Comments

  1. Eric says

    This is what is known as the bystander effect:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

    Most people are nervous about reacting in crisis situations like this, and the more people there are around, the less individual responsibility any one person feels they have. People think, “Surely someone else has already called the police or gotten help.”

    It is truly awful what happened to these men, but this is not anti-gay animus or apathy towards the plight of two gay men. This is simply a well-documented human herd response to a horrifying crisis situation.

  2. Jt says

    I call BS, Eric. We don’t so the bystander effect here in SF. I just noticed this with Castro denizens making sure a fighting homeless couple didn’t tear each other apart on Market & Church. Maybe it’s more about the Village not being what it used to be.

  3. NotSafeForWork says

    I hope they catch the animal who did this and put him in a cage where he belongs. A pox on anyone else who made a decision to not get involved.

  4. JimmyD says

    I call BS, JT… until a year ago I lived in the Castro. No. It’s not a “Village not being what it use to be” thing. There have been PLENTY of crimes in SF, including the Castro, where people just stood by, doing nothing. Let’s not generalize.

  5. litper says

    NYPD is participtating in anti-gay parade, why are we surprised they condone anti-gay violence?

  6. crispy says

    It’s horrible what they’ve gone through, and I wish them well…

    But OMG, in that picture, they’re like a real-life Cam and Mitchell from Modern Family. Even the way they are sitting with one’s hand on the other’s leg is exactly how they do those interview segments on Modern Family.

  7. CPT_Doom says

    I’m with Eric on this – it’s a real phenomenon, and I have experienced it myself. I was attacked on a public street in DC – bashed with a brick – and knew no one would step forward to help me because of the bystander effect. However, the way to overcome that is to specifically single someone out to help you – don’t expect anyone to offer, but point to someone and specifically say “can you call the police?” That is what I did and people did help.

  8. Qj201 says

    West 4th street, where all the trains from the outer boroughs stop to let off the thugs, trash and idiots to prowl the West Village. Not a safe station late at night. I always use 14th St. after midnight.

  9. David From Canada says

    I remember this type of thing started to happen back in the 1960’s – I believe it was 1964 – when a young woman was attacked and killed on a sidewalk in NYC and the bystanders did nothing to help her. It made headlines everywhere. So sad that it’s still happening today.

  10. Jude says

    Eric is right, the Bystander Effect is real. It should be publicized more. Then people might be aware they’re in the middle of a psychological pattern and pull themselves out of it.

  11. Mike in the Tundra says

    Twice in my life, I’ve seen situations that I thought I should do something about (men beating their wives). I stepped in both times, but I was scared to death. It’s hard to do.

  12. jaker says

    the bigger question is what did the boyfriend do? it’s not even addressed.

    and when are we going to hear about gay men fighting back? it was 2 against one.

    50 men and women on the enrire platform, theyre probably spread out and dont understand the context of a violent commotion or what started it or if there are weapons. frankly not getting involved is completely understandable.

    and it’s only men who are expected to get involved.

  13. Nino says

    I have to say, I feel sorry that these guys had to go through this. But I do wonder — what’s up with all these gay guys getting their asses kicked? I don’t know a single guy among my friends who would be subjected to this. They would be the ones kicking ass. Could we have at least one story where it wasn’t about some gay guy getting the sh*t kicked out of him? What about “gay guy fights back” and wins?!

  14. says

    @DAVID FROM CANADA: the case you are remembering was the murder of Kitty Genovese in Kew Gardens, Queens, on 13 March 1964, and the way you are remembering it is the way it was reported at that time. And you’re right in remembering that it prompted research into the “bystander effect”.

    However, the reporting was sensationalized; “For more than half an hour thirty-eight respectable, law-abiding citizens in Queens watched a killer stalk and stab a woman in three separate attacks in Kew Gardens” was typical, and it’s what is remembered, but it’s just plain wrong. Neighbors called out their windows, stopping the first attack, and a neighbor called police after the second attack. Most of the “38” people could only hear one of the incidents, and couldn’t see it, and frankly had no idea what was going on. The police ignored the phone call from the neighbor.

