Iraq Conflict Longer than U.S. Involvement in WWII

Bush_iraq

The Nation: “The war in Iraq has lasted three days longer than US involvement in World War II…We’ve been in Iraq one thousand, two hundred and forty-seven days—and still the Administration has no exit strategy, no plan for victory and no clue what it is doing.”

Watch the video of today’s White House press conference…

Bush: “The strategy is to help the Iraqi people achieve the objectives and dreams which is a democratic society. That’s the strategy. The tactics — now — either you say yes it’s important we stay there and get it done or we leave. We’re not leaving so long as I’m the president. That would be a huge mistake. It would send an unbelievably you know terrible signal to reformers across the region. It would say we’ve abandoned our desire to change the conditions that create terror.”

Meanwhile, other Republicans have differing opinions:

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE): “The Iraqi people have already made some decisions here. We, in fact, are in probably a low-grade — maybe a very defined — civil war. You’ve got corruption. Everywhere. As bad as it’s ever been. You’ve got uncontrollables that we can’t control. We can’t deal with. Iran probably has more influence in Iraq than we do at this point.”

Bush also said today that Iraq had “nothing” to do with 9/11, though in the weeks leading up to the war that was not necessarily the case.

Democracy is on the march!

(screencap via wonkette)

Comments

  1. ho4mo says

    Watched the idiot hold his press conference this morning. Is it humanly possible for a person to become more stupid as time progresses? Because I really think Bush has lost some IQ points since stealing the White House.

    We have now been living in the Twilight Zone for six years!

  2. jimmyboyo says

    per 2 members of the 9/11 comission who have just written a book detailing many thinsg about the 9/11 comission……….

    The arab world does NOT hate us because of our freedom and democracy. They hate us for our unbalanced support of sirael to the tune of $3 billion american tax payers’ dollars a year + bombs, rockets, and missles. The same bombs rockets and missles that israel used to kill about 900 lebanese 90%+civillians (women and children)

    Bush just does not get it, nor does most of america. Till we do, we will be dealing with this crap for a very long time.

  3. Ted B. (Charging Rhino) says

    Comparing WWII to the WoT, is apples and oranges. And the “exit strategy” for WWII was crushing the “nations” of Germany and Japan into dust; regardless of the number of German or Japanese casualities…or for that matter even of our “aliies”. The WoT has a self-imposed requirement for a level of “finesse”; primarily driven by our selfish need to be able to sleep at night. Our “opponents” in the WoT share a morality that would make a fervent Nazi have second-thoughts and many a restless night. The Islamofascist sleeps-soundly in the embrace of Allah the Merciful regardless of the blood, the terror, or the moral-lawlessness of his acts.

  4. jimmyboyo says

    ted

    how do you war on a tactic?

    A tactic that has been utilized by mankind!!!!! all of humanity since the dawn of time

    especialy when not 1 iraqi was part of 9/11….15 of the 19 hijackers were saudis and not 1 iraqi, Osama is running around free, etc etc etc

    free yourself from the cult

  5. Marco says

    I’ll have to take Think Progresses word on his answer regarding 9/11 and Iraq because I simply cannot stand to watch him speak for any length of time.

    i hope the Dems win the senate this fall, find their long-lost balls and Impeach this disgrace.

    I know it’s wishful thinking.

  6. JT says

    Ted B: You’re absolutely right! The WOT is a different ballgame than WWII. It’s a war against amorphic, not politically recognized entities. WWII was a war against nations with politically recognized leaders…LIKE IRAQ!

  7. jimmyboyo says

    marco that would be great

    But if the dems only take the house, a deffinite while the senate is not as mush a sure thing, then the house can call for trials/ investiogations.

    The senate has the power to impeach, but the house can call for investigations, which if the american public is flooded with the zillions of criminal acts that bush and his cohorts have comitted, would drive the american public to push even their repub senators to impeach.

    I would love both houses in dem hands, but I will be satisfied with a strong majority in the house (for now till 2008)

  8. Ted B. (Charging Rhino) says

    Re: Tread, I’m already past the retirement-age for the military…and it was illegal for openly gay men to sign-up when I was of ROTC-age; with no easy DADT honorable-discahrge either. I thought about the military, but I’m wasn’t about to volunteer to be a felon.

