Gay Rights After SCOTUS: What If There’s No ‘Standing’ or ‘Jurisdiction’?

LlinfoAs Lambda Legal's handy infographic explains, there are multiple avenues the Court could take. One path holds that despite all the time and effort we've spent bringing these cases to the Supreme Court, these cases don't belong there. And because the pro-equality side won in the courts below, such decisions would give us a good result. In Prop 8, Judge Walker's decision would stand and the world's fifth largest economy (California) would be the next equality state. In the DOMA case, the Second Circuit decision declaring DOMA unconstitutional would stand and DOMA would be unconstitutional in some jurisdictions. Notably, there are several other DOMA cases — Golinski in California, Gill in Massachusetts, and Pedersen in Connecticut — which could take over the process, but that would take us into the Court's next term.

Those results would be unsatisfying even though it allows California's gay couples to marry and further damages the DOMA brand. 

First, it would wipe out the Ninth Circuit's decision in Perry v. Brown. If you recall, that decision held that Prop 8 was unconstitutional not on the broad grounds that gay marriage bans violate equal protection or due process, but because California could not take away marriage rights already granted. That decision has its own problems, but it was, at a minimum, the first federal appellate court that declared a ban on marriage equality unconstitutional. A standing holding by the Supreme Court would hold that the Perry case should not have been before the Ninth Circuit at all, thus erasing that decision and its precedential value.

Second, it would create an absurd situation where DOMA is unconstitutional in the First and Second Circuits — and possibly soon the Ninth Circuit — and legal everywhere else. Administration of that result would be exceedingly hard: If you lived and married in New York, you get federal benefits and the IRS, immigration authorities, and others would treat you as married. If you lived down the highway in Maryland, you can get married, but since you're in the Fourth Circuit, where DOMA is still viable, you're strangers in the eyes of the federal government.

But a standing decision in the Prop 8 case is likely the best result we can realistically espect. The Court is unlikely to reach a sweeping decision legalizing marriage equality everywhere. The Court is also not likely to adopt the President's so-called 8 State Solution, which would invalidate marriage bans in those 8 states that have civil union laws that are identical to marriage, but without the name. We've discussed the logical problem with that argument before. Plus, I am not confident that this otherwise conservative Court will be able to cobble together 5 votes for anything other than the most narrow decision on an issue that is so toxic to some of them.

And thats ok. If a case is not properly before a court, that court has to dismiss it. Otherwise, we'd be inundated with frivolous and ridiculous lawsuits. It means that our quest for a national right to marry will continue going from state to state and would require another case to reach the Supreme Court (if we choose to go that route again), but it may not be such a bad thing to continue to drive our momentum forward in the states and give the federal courts some time to catch up.

***

Follow me on Twitter: @ariezrawaldman

Ari Ezra Waldman is the Associate Director of the Institute for Information Law and Policy and a professor at New York Law School and is concurrently getting his PhD at Columbia University in New York City. He is a 2002 graduate of Harvard College and a 2005 graduate of Harvard Law School. Ari writes weekly posts on law and various LGBT issues.

Comments

  1. DC Insider says

    As usual excellent post. I agree that Prop 8 is likely bounced on standing, though I fear DOMA may also get bounced on standing. I do hold out hope for DOMA being found unconstitutional by a 5-4 vote, but I really don’t know how the court gets around standing of BLAG. I just don’t get how BLAG gets standing.

  2. Lymis says

    Wouldn’t a standing ruling on Perry also leave Walker’s ruling in place at the district court level, but still as a valid federal decision, one that (along with the trial record) could be cited in similar cases around the country?

    And, what about the aspect of that ruling that states that marriage IS a fundamental right?

  3. Gerry says

    Here are my thoughts, and we’ll see if I’m right in a few days…
    1. I don’t think the court will rule “no standing”. That would be extremely lame to wait until the very last minute to tell everyone that they decided to do nothing. Talk about drama queens.
    2. I think the ruling will come down on Wednesday, the 26th. Why, because that would be 10 years to the day that Lawrence v. Texas was decided. Also, by coincidence did you know the oral arguments for the Prop 8 case were heard on March 26th – which by the way was the same day that oral arguments for Lawrence were heard? Hummmmm….
    3. I believe the court will issue a 50 state ruling in favor of marriage equality. They know it’s only a matter of time, and btw it is the right thing to do. It’s obvious that gay people are being discriminated against and it’s obvious there isn’t a good reason for it, other than religious doctrine that btw isn’t suppose to count.
    4. Kennedy isn’t getting any younger and this would solidify his place in history as authoring the trilogy of gay rights cases.
    5. Roberts is going to be on the court a long time… if they don’t rule for equality, this case is just going to boomerang back in some way, shape or form.