    What also wasn’t reported at the time was that Kitty Genovese was lesbian.

    You can read more at the linked url.

  15. Andrew says

    So two able-bodied adult males are attacked by one male and they do nothing to defend themselves. So why on Earth should a bystander put himself at risk for 2 people who won’t defend themselves? I agree that they should have called the police, but to suggest that they should have intervened in the fight, as if these 2 are little children or are elderly people, is ridiculous.

  16. Jude says

    All you guys who think it’s so easy to fight back, or to defend your loved one who has just been bashed… You have no idea how you will react in any situation.

    When your loved one is in severe pain, bleeding, etc. while the ass is running away, you’re going to tend to him rather than chase the brute.

    You have no idea how you will respond when someone inflicts violence upon you or your loved one. Even for those of us who have successfully defended ourselves in the past, you can easily see how the situation might have been very different.

    Fine, advocate training in self-defense — I certainly do. Learn how to use a pistol, for god’s sake. Learning is always a good thing.

    But NEVER assume you would respond to a violent situation like a wild west hero. You might, you might not. When someone you care about has been brutalized right next to you, it is natural to tend to him and make sure he is OK. The real coward took you off-guard and ran off. You stayed to focus on the better human being. THAT is what being a hero is.

  17. enchantra says

    I was attacked outside the DC Eagle many years ago. Bystander effect my foot- let’s call it what it is: the Cowardly Queen Effect. No one in that crowd could have thought that someone else was doing something about it. I called out to them. I yelled, “Help me, don’t just stand there!” Nothing. It wasn’t until the doorman half a block away noticed that I was pinned to the hood of a car and came running, distracting the assailant, that I could escape. The police were called and said that they couldn’t do anything because they didn’t see it and I wasn’t bleeding. Seriously. I asked them to put the criminal in their car, drive him to a remote area of the city and then release him so he couldn’t be waiting for me when I left. Nope.

    This is why you arm yourselves people. It’s not paranoia. It’s not cowardice. You didn’t grow up in a violent and criminal culture. You didn’t grow up street fighting. The odds are against you in a fist fight. Criminals and thugs don’t fight “fair”. Guns are an equalizer. A five foot tall man with a gun can stand his ground against a six foot tall man with fists like hammers. A man who is beating you is not “unarmed” no matter how many times the POS Lawrence O’Donnell repeats it.

  18. Sian says

    This reminds me of those losers at the movie theater in TX about a year ago. 6 or 7 gay guys harassed by one guy. And they all sit there and take it until one of them goes and runs to get “help” from the manager. I wonder what he said. “Please, help us! We are being harassed and we only have a 7-1 advantage!”

    Then there was the incident in Greenwich Village in NY City in which several guys were attacked by 1 guy. And there was the guy in the ultra gay Chelsea neighborhood who harassed and attacked gay “men” on a busy street. That guy was probably surrounded by dozens of gays but no one stopped him. Finally, a city bus pulled over and the bus driver – an actual man – got out and saved the dozens of faux men from further distress.

    How pathetic. A bunch of guys who probably go to the gym to look like men, but who lack the requisite character to qualify.

  19. says

    I am friends with these guys, it may help those who are asking why one did not defend the other to read how they recounted it to me, instead of the 30 second news clip when CBS stalked them outside their home and started asking questions.

    If you are interested please click my name above to read my blog post about it.

  20. Jude says

    ENCHANTRA – I couldn’t agree with you more! Guns ARE the great equalizer. Often people don’t need to pull the trigger…just pulling it out gets the guy running.

    At the very least, gay couples should keep a pump shotgun at home. And yes, learn to use it.

  21. Jude says

    CHRIS – thank you for the blog post. I’m sorry about what happened to your friends. May they catch the ass and reconstruct his face.

  22. says

    Thanks Jude. It is very easy to armchair-quarterback a situation like this, but until it’s happening to you, I can’t imagine you’d know what you do.

    You need to understand the sequence of events… the verbal exchange happened, they moved away from him, he followed them when they were walking away, one behind the other.

