Comments

  1. RONTEX says

    I thought the BroBible site was perfect. It balanced some good advice with humor and reflected my experiences taking my straight frat friends to our local gay bar.

  2. Håkon says

    There is nothing I hate more than seeing straight guys act offended when they’re hit on in gay bars. It happens more often than you would think.

  3. Sergio says

    I’ve never personally had a problem with women in gay bars. What I have had problems with (at least twice) are straight ‘bro’ types tagging along with a group, and then acting visibly uncomfortable with the experience. Remember, we’re not here to protect your delicate sensibilities. Keep those straight men out, people.

  4. dereksf says

    I live in San Francisco where Popular Bars like Badlands and Cafe are now a good 50% straight on the weekends, with them hogging the dance floor and making out. This is where you use to go to meet people pre-grindr, now you can’t even tell if you’re hitting on a bro or a mo. What can we do to take back our bars?

  5. Mike in Asheville says

    June Thomas, you are as ignorant as Donald Sterling. Perhaps you should fill your time at Clipper games than speaking for the gay community.

  6. Kevin K. says

    Wow, I thought I might be the only one disturbed by the rising number of straight guys (!) in gay bars. They feel less and less like safe spots, and more like the latest places for breeders to accost fag hags. It’s telling that the only fight I’ve ever seen in a gay bar was between a straight guy and a guy who touched his back.

  7. daws says

    Not a fan of separatist talk, but I do get that some straight people can ruin the vibe by acting disgusted or put off. I think we’ve all been there. Hell, I’ve taken straight friends to gay clubs and they completely shut down. It was surprising.

    I’ve been hit on by women and my response isn’t to freak out or be repulsed. So I think there’s insecurity at play for the people that do respond like that. For those people, they probably should stay out of gay clubs then. Work out their issues. Come back when a guy hitting on you doesn’t make your skin crawl or something.

  8. northalabama says

    wrong, just wrong. clubs should be open to anyone who is comfortable in those clubs, and who doesn’t purposely make others feel uncomfortable. what’s next, “gays only” signs? would anyone support “straights only” signs in return?

  9. JeffNYC says

    The Bro Bible gets it right. But, guys, next time you think it would be cool to bring girls and straight guys to the gay bar, here’s an even better idea: GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

  10. Håkon says

    “…and who doesn’t purposely make others feel uncomfortable.”

    Ah, but therein lies the rub… Weird, aggressive entitlement issues flare up when you least expect them.

  11. johnny says

    The bar culture in general – both straight and gay – isn’t a very healthy place to be. They promote alcoholism, meat market mentalities and for me are just negative, sad places to spend time and (way too much) money to have a drink. I can have friends over, serve cocktails, play pool and darts, share some laughs and have a great time at home. And if someone drinks too much, they get a guest room or the couch.

    It’s no wonder gay bars are seeing a huge decline in patrons. There are simply much more healthy ways to be entertained these days than to sit in a dark bar and watch the idiotic games people play with each other. No thanks.

  12. unruly says

    Only two types of people shouldn’t go to gay bars: (1) those who are going to create trouble/violence (2) those who are going to see a zoo/gawk.

    For all the gays who can’t deal with straight girls and guys in the bar, grow the F up. Seems my friends are more mature and accepting than you losers.

  13. David says

    I have to admit, that when I go out to a bar hoping to see or meet some cute guys, it’s annoying when you have a bunch of drunk straight women tripping on you and spilling their drinks, taking liberties with your personal space, and generally being obnoxious. But it’s so politically incorrect to suggest that they not be there. Makes me want to stay home.

  14. grench says

    I’ve never had an issue with straight guys in gay bars. I’ve had more issues with fellow gays who keep trolling me, even when asked to stop, than with straight guys being less-than-flattered by an innocent come on, as long as you take the hint… In fact, I’ve even even lied that I was straight a few times to deflect the tedious come-ons from a few incessantly persistent folks, but stopped when I realized that it made the aggressive trolls even more determined. And, I’ve only been welcomed in lesbian bars, so where is all this angst coming from? Insure folks, I’m sure.

