1. says

    Why is it always trolls like Limbaugh obsessed about being in a locker room or shower with a gay guy? It never seems to be the hotties I might be tempted to sneak a peek at. No, it’s some hideous creature that I’d pay money NOT to have to see naked (or clothed for that matter). Seriously, has anyone else ever noticed that it’s the ones like Limbaugh who think we’re all out to seduce them? As if.

  2. Taylor says

    It’s fairly obvious Limbaugh has never set foot inside a gym.

    If he would drag his fat ass into one…he would know that straight men shower with gay men…every damn day. And have been since the invention of locker-rooms and communal showers.

    Grow-up Limbaugh…or at least join the 21 Century.

  3. Dastius Krazitauc says

    A caller posed the same question to Michelangelo Signorile on his show. Must have been a ditto-head. I don’t understand the scenario that would have a man and a woman in the same shower. How would that ever even occur?

    If there is such concern about mighty, macho football players having such delicate sensibilities in the shower, why not build them individual showers instead of group showers? The NFL could certainly afford it.

  4. Lucca says

    Because, deep down inside that hydrocodone-riddled interior, underneath all that lard, is a desire to have an orgy in a shower with NFL players.

    It’s Rush’s secret, and he hates himself for it. He wouldn’t be able to control himself, so how can others?

  5. jexer says

    Q: “Is it OK for a guy to be in a shower with women?”
    A: “It should be! But there’s still a few bad apples out there that ruin it for everyone else.”

  6. Bill says

    @ Andy : all cultures have their taboos and that is one of ours. In other cultures, people don’t think bathing or nudity is sexually provocative.

    Maybe at some point, we’ll pick another taboo.

  7. Jim says

    The only really terrifying thing here is the imagery that is conjured up when Rush Limbaugh uses words like Gay, Sex, Naked, Showers… I feel nauseous just hearing him say these words! “My eyes! My eyes! Oh, my eyes!”

  8. rroberts says

    I guess using a public men’s restroom where any kind of guy stands next to you while you handle your junk and he handles his junk just isn’t the same thing because, of course, you are both looking straight ahead at the wall, pretending not to look and pretending it isn’t happening.

  9. FFS says

    The communal bathroom that was shared by all the guys on the same floor of my freshman dorm, in college, was supposed to be men only. I never once walked in there, completely naked except for the towel around my waist, to shower without finding some girl in there, showering or primping in front of the mirrors.

    We all survived. Because 18-year-olds are more mature than gray-faced, fat-assed Republican blowhards.

  10. Jon says

    For those here who say that gay men have showered with straight men for thousands of years, while this is obviously true, the HUGE difference is now we have a gay man who has announced that he is gay. What difference does that make? I huge difference for those who now feel uncomfortable being naked before someone who likes seeing fit guys naked.

    Limbaugh’s issue is with HIM being naked in the shower with them…if anyone actually took the time to listen to what he said, he wasn’t saying that at all. His concern was with those NFL football players, some of whom would feel very exposed and uncomfortable and even violated by being looked at naked.

    There is a big difference between being naked and being clothed. People don’t walk around naked, not only because it can be chilly, but also because they don’t want people looking at them in a sexual manner in such an exposed and vulnerable state.

    And so the comparison between guys and girls showering together, and openly-gay men and straight men showering together, is actually a very fair comparison. Because, psychologically and emotionally, people on the receiving end of being “desired” can have the same response. It is not fair nor right to toss that legitimate concern aside.

  11. Hey Darlin' says

    It’s understandable that not every idiot on the radio would understand the difference between sex and work. THEY shouldn’t be let near a shower full of women since they can’t tell the difference and are confused by others being able to control themselves.

    The scenario doesn’t equate to a gay player not being able to be a professional and conduct himself with professionalism in the locker room. We’re already EVERYWHERE by the way, as much as some would like to think we aren’t, EVERYWHERE!!

  12. Seattle Mike says

    Hey, Rush. It’s different because men are different from women. Gay men have spent their entire lives showering with straight men. How often has that turned into sex?

  13. Dave says

    Sorry, I think Rush, and commentor John, have a point. I also think Rush is a general jacka**, but I don’t think making fun of his: politics, shtick, weight, looks, messy personal history, etc., detracts from the validity of the discussion. Why do we have gender segrated bathrooms? Why can a woman (or man) rightfully claim to be harrassed just from the way someone of the opposite gender stares at them, but suddenly this does not apply to to same sex situations? I think this is a gray area that needs some thoughtful discussion. I was hoping to be convinced of why Rush and John were wrong by some deeper analysis, but all I have seen here are cheap shots.

  14. Lars says

    EVERY TIME this disgusting canard is raised, we must be unequivocal in our reply:

    Sam played for an entire year as an openly gay college football star. Not just a player on some very low rung; a standout star. And his teammates — again, who all knew his sexual orientation — DID NOT CARE. Not only did his sexuality not bother them (inside the shower or outside the shower), they actually rallied to support him, and to bestow high honor on him.

