Former NBA Star Tim Hardaway: “I Hate Gay People”

Reacting to former NBA player John Amaechi’s recent coming out of the closet, former NBA Miami Heat player Tim Hardaway told a sports radio host today that he unequivocally hates gay people, that they shouldn’t be in the world. Hardaway made the comments in an interview with Dan Le Batard of 790 the Ticket when asked about how he would deal with someone like Amaechi on his team:

Hardaway“First of all I wouldn’t want him on my team. Second of all, if he was on my team I would really distance myself from him because I don’t think that’s right and I don’t think he should be in the locker room while we’re in the locker room.”

After Le Batard pointed out that the former point guard was being “flatly homophobic”, Hardaway continued:

“Well, you know, I hate gay people. I let it be known, I don’t like gay people. I don’t like to be around gay people.”

“Yeah, I’m homophobic. I don’t like it. It shouldn’t be in the world, or in the United States. So, yeah, I don’t like it.”

The NBA, for whom Hardaway had been making public appearances, immediately removed him from further appearances, saying: “It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours.”

According to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel: “Hardaway was listed Tuesday as an “NBA Legend” when the league launched its NBA FIT program at the YMCA of Southern Nevada and had been part of the NBA’s Community Caravan leading up to Sunday’s All-Star Game in Las Vegas. Hardaway played for the Heat from 1996 to 2001 and remains the franchise’s all-time leader in assists. His NBA career began in 1989 and ended in 2003. Amaechi played in the NBA from 1995 to 2003, but never as a Hardaway teammate.”

Hardaway’s agent had no immediate comment.

UPDATE: Hardaway later apologized for his comments during an interview with Miami’s WSVN. Said Hardaway: “Yes, I regret it. I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have said I hate gay people or anything like that,” he said. “That was my mistake.”

(video) Tim Hardaway comments.

Comments

  1. Aaron says

    Wow, his future advertising deals are completely DOA. What a dumbass.

    Absolutely no reason whatsoever to use a racial slur against him, though. That’s just simply innapropriate.

  2. says

    Wow, it’s amazing that attitudes like this, so cut and dry can not only still be believed, but espoused so freely.

    And it wasn’t that long ago that people of his ilk were, in some parts of the country, told to keep their eyes down, walk on the other side of the street when a person of a different color was walking on the same side, and told that they were less than those around them.

    Amazing how some things change, and some just seem to stay the same. I guess there will always be some people who don’t grow.

  3. D-2 says

    “And it wasn’t that long ago that people of his ilk were, in some parts of the country, told to keep their eyes down, walk on the other side of the street when a person of a different color was walking on the same side, and told that they were less than those around them.”

    I agree. Its amazing. All over the internet in gay websites, gays don’t want to date or love people of more “ethnic” races let alone associate themselves with asianic or african people for reason. It all begins with simply establishing territories…

  4. Craig says

    D-2 said, “All over the internet in gay websites, gays don’t want to date or love people of more “ethnic” races let alone associate themselves with asianic or african people for reason. It all begins with simply establishing territories…”

    Ummm, what?!?

  5. M says

    Somebody is gonna get a stern talking to from GLAD… I see REHAB in his future… I love when these dumb asses step in there own shit… then wonder what the hell happened.

  6. M says

    “It shouldn’t be in the world, or in the United States. So, yeah, I don’t like it.”

    Frickin moron. What planet does he think the U.S. is on. More rope please.

  7. soulbrotha says

    @D-2

    I don’t understand what you were trying to say either. Can you please explain it to me too?

  8. Tom Mulroney says

    D2, I’ll second Craig’s comment. If you’re going to attempt to express an opinion, at least make it a bit cogent.

  9. D-2 says

    My post was mainly aimmed at Dave. According to Dave, Hardaway’s ancestry/ethnicity must be bought into discussion simply because he doesn’t like gay people. The man’s an illogical asshole but why does Dave need to say “”And it wasn’t that long ago that people of his ilk were, in some parts of the country, told to keep their eyes down, walk on the other side of the street when a person of a different color was walking on the same side, and told that they were less than those around them.”

    It was completely unnecessary especially when our great tolerant gay community isn’t so open-minded when it comes to interracial relationships and sometimes friendships. There’s been reports of blacks and asians being denied entry to clubs and bars and there’s even been reports of anti-black slurs being slugged around in the Castro.

    The point is is that no one should make these judgements (that whoever should be more tolerant simply because of past injustices) because of things they can’t change such as race, religion, sex, maybe even circumcision, etc, when no community is free of shameful conduct.

  10. D-2 says

    Did that make sense?

    Jeez….I don’t want this to turn into the “D-2 explain’s it all” thread…

    😛

  11. xavier says

    I can’t believe this. That a public figure (and supposedly a role model) would come out and say something like this is incredible. He’ll probably add up that it’s in the bible, so he was just stating a ‘fact’. Homophobia in the locker room is alive and kicking.