    The physical part happened very quickly… JP realized they were being followed, turned around to disengage the guy, and was hit. By the time Peter realized it happened, the guy was gone. It was that fast.

    And for those suggesting a gun would have solved it, I don’t even know if there was time for anything like that, and pulling a gun on a crowded subway platform would have possibly led to more complications.

  23. anon says

    Okay, the standard advice is to carry a cell phone with a camera with and don’t go around drunk. Attackers are much more likely to attack people who are drunk than not. I’m not saying these two were drunk, but it’s something you need to consider. The cell phone can be used to warn off the perp that you will take their picture and e-mail out so they can be identified by the police. That increases the odds they’ll back off considerably. Obviously not a guarantee, but then, you’re never completely safe. Now, some assaults do happen very quickly, so, when socializing it’s better to go in groups of three or more. It’s amazing that advice they’ve been giving to single women for years has not been given to gay men.

  24. says

    Why are we surprised? The world did nothing as LGBT people continue to be attacked and persecuted in Russia. No boycotts, as “that would be unfair to the athletes”, so money went to Russia, and now they’re….well….. I assume y’all are watching the news. “maybe we’ll get a Jesse Owens moment” – we didn’t. Why? Simple: it’s “just gays” – people dont’ seem to mind when we get killed or beaten or persecuted. We’re Just Gays.

    The utter cesspool that has become that corner of the west village around W 4th station has been getting worse over the years. Something needs to be done – big time. Something I noticed living in NYC – their police department needs LGBT-specific Sensitivity Training – PRONTO. So many cases over the years of a cop on the scene doing NOTHING about an anti-gay gay attack, in a few well-publicized cases even letting the perp GO and not taking proper information from statements.
    But if you have a house party that gets a bit too loud, trust they’ll be there in a few minutes.

    As for “bystander effect” – wasn’t there a study done years ago that people will respond more to “FIRE!” than “RAPE!”?

  25. says

    LK the cops were actually great this time, with the exception of giving their contact info to the news crews so they could be stalked outside their house.

  26. Jude says

    CHRIS – you are right, it is impossible to tell how anyone might react in that situation.

    As for the guns, no, it is not a good idea to use in every situation, including this one in the crowded subway (IMO). But if you’re alone in a bad area, it is a good idea. But to each their own…

  27. Mike says

    Have been savagely beaten up myself by a small group for JUST leaving a gay bar with someone that I met there and certainly not want to take ANYTHING away from the disturbingly brutal crime, while SO many people watched and did ABSOLUTELY nothing!

    HOWEVER, did anyone else, besides the always observant CRISPY, (Well spotted man!), see the resemblance between the REAL COUPLE that were so viciously attacked and Mitchell Pritchett (Jesse Tyler Ferguson) and Cameron Tucker (Eric Stonestreet) in the all too “Hollywoodized” version on a “Modern Family”?

  28. Ricardo says

    I left NYC because of the amount of homophobia in the streets. I left the city this past summer after living there for 5 years. It is HORIFICALLY homophobic, often you fear your life if you are identifiably gay. And it’s not nearly as gay friendly as people make it out to be.

  29. Monty says

    I’m so sick of the South being pegged as a homophobic environment when the two times I’ve faced fear for my life over being gay were both while visiting NYC.

    The south has a lot of growing up to do in terms of gay rights, ut New Yorkers thinking they are so superior in terms of human rights is complete bogus considering your city had the most vile LONGGGG string of anti gay hate crimes sweeping the city just a few months ago.

  30. J.R Contez says

    I’m latino and live in harlem and unfortunately experience lots of homophobic outbursts and threats often by my own people out here, some saying they resent a brown boy being a f-g. and when these thugs come at me, ain’t nobody coming to defend me. Which is crazy. What happened to neighbors having each others back? it’s messed up and I’m looking forward to day when I can save up and get out.

  31. Hugh says

    Instead of discussing the HOMOPHOBIA in this story and the fact that gay people (FAR MORE SO THAN RACIAL MINORITIES OR ANY OTHER MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY) are being physically attacked on our streets, you self hating gays attack the couple and victim blame.