  4. Courtney s says

    What if you were married in Connecticut? Is that part of the 9th circuit? My partner is stuck in Brazil until this whole DOMA and immigration stuff is worked out.

  5. RVJ says

    Disappointing to see you join all the mainstream pundits, who can’t even fathom the possibility that SCOTUS might actually decide these cases based on the law instead of politics. Perry will be at least 6-3, again finding that marriage is a fundamental individual right, and that sexual orientation gets heightened scrutiny. Windsor will be at least 8-1. There will be 6 votes on the basis of heightened scrutiny, and at least 5 on the basis of federalism, with several concurring in part. Roberts — not Kennedy — will write both opinions. He will omit Kennedy’s libertarian views and usual analysis of developments in international law. Instead, will write a page and a half explaining the difference between civil marriage and religious marriage, and why churches won’t be affected. Scalia’s dissent will be blathering, but it will be more focused on granting standing than gay bashing (and many scholars will muse about how he was correct).

  6. Mark says

    Ari, wouldn’t a ruling on DOMA on standing issues similarly wipe out the 1st and 2nd Circuit appeals court rulings? If the executive (and the BLAG) lacked standing to appeal the 2nd Circuit ruling to the Supreme Court, why would they have had standing to appeal the district court ruling to the 2nd Circuit? Or to appeal the Gill district court ruling to the First Circuit?

    I realize that Adam Winkler has floated this outcome as possible, but from the standpoint of the Court it would seem utter chaos (which might be what Scalia et al want).

  7. Gerry says

    @RVJ – I agree with most of what you said with the exception of who will write the opinions. I believe Kennedy will write the marriage equality decision… that will be a nod to his authorship of Romer and Lawrence.

    Even though the decisions are based in law, Judges are human, which is why I believe the decision will come down on the 26th and Kennedy will write it.

    In any event, like I stated earlier, if they were going to rule no standing, that would have come earlier. Waiting until the last possible moment to announce in a grand manner that they aren’t doing anything is just ridiculous.

  8. Gerry says

    One other thing, we don’t have reporting of the news anymore – it is now marketing of the news. You’ve got to build a suspense filled narrative to sell ad space. It’s just ridiculous.

  9. Howard says

    @Gerry. Re: #5 & #3, I agree Roberts is going to be on the court a very long time, but this is all the more reason why he will kick the can down the road, and deal with the substance of this issue at a later date.

  10. Anthony says

    SCOTUS will deny Prop 8 on standing, and strike down DOMA. In the DOMA case if we can get 5 votes for equal protection then it will be a very good result and we can use that as precedent going forward.

  11. Gerry says

    @Howard – Roberts may be on the court a long time, but Kennedy won’t. Kennedy wrote Romer and Lawrence, and this completes the trilogy. Since the court knows that marriage equality is the right thing to do, they are going to seize the moment and just do it. I believe also the 10 year anniversary of Lawrence just makes it too irresistible.

  12. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  13. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  14. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  15. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  16. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  17. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  18. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  19. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  20. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  21. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  22. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  23. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

  24. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

  25. ANONTDH says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  26. RVJ says

    @Gerry. I would love for Kennedy to write the decisions. I believe that Lawrence was beautifully written and completely correct. But Roberts has the prerogative of writing them if he wants to exercise the authority, and I think he will want to, because none of the other conservatives share Kennedy’s libertarian views. From Roberts we will get a straight forward equal protection analysis – not grand proclamations of individual autonomy (that bolster abortion rights). We shall see.

  27. says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  28. says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  29. Michael Bedwell says

    Whatever happens, we mustn’t forget or forgive that the Obama Administration inexplicably and reprehensibly refused the pleas of Boies and Olson to support their position that ANY ban on marriage equality in ANY state is unconstitutional. What the Administration said instead shocked and confused Justices both from the Left and Right. Quote, emphasis mine:

    JUSTICE GINSBURG TO OBAMA SOLICITOR GENERAL VERRILLI: “So a State that has made considerable progress [such as California] has to go all the way, but at least the Government’s position is, if it has…done absolutely nothing at all, then…IT CAN DO AS IT WILL.”

    CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS TO VERRILLI: “You’re saying it’s got to happen right now in California, but YOU DON’T EVEN HAVE A POSITION ABOUT WHETHER IT’S REQUIRED IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.”

