Comments

  1. Jonathan says

    I read the excerpt in the NY Times and I didn’t much care about the complaints but now that I’ve done more research I think her publisher should pull the book, he NYTimes should issue an apology and retraction and it should basically be wiped from existence. Everbody know the equal rights campaign is an epic fail and has been for years, their main issue for 20 years being ENDA, which still hasn’t passed. In fact, THEY put marriage on the backburner, not anybody else. The book is just PR and it’s a piece of unadulterated feces.

    David Mixner should be ashamed of himself and he shouldn’t post her anymore.

  2. GB says

    The book would not be so disparaged if accurate gay history, before Stonewall, was respected or acknowledged. How would she know? Mixner is correct, the clique involved with not be remembered. And you can throw that straight anti-bully cock tease on the heap too. Enjoy your marriages!

  3. GB says

    The book would not be so disparaged if accurate gay history, before Stonewall, was respected or acknowledged. How would she know? Mixner is correct, the clique involved with not be remembered. And you can throw that straight anti-bully cock tease on the heap too. Enjoy your marriages!

  4. rick says

    History is always written based on the viewpoint of the historians. Ancient history was written without that many critics. In the absence of social media and internet, every historian wrote their own history. The “complete” history is always the cobbling together of many pieces.

  5. Tina says

    Savage should confine his s-it to the bedroom. Even if this book is an effort to discredit the origins of the movement, I’m sure the true story is teaming with s-it, to quote Dan.

  6. Tina says

    Savage should confine his s-it to the bedroom. Even if this book is an effort to discredit the origins of the movement, I’m sure the true story is teaming with s-it, to quote Dan.

  7. Tina says

    Savage should confine his s-it to the bedroom. Even if this book is an effort to discredit the origins of the movement, I’m sure the true story is teaming with s-it, to quote Dan.

  8. jimbo says

    I have not read the article but marriage was legalized in Massachusetts in 2004 first state to do so I my add and it was a big equal rites deal I was married in 2007 as a result I am tired of California’s prop 8 over shadowing that fact is as always Massachusetts got the thing started just like in 1776

  9. GB says

    I live in California, but was raised in Massachusetts Rode on the gay Mayflower. Thank you for reminding them Jimbo!

  10. petey says

    Dan Savage is being a sensitive Sally. It’s only a book and one woman’s opinion. There are bigger fish to fry.

  11. simon says

    Jimbo:
    Is that a bit narrow to confine it to the US?
    Netherlands was the first. Even some part of Canada was before Massachusetts.

  12. simon says

    I also find it strange why it is such a big deal. Is it some kind of turf war? No one is going to write a history to satisfy every critic. If is still OK if that is just an opinion. A protest is a bit too dramatic.

  13. PaulinPA says

    Ms Becker has certainly been doing the media tour: NPR {twice}, New York Times, New Yorker, NBC News, MSNBC, etc etc –
    yet the book is hovering around 1,000 to 1,500 on Amazon. Most books with that sort of publicity would be well below 100 on Amazon and B&N. In another few weeks this book will be last years news – it’s already dead in the water.
    Someone really screwed up!

  14. simon says

    Paulinpa:
    May be it is the subject. Not many people are interested in gay stuff. I won’t buy a book talking about subjects I am not interested in. Even popular textbooks are well below 10000. I guess 1500 is OK financially speaking.

  15. simon says

    Historically DOMA is probably more important than prop 8. She chose to write on prop 8 only. As she herself stated. It is not history. She just want to cash in on the story. It is more famous and got more media attention because of the lawyers involved.

  16. kurt says

    To all those planning to attend that protest: what a f*cking waste of time. Choose your battles. If you really want to discredit this book, then ignore it, let it die. You’re only fueling sales of the book and publicity for the author

  17. Joe in Ct says

    A book signing protest by elite gay men, oh boy! Can you imagine the clashing of egos and self-burnished halos at that gathering?

