Comments

  1. gr8guya says

    Clever, but 1) I am concerned that people will lift the first portion of the speech and omit the second and 2) did the people really understand what he was saying? I thought that there would have been a crowd response when he revealed the true meaning of his quotes.

  2. Caliban says

    It’s a great tactic but at the same time it would have been more effective (IMO) if he done only a minute of those comments then dedicated the bulk of his time to speaking FOR gay rights.

    For many years I was a rare book dealer and I have held my hands books written in the 1800s South in DEFENSE of slavery. One of them was a book written by a minister on how to be a “proper” Christian slave-owner, his recommendations drawn directly from the Bible. (Which in case you don’t know, says you can’t beat a slave to death, but if you beat a slave and he/she doesn’t die until 3 days later then you’re OK. Those 3 days of agony somehow make it better and you’re off the hook so far as God is concerned.)

    (To be fair, there were also minsters and religious folks who opposed slavery too.)

    At EVERY advancement in human rights the Priests and Preachers were there waving their holy book around, opposing it because “The Bible says….”

    Ending slavery.
    Equal votes for blacks.
    Votes for women.
    Ending segregation.
    Allowing interracial marriage.
    The Equal Rights Amendment.

    Every. D@mn. Time.

  3. ChuckC says

    It’s interesting to watch the audience during the first part of the speech. You can see how comforting those words of scripture can be when they support your own subliminal bigotry. Everyone is listening in auto-pilot mode to those familiar words sucking it all in. But this was well played. And most of the audience probably did not like finding out that their comfort zone was in the last century. It might take a while for this to sink in, but the speaker made his point very well.

  4. Bob says

    God Bless this real Christian for standing on the side of truth and justice and equality for all, black and white, gay and straight. God has blessed this man to do his good works.

  5. Icebloo says

    @ Caliban. You’re absolutely correct. If you look around the world, the most religious areas have the least human rights because organized religion keeps people down. In places such as western Europe religion has it ‘s least power and human rights are the best in the world.

    This is no accident. Organized religion is ALL ABOUT MONEY. ALL of them – no exceptions. They are all profit making businesses. People are too afraid/stupid to see that.

    People give more money to these organized religions if they are more in need. Therefore, it’s in the best interests of these organized religions to keep people down. If everyone had great human rights and great quality of life they would forget about religions which means religions would go financially bankrupt.

    Religions are the ones who are working to ensure people don’t get any life improvements. They are always the most against any kind of progress on human rights. It’s the biggest con in history, it’s been happening for centuries and it will continue because most people are morons.

  6. PAUL B. says

    Did those folks look like they had just swallowed some punch or what? If someone told me they were all first cousins…I would say ah-ha, that explains everything. Couldn’t figure out if they liked what he said or even got the punch line. Welcome to Springfield, Mo.
    Personally…I thought it was delightful.

  7. Contrarian says

    @caliban. Trollery and bullcrapon your part. Slavery: ever hear of the Quakers and the underground railroad. The abolitionist movement and its most fiery advocate, the REV. William Lloyd Garrison. John Brown the martyr of abolition and his frquent quotation of scripture. In England, William Wilberforce and others of FAITH. Segregation: the entire movement for freedom from MLK on down was black preachers. I guess you never took history in school or your need to push atheism trumps truth. Your “to be fair” insertion is a meaningless afterthought once you nailed your atheist hostility to the flagpole.

  8. Caliban says

    @Contrarian, bite my @ss.

    EVERY word I said was true. If want EXAMPLES of it, you apologist POS, feel free to use your own Google finger.

    Did I say ALL religious people were in agreement? No, I didn’t. But the fact remains that from the Inquisition to the Witch Hunts to the Defense of Slavery there have been so-called religious folks right there on the frontlines crying that if those they perceive as enemies don’t suffer, if you don’t hate and fear who they TELL you to hate and fear, then the “natural order” will be interrupted and God will burn us all.

    That is unarguable, historical fact.

  9. PAUL B. says

    @Caliban…”bite my @ss”?? Cute! I do agree with most, if not all, of what you say though.
    You’re obviously more well read than I am but my gut tells me that organized religion has almost always been proudly & loudly on the wrong side of history. Certainly as a born & bred catholic…I know it’s a fact. Other religions not positive. Of course there were mavericks, but generally speaking I think they play follow the leader.

  10. peter white says

    Sadly, Pastor Snider has NO feedback because I wanted to thank him so much because up until that moment in the video clip I was under the impression that ALL pastors believed that God didn’t make gay people only Satan did – if you will. Please, because you have feedback, will you pass along the word to the pastor he brings hope.