  9. jimmyboyo says

    no, chris

    the house has the power to indict, the senate per the constitution has the power to impeach

    impeach= remove from office

    Think as the house as the prosecutors and the senate as the judge and jury

  10. Zeke says

    Ted, you’re right, comparing WWII to the WoT (as you refer to it) IS like comparing apples to oranges but NO MORE than comparing the War in Iraq to the WoT! The fact of the matter is the war in Iraq is a distraction FROM the WoT (Afghanistan) and could be more accurately referred to as The War that CREATED More Terror.

    As for your yellow elephant excuse for why you never served in the military, I’m not buying it. I served in the USMC and reserves for 12 years (including a tour in Desert Storm), some before and some after DADT. I’m afraid the more accurate response to the question of why you didn’t serve in the military would be the same as MOST other yellow hawk patriots; in spite of your ad nauseam support for all things military and all things war, your ACTUAL support doesn’t stretch one inch past your keyboard. You are only willing to support this, and EVERY other war, as long as it doesn’t cause you ANY discomfort or inconvenience you in ANY way.

    Few things, REALLY piss me off but you’ve pushed one of my buttons. Frankly, I have ZERO respect or tolerance for pro-war hawks who have never served a day in the military. We have far too many of them at the highest levels of our government (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice etc.) and we have far too many of them playing cheerleader from behind their recording studio microphones (Toby Keith), TV cameras (O’Reilly, Kristol, Carlson etc.) and keyboards (You, Drudge, the Yellow Elephants over at GayPatriot etc., etc., etc.). The disastrous result is 2,600+ dead and thousands of permanently injured American kids plus hundreds of thousands of dead and injured Iraqis. All because of a few peoples’ egos and political strategy and their willingness to deceive the American people, and sacrifice so many lives, just to “accomplish” their shameful plan.

    Here’s a newsflash for you and ALL the other chicken hawks: Getting the high score on “Mortal Combat” does not make you a combat veteran. Getting an X-Box Purple Heart, Bronze Star or Medal of Honor does NOT make you a hero. Supporting an unjust and illegal war that was waged with egos and lies does NOT make you a patriot and it does NOT take one ounce of courage.

    I always try to be respectful and polite, however if you want to see me lose my religion just keep beating that war drum while giving p*ssy excuses as to why you were unable or unwilling to make the sacrifices for your country that you expect and demand of others.

  11. Ted B. (Charging Rhino) says

    Being a non-veteran does not disqualify one as a citizen; at least not in this country….yet. You don’t like it, go hump-yourself to Vensuela and it’s comfy military-friendly dictatorship.

    It was not my choice…it was the policy of the United States government; it was not an issue of a deferment, it was the law. I should have broken the law to protect the law? Perjured myself from day-one? Lied for my security-clearances? Served every day knowing I was an unindicted-felon?

    It’s easy to be critical now, but from the perspective of the mid-1970’s there was no “honorable” course of action. By their own rules I was ineligible to serve….that’s MY FAULT? Go grind your axe on someone who was eligible. I’m not buying any of your angst….

  12. blynn says

    Ted,
    If there was a law that said you could not be homosexual and hold a job would you never work or try to earn a living? If a law is unjust it is our duty to disobey it. I think that would include joining the military and not telling then your sexuality if you feel so strongly about fighting in Iraq or elsewhere.

  13. Zeke says

    In Ted’s twisted world I (as a gay veteran) am a dirty felon while HE is a law abiding patriot.

    This is the same Rovian world where Bush is a war hero and patriot while Kerry is a dishonorable, draft dodging, terrorist supporting, America hating coward; and lies are truths; and war is peace; and shame is honor; and fear is security; and up is down; and black is white…

    Ted, I hope you have a hair color that goes with the yellow stripe down your back.

  14. Zeke says

    “Charging Rhino”? HA! I missed that part earlier. That is friggin hilarious!

    I picture Ted to be more like the doe eyed hippopotamus wearing a pink tutu and sportin’ a polka dot bow in her hair; like the one pictured on my seven year old niece’s lunchbox.

    “Charging Rhino”. That’s rich!