  15. Tatts says

    There is nothing wrong with having OUR OWN space, and people need to respect that. Black bars, lesbian bars, gay bars, Latino bars, etc., all should be able to be places where people of a similar kind can go to relax and have a good time with their own kind.

    It drives me nuts when I see a group of women strolling through a leather bar during some girls’ nite out–or worse, a bachelorette party–thinking they are soooo cool for being there in what they really consider to be a freak show.

    Mixing like that should be highly discouraged.

  16. Gary Bebout says

    Gay bars before marriage, were more than pick up sites, and places to get a drink. They were our safe zone. We weren’t holding Town Meetings of course but…

  17. ElCid says

    This whole post is pretty ridiculous. As we move on to equality “gay”, “lesbian” or “straight” bars should be deemed a thing of the past. we should advocate only for bars, plain and simple, bars.

  18. Michael says

    I used to tend bar at a gay bar in the deep south and not once was there any issue with a straight guy, or straight girls, being in the bar. It’s pretty evident if the guy is straight, usually he’s with girls, a bit shy and/or his gay friend will be quick to point it out. If you can’t respect someone’s orientation you seriously need to ask yourself why others should respect yours.

  19. anon says

    Gals shouldn’t go to a gay bar en masse unless it’s a special events night and guys should not go to lesbian bars ever. Str8 guys should not go to a gay bar unless they are prepared to be the subject of attention or be completely ignored. However, the staff isn’t going to know they are str8, so the advice given above is pointless. Str8 guys should not bring their girlfriends to a gay bar ever.

  20. steve talbert says

    Bars should be more mixed. The only people disturbed by mixing seem to be people uncomfortable with being gay, and thinking straight people are only there to make gays feel inferior. or afraid someone from work might see them. After internet, and especially now with phone apps, the while reason for gay bars shifted.

    The people bothered by the mixing seem to be revealing their insecurity and negative self image. Afraid someone from work is going to see you fail at trying to pick up someone for sex? Think people will think you’re a loser if you go to a bar alone? Gay guys can be ruder when saying no when hit on..

    Everyone at a bar is there because they want to be around other people for whatever reason. I credit the advance in gay rights to many straight people going to gay clubs in college and seeing we are just people, and all the people coming out and bring proud about it.

  21. says

    Count me in with the separatist. As long as gay people are unsafe in straight bars, they should stay for us. Straight people have an abundance of places they can go and do whatever it is they do without much fuss but there are far too many stories of “straight” bar owners having gays(specifically) men thrown out for being too friendly. I also don’t like when straight women have bachelorette parties at gay bars/clubs and treat the gay male patrons like they are entertainment.

  22. William says

    I like the BroBible, but the woman in that video is acting like an arrogant jerk herself. Who the hell is she to dictate rules about who is welcome where?

    As far as the presence of straight guys in a gay bar making gays feel uncomfortable, if they’re knowingly going to a gay bar to have a good time, they can’t possibly be that uncomfortable with gays or intent on making gays uncomfortable by their presence. In fact, the only gays I’ve ever seen “uncomfortable” by the presence of a straight guy in their bar were meth’d-out or cracked-out queens who created this self delusion they were in an exclusive, superior subculture. That says more about their self-esteem than it does about their sexual orientation. Perhaps they’ll view the question more maturely when they drop the chemicals.

    As to the commenter who pointed out the only fight he saw in a gay bar (hard to believe) was when a gay guy put his hand on a straight guys back, I have this to say. Non-consensual body contact is always in appropriate regardless of your gender and sexual orientation and the gender and sexual orientation of the person you’re touching. Social etiquette goes both ways.

  23. John says

    I have a question for all you people who bring straight people to gay bars: why do you go to gay bars and not straight bars? If it allegedly doesn’t matter who goes to what bar, then why don’t you just go to the straight bar? (Don’t lie: the answer is because you’d experience homophobia at a straight bar.)