  11. Melissa says

    The only reason we as Christians are still here, is to speak truth otherwise God would have taken us home the moment we were saved. There is no debating the Bible, but we do have to read it. And be careful, the Bible also clearly states that we will be held accountable for leading others astray… and for our actions or lack of.

    If a man lies with a man as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination Lev 20:13, “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gove after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire” Jude 7. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

  12. Caliban says

    Blah, blah, blah, Melissa. The Bible also says that women should basically keep their pieholes shut, NEVER preach or lecture to men, so why don’t you follow the dictates of your OWN “good book” and STFU, hmmm?

    And unlike many of the passages you’re citing from the OLD Testament, those bits about the proper role of women are from the NEW Testament so from the Christian Bible.

    Do I believe that? It doesn’t matter what I believe, does it? I’m not the one citing the Bible as the ultimate authority, YOU are, so it’s up to you accept the authority of those passages that apply to women and obey them. Or is it only the Bible verses that apply to OTHER people that really count?

  13. says

    @ MELISSA :
    You are just another “one book creed” advocate.
    There are many others who would challenge you with their one books; the Koran,
    Book of Mormon, Dianetics,the Brothers Grimm.
    Any chance of you ever thinking for yourself or are you doomed to actually accept what a desert nomad wrote three thousand years ago because he didn’t like the Greeks and their culture of sleeping with men……or else he was hearing voices.

    Any chance of you ever being an individual with an active brain actually analysing what you have been force fed ?
    No, I guess not.
    and why are you bible thumpers so obsessed with sex ? What about the meek inheriting the earth or the martha story or the loving the prostitutes story.
    Why do you always quote the sex sex sex parts ??????

  14. says

    @ Melissa :

    “there’s no debating the bible….”
    what does that mean ?
    it is only a series of words written thousands of years ago by a man, a nomad.
    Maybe he was hearing voices or just hated the Greeks…..and so was obsessed with sex between men. whatever.
    But to suggest that the bible was written by god is absurd. he does not have hands , or use ink, or knowHhebrew/Aramaic.greek……and probably can’t spell in any language.
    And why would he be as obsessed as you and the nomad are about where we put our *ricks ? why would that even interest him ?
    of course it’s debatable….ask any Buddhist, Atheist, Islamic, Hindu…..
    not debatable ? maybe in your closed mind it’s not but it is everywhere else.

  15. PAUL B. says

    Oh JackTwist…that was just too good ! And so easy. You ripped her a new one…and hardly had to open your eyes this morning to do it.
    They make themselves such easy targets, and you took aim. Thank you for taking the time to address this fool…I would have done it myself but I had to make gay love to my husband before the kids got back from church…yuck, yuck!

  16. Diogenes Arktos says

    Kudos to this Christian Church pastor!

    There was a similar email passed around gay circles a decade or two ago – but it was based on anti-miscegination rhetoric. One of the talking points – believe it or not – was that mixed-race marriages would be sterile.

    I do understand the temptation to paint with a broad brush institutional religions. On the other hand, this liberal Episcopalian has found all of the serious social activists I know are part of a religious tradition. (Even if that means being embarrassed by the organization’s leadership.)

  17. rhino79 says

    God does not exist.
    Jesus was not the son of God, since God does not exist.
    There is no heaven. There is no hell.
    There is no immortal soul. There is no afterlife.
    When we die, consciousness is extinguished.
    When we die, our bodies decompose and are reabsorbed by nature.

  18. anon says

    At least with Catholics and Mormons, the lack of biblical literalism and the ability to change theology gives them a future “out” on gay rights. Catholics, knowing that the old and new testaments were cobbled together very haphazardly, always relied on the catechism to be the word of the church, subject to updates through “divine revelation”. The Mormons were ruled by con men that changed their minds on theology every other Tuesday, and kept that tradition alive just in case. Evangelicals don’t have an “out” and risk marginalization in the coming years.

  19. Diogenes Arktos says

    @Anon: I’m not as optimistic as you are about Rome. In addition to theology, there’s their philosophy. Rather than looking at their philosophy as a unified explanation of current practice, they see it as eternally valid. Hence, the status of homosexuality cannot change. Right-wing Catholics beleive that The Church was right in condemning Galileo. The spin is that it wasn’t his science that was condemned, but his philosophical errors. Can we say rewriting history?

    I’m a bit more optimistic about a “Mormon conversion” about gays parallel to the one about blacks. LDS is notorious for changing its beliefs and history. They let a number of years elapse so that a certain belief more or less disappears from common consciousness and can be replaced by another without it appearing that their unchanging, infallible organization has changed.