  15. says

    Comparing WWI and the WoT? War is war and war is hell. In WWII we fought to give people independence from a dictator who was intent on extending his borders and used genocide. How is that different from Iraq? True in WWII our incentive was the fact that our own ancestry stemmed from Europe. In today’s war, we don’t quite have that. The cynics say it’s for the oil. Yet today I paid $62.50 to fill up the tank on my truck.

    The statement of this post is misleading in the first. Last time I checked, we still had Armed Forces in Japan, Korea, and Germany. American troops were still hunting down and fight Nazi’s ten years after Victory in Europe was declared. Does anyone actually still believe that the United States will completely remove each and every one of her troops from the country of Iraq? When I was there in ’04, we were building permanent barracks on old Iraqi military posts.

    Ted, not serving because you are gay is a cop out. Many have served and many continue to do so. One of my good friends just retired this year, after 25 years in the service. My partner and I still serve.

    Zeke, you an I may not always agree, but thank you for your service.

  16. Zeke says

    With ALL due respect RED, we didn’t declare war on Germany because Hitler was a brutal dictator. We attacked Germany because it (not she) was taking over Europe, attacking our allies, publicly declaring its desire for world domination and was becoming a clear and present threat to the United States, its people and its interests.

    Iraq did not pose ANY of these threats. The one threat that Saddam once posed was when he invaded Kuwait. We rightfully dealt with that situation with Desert Storm, a war which I supported and in which I served.

    Let’s not forget that many more people are killed and tortured yearly in Iraq since the invasion than any year prior to the invasion. If we are justifying and legitimizing this war by claiming that we are saving the Iraqi people from death, torture and destruction, then our justification seems hollow and illegitimate and we better start looking for yet ANOTHER, new-and-improved reason for the invasion.

    Secondly, the President did not take us into this war with ANY of the reasons that you listed above. In case you forgot, the reasoning was ENTIRELY focused on WMDs, (nuclear/chemical/biological weapons proliferation) and a supposed connection with 9/11. All of these things, had they been true, would have posed a clear a present danger to America and would have been a very legitimate reason for invasion. However, the FACT (as stated by the POTUS in his press conference yesterday) that EACH and EVERY one of these claims were false (and, by the way, were KNOWN to be false by this administration, even when they were using them to promote the war) COMPLETELY changed my, and many others’, support for this war and for this administration’s poorly strategized and implemented “WoT” in general. I do not support ANYONE I can’t trust. Thankfully, now that I am no longer in the military, I don’t have to.

    If the President had presented his case for war with Iraq truthfully, with the reasons that you presented above, and Congress and the American people had approved of it, THAT would have been totally different. I would have grudgingly supported this action even though I don’t believe, as the President said in his last debate in 2000, that the American military should be used for “nation building” or should be used to police the world.

    If we are now, retrospectively, going to change our reasoning for why we went into the war in Iraq and claim that we were just deposing a brutal dictator who had terrorized his people, then we owe an sincere apology to the peoples of Cuba, Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China and ALL the other countries who are run by supreme and oppressive leaders. We had also better institute the draft IMMEDIATELY.

    RED, I honor you and your partner for your courageous service to our country. I, unlike Ted, consider you to be a patriot and not a felon. I respect your opinions, even though I disagree with some of them. I recognize and realize how hard it is to consider that a mission, for which you risk your life, may be less than honorable. That is one of the things that MOST angers me about the current situation.

    I will pray daily for you and your partner’s safety in these times of war. I will also fight daily for an end to this war.

    Take care my Brother.

    Peace.

  17. says

    When the heat has leached all the water from your body and the salt that has been sucked from your skin makes tie-died patterns on both your t-shirt and your blouse and sand had rubbed creases into your ass crack for days, “why” we went to war matters very little. It is seeing that Iraqi boy smile, having a young Iraqi girl thank you, seeing a grown man, a father, cry with happiness. To the soldier, that is what we see. That is what matters.
    We have it very, very good in this country. To work to improve the rest of the world, with food donations to starving countries or with arms against harsh dictators, we do what we must.
    There are many reasons to disagree with me. Thats just how I feel.

  18. Zeke says

    WHY we went to war ALWAYS matters! Especially when the WHY involves deception and the planning and promotion involves incompetence (from the leaders, not from the soldiers).