  12. Norm says

    Imagine it this way…. “First of all I wouldn’t want him on my team. Second of all, if he was on my team I would really distance myself from him because I don’t think that’s right and I don’t think he should be in the locker room when we’re in the locker room.”

    “Well, you know, I hate black people. I let it be known, I don’t like black people. I don’t like to be around black people.”

    “Yeah, I’m racist. I don’t like it. They shouldn’t be in the world, or in the United States. So, yeah, I don’t like it.”

    Headline news all over the country. Violence. Death threats. And Tim Hardaway would be right there. What a neanderthal.

    I will never understand how members of a group who have suffered hatred and oppression for centuries can so quickly and easily subject others to that same hatred and oppression.

  13. A Different View says

    So for all of you who thought the Texas radio station shouldn’t be able to fire a gay DJ who didn’t represent their views, do you think it’s okay for the NBA to terminate their relationship with this clown because of his views?

    (And please don’t bend over backwards to far while avoiding the obvious inconsistency in your position.)

    To refresh your memory:
    http://www.towleroad.com/2007/01/gay_san_antonio.html

  14. A Different View says

    > Wow, his future advertising deals are completely DOA.

    I agree. And this is a sign of the tremendous progress we’ve made. Please keep that in mind the next time you hear someone say how much worse things are getting for us gays. They have lost perspective.

  15. says

    Why is anybody shocked about what Tim Hardaway said in reference to gay people? He is just expressing in public what most athletes say in private. He is just that candid….or that dumb. Now he is apologizing. But why? Is it because he all of a sudden stopped hating gays? Or because he realized that his candor/dumbness has cast him as a bigot and therefore can cost him money in the form of TV gigs, endorsements etc?

  16. Tom Mulroney says

    A Different View,

    Sorry, but your attempt to compare the firing of a small time DJ who stated on his MySpace page that it wasn’t anyone’s business who he slept with, to a famous former NBA star (and hired spokesperson for the NBA) being fired for publicly espousing hatred for gays in no uncertain terms, is ridiculous.

    If you’re trying to make some deep point about a perceived double standard, you’ll have to do a lot better than that.

  17. Tom Mulroney says

    Lourdes,

    You’re right…just read the apology. What a joke. Next thing you know, he’ll be off to “therapy” with Isaiah. How pathetic.

  18. A Different View says

    > “Sorry, but your attempt to compare the firing of a small time DJ who stated on his MySpace page that it wasn’t anyone’s business who he slept with, to a famous former NBA star (and hired spokesperson for the NBA) being fired for publicly espousing hatred for gays in no uncertain terms, is ridiculous.”

    The common issue is whether an employer has the freedom to fire an employee for publicly expressing views with which the employer disagrees, in cases where the employee’s job involves representing the employer before the public in some substantial way.

  19. CC says

    1. what he said was something that someone is uneducated and homophobic would say
    2. apparently he doesn’t know or have any out gay friends or family memebers; especially gay white friends
    3. grab your pearls – what gets me is how someone can equate what he said, which is totally inappropriate, with the African American experience in history. nope can’t do it. you see being black and gay – gbm – gets you a two for one racism card. many white gays don’t associate with str8 or gay blacks and are usually racists to blacks and to gay blacks. don’t get me wrong, preference for who you date is one thing but totally not socializing with a group of people because you “choose” not to is another. i take the movie that i don’t like – love! valour! compassion! – it’s totally white. not one of the eight has any gay black friends (maybe i’m stretching this a bit – it’s just a movie and doesn’t immate real life).
    4. what if a white str8 guy said the exact same words – what would the comeback be for that person – race wouldn’t be an issue – and it should not be because one black person says something wrong against gays

    when a gay person, especially a gay white person (assuming here), says something to the effect that his kind use to…. says a ton to me…instead of saying our horrible history had a time where blacks in this country were treated worse than second class citizens and for he as an individual to take that tone given one of our bleak moments in history is somewhat ironic; still a stretch since there are some gay clubs, bars, and spas that make it known (with clever ways too) that blacks are not wanted there in 2007.

    it use to be we were all in this together. was stonewall only blacks, was it only whites? i don’t know, i have to read about that. when was the last time you saw an advertising photo portraiting two gay black men as a loving couple in a gay white magazine? and logo broke ground with a majority gay black character driven story and some latinos only to be cancelled after 2 seasons; there is a rumor that they are taking it to the big screen but i believe it when i see it. logo’s premiere show that got people to logo and they cancel it after 2 seasons without bringing the story to completion. at least bring it back for a third season and complete the writing of the series – then launch it into a movie. duh.

    one thing i do know is the last time i was called a n***** to my face was by a drunk white man (assuming that he was gay) in a gay bar and the last time that I was hugged lovingly for just being in a gay bar was by a gay white guy man. and he told me to come back and visit the club for sure. the first guy doesn’t mean that all white gays or str8 – bi – trans whites are