    Why do I get the impression if a gay couple attacked an ethnic minority, ALL the comments here would be blaming every gay person and the entire community?

    That’s right…air your homophobia. Air it and reaffirm it.But know, karma exists and next time your behind is attacked (and may it be soon) don’t expect ANYONE to come to your defense.

  32. Vince Philly says

    I agree with others. I’m sick of NYC being painted as some paradise for LGBT. It’s not. And New York LGBT are the most complacent LGBT in the country. When these hate crimes occur attacking trans and gay folks, the NY LGBT community is always silent and now they victim blame. Anywhere else and the entire city would hear about it and come to a stand still reflecting the incident. In NYC? LGBT almost expect to be attacked.

  33. says

    If they did, maybe they thought the people who had just been victims of a crime wouldn’t then appreciate having their mannerisms picked apart by their fellow gays on the Internet.

    They were not even planning on going public with this story (other than obviously dealing with the police)… they got home and found a news crew at their door. Gay men exhibiting traits associated with gay men, story at 11!

  34. Derrick from Philly says

    @ “Why do I get the impression if a gay couple attacked an ethnic minority..,”

    And when you visualize them, what’s the ethnicity of the couple, HUGH?

  35. Factoids says

    I am tired of gay men not fighting back. I don’t expected us to win, but, yes, it is odd two gay men did nothing while one was beat up. If nothing else, you pile on the guy together. You kick. You pick up whatever you can find and start hitting. You stab with a pen if you got that. You don’t just sit there and take it. I guess I just come from the school of thought that I would rather fight back than act as if i don’t have the survival instinct.

  36. Factoids says

    By the way, I have actually been in fights. Very violent ones. So to all those who rest behind the feeling that this is all talk, you don’t get. Its sad that you feel you don’t need to learn how to defend yourselves.

  37. Miles says

    No wonder so many left this site. Nothing but self hating, self loathing, old bitter queers who have severe internalized homophobia.

  38. Duration & Convexity says

    If your initial reaction to yet another story about violent homophobia in our major cities is to blame gays or the gay couple, then you are actually no better than the homophobic attacker. Might wanna examine that.

  39. Duration & Convexity says

    If your initial reaction to yet another story about violent homophobia in our major cities is to blame gays or the gay couple, then you are actually no better than the homophobic attacker. Might wanna examine that.

  40. Ring World says

    Gee, why is towleroad not mentioning the RACE of the attacker in a site where many gay New Yorkers visit and can find the info helpful? Political correctness harms.

  41. Bryan says

    Chris, it’s not many gay men picking apart your friends actions…it’s maybe 2 at most posting with various screenames. This blog’s comment section has more trolls than any other gay blog, hence why traffic is very low and so many former posters have migrated to other gay blogs.

  42. Sian says

    @Chris:

    So i read your blog post to get more info about this attack that supposedly wasn’t included in the news reports. There is really no additional info in your post. Your post says exactly what the news reports say. You note that they claim not to have been wary even after the perp called them a slur. Well, maybe that’s true or maybe they are spinning this. But regardless, once he struck the first blow, there was no doubt about his intentions. So the question remains: how is it that 2 able-bodied men offer no resistance and allow themselves to be beaten by 1 man? Why do they think that strangers on the subway platform have an obligation to defend them when they don’t defend themselves?

  43. Andrew says

    Re victim blaming: There is a difference between blaming the victim for a crime that he didn’t commit and criticizing the victim for his actual conduct during and after the crime.

    In this case, no one on this site has blamed the victims for this attack. The perp is 100% responsible.

    What is being criticized is the failure or the unwillingness of these 2 guys to defend themselves, or even try to. And when they are casting blame on bystanders for not “helping,” it is totally fair to look at their reactions and ask whether they are upset that the strangers failed to “help” or whether they really expected these strangers to step in and fight the entire fight for them.