  18. Rick says

    I don’t know much about the book–and don’t know why any gay man would be surprised that a woman, straight or gay, would give them the shaft (no pun intended)……

    …..but I will say this: It is undeniably true that the gay movement languished for decades with virtually no real victories to speak of, whether it came to DADT or job discrimination or same-sex marriage…..UNTIL STRAIGHT MEN in healthy numbers began to advocate for change.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I am not discounting the efforts of the gay people, including myself, who labored for years to change things……but I am saying that it was always the case that until the male culture began to change in such a way that men, in general, would see something in the gay movement that would accrue to their own self-interest……that no progress was ever going to be made.

    Many gay men who are ensconced in the culture of effeminacy do not want to acknowledge this, because they wrongly have seen feminists and women in general as our friends–which they are not (which is why nothing changed for decades despite their supposed “support”)….and men as our enemies, when the opposite is actually the case, as we are finally beginning to see…..

  19. Brian1 says

    @Rick

    Most gay men see women as our supporters not because we are “ensconced in the culture of effeminacy” but because we can read. The last thousand polls on this subject have shown a much stronger support for gay rights among women than men. Every single time, no exception. I’ve brought this up to you dozens of times as you cut and paste your usual crazy talk and you never acknowledge this. I understand why, because it undermines your whole theory that you’ve been espousing since the dawn of time. So you keep saluting all those straight men who led the movement for gay marriage while the reality based community knows otherwise.

  20. simon says

    Rick:
    What are you talking about? 3 out of the 5 votes for DOMA were provided by women in the Supreme Court. 2 out of 5 were provided by women for Prop 8. Note that they form only a minority in the court.

  21. Rick says

    @BRIAN1 Anybody can tell a pollster anything. Women “support” gay men in a condescending way……they are NOT willing to accept gay men as MEN, but only as playthings and fops and social inferiors, who keep them entertained and provide useful services to them. That is what the “support” is based on…..

    But that is not the kind of “support” that will ever get us full integration into society, respected as the MEN we are, rather than tolerated and condescended to as pseudo-women (with inferior status to real women).

    The only thing that WILL get us full integration into society is for us to be respected AS MEN…..and as that is beginning to happen, you are seeing a backlash among women, who have become the most strident voices among homophobes, here in the US and abroad…..and I see no reason to think that trend will not continue.

    I cannot help it if you cannot see deeper than the surface and I hope this comment helps you–and others–to do so….

  22. Brian1 says

    @Rick

    I know I’m irritating others by replying to you because you really are a lost cause and I know I’m not supposed to feed the trolls. But just dismissing countless polls that show the exact opposite of what you’re espousing is really the province of the lunatic fringe. And saying that straight men have led the fight for marriage equality, and now that women have led the anti gay movement around the world is just beyond stupid. Really, read a newspaper someday. You’re so wrapped up in your anti woman crusade that you’ve blocked out any actual evidence, all of which contradicts everything you believe in.

  23. simon says

    Rick:
    “condescending” support or “respectful” support is still support. For example, when it comes to a vote for lifting marriage bans in the south, a vote is still a vote. They don’t write the word “condescending” on the ballot.

  24. rick says

    The other day, I told you guys I want to have a sex-change. I can assure you that there is no contradiction here. I hate myself as a gay man. I also will hate myself as a “straight” woman.

  25. Rick says

    @SIMON and BRIAN1 One thing you are overlooking is that all these legal and political battles are not gender-specific. They benefit lesbians as well as gay men and so you cannot say that because women support them, they are sympathetic to gay men, specifically.

    It is counter-intuitive to think that women welcome a change in the male culture that will allow men greater freedom with each other emotionally and sexually and make them less dependent on–or totally independent of–women…..because that cuts into their (women’s ) social power.

    We are in the midst of a process of change, so I don’t expect everybody to be able to see clearly what is really happening, but it is the decision on the part of straight men to begin to eradicate homophobia from the male culture that is driving the REAL social change that we are seeing….and their motivation in doing so is a desire for their own liberation from dependence on women…..whether you like it or not….

  26. Rick says

    @SIMON and BRIAN1 One thing you are overlooking is that all these legal and political battles are not gender-specific. They benefit lesbians as well as gay men and so you cannot say that because women support them, they are sympathetic to gay men, specifically.

    It is counter-intuitive to think that women welcome a change in the male culture that will allow men greater freedom with each other emotionally and sexually and make them less dependent on–or totally independent of–women…..because that cuts into their (women’s ) social power.