  24. says

    Any video series tacky enough to call itself “Ask A Homo” isn’t worth watching. Didn’t I say that once people started “reclaiming” the Q-word, the rest of the sex and gender slurs wouldn’t be far behind? I draw a dividing line between myself and people who insist on being identified as queers, f*gs, homos, etcetera. Stay your asses over on your side, please!

  25. William says

    Umm, John. I do go to straight bars, as well as straight bars; whichever serves having a good time with the company I’m keeping at any particular moment. Don’t make assumptions about what people do. Society is becoming much too fluid today for that… and that’s a good thing!

  26. northalabama says

    håkon – the last place an aggressive person who feels entitled needs to be is anywhere that serves alcohol, gay or straight. that’s a completely different issue than the one being discussed here.

  27. Paul R says

    Uhh, John, no. My boyfriend, a straight brother, his girlfriend, and I used to go to gay bars almost exclusively. The reasons were simple: better music, he was flattered if he got hit on, she was tired of always being hit on and he didn’t have to worry about her getting hit on, all the guys loved her because she’s funny and beautiful, people would get confused whether he was the straight one or I was (we come across like twins), etc. Oh, and the drinks were cheaper and it was just fun. He’d been a total frat boy but after I came out, he became extremely gay friendly.

    Straight people are invading gay bars because cool straight people realize that most straight bars are overpriced, juvenile hellholes. I’m not tickled pink that straights are taking over SF bars given that my gaydar is nonexistent and straight men start talking to me much faster than do gay guys–leaving me perpetually confused. But I rarely go to bars, and aside from the annoying bachelorette parties and freaked-out “dudes” (both being types of people I would hate anywhere), having straights around isn’t a big deal. For a couple years I spent most several happy hours a week at a punk bar because it’s close, has a great free jukebox, and my huge dog was allowed inside. I became the token gay pretty quickly because my friend told people I’m gay (they’d wondered why I didn’t have a GF), and no one ever suggested that I shouldn’t be there. Every single regular there (male or female; mostly male) knew me by name (I’m awful with faces) and was unfailingly sweet; I hardly ever paid for drinks.

    That woman in the video is just plain awful.

  28. Dr R says

    All the whining about “safe space” is extremely depressing and reeks of unconscious economic entitlement. Thankfully there are a few here who do not extol fear and distrust of those who are different as virtues.

  29. Sergio says

    “the only fight he saw in a gay bar (hard to believe)”

    Why is that hard to believe? I have never seen a fight at a gay bar. They’re not terribly violent places, dear.

  30. Håkon says

    You missed my point, NorthAlabama. In general, straight men feel more entitled than gay men to have their needs and wants respected and indulged – that’s an effect of societal disparity, not alcohol.

  31. Sergio says

    “Non-consensual body contact is always inappropriate regardless of your gender and sexual orientation and the gender and sexual orientation of the person you’re touching. Social etiquette goes both ways.”

    Wait, does that error make violence O.K.? Are you excusing violence for straight men? Or would you also be alright with a gay guy attacking a girl who grabbed his ass? Violence is never acceptable, so I don’t know what you’re trying to sanction with that comment.

  32. Paul R says

    If someone started a fight because someone else merely touched their back, that person is going to have trouble at any bar or, for that matter, almost anywhere. A straight guy that aggressive would have to be rip-roaring drunk to start a fight over such an “offense” when on unfamiliar turf, and it seems unlikely that someone so antigay would be in a gar bar in the first place. Perhaps there was more to the story. (Note that I’m not defending the violence or the inappropriate touching; I just think something else likely preceded the fight.)

  33. William says

    @Sergio: I am not justifying violence. I was responding to the assertion that someone was wrong for being upset at unwanted touch.

    As for violence in gay bars, we have a few that are notorious (or, at least used to be in the 90s) for violent outbreaks, sometimes involving weapons. Straights are the only people capable of that.

