1. Mary says

    Why doesn’t she just teach in a public school? If you’re living in a way that violates your religious beliefs, you can’t get annoyed when a religious organization doesn’t want to employ you. Actions have consequences. The transition to a pro-gay culture is going to involve situations like this. You all know what my advice will be. It’s best to leave religious schools alone, if only for pragmatic reasons. This is not the same as a florist or catering hall refusing to serve a gay couple getting married. The school has an explicitly religious purpose – a flower shop or catering hall doesn’t. Some fights should be avoided because they aren’t worth the PR cost. Gay rights is currently a popular cause – and becoming more popular over time. But as with all social causes, it will lose steam eventually. When the dust settles we don’t want to be left with a population that views gays as pushy and anti-religious. Gays should avoid the fate of the feminist movement, which squandered much of the good will it started out with in the 1960’s.

    That said, I do realize that this woman just lost her mother. I feel for her on this score.

  2. ratbastard says

    Don’t work for an organization that publicly and actively condemns homosexuals, and includes morals contract clauses. The RC Church is now engaging in a gay witch hunt, primarily due to the sex abuse scandals, and the damage it’s caused their reputation and $ it’s costed from civil payouts to insurance premiums.

    I feel bad for this woman, and sorry for the lost of her mom.

  3. BobN says

    The feminist movement didn’t lose goodwill. The right made crushing it a priority and has spent tens of millions demonizing it.

    “we don’t want to be left with a population that views gays as pushy and anti-religious.”

    Right, we’re just supposed to let the “Christians” stay pushy and anti-gay.

    How ’bout a compromise. You can fire us when our relationships are revealed in the obituaries of third parties and we can fire you for the same sort of thing. Have a relative buried in a Catholic church? Sorry, you’re dismissed. I don’t like Catholics, so you’re out of here.

    Now, I wouldn’t support eliminating anti-discrimination law, but if you want that sort of world, get the laws changed, Mary.

  4. Caliban says

    Still, I’d like to cvnt-punt the busy-body who doesn’t have anything better to do than pore through obituaries for people to “out.” She must be SO proud of herself!

  5. Steve says

    They are a school and not a church. They have absolutely no right to force their religious beliefs on their employees. Just like any other employer doesn’t have that right.

  6. says

    However this pans out legally (city non-discrimination ordinance vs. employee “moral values” agreement; does the school get public money?) it speaks to how disgracefully mean-spirited the “concerned parent” was and how disgracefully out of touch the Catholic Diocese is from real people and ordinary Catholics that they would cherry-pick a supportive family relationship in an obituary to express their anti-gay judgments. Ugly stuff.

    Given that most of the employees certainly break some “diocesan rules” in their personal lives, and given the scandals plaguing the Church, the targeting of Carla Hale because she had the gall to acknowledge her partner in relation to a death in the family sums up why the Catholic Church is going to isolate itself from the world and become increasingly irrelevant to decent people. We know who the bully is here, and it sure isn’t Carla Hale.

  7. Mary says

    Steven, they are a school RUN by a religious institution that has a religious purpose. This is how they differ from public schools. This is also one reason why people send their children to religous schools and not public ones. What you’re advocating is a direct attack upon parents’ right to pass on their religious faith to their children. The Supreme Court ruled that parents have a right to send their children to a private/religious school. This right becomes meaningless if the state can nullify the church’s religious teachings by stigmatizing the church’s beliefs as “discrimination.” Again, people who don’t like the values of the church and its school are free to go to other churches/schools.

    Ernie, I understand your position, but to say that the church shouldn’t enforce its rules against same-sex relationships because many of its members commit other sins isn’t very logical. Not all sins are evident. Not all involve behavior that is overt and can influence others. And gay relationships involve a choice to engage in on-going behavior. They aren’t like cursing, or skipping church – things that most people would be expected to do every so often because of human nature. Churches have to draw the line somewhere – otherwise there’s no point to them being in business. And as always, they have to do what they believe to be the will of God. People’s feelings are secondary – and should be.

    BobN, I remember the 1970’s clearly. Feminism lost steam long before the Christian Right was formed. And I wasn’t saying that Christian should be allowed to remain pushy and anti-gay. But they are already changing enough to accomodate gay rights and gay marriage in the civil realm. However, gays need to show that they understand many will never accept gay relationships as moral. Such people should be left alone to have their churches and schools. No gay person is forced to belong to an anti-gay church or attend or work at an anti-gay school.

  8. Thomas says

    It will be interesting to see if a legal distinction can be made between being fired for being gay and being fired for a homosexual spousal relationship. It would be consistent with Church teaching to fire for the latter (which is “acting” on being gay) versus the former (which is intrinsically disordered but not itself a sin), and the city ordinance covers orientation and not conduct. It’s kind of scary to think this might become a pretty important legal dividing line–i.e. that you can be discriminated against for being gay married, but not for being gay.

  9. john patrick says

    I wish Carla well in her fight to get her job back. Win or lose, I am glad that she finds the strength to bring to light the pathetic attack on loving relationships that so many Catholic officials seem to think are central to their doctrines. I am glad she has the support of many people who have known her through the years and that she has a partner to support her. I also hope that Carla and her partner can find the time and the space to properly grieve her mother’s death. They need that.

    And I have nothing but disgust for the busy-body tattle-tale who used Carla’s mother’s obituary to get her fired. What a petty, small minded, vindictive person s/he must be.