    Any time — ANY TIME — some idiot raises this stupid shower issue, we must repeat this story. The only way for Sam to have problems in the NFL where he didn’t in Missouri, is if the players/coaches/management of the NFL are substantially more immature and bigoted than the college football players of Missouri. Period.

  15. anon says

    While there is nudity in NFL locker rooms, most of the showers in the NFL are single-stall with door arrangements. There are also steam rooms, saunas, hot tubs and ice baths where players can hang out. There’s also a “media room” for the press to hang out in, including women, and there’s food too. These aren’t like the locker rooms at your local Y.

    Further, the military has handled this quite well, so why can’t the NFL? And, it’s only ONE GUY. They typical player won’t be next to him, and he won’t be showering with other teams, just his own team. The other teams will be in their own locker rooms.

  16. ELI says

    Men and women generally have different facilities because we have different hygienic need. As an example men’s restrooms have urinals and women’s do not and most women’s restrooms have more stalls. Most women prefer cleaner bathing areas which is something men are not known for. A woman may have a slight menstrual flow will showering which would freak a lot of men out. I think most people would prefer to shower alone as most people are not pretty when they are naked.

  17. Uhm...NO says

    I dislike Rush, but it’s really a fair question. Everyone is so adamant about establishing “their” rights, what about the rights of the players who don’t feel comfortable? What if he’s attracted to another player? Sometimes WE need to look at the bigger picture. And yes it is the same as a man being attracted to women showering with them…HE’S GOING TO LOOK!!! Shouldn’t the women have the right to feel uncomfortable? Same thing applies to Heterosexual men. They have rights too!

  18. Princely says

    Why does this prick think he’s got the moral high ground on ANYTHING after being caught as a pill snorting hop head?! (And, don’t fool yourself, at the amounts he was buying, he was snorting those things.)

  19. Uhm...NO says

    And publications and outlets such as this one often promote gay men as insatiable sexual creatures who long to drool over a beautiful male body! No all of a sudden you say there’s an “off” switch??? You can’t have it both ways!

  20. Dastius Krazitauc says

    @Uhm…No. It is not the same. I want you to give me a scenario where by virtue of their jobs, men would ever be sharing a shower with women? That is nonsense equivalent to saying same sex marriage will lead to man/animal marriage.

    As for your concern that someone might look at someone else naked? So what? Everyone else is looking.

  21. Bernie says

    I wouldn’t expect anything less from someone like this…….Mr. Limbaugh loves to stir the pot for the right wingers and doesn’t care if what he says is pure fiction or nonsensical!

  22. SFshawn says

    “What about the rights of the players who feel uncomfortable?”
    If GROWN supposedly hetero men feel THAT uncomfortable then they should undress in a stall and shower in a stall and hide their tiny parts from the world! Billions of men on the planet and these big, tough, hyper-masculine athletes are AFRAID of who might see them naked. Just because STRAIGHT MEN can’t control their libidos doesn’t mean gay men make them ‘uncomfortable’ it means they make themselves uncomfortable because THEY can’t control their libido!
    Such WIMPS!

  23. andrew says

    Gay and straight men already use the same locker rooms and shower rooms. This should be a non issue. It is brought up by people who are opposed to equality for gay people. I served on a U.S. Navy Destroyer for three years. I used the shower room with my straight shipmates. I didn’t look at them with lust in my heart and certainly never popped a boner. Nope, I just showered.

  24. james st. james says

    If someone was checking me out in the locker room I would take it as a compliment. When it happened to me, it was the coach. Sweet memories. But he was too old for my taste back then. So nothing happened.

    I didn’t mention it when I met his wife.

  25. Zell says

    Ok, I know there’s no requirement to have any knowledge of how to argue when you’re commenting on the internet, but ENOUGH with the ad hominem attacks on Rush Limbaugh. YES, he’s obviously an easy target, and yes, I personally can’t stand the man, but the fact that he is overweight, or ugly, or that his politics are abhorrent, or that he’s a hypocrite, DOES NOT NEGATE HIS POINT. It’s also not enough to say “It’s their own fault if they’re uncomfortable” and “they were showering with closeted gay men all this time,” those don’t actually deal with the issue. And Dastius Krazitauc, the point you’re making makes absolutely zero sense, so please stop making it.

    Rush’s point, and I am utterly loathe to defend the man, is that a gay man showering with attractive straight men is identical, mentally, to a straight guy showering with a bunch of attractive women. And he’s absolutely correct, it IS like that. And that leads to a lot of other questions: would you say to a bunch of naked women “Get over it!” if they expressed discomfort showering in front of a naked guy? And let’s all be honest, we’re mostly gay men here: you don’t look at the naked guys in the gym shower, if they’re good looking?

    I’m proud of Michael Sam and I actually don’t think the shower thing is much of a problem at all, but to be honest I find myself at kind of a loss for why it’s CLEARLY ok for a gay guy to shower with straight men but not ok for a man to shower with women. One thing I do know, however, is that immediately shouting down and discounting the discomfort felt by straight athletes does no good, and saying that Rush is wrong because he’s fat and annoying and hypocritical is disingenuous.