  20. Adri says

    It says that even in the last days the very elect will be deceived. This must be what it meant if a pastor can actually support homosexuality. The Bible is clear the action of homosexuality is a sin. We are not to hate the sinner, but we are to hate the sin. Our church doors are open for everyone to enter in but we cannot keep our sins. We all have to repent, turn from sin if we truly accept Jesus as Saviour. That means lying, sexual relations outside of marriage, stealing for some,other things and yes, homosexual bahaviour would have to stop. Even Jesus said to the man he healed “go and sin no more”.
    Standing for what the Bible and God said is not popular but it is the right thing to do. When Jesus was crucified the popular vote was to kill him, the popular vote is not always the right one.
    When a nation supports sin, it comes under judgement.

  21. jkl3321 says

    I don’t like Palin’s “views” – except for the one she has of Russia. But I think this hurt a lot of people. It went over the line. Maher: “We need the word “retarded.” This word, and especially the joke Maher reinforces, has set the hard work of parents of mentally challenged, ridiculed people back. What will he argue next, the use of the word f@GG؆†? Ann Coulter likes to use it, and I’d bet she’s in line with Maher’s opinion. He does, by the way, push her book on his show, and they did date years ago (YES, they did.)

  22. Mark Rigoglioso says

    The problem with Phil Snider’s argument, all previous arguments notwithstanding, is that the Bible promotes gender, racial and economic harmony in the world, regardless of what some people argued in the past. Read Galatians 3:24 – 29. This section culminates all the teachings of the Prophets and Jesus regarding social justice. Promoting gender, racial and equal economic opportunity are all hallmarks of Christians and God’s true people.

    Homosexuality is entirely different and is inherently disordered and destructive both to the individual and to society. The argument is correct for homosexuality. Wake up; turn your life over to Jesus for the TRANSFORMATION of your soul and deliverance from the snares of the devil, so that you can accept the truth. Otherwise, you are doomed to destruction.

  23. Mark Rigoglioso says

    A troubling result of calling homosexuality a right and trying to force it legally upon society, is that both religious rights and free speech rights, as valued by Americans from our founding, with be unavoidably weakened, since free speech allows us to proclaim the religious truth about homosexuality and lesbianism. There is no middle ground, all delusions aside.

    A sad and disturbing ‘unexpected consequence’ of such foolishness will actually be to embolden militant Muslims, whose religion is based on the Koran, a book that opens with a wicked diatribe against Jews and Christians. If you want ‘gay’ rights, you will end up with tyranny, persecution, torture, slavery and the destruction of every other value you hold dear. The very people who want to bring it to you already reside in this country, so it is up to you and me: Accept Jesus, or receive the hell you have been running toward for so long now.

  24. Mark Rigoglioso says

    Anyone who thinks the nightmares being played out in Iran, Egypt, Syria and Afghanistan cannot happen here in the US, have not read the Bible, the premier book of world history. A bitter prelude took place on September 11, 2001, if you recall.

    The liberal elites of ancient Israel held the same arrogance against the prophets in their day, to their horrific doom, twice. Our moral choices have grave consequences…knock, knock, anyone home?

    Our loyalty to God and His Commandments carry both blessings and curses if disrespected, and this applies to YOU as well, whether you want to face it or not.

    Those who do not heed history are doomed to repeat it.

  25. Gióniver says

    It is not correct to use the writings of an ancient people who lived 3 or 5000 years, to condemn and abuse of LGBT and not give them equal rights.

    The Bible also says that you can have slaves (Leviticus 25:44-46), which have to be submissive to their cruel masters (1 Peter 2:18-19), because if they are not blaspheme God (1 Timothy 6 1), and can hit (Luke 12:47), if the master kills his slave, with long agony, not pay for it because he owned that human being (Exodus 21:20-21), a slave not have authority over her family (Exodus 21:2-3, Deuteronomy 15:12-18), will be slaves all their lives, except the hebrews.

    The Bible also says that the Israelites may violate other peoples virgins after killing all their fathers, mothers, brothers and neighbors (Number 31:17-18; 21:7,10-12 Judges, Deuteronomy 21: 11-14), says that women are more unclean (Leviticus 12:1-2,5), and can not speak in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35, 1 Timothy 2:11-15), kill them if are not virgins, but if the husband murderer, just lied to get out of it causing their death, only you’ll be fine with money (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

    But the bible surprised by things that do not say she speaks literal, direct and clear, about not eating shellfish, because it is an abomination, but does not prohibit sex with children and girls.