  34. northalabama says

    “I have never seen a fight at a gay bar.”

    i haven’t either, but i saw a few drag queens throwing high heels in a hotel parking lot at an after party one night!

  35. says

    Go into any bar you like but respect the atmosphere and environment. Don’t try to take it over and remodel it to suit your own needs and comfort level. Invasions are obnoxious. If you’re a straight person in a gay bar, you should be the one adjusting how you act to suit the space. For people who are secure and reasonably mature this shouldn’t be an issue, but the occasional drunken idiots will always believe they own whatever environment they land in. People who are freaked out by a touch probably don’t belong in any bar.

  36. Shawn says

    I prefer a pub myself. Not quite run down or a dive but a bit basic and rough. I know my presence there makes some of the straights uncomfortable. Most of them love having me around. I’ve been to gay bars but I guess not enough to have such firm thoughts and feelings about who else was there. It’s entirely possible I lack the experience to know what I’m talking about. I think the conversation about inclusion/exclusion should be based on people’s behaviour when they are out rather than their sexuality.

  37. Sandra says

    I believe gays and lesbians (same sex attraction) deserve and need their own space where lesbians can be with other lesbians (not bisexuals, women married to men, etc)….

  38. William says

    In the end, bars/clubs are private, for-profit establishments. Whatever atmosphere – inclusionary or exclusionary – manifests itself there will probably be determined by what impacts the establishment’s ability to turn a profit.

    As for me, I will never spend my money or my time in a bar – gay or straight – that set up a culture of exclusion. And, on the dating scene, I would never get together with a guy whose self-image is so low that he needed an exclusive space to make him feel comfortable.

  39. Billy says

    Never had a problem with straight guys in gay bars, straight girls on the other had can be a little pushy. If I’m in your way just say “excuse me” I’ll be more than happy to move. But when you push me, I’ll push you back, even if you are a woman. You are not better than.

  40. petey says

    In theory, there shouldn’t be a bar scene based on sexuality. If people don’t feel comfortable in a bar, they should leave. Easy come, easy go.

  41. petey says

    In all-male bars, men don’t need to compete for a woman. Thus, they tend to be relaxed.

    Women tend to add an element of aggression through their attention-seeking ways as well as through the idea of competition which they introduce (ie highly sexed men competing for lower-sexed women).

    All-male bars – regardless of the sexuality of the male patrons – might be the way to go.

  42. GB says

    Always considered woman in bars dead weight. I was there for the masculine attractions. If straight guys were somehow there, I was always drawn to them by sonar. To discover that they were straight,
    was a kick in the groin of rejected desire. Can’t have that. A false alarm never made anyone’s night. Better to work with the real gay material at hand.

  43. parkrunner says

    I had a boss tell me his wife and her sister went to a gay bar so they could talk without getting hit on. She complained that a couple of guys started making out in the booth next to them and it really grossed them out. The superior look on his face made me yell, “Is she an idiot? Tell your wife not to go to gay bars if she doesn’t want to see guys making out!”. I didn’t stay there long.

  44. Micaloo says

    I’m gay, but I hate going to gay bars, because some people act inappropriately the minute they feel comfortable or safe. I’m fine with fun or flirty or baudy or wild, but some guys get straight up lecherous. Same happens at a couple all gay pool parties. Guys complain about the one girl there, but at least it’s keeping those guys in line.

    Queer spaces and mixed bars are so much better! It seems everyone my age agrees. I’m not bothered at all that some gay bars are closing. Some of us gays feel safer around straight people than we do in exclusively gay bars.

  45. Marlon Manroe says

    Since we have to declare “should” or “shouldn’t” go to gay bars, it makes the discussion somewhat moot. You get to decide what YOU do, not what anyone else does. So if you’re straight, you will make your own choice and rightfully so.

    As long as patrons are respectful and not behaving in ways that are bothersome, it’s no one’s business who patrons the bars.