  44. Derrick from Philly says

    @ “Gee, why is towleroad not mentioning the RACE of the attacker…”

    What for? We have the police sketch. The cowardly Gay-bashing punk is obviously a mixture of Sweedish and Danish ancestry….and maybe a little Luxembourganian thrown in.

  45. Tyler says

    So Little Kiwi is here to stoke racism again. I guess he got tired of trashing Mexicans, so now he comes here to trash talk about a corner in Greenwich Village where a lot of youths of color hang out. He calls that a cesspool. Which tells you exactly what LK, a white male from Canada, thinks about non-white Americans.

  46. crispy says

    Enchantra,
    You can’t carry a gun in DC. So how exactly would that have helped you?

    My guess is no one came to your aid because no one likes you.

    A much better way to prevent situations like this is to simply not put yourself in dangerous areas. Why the eff were you walking down New York Ave. at night alone? When we leave The Eagle, we hail a cab at the front door. These days, you can call a cab or Uber before you even leave the establishment.

    PS: The DC Eagle is moving to Anacostia in a few months. Safety hint: Go to a different bar.

  47. says

    CHRIS – take solace; the commenter(s) in here blaming the vicitms are, every single one, lying anonymous internet cowards. This site, unfortunately, has two very sick and pathetic men who come on every day, and under various screen names denigrate “queens” while boasting of their own unverified and false yet wished-for “masculinity” – they’re liars, regular readers know they’re liars, and they come here every day to anonymously pretend that they’re “strong and masculine” because they never got over being embarrassments to their fathers. textbook.

    Just like the troll who posts anti-mexican stuff under my name is now using Tyler’s name to ….talk about me. the point? there are obsessive trolls here with no balls and no lives. take solace: they’re anonuymous cowards and will die alone. so it’s ok.

    in other news, Hi to the REAL Tyler, when he comes to read. :)

  48. Factoid says

    I’m not blaming the victim.

    They are not at fault fior being attacked.

    I am also not saying the crowd should not have helped.

    They should.

    I am saying as someone who has had to deal with violence that you need to learn how to fight

    I’m not saying you would win every fight r even any but you will decrease the chance of infjury and the more stories of gay men beating down their attackers the less that gay men will be attacked

    I’m saying don’t be an wet target

  49. Gio says

    Anyone victim blaming, just be warned, karma exists. Talking a big game behind a computer screen won’t help you when your karma comes after you.

  50. Jules says

    If a gay man brutally beat an ethnic minority, him being gay would constantly be discussed even on here. I agree with others. Stop being politically correct about this. Those of us in NYC know who is targeting us and remaining silent about it won’t make the problem go away.

  51. Truth Hurts says

    @ Andrew

    How many screennames do you now have on this site? Are you still posting as UFFDA?

    And are you still encouraging your straight friends to use the phrase f-ggot because it’s cute to you?

    YOU are the last person qualified to comment on this or any story relating to homophobia.

  52. Dorgan says

    Carry a gun and SHOOT these thugs when they attack us. They’ll eventually get the message.

  53. Ben says

    Crispy, would your solution for black people getting attacked strictly for their skin color be that the black people shouldn’t be in that neighborhood? Of course not. Funny how when it comes to homophobia, you demand gays displace themselves as opposed to demanding a society and CULTURE to confront it’s homophobia.

  54. Jacob says

    LOL at the people saying why should the crowd have broken up the attack? Remember that next time you are beat to death. In fact, let’s hope some of you are. You sound like you could use the humility.

  55. Concord says

    Andrew,
    why should bystandards help? BECAUSE IT’S A HUMAN LIFE. It’s called humanity.

    I’m really sick and tired of the devil advocate’s who come on here and for arguments sake always take an opposing viewpoint. Anyone willing to argue no one should step up to help another distressed and beat human being is pretty much either a monster, or on here to get a reaction. Which seems to be the trend on this comments area now.

  56. Derrick from Philly says

    @ “Crispy, would your solution for black people getting attacked strictly for their skin color be that the black people shouldn’t be in that neighborhood?