    And then they panic and refuses to make the world a more equitable (equal) in human rights issues. Upon discovering this mundane and harmful 1% of the Bible, not hiso to stop believing in God, or in the other 99% remaining. Well, on the contrary, I am free, I have no fear and I really love God; simply discard what is not of Him.

    Google translation of Spanish

  26. Diogenes Arktos says

    @Mark Rigoglioso: “[T]he Bible promotes gender, racial and economic harmony in the world, regardless of what some people argued in the past.”

    Seriously, Mark, you need to get a grip on world history – especially religious history. You need especially to get a grip on what various Christian churches are teaching today. The idea of harmony you give above is an incredibly recent interpretation. Many Christians would disown your views as being Christian because they do not accept “regardless of what some people argues in the past”: These Christians believe the Christian faith has been unchanged since the Apostles (or at least the Reformation). Some Christians today believe women’s suffrage is unbiblical. Some Christians still believe that blacks are really second-class citizens, because Genesis says so. Some Christians believe the Bible demands laissez-faire free-market capitalism. If you are willing to open up Christianity to the harmony above, to have consistency and integrity of your liberal reading of the Bible, you must needs open up Christianity to LGBT folk. You need to heed history.

  27. Philip Chandler says

    @KISSYFUR — There you go again. I have met and dealt with all types of person in my life, but the types for which I express the deepest, most profound contempt are those religious crackpots who appear to believe that they, and they alone, have a corner on morality. I have had Leviticus shoved down my throat to such an extent that, many years ago, I vowed never, ever to enter any church or other house of organized religious worship ever again. Bigotry is bigotry, regardless of the biblical basis for that bigotry — and you express it in spades.

    I consider organized religion to be the most socially destructive and useless endeavor in human history, and want absolutely nothing to do with it. Religion has been used as a bludgeon to craft law and public policy at the expense of those who are not religious, and it has been used to justify the mace of government coercion since time immemorial. It is people like you who were responsible for prolonging the institution of slavery, for embracing the “separate but equal” doctrine, for denying women the right to vote, for denying women full equality with men, for denying interracial couples the right to marry, and more recently for denying gay persons not just the right to marry, but also the right to be treated on equal terms with heterosexuals in the armed forces (thankfully, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” has finally been repealed).

    Fortunately the tide is turning. Six states and the District of Columbia now permit gay marriage. Three more states will consider legalization of gay marriage next month. Proposition 8 in California was struck down by both a federal district judge and a panel of the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (the case is now pending before the US Supreme Court, where I believe that we have the votes to sustain the holdings of the lower courts). The polls indicate a strong likelihood of the states of Maine and Washington approving gay marriage next month.

    Internationally, South Africa, Canada, Spain, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Argentina, Netherlands, Portugal, and several South American sub-jurisdictions have legalized gay marriage since 2001. France is poised to become the latest nation to legalize full gay marriage. Furthermore, research shows that those who support gay marriage are better educated than those who oppose gay marriage, and that younger people overwhelmingly approve of gay marriage (and their attitude does NOT change as they grow older).

    What this means is that the majority of opponents of gay marriage will eventually die, and younger people will take their place with more enlightened attitudes. Soon enough, gay marriage will become legal throughout the United States.

    Selective invocation of Leviticus always amuses me. Do you wear clothing made of two different fabrics? Do you refuse to stone people to death for adultery? Do you eat shellfish? Do you work on Sundays? If you have answered “yes” to any of these questions, you have disobeyed what I take it you believe to be the direct and inerrant word of God. This selective invocation would be amusing were its consequences not so ugly and demeaning to a group of people who have it hard enough as matters stand, without having to worry about religious crackpots attacking them.

    It is my sincere hope that the day will come when you look back on your actions in this regard — and hang your head in shame!

    PHILIP CHANDLER

  28. Philip Chandler says

    RIGOGLIOSO writes: “A sad and disturbing ‘unexpected consequence’ of such foolishness will actually be to embolden militant Muslims, whose religion is based on the Koran, a book that opens with a wicked diatribe against Jews and Christians.”

    ********
    RESPONSE
    ********

    This is a particularly disgusting, sneaky form of attack. You are effectively blaming gay Americans for the attitudes of another religion, with the unstated implication that attacks on America (such as 9/11, which I survived) should be blamed on gay Americans.

    This is utterly revolting, and I am amazed by two things: 1) Why do you wish to engage in naked appeasement of adherents of another religion, when that religion infused those who attacked us on 9/11 and on other occasions? and 2) Why should I give a fiddler’s what members of another religion believe?