    The reality is, Iraq had smiling boys and girls and fathers crying with happiness BEFORE we invaded Red. Probably many more than they do now and they weren’t smiling amidst the rubble of their bombed out homes or Mosques or with the constant stench of death in the air. They weren’t smiling amidst the DAILY rounds to pick up the 100’s of tortured, lifeless bodies from the streets.

    This little girl of whom you speak saying “Thank You”; how little is she? What is she thanking the soldiers for? If she’s “little” it is highly unlikely that she is personally familiar with Saddam Hussein and therefore she must be thanking you for doing something other than deposing the brutal dictator. The thanks that soldiers get is often a thanks for saving them from a situation that the war CREATED.

    “…arms AGAINST harsh dictators…”

    Red, I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember the overthrow of the Shah of Iran, the subsequent hostage crisis and the US/Iranian relationship that followed.

    Who do you think supplied Saddam Hussein with the WMDs (that we now so fear) and the technology to make more WMDs? I’ll give you a hint: the weapons were intended to be used by OUR grudging ally Saddam Hussein against OUR enemy, Iran. They were intended to be used, and WERE used MOST effectively in killing Iranians by the millions.

    Let’s give credit where credit is due. The American CIA brokered this biological and chemical arms deal in the late 70’s, when GEORGE H. W. BUSH was CIA Chief.

    Eventually these weapons were used against the Kurds, became a threat to the entire region and eventually became a threat to us.

    It’s quite a stretch to claim that, in the case of the rise and fall of Saddam Hussein, WE are the heroes.

  19. says

    The little girl is seventeen. Her father was imprisoned and tortured by Saddam. We brought him home. We also help to sponser her older brother to attend Kansas city medical school, to become a doctor, to return to Iraq. Their home was not bombed out. Insurrgents did try to bomb it later on, with an improvised Molotov cocktail, because her father decided to help the Americans, but we helped stop that too. She had to quit the university, because of the kidnapping ring in Tikrit who was kidnapping for profit, a common business in the Middle East and Africa. We put a stop to that too.
    There was no “stench of death in the air” for the year I lived there. I am aware of the fallout of Iran, more than you know or that I can say. I am aware that Saddam used to be our ally. But we can’t just pull out. We can’t leave that country to fall into (worst) chaos. We can only do what we can. We could do more with international support. But the world today is in flames. Darfor, Somlia, Tamil Tigers, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Isreal, Lebanon, al Queada. Do we give up, close our borders and hope for the best, or do we continue to try to improve upon our situations?

  20. Zeke says

    We improve no one’s situation by further destabilizing the Middle East. Saddam Hussein was an evil bastard but the Iraqi people are under a greater threat of death, torture and violence now than they were four years ago.

    Red, can you honestly say that the OVER ALL situation in Iraq is better than it was four years ago? Do you honestly believe that the average Iraqi is better off now than they were four years ago? Do you honestly believe that the region is more stable than it was four years ago?

    I can’t imagine how you could.

    The sad thing about it is you’re right. We CAN’T just pull out of Iraq. We also can’t just NOT pull out of Iraq. We have CREATED a hopeless situation that no amount of money, resolve or American lives can solve. The country will be destroyed when we leave. That will be the case if we leave tomorrow or if we leave ten years and 20 thousand American lives from now.

    WE have caused this hopeless situation and regardless of our real or perceived intentions, WE will forever be remembered for the calamity that we foisted upon the country and people of Iraq.

  21. Zeke says

    Red, I won’t continue to debate the merits of this war with you because I respect you too much and I am VERY aware of the position that this discussion puts you in. It is difficult to consider that a mission that you have committed your blood, sweat, tears and possibly your life to may have been flawed in its rationale, inception and/or planning. I am also VERY aware of the propaganda that a soldier is exposed to within the military, especially during a conflict. During DS in Kuwait the only non-military news show we were allowed to watch was Fox News.

    I hope we can at least agree that we don’t want to set a precedence that it’s OK to start a war by misleading the American people in hopes that our suspicions MAY later be realized or in hopes that the outcome will justify the lies that started it or that once a war is started (no matter how or why) and once we have destroyed the infrastructure of an enemy we must stay the course because it is inappropriate to question a leader or a war once it is started and it is considered “cutting and running” to walk away from a failed military campaign no matter how many or how much circumstances change.

    Did we learned nothing from Vietnam?

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