    Well, that might be the smart thing to do. I don’t know about nowadays, but we practiced that solution for years. There were parts of South Philly I WOULD HAVE been caught dead in.

  57. enchantra says

    Crispy – DOn’t be an ass. I was 18 and handsome, everybody loved me (over and over).

    Of course you can carry a gun in DC. The Constitution says that the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    At the time, the DC Eagle was on 7th Street and we were going to the Exile across the street and up some (used to be the Last National Bank) .

    When I was a kid, Anacostia wasn’t a hell hole. The homes on Alabama Avenue were gorgeous. We went to St. Mark’s Church and shopped at Sears and Iverson Mall. It was safe, Then the Naylor theater became unsafe, Coral Hills became unsafe. Seat Pleasant, District Heights, Capitol Heights, all fell like dominoes. The schools became unsafe. Iverson Mall’s parking lot was a good place to get robbed, and the menace started moving out towards Temple Hills, Oxon Hill, and Ft. Washington. It’s a shame, because it was all pretty nice before 1970.

  58. Derrick from Philly says

    @ BEN,

    seriously (which I don’t want to be right now), I don’t think that CRISPY is saying that Gay people have to “displace” themselves. But we must be aware of where the hell we are–what neighborhoods pose what risks.

    Back when we did have Black Gay clubs in Philly there were certain neighborhoods which were dangerous for us Gays. But we wanted to be around each so much that took the risk. And every now and then there were horror stories about what happened to folks coming to or leaving those places.

    I’ll leave it at that.

  59. crispy says

    “you demand gays displace themselves as opposed to demanding a society and CULTURE to confront it’s homophobia.”

    Calling a cab from inside a club in an unsafe area and demanding that society confront its homophobia are not mutually exclusive.

    Unless you have the sense of a mentally handicapped toad, which appears to your case.

  60. crispy says

    Good gawd, Enchantra, just how old are you?

    In any case, please do grab your gun, and carry it across the Memorial Bridge. But let me know first when you’re going to do it, I’ll bring popcorn and a flask.

  61. says

    For anybody who was curious, the attacker was Caucasian and had what they thought — during their very brief interaction — to be an eastern European accent. He asked them if they were Polish, and — when one of them said he was part Polish — he started talking to them in what they could only guess was Polish.

    Draw from that anything you wish.

  62. jarago says

    I have been taking the train at the 4th street station for years and have never felt it was not safe.

  63. Sian says

    Gio/Jacob/Kiwi – You are obviously Little Kiwi, since only Kiwi is malicous and psychotic enough to wish hate crimes on other people. This is the same toxic person who daily wishes suicide on people with whom he disagrees. LK/Gio/Jacob, you are really a bad person. Also, you don’t understand what karma means or how it operates so we can add ignorance to your love of violence and to your racism.

    Chris – How about answering the 2 questions from my previous post: “how is it that 2 able-bodied men offer no resistance and allow themselves to be beaten by 1 man? Why do they think that strangers on the subway platform have an obligation to defend them when they don’t defend themselves?”

    Concord – Although your comment was directed at Andrew, I’m going to respond since I posted an opinion similar to Andrew’s. The bystanders definitely should have called the police. No question about that. But did they have a duty to enter into a physically dangerous situation to defend 2 adult males who appear to be perfectly capable of defending themselves? If this thug were attacking children or a disabled person or an elderly person, the calculus changes. But in this case, these folks saw one guy attacking *two* able-bodied guys. Would it have been noble and decent of them to step in and fight the battle for these guys? Yes. But is it a moral obligation in the way that it would be if the victims were children? And if it is a moral obligation to defend these 2 guys from attack, then why doesn’t that same obligation attach to the 2 guys to defend themselves?

  64. Tollard says

    Crispy victim laming as they always do in this comments area. Crispy sure seems to have a grudge with gay people who are attacked as opposed to ever having an ounce of empathy.

  65. Vincent says

    Some of these comments make no sense. OF COURSE gay people fight back and attack back, but why the heck would that make the news? If a gay person being attacked fought back and the attacker ran away (which has happened many times) then why would that story make the news?!