    We are not responsible for the deluded and hateful attitudes and actions of other people, and your attempt to hijack the horrors of what occurred on the above occasions is so low as to be completely beyond the pale.

    PHILIP CHANDLER

  29. Philip Chandler says

    RIGOGLIOSO writes: “A sad and disturbing ‘unexpected consequence’ of such foolishness will actually be to embolden militant Muslims, whose religion is based on the Koran, a book that opens with a wicked diatribe against Jews and Christians.”

    ********
    RESPONSE
    ********

    This is a particularly disgusting, sneaky form of attack. You are effectively blaming gay Americans for the attitudes of another religion, with the unstated implication that attacks on America (such as 9/11, which I survived) should be blamed on gay Americans.

    This is utterly revolting, and I am amazed by two things: 1) Why do you wish to engage in naked appeasement of adherents of another religion, when that religion infused those who attacked us on 9/11 and on other occasions? and 2) Why should I give a fiddler’s what members of another religion believe?

    We are not responsible for the deluded and hateful attitudes and actions of other people, and your attempt to hijack the horrors of what occurred on the above occasions is so low as to be completely beyond the pale.

    PHILIP CHANDLER

  30. Philip Chandler says

    RIGOGLIOSO writes: “A sad and disturbing ‘unexpected consequence’ of such foolishness will actually be to embolden militant Muslims, whose religion is based on the Koran, a book that opens with a wicked diatribe against Jews and Christians.”

    ********
    RESPONSE
    ********

    This is a particularly disgusting, sneaky form of attack. You are effectively blaming gay Americans for the attitudes of another religion, with the unstated implication that attacks on America (such as 9/11, which I survived) should be blamed on gay Americans.

    This is utterly revolting, and I am amazed by two things: 1) Why do you wish to engage in naked appeasement of adherents of another religion, when that religion infused those who attacked us on 9/11 and on other occasions? and 2) Why should I give a fiddler’s what members of another religion believe?

    We are not responsible for the deluded and hateful attitudes and actions of other people, and your attempt to hijack the horrors of what occurred on the above occasions is so low as to be completely beyond the pale.

    PHILIP CHANDLER

  31. Philip Chandler says

    RIGOGLIOSO writes: “A sad and disturbing ‘unexpected consequence’ of such foolishness will actually be to embolden militant Muslims, whose religion is based on the Koran, a book that opens with a wicked diatribe against Jews and Christians.”

    ********
    RESPONSE
    ********

    This is a particularly disgusting, sneaky form of attack. You are effectively blaming gay Americans for the attitudes of another religion, with the unstated implication that attacks on America (such as 9/11, which I survived) should be blamed on gay Americans.

    This is utterly revolting, and I am amazed by two things: 1) Why do you wish to engage in naked appeasement of adherents of another religion, when that religion infused those who attacked us on 9/11 and on other occasions? and 2) Why should I give a fiddler’s what members of another religion believe?

    We are not responsible for the deluded and hateful attitudes and actions of other people, and your attempt to hijack the horrors of what occurred on the above occasions is so low as to be completely beyond the pale.

    PHILIP CHANDLER

  32. allen lindley says

    Rigoloso writes “A troubling result of calling homosexuality a right and trying to force it legally upon society, is that both religious rights and free speech rights, as valued by Americans from our founding, with be unavoidably weakened, since free speech allows us to proclaim the religious truth about homosexuality and lesbianism. There is no middle ground, all delusions aside.”

    You state our rights of free speech and religion will be weakened. But how do you not see the same on the other side. If you take away ones right to be gay because it goes against your reliegion your taking their right of relgious freedom and speech away and forcing your beliefs upon everyone else. This was apparent in our own countrys history. We called it a monarchy and as a country rebelled against english rule. in those times you followed the reliegion of the king and queen or you we treated harshly. And yet we have people trying to the same now. We are supposed to live by your beliefs or be treated harshly and unfairly if we don’t.

  33. says

    What “God” is blessing this rhetoric? Not the true God, for sure. People like to believe God is like them, and holds their perverted values. He does not. If the bible-illiterate would stop putting word in God’s mouth, then they would see the truth of what God actually says about homosexuality.

    Useful idiots like this “preacher” abound, but his lies don’t lessen the truth that homosexuality is STILL perversion, that God defines marriage and sexuality, and that the real discrimination comes from the secular, leftwing,homsxl. movement, who must strong arm conscientious Christians into submission to their degenerate lives. Repentance has never been more appropriate.

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