pay in grocery stores. Also, if the whole world became vegan, world hunger would cease to be a problem, because you can raise a lot more of plant sourced food than animal sourced on an acre of land.

    This is the first time I have mentioned my diet on this blog. I really don’t think that makes me irritating or whiny.

  20. Ricco says

    Are you people serious? This is thre conversation you are having . . . vegan vs. what? Carnivores?

    I thought the larger issues would have been socialism, or some measure of it Vs. hard-core, straight down-the-middle-of-the-road capitalism.


    Whether or not 18 year-old’s are socially aware and responsible enough to vote.

    If only the readership, here on Towleroad, were as relevant as the editors and contributors to Towleroad.

    Please try to have an intelligent conversation . . . and oh yeah, since it is the conversation you seem to be wanting . . . it has been my experience that everyone, not just skinny vegans, whine about something . . .

    and no one is suggesting that vegans never get sick, or will never die, but from the beginning of life’s journey to journey’s end, they are, per capita, spending far less time in the hospital, and going to clinics than those who go around with five pounds of undigested beef in their bowels.

  21. ascanius says

    Goldberg’s screed is getting lots of negative reviews on Amazon. You can add to them. Remember he’s a muck-raking foot soldier in Gingrich’s army to redefine words and concepts to harm liberals and liberal causes and to make “liberal” a dirty word. That was the motivation behind his embarrassingly and wildly inaccurate Liberal Fascism, which was panned by real scholars. There he tried to show that Nazis were really liberal leftists because he was tired of right wing fascists like himself being called fascists. Go figure. Now he wants to pretend there’s no right side of history. Fortunately, he’s already shown there’s a wrong side because he’s clearly demonstrated that he’s on it. Goldberg is scum.

  22. NullNaught says

    I like most of what you say almost all the time. I have to say, you present a straw-man argument about the 5 pounds unidgested beef. The amount of time being spent in hospital and going to clinics has nothing to do with it. We are evolved to be carnivores. Veganism is a strictly-speaking unnatural act. No animal eats a diet it is ill-evolved to survive. Veganism is a human perversion of nature. It is unhealthy because of that. It also deteriates quality of life – have you seen their diet?
    Also, I interacted with you when I was H8STR8S. I have always enjoyed your posts and would like to have a discusion about free-will and religion with you as you are a deep thinker. Feel free to contact me at

  23. Mike in the Tundra says

    @ NullNaught – One question – If humans have evolved to be carnivores, why do we have the teeth of herbivores?

  24. NullNaught says

    @Mike in the Tundra
    Thanks, I didn’t edit that well. I meant omnivore. we are evolved to be Omnivores. Is that all you got? Really? You can’t see that is what I meant? All you can do is attack an obvious mistake? Did you think you “Got” me? If you didn’t know we are actually omnivorse and couldn’t put to gether that what I was saying was obviously and completely true if you just made that one correction, you aren’t intellectually equipt for this conversation. Is it not so?
    I want to commend you on not being whiny. You are the exception that proves the rule. Most every other vegan is a preachy, moralising, whiner.
    Good for you.
    Your argument is wrong. Veganism can’t solve world hunger. See Malthus on this. Population increases exponentially, and food production can only ever increase geometrically. It is a mathematic proof we need a great die-off. You might be able to solve world hunger by convincing 90% of the people now here to leave, and not replacing them. Then strictly control population growth so it matches food production. This all is a pipe dream. We are doomed. Eat meat, enjoy yourself while you can…

  25. David C says

    totally wrong-headed argument, later popularized by Glenn Beck, that Nazis are really liberals.”

    NO, Andy!

    That is not Goldberg’s argument. His argument is the Nazi’s and Fascists were Leftists (Socialists). This is indisputable. (Nazi stands for National Socialist after all. And their nationalism doesn’t counteract their socialism.)

    Leftist and liberal are not the same. They are, in fact, poles apart. It is only your devotion to leftist thinking that keeps you from seeing this. Until you can clear up this confusion of yours you will be utterly clueless as to what really ails this country politically.

  26. NullNaught says

    @David C
    Very perceptive. You are of course entirely correct. Please expand.

  27. Nat says

    “Also, if the whole world became vegan, world hunger would cease to be a problem, because you can raise a lot more of plant sourced food than animal sourced on an acre of land.”

    People go hungry because of distribution and local-sourced production issues (e.g. pests and crop failure), not because the land is being used to produce meat. There are environmental concerns with the growing worldwide consumption of meat, but total conversion would not solve world hunger.

  28. Nat says

    “This is indisputable. (Nazi stands for National Socialist after all. And their nationalism doesn’t counteract their socialism.)”

    … yeah, it does. Leaving aside the methodical purges of other ideological strains within the Party during the early 1930s, nationalism is an inherently anti-socialist concept. In terms of intellectual origin, fascism (to the extent it is definable and not simply a pejorative) and socialism are two completely different things.

  29. NullNaught says

    How are you defining Nationalism and socialism?
    Weren’t the Italians the Facscists? I thought Hitler admired the fascists but that Nazis and Fascists aren’t necessarily identical? I am not sure why you bring in the Fascist, in that David C didn’t. I think I did see it elsewhere, so is that why it is in your post?

  30. Adriaand says

    Post-article comments as Straw Man arguments: A political discussion gets turned into trashing Veganism by those who have done no homework on the long term and wide reaching results/impacts of food choices. Do your homework and find out about Quality of Life to the time of death, rates of the diseases all people get [carnivore rates per 1000 vs vegans’ rates of the same disease per 1000 people], especially heart and other fat loaded food impacts, additives and their long term health impacts [BGH, antibiotics in great amounts, estrogen and more] that you ingest with meat, animal adrenaline [and its health impacts] produced while the animals experience their peers’ slaughter in the abbatoir – waiting for their turn to be eaten by you that you ingest with meat, veganism’s impact [or reduced impact] on the environment, the amount of water needed to produce the same amount of nutrition for carnivores or vegans and on the amount of food produced for either choice on the same acreage, on humane animal treatment and respect for life and a vegan’s life time cost to the health care system compared to the average carnivore’s lifetime cost to the health care system.. When you have done your homework, wih scientifically unbiased studies, we’ll talk further.

  31. NullNaught says

    ” humane animal treatment and respect for life ” You assume these are values shared by every person. These are your values. Not everyone’s. Why should we accept them. ”
    When you have done your homework, wih scientifically unbiased studies, we’ll talk further” Who gets to define “Scientifically unbiased studies?” You have no studies that show a causal relation rather than a corelation because any such experiment would be unethical, so you are prima facie referencng pseudo-science. Everyone does things that increas insurance costs for others. You think it is unethical to let your child ride a skateboard? (I do, but that is beside the point.) Without a drastic reduction of human life on this planet all your points about the environment, water, so on are moot.
    You want to address my “Perversion of nature” argument? Carnivorism would be just as bad as veganism. Our kidneys would be badly damaged quickly. Omnivorism is what we were evolved for. Address that.

  32. NullNaught says

    Also “Come back when you…” arguments are a fallacy called arguing from position. That sentence is inherently flawed no matter what follows. :)