  26. Jon says

    Exactly, Zell. Thank you for stating the issue the way you did. It is a real issue, and for some, a matter of personal concern and privacy that needs to be talked through and dealt with rather than flippantly telling straight football players to “get over it.”

    Separate shower stalls with curtains/doors would be the best way to go, and would go a long way in overcoming these issues. Gay players ought to play, and be who they are, but sensitivity ought also to be paid to their straight colleagues when it comes to matters of being in a state of undress.

  27. Bill says

    @Jon : Curiously, before the public nudity ban (with exceptions for specific events) went into effect, you’d see several naked guys wandering around the Castro. You could easily tell who the tourists were because the tourists were the only ones looking at them. Gays generally ignored them. They’d have gotten more attention if they wore burkas on the theory that there might be something underneath worth looking at.

  28. macguffin54 says

    As someone who has refused to shower in gyms because I find it awkward being naked in front of strangers (porn fantasies aside) I can actually understand this line of thinking … to a point. Rationally, I also think it is a silly fear, because what difference does it make how or why people are looking at me? How would I even know and why would it matter? But, ultimately, I honestly find it odd that people shower in front of teammates and walk around locker rooms naked, regardless of who’s (potentially) looking. To me if you are going to be naked in front of a group of people you have to expect people are going to be looking, for one reason or another. I have a high regard for privacy and I just don’t understand why this happens. Clothing stores have individual changing rooms. Why don’t locker rooms? People should, at least, have personal shower stalls. But maybe that’s just me?

  29. GregV says

    @Zell and @Jon: Gay men/ straight men/ bi men showering together is NOT the same psychologically as straight men showering with women.

    There is a reason that so many straight men know they would have instant etections in a women’s shower toom while gay men DON’T have thst problem. Why? Because in America, people shower and use public toilets in the same room in public with friends and strangers and teammates of the same gender and they’ve already been doing that ALL THEIR LIVES.

    For every team I’ve known, the shower and locker room is a vital venue for bonding as a team. When you’re out there playing, you’re too busy working to spend any time getting to know people. Once the game is done, the casual talk about the game in the shower, the exchange of ideas for plans for later when you’re getting your shirt and socks on, etc. affords another hour or so of bonding time. It would be isolating to have everyone alone in their own private area. It would be like a post-game meal where each player eats in a private booth alone where he can’t see or speak to anybody.
    And I have known a straight guy from another country who had an issue with sitting at a restaurant table with a male. People like that just need to get over the neurosis about imagining that others are looking at them and thinking things when it’s all in their own imaginations.

  30. FFS says

    Yeah. A bunch of unfamiliar handles suddenly show up agreeing with and congratulating each other for arguing the exact same ludicrous point of view? Another day at Trollroad. How are you, Brian Brown? Back from Russia, so soon?

    I’m sorry, but “Zell” should hold off on clearing off mantle space for his intelligence award. “He” arrived at the correct answer, but via completely ass-backward reasoning. It’s okay for gay men to shower with straight men. Because? Self-control. It’s also okay for men and women to shower together. Because? Same answer.

    The only reason it’s not common practice is because this nation was founded by Puritans and all of our customs derive from the ignorant notion that nudity is sinful and that’s when the devil takes hold. Nudity always leads to sex. And sex is always bad.

    It’s idiotic. It’s the exact same flawed, immature reasoning that presumes playing violent video games turns children into serial killers. It sounds plausible enough, if you’re a lazy thinker with only a passing familiarity with logic. On closer inspection, the lived reality couldn’t be further from the truth.

  31. andrew says

    Would straight men rather know or not know who the gay guys are who are using the locker room and shower room with them? Right now, it is almost certain that in every high school, college and pro sports teams locker rooms and shower rooms there are gay guys sharing the space with straight guys. Trouble is those gay guys don’t pop boners so the straight guys can know who is who.

  32. emjayay says

    GregV: Excellent comment – thanks. And no thumbs up or reply function in this low rent comment system.

    Men and women don’t shower and have locker rooms together because of the tradition of male dominance and patriarchy and aggression and the related power dynamics . In more advanced societies, this is clearly changing and has been for a very long time, particularly since the subculture/modern femininsm era.

    If men and women were really equal and treated each other completely as equals in every way, and this was going on for a century or two just to make sure, maybe we would have one locker room and one shower.

  33. Jason R. says

    I hate everything Rush stands for, but his concerns are real. However, I think broad cultural acceptance of GLBT will also come with the realization that nudity does not equal sex. I visited a few spas in South Korea. It wasn’t uncommon to see fathers, sons, and friends washing/shaving/massaging each other, completely nude, with no sexual connotation. The difference is cultural. As the culture changes, straight guys will realize the lockerroom is not heaven for gay men. We’ve seen flaccid penises all our lives, it takes more than that to peek our interest.

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