    My friends and I were jumped by a few thugs who were homophobic and we beat the crap out of them. Why would that make the news?

    Attacks toward LGBT however DO need to make the news so LGBT and heterosexuals alike know that prejudice exists and needs to stop.

  66. Vincent says

    Crispy, now you’re just arguing for arguments sake. Who in the heck calls a cab inside a loud club in a predominantely gay area for fear of being attacked? Wow. You must live life anticipating being attacked. Or, you just love being a know it all who can preach at people for not living life as though it’s a chess game. Have a seat.

  67. says

    @SIAN:

    They were hurrying, one behind the other, along the subway platform. The guy in the back realized the attacker was pursuing them, turned around, and got clocked, three times, in quick succession. His eye socket and nose were broken.

    His partner, who was in front of him, turned around when he realized he wasn’t behind him and saw that the damage was done. By that point the attacker was gone. There was no opportunity to gang up on the attacker.

    It is not like they both laid down, covered their faces and took punches for fifteen minutes. It all happened in the span of about 15-20 seconds.

  68. Sian says

    OK, well that was not in your blog post. In fact, you give the impression that it went on longer as you say that the folks on the platform averted their eyes and focused on their cell phones.

    Assuming that it went down the way you now say, then it was basically a sucker punch and I would agree that fighting back wasn’t an option. But by the same token, if the whole incident was over in a matter of seconds and the thug was gone before the partner even turned around, then why are we even discussing why no one on the platform intervened? How could anyone on the platform intervene if it was all over in a matter of seconds?

  69. crispy says

    Tollard and Vincent, I realize this comment thread has gone to 3 pages, but do try to keep up, dears.

    My comments about calling a cab inside a loud club (and many people do that, it’s called Uber… welcome to 2014) were in reference to Enchantra’s story about the DC Eagle. It was intended solely as a response to his suggestion that we all carry guns, which (a) aren’t legal to carry in Washington DC and (b) aren’t allowed in the Eagle.

    I wasn’t victim blaming the two gentlemen in this story. I don’t know enough about their situation to have any comment other than I hope he recovers quickly.

  70. Dennis says

    Thank you to this brave couple for coming forward and speaking out about this incident. Hope they fully recover.

  71. Just sayin says

    SIAN is Andrew. Anothr gay apologist conservative. May this old fart finally get the cancer he deserves and die a slow painful death.
    Die already Andrew troll. You’ll never be liked and will always be lonely in society.

  72. Duration & Convexity says

    Sian,
    You really do sound like you’re trolling at this point. Picking a fight with the friend of these *victims* all to prove some obnoxious victim blaming point. Very strange. At least I hope you are trolling and not sincere with these twisted talking points of yours.

  73. Duration & Convexity says

    Sian,
    You really do sound like you’re trolling at this point. Picking a fight with the friend of these *victims* all to prove some obnoxious victim blaming point. Very strange. At least I hope you are trolling and not sincere with these twisted talking points of yours.

  74. Mardom says

    Guys, ignore the trolls trying to get a reaction.

    Let’s all wish this couple the best and remember to stand up for gays when we are being attacked.

  75. Sian says

    I am not Andrew. And the last 3 comments were from the deranged Little Kiwi.

    No victim blaming here. The men are not responsible for being attacked. Period.

    The sole issue I raised is why they did not try to defend themselves, and given that lack of self-defense, why third parties have an obligation to do for them what they wouldn’t do for themselves. BTW, if they hadn’t criticized the bystanders for failing to “help”, this wouldn’t even be an issue.

  76. Bill says

    @ Vint : something else I heard about that incident from the 1960s (from someone familiar with the area) was that the attack occurred near a bar whose patrons tended to be very noisy. The neighbors would hear lots of screams due to people being drunk, when nothing else was going on. So possibly some people tuned it out thinking it was the usual noise and not someone who really needed help.

  77. Brad Doles says

    No excuse for inaction. This happened in the heart of a gayborhood. Gays, are we at the gym 6 days a week to just look good or should we put those big guns to actual use. Appalled in NYC.