    We are in the midst of a process of change, so I don’t expect everybody to be able to see clearly what is really happening, but it is the decision on the part of straight men to begin to eradicate homophobia from the male culture that is driving the REAL social change that we are seeing….and their motivation in doing so is a desire for their own liberation from dependence on women…..whether you like it or not….

  27. rick says

    As I said, I can see below the surface. I can see things no one can see. My doctor told me I have mental problem. He said those visions were hallucinations. I still think my doctor was wrong. People like to ask me : “On what planet do you spend most of your time?”

  28. RonCharles says

    Kurt is right. The best thing to do if you do not like this book is to ignore it. If there are assertions made in the work that you do not like, then, write an article, with adequate documentation, showing just why they are false. However, demonstrating against a book smacks strongly of totalitarian censorship.

  29. Molc says

    So wait these people didn’t protest Chick-Fil-A or Liberty Counsel or NOM, but they choose to protest this because a book doesn’t have their names in it? Or in the case of Sullivan it doesn’t pander to the right wing causes he agrees with? Write your own book. When you combine rampant narcissism with too much time on your hands, this is inevitably/unfortunately the result.

  30. Dave says

    Savage can be an incredible speaker and he can be a complete off-putting jack@$$. In this case, it is the latter. He ticks off 5 bloggers who don’t like the book and declares that it has been “universally condemned”. What rubbish. I look forward to reading it.

    Does it focus too much on the AFER team? I have no doubt. She had access to that team and is covering that part of the story.

    That is what the book is – a recounting of one aspect of the marriage equality story. She isn’t going to give equal coverage to the 1998 ballot fight in Hawaii or the 2006 ballot measure in Wisconsin because that isn’t her focus. Other books can and should be written about those aspects of the fight. And there should also be a book about all the self-described “queers” who did everything they could to undermine and sabotage marriage equality. They were perfectly happy to inflict injury on LGB families in order to pursue their ideological agenda.

  31. Arrow says

    Savage is a sleeze disguised as a savior. Would a true account of events be more damaging? And the paranoid Blog writer swallows all– genius perspective born in ’69. Maybe WWIII will inject a little reality.

  32. TonyC says

    Dan: I’m spring cleaning & I have some cute Tshirts that would look good on you .. Boring white Tshirts belong in preschool. I’m not kidding about this offer.. I’ll leave them with my doorman/ you let me know

    Tony( NYC)

  33. Arnie says

    Who wants to have sex with peanut butter and jelly lube? Grow up Dan. I agree with TonyC about the T-shirts.

  34. mcgill says

    I have this funny feeling that Rick is that sh*tbard Robert Oscar Lopez.

    Omg, it just, wait…. It’s him.

  35. says

    After the recent Trans bandwagon and Pro-Prep witch hunts, I’m going to read the book and make up my own mind. To say that there isn’t an elite, wealthy faction out there pulling the strings would be inaccurate. Dan Savage makes me wretch.

  36. meMike says

    “Forcing the Spring,” by the Pulitzer Prize-winning Jo Becker, now an investigative reporter for The New York Times, comes out alongside Jason Pierceson’s “Same-Sex Marriage in the United States,” and follows a Kindle single, “To Have and Uphold,” by The Times’s Supreme Court correspondent, Adam Liptak. The Perry superlawyers Theodore B. Olson and David Boies will publish their own book in June.

  37. William says

    It’s so wonderful to see so few serious issues out there that we can afford to step back and expend all of our energy and time protesting a book.

  38. Jess says

    We are forgetting the famous gay first date night slogan, “If it doesn’t fit, force it!!” Did the tile evolve from this?

  39. Merv says

    I’m sick of people saying that losing the Prop 8 vote was some sort of victory in disguise. It wasn’t. It was a huge setback. If we had won, as we should have, it would have heralded a sea-change in the electoral politics of marriage equality. As it was, we had to wait until the 2012 victories in Maine, Maryland, Washington state, and Minnesota. Those four states were the real game changers, not California.

  40. Jess says

    The “victors” can’t afford the suggestion of any discord in this remarkable achievement.