  46. Chris L. says

    I absolutely think that straight people should stay out of gay bars. I am in NYC, and my favorite bar was “XL” on 16th Street. It was exclusively gay until it was featured on “Sex and the City.” As a result, women started coming in. A LOT of women. The bar immediately went downhill and closed soon thereafter. Gay guys started going somewhere else.

    Unlike straight people, gay men have few spaces where we can hang together. When I go to a gay bar, I want to be with other gay men. I don’t want to be in a room that’s half-filled with “glamour girls” who act like they’re at a bachelorette party. As a sexual minority, we have every right to our own spaces. Let them go elsewhere.

  47. Rick says

    Typical man-hating lesbo attitude. Lesbians were welcomed in gay male bars and discos for decades because they had nowhere else to go…..and certainly nowhere to dance. They have always also been welcomed in gay organizations of every kind founded by gay men.

    But they generally behave with hostility any time any gay man “invades their space”, whether it is a bar or a “womyn’s” music festival or a “womyn’s” anything.

    The one time I went in a lesbian bar, I was asked to leave within ten minutes, even though I did nothing at all to merit it and even though I told the woman who asked me to leave that I was gay.

    I get them not wanting straight men coming into their bars to gawk at them and live out their fantasies, but not wanting gay men among them just underscores what a bunch of man-hating biotches the vast majority of them really are.

  48. Rick says

    “Never had a problem with straight guys in gay bars, straight girls on the other had can be a little pushy”

    They are pushy towards gay men in our own bars and have no qualms about invading gay male bars in droves because they are used to gay men allowing themselves to be pushed around by straight women, generally…..(and worshiping them as “divas” and living vicariously through them, etc.).

    Straight women don’t really respect gay men and certainly don’t regard as as MEN…..but see us rather as they playthings and as a source of amusement.

    I hope one day other gay men realize this and stop having anything to do with these women altogether.

    As for straight guys coming to a gay bar, fine, but don’t act offended if you get cruised or hit on…….you asked for it by coming into a bar where you know the vast majority of men are sexually attracted to other men and on the hunt for them. If that makes you uncomfortable, then you should just leave….

  49. says

    @Chris L. Spot on. We’re a sexual minority and shouldn’t take for granted that gay bars are a place where we can assume that others are also gay. This is an advantage we have in the modern era. As adults we get to have spaces that straights have all their lives. Those who are dismissive of gay bars are the same people who take their loved ones for granted while they’re around or alive but are so sad once they’re gone. Don’t listen to them. They are miserable people and will bring you nothing but misery. @ Micaloo -you are soooo superior because you look down on gay bars.

    I’m sorry to hear about those in other parts of the country that are having these issues with straight people invading your spaces. It’s not really a problem we’ve experienced here in Dallas. Anything can happen though. I think a campaign may need to be started to encourage gay men not to bring their straight friends to gay bars. I don’t buy into the whole “women like to go to gay bars to not get hit on” thing. I think a lot of these women have a hard time saying no to their pushy gay friends. And gay men sometimes like to act like they could be straight and that’s why they like to bring their female friends out with them to show them off. No one’s impressed. Please, when you do your get together with your straight friends go somewhere else. It’s ok to not go out to the gay bars one Friday or Saturday here and there. It’s healthy for you. Go bowling, go watch a movie, go eat chicken wings. Don’t go crowd gays out of our own spaces. It does matter and it can have a negative effect on your gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. It’s not all about you and what you feel like doing.

  50. michael says

    i respectfully disagree.

    it’s about the freedom, right? for everyone. straights should be allowed in our bars as long as they don’t act like jerks. act like a jerk, get asked to leave. queer jerks get asked to leave as well.

    i (a gay man) was introduced to the queer scene by my sister (a lesbian). she brought me up & out by bringing me to dyke bars. i found there a wonderful, fun, amazing, supportive group of women there who didn’t at all mind having a baby fag hanging around. i didn’t act like a jerk, and i wasn’t asked to leave. i learned respect and love for my sisters right out of the box, and i cherish those memories to this day. it would have been a real shame if someone had claimed that as a woman-only space (and had asked me to leave) at that moment.

    is that different than, say, a rowdy dickish bachelor party showing up (and making trouble at a) dyke bar? yes. of course it is.

    one love

    m

  51. crispy says

    “The one time I went in a lesbian bar, I was asked to leave within ten minutes”

    Rick, honey, that wasn’t because you’re male. It’s because lesbians can spot a douchenozzle in seconds.