    OBAMA SOLICITOR GENERAL VERRILLI: “WE ARE NOT TAKING THE POSITION THAT [MARRIAGE EQUALITY] IS REQUIRED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. We think that THAT OUGHT TO BE LEFT OPEN FOR A FUTURE ADJUDICATION IN OTHER STATES that don’t have the situation California has.”

  30. candide001 says

    With France and England in the bag, how much longer can the US drag its feet on ending this discrimination against lgbts? or is the court going to wait until Saudi Arabia decides ssm is the right thing to do before stepping in?

  31. candide001 says

    With France and England in the bag, how much longer can the US drag its feet on ending this discrimination against lgbts? or is the court going to wait until Saudi Arabia decides ssm is the right thing to do before stepping in?

  32. says

    WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    Timothy 1:10
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Leviticus 18:21-23 (in Context) Leviticus 18 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Leviticus 20:12-14 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Revelation 22:15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:14-16 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “No woman of Isra’el is to engage in ritual prostitution, and no man of Isra’el is to engage in ritual homosexual prostitution.
Deuteronomy 23:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

    Deuteronomy 23:19 Nothing earned through heterosexual or homosexual prostitution is to be brought into the house of Adonai your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to Adonai your God.
Deuteronomy 23:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 23 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  33. Howard says

    @ Gerry, my heart wants you to be right, but my gut is sending me a different message.

  34. Bob Jenkins says

    Well whats this Gay Deal? I still call them Homo’s short for Homosexual or my new name is Gender guesser. Tough. now you can delete this

  35. Bill says

    There’s one catch that Ari didn’t discuss. Judge Walker was (he is now retired) a district judge in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California. For historical reasons, California is in two districts.

    If Judge Walker’s ruling applies only in his jurisdiction (e.g., if the appeal is thrown out because of standing), we could end up with a situation in which Proposition Eight is unconstitutional in Northern California but not Southern California. That’s of course a rather bizarre outcome that people would generally find unacceptable, so the question is how this would be resolved.

    With that outcome, I’d imagine NOM or a NOM clone, or maybe a conservative and homophobic local official, would file a lawsuit to have same-sex marriages forbidden in the area covered by the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of California, claiming that Proposition Eight still applies there.

  36. Bob says

    I think what’s missing from this discussion is what the bible says about homosexuality.

    Could any of the commenters please provide some insight?

    Thanks in advance.

  37. Chris says

    @anontdh 1) This isn’t a theocracy. It’s a secular democracy. your religious garbage is irrelevant. 2) The word ‘homosexuality’ is a very new word. Therefore it couldn’t be in the bible. F#ck off.

  38. Addison says

    I don’t give a f*ck about gay marriage because I plan on remaining a single gayboy. Just don’t take away my right to be NUDE in my own backyard!!!

  39. Tiny_Spoons says

    ANONTDH –> I do not believe in your religion. I do not believe in your god. I do not believe in the hollow words from your 2000+ year old book. Take your hate filled retoric masked behind the false pretense of rightousness and go do something helpful for your fellow mankind. That’s what your religion says. From your own book: John 8:7 “Let He who is without Sin cast the First Stone.”

  40. TomTallis says

    As I understand it the division of California into two districts is administrative only because it is such a large state both in population and geographically. Decisions reached in one district always apply to the other.

  41. Lonnie says

    I say let’r rip. Here in less than one hundred years the ultimate judge “GOD ALMIGHTY” will sort it out.

  42. Tim says

    The constitutional issue should include the separation of Church and State. Marriage is a religious union in the eyes of God, no matter what God you believe in. All religions throughout the world believe that homosexuality is an abomination. Therefore the courts must conclude that it is a right of religious beliefs and must maintain the soverance of the religious order. Therefore they cannot rule and must maintain the religious laws and independence by the constitution.

  43. Randy says

    WHAT IF? Good lord, we will know in a few days exactly how the court will rule. All this speculation is nothing more than mental masterbation. Can we just wait until the actual ruling and THEN figure out what it means?

    Good grief — this is just ridiculous, getting all worked up over a possible outcome that may not actually happen. Once the ruling comes out, then we can all look at it and discuss and figure out our next steps.