  10. Joan says

    THESE SAME PEOPLE who are revolting, condemn the church for a small handful of gay pedophile priests BUT LOVE Michael Jackson! LIBERAL HYPOCRITES! I do NOT like this article because it does NOT reflect what GOD likes, how GOD feels and whatGOD teaches us in His word! When people live their life on what THEY think and feel, they are practicing HUMANISM. And humanism is a fallible false religion. Romans 12:2 “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” There are some things we are NOT supposed to do. Check yourself, on every little thing we are weighed and measured. I am not the one that is going to sugar coat it for you because I WANT you to go to heaven. Thems there’s the facts. Heaven or hell, right and wrong, your choices… You are standing at the edge of the fiery pit looking down into the vast inferno of engulfing flames. Do you really need a push? You can not call yourself a Christian or a Catholic if you fight against God, His word and wishes! Get out the Church you fake, false, preachers of iniquity you are doing the devil’s work, trying to make us all look bad! (“If you don’t agree with me you can take your devil’s doctrine right down to hell with you, satan’s sucker!”) Yeah, I said you idolize Michael Jackson but condemn the church fool! If you take this personally maybe you should because YOU are responsible to a very personal God! You can not compromise on Holiness. You can NOT represent the Holy Church with blatant sin. It is mockery and sinful! Is this what you are force feeding your children, mixed messages? Are you really trying to change the Church to fit your sinful standards? Get these people help, counseling, hormone therapy, an exorcism, a prayer group. But don’t parade it around the church acting like it is okay! We are talking about the Church administration and not your personal lives…

  11. Mary says

    This “Joan” sounds to me like someone trying to make religious people sound nasty. Would a truly religious person come onto a gay website and write the kind of things she wrote?

  12. ratbastard says


    Radical far left lunatic fringe Marxist feminist ruined the movement. It didn’t help they were [are] by and large bonafide male hating lesbians at the leadership level. Lunatic fringe, far left Marxist male hating lesbians. Oh yeah, laugh all you want, but they exist, and they’ve cause a lot of problems for the legitimacy of the movement, and spread as much hate as the worse far right fascist.

  13. ratbastard says

    Maybe the ‘progressive’ movement in this country can now take up the problems created by our multi-generational War on Boys [really, a war on males]. Maybe there can now be affirmative action and tax credits for male teachers, since there is a powerful need for more male teachers and fewer female.

  14. leprechaunvict says

    How do Catholic schools work in the US? Do they get any funding whatsoever from their State or Local governments? If so, no dice, they have to re-instate her and pay her damages. Unless they are 100% funded by private tuition charges the school doesn’t have a leg to stand on. That’s why in Canada Catholic schools were forced by the courts to allow gay teachers and Gay/Straight student alliance clubs and gay Prom dates- because some of their budgets are what they take from government funds.

  15. Mary says

    There is a basic logic to what you say, Leprechaunvict. But I’m not sure how well this will go over politically with people who send their kids to Catholic schools. I don’t know if such schools pay taxes or they are tax-exempt because they are run by the church. What about parents who get a tuition tax credit and use it to send their kid to a religious school? Is this construed as public money? If we find religious schools being forced to shut down because they can’t afford the taxes there will be hostility directed against gay people. It would be a shame to see the progress of the last 3 years slowed down. Give religious people a chance to accept gay equality. Make it as painless as possible for them. It’s in your best interest to neutralize opponents.

    I’ll repeat what I once said would be the headline of a NOM pamphlet: “It started with two men marrying each other. It ended with your child’s Catholic school being boarded shut.”

  16. ET says

    @Thomas, if we want to get technical, there is no “spousal arrangement” because in Ohio there is no gay marriage. And even more technical–even if there was, how is anyone to know whether or not she and her partner acted on their sexual desires?

    The principal’s response is every bit as disgusting and offensive as her firing in the first place.

  17. Mark says

    This woman was teaching her beliefs to students knowing full well her teaching was not in conformance with the teaching of Jesus. Yet, she somehow thought that to be acceptable, and she really thinks she should keep her job? Scary thoughts.

  18. sandy says

    Mark, She wasn’t teaching her beliefs. For 19 years she kept her private life… private.
    For 19 years, her homosexual lifestyle did NOT affect the quality of education or “Catholic-ness” of education her students received. Catholic schools don’t offer tenure. She could have been fired for the smallest of transgressions at any time.
    The saying is, “love the sinner, hate the sin.” That’s how the Catholic church draws a distinction between being gay and living a homosexual lifestyle. They aren’t discrimination against her because she’s gay, they fired her for acknowledging a long term, loving, committed relationship with another woman. How very Christian of them. :-(

  19. tami says

    Ha, the catholic priests can molest young boys for years and it’s covered up but this lady gets fired for being gay???? What would you call the priests that like BOYS>>>>GAY MOLESTERS!!!!??????

  20. LA says

    This is pathetic!!!!! After 19 years, seriously? The Catholic faith is the most twisted, hypocritical thing on earth! For a religion that doesn’t allow men and women to get married in order to be a priest or nun, this is ridiculous!!!!!

  21. Chris Darrow says

    Hi all, I am pan sexual so I am not anti gay at all, however religious institutions have the right under the constitution to require that it’s employees are not living an active gay lifestyle.

    Do you people recall the first amendment? It’s not just for the protection of the press. People seem to forget that. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

    The courts have long held that churches can bar homosexuals from working for them. This is not new. Local discrimination ordinances does not apply as it is a religious organization.

    Also Catholic Schools are entirely paid for via private money via tuition and money from the Diocese. No tax money is involved. The same “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” applies there. Churches can not receive money from the government.

    leprechaunvict: This is the USA not Canada. Canada law does not apply.

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