  52. Tom says

    I want to add, that Freedom of Association goes both ways, for those that like having “gay” bars filled with “non-gay” folks, have at it, goddess blessings on you. Being able to have both choices, open or restricted, is Equality in action. It is also important to take into consideration the difference between public and private types of businesses and organizations. Bars cannot legally restrict entry unless they had a dress code, like leather only, but given our tough economy that is a choice even our local leather bar has eschewed. Hence, we are no longer really a leather bar in the classic definition. The men who depended on that bar as a social refuge now are relegated to certain nights and there is still no guarantee we will have the environment so desired.
    Rather than argue the point, I predict a revival of the Private Club, a legal entity like a 501(c)7 tax exempt nonprofit. Other than race, color or religion, it is permissible to limit membership and recreate the all gay male (or all lesbian) spaces now being assimilated by the invasive patronage discussed in the video.

  53. Tom says

    Not everyone is happy about being herded down the cattle chute of assimilation. Preserving sacred male space, where men can create that special energy of bonding, is dissipated by women and straights. Gay men know this intrinsically, but repress saying anything because of the tyranny of political correctness.

    Equality has been won on the Equal Protection Clause, not the decimation of our unique cultural heritages, be it gay, lesbian or leather.

    Equality was always ours, it is in our Constitution, it was not “given” to us for conforming to any specific mode of behavior or by placing a ‘group think’ upon our Freedom of Association, another important aspect of our rights. Of course, people all need to be treated equally, but not have to be forced into associations of which they have no desire to cultivate. I will not sacrifice one freedom, deciding who I wish to draw close in personal friendships, for the illusion of receiving something in exchange which was already mine to begin with.

    Marriage was simply the singular issue which led the courts to recognize LGBT people as a suspect class, i.e. worthy of a higher standard of judicial review before the State made discriminatory laws against us. This is the basis of why bans on marriage are unconstitutional, not whether we want to have all male bars or clubs. The notion that we must all gather together and sing Kum-ba-ya as we are not so subtly led into heteronormative conformity by Gay, Inc. is shallow and naive.

    I want to add, that Freedom of Association goes both ways, for those that like having “gay” bars filled with “non-gay” folks, have at it, goddess blessings on you. Being able to have both choices, open or restricted, is Equality in action. It is also important to take into consideration the difference between public and private types of businesses and organizations. Bars cannot legally restrict entry unless they had a dress code, like leather only, but given our tough economy that is a choice even our local leather bar has eschewed. Hence, we are no longer really a leather bar in the classic definition. The men who depended on that bar as a social refuge now are relegated to certain nights and there is still no guarantee we will have the environment so desired.

    Rather than argue the point, I predict a revival of the Private Club, a legal entity like a 501(c)7 tax exempt nonprofit. Other than race, color or religion, it is permissible to limit membership and recreate the all gay male (or all lesbian) spaces now being assimilated by the invasive patronage discussed in the video.

  54. Kurtis Edwards says

    In my town (Omaha) the biggest complaint I have about straight people on our gay club is the wedding parties. It’s just careless and a bit insensitive to see girls bring their whole wedding party to the gay club. WE CANNOT GET MARRIED IN NEBRASKA… um… don’t rub it in.

  55. Sergio says

    “…and it seems unlikely that someone so antigay would be in a gay bar in the first place.”

    You sound terribly naïve. Some straight men will go wherever their girlfriends take them. Please actually visit a gay bar once in your life, before making such silly statements.

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