  44. Boyd says

    Will the Supreme Court be legalizing marriages between mankind and animals, because DOMA will no longer require the marriage of one man and one woman? Would this action also legalize a man or woman having as many wives as they wish at one time? America is just seeing the beginning of our nation’s destruction and fall, because our government put homosexual wants above America’s laws. Why should America change to satisfy a group of people that have shown they have sick and reprobate minds? America’s government won’t change their actions to help our nation, but they will to hurt America more. If the Supreme Court justifies same sex marriages in every state, we will see a greater amount of sexually transmitted diseases spread through America, but without a cure. These same sex marriages want the same sex marriages want the same benefits as a marriage between a man and woman. If this is given unto them, these same benefits will have to be given unto other marriages that was ruled illegal before. What will be like giving marriage benefits unto people that marry their pets or people that marry several women at once? For without DOMA, these actions are legal. Defense Of Marriage Act states that only the marriage between one man and one woman is to be recognized. How could the Supreme Court force any decision on states that have passed their decision making same sex marriage illegal in their state and placing it their constitution? The Supreme Court is not going to change DOMA for one group of people, because if they change DOMA any type marriage is to recognized in America by them. Is this legal and what America wants?

  45. Jaydog says

    Does anybody on here actually know anything about the law or precedent lol? Look, SCOTUS is going to uphold Prop 8 on states’ rights grounds. As Kennedy said from the bench, the states have historically determined for themselves what marriage is, and California has voted on this twice now. Marriages and divorces do not happen in federal courts, they happen in state courts. If anything, judge Walker was the one who did not have standing to even entertain that shame trial he conducted at the trial court level. Oh, and his ruling only applies to the couples who sued, not the whole state, and definitely not the entire district or country. Keep dreaming people.

  46. emjayay says

    Hey how did all that repeated bible stuff stay up? I guess some people don’t get that the founding fathers, a bunch of Enlightenment types, did not intend for the US to be run based on the traditions of illiterate people on the other side of the world thousands of years ago. You know, before science and Aristotelian logic etc.

    Anyway, RVJ, I hope you are right. But I don’t think there’s any way Thomas will not vote with Scalia, and I think there’s no way no matter what the legal arguements are that Scalia will vote Ari’s way. Their thinking is both in St. Thomas Acquinas land, and in not considering anything that has happened in culture since the 1700’s.

  47. eva justino says

    Unfortunately today’s society and the would do not care about God’s commends in the Bible.They will do whatever they want to do.We know that they will pay a very high price for that.But…They do not care our believe in that anyway!

  48. nick says

    I agree with the others, I don’t think both will be “no standing,” it just means they would have to go through 2 more cases like it, so they will want to be decisive about one of them. I think it will be “no standing” on the California case and they will get rid of DOMA. If they affirm DOMA- anything is possible- there will be a downpouring of outrage about it in the media and everywhere else. It’s obvious discrimination even to the ones who support it.

  49. ITSDARKHELLISHOT says

    IF YOU WANT MARRIAGE LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE BE NORMAL THEN YOU GUYS FIGHT SAYING ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO MARRY IF YOUR WITH THE OPPISITE SEX AND ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL FOR OUR CHILDREN TO SEE FAGS WALKING WITH SAME SEX PEOPLE

  50. JOHNNY CHEN says

    Gays are people too.

    Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me! Duteserotomy 1-1

  51. Craig says

    The bible thumpers trolling here need to learn how to use spell check. Their bad spelling and grammar makes their ignorance even more obvious.

  52. Allen Elliott says

    They are following God unconditional love we call God which this world doesn’t even want to know about, the laws of man not withstanding. They do not want to follow reprobate minds, where the wayward minds of this world does.

  53. ty says

    Some of the posts here are suggesting that we are supposed to all start eating p*ssy !! Sounds disgusting!

  54. M.J says

    Christians….you are now going to be the most persecuted group in society. Get ready. It’s now your turn to be in the minority, and now everyone is calling you Christians out.

  55. Tyler says

    Christians are all child rapers.So glad we as a society are finally mocking and bashing Christianity

  56. Fine Pasta Makers says

    “…but it may not be such a bad thing to continue to drive our momentum forward in the states and give the federal courts some time to catch up.”

    And let’s be honest here, also hope that Scalia croaks on a gulletful of strozzagiudici, and that Roberts’ epilepsy kicks in again and forces him off the bench.

    In the pure dreaming category, maybe “Crazy” Ginni Thomas catches Clarence with a black woman (or a white boy) and busts him in his grill.

  57. SI says

    Dear Anontdh
    do you really think your annoying postings are going to stop us? this is a hurricane coming your way. i would have read your posting once, but as most people like you, you blew it. Time for you to mind your own business. No one is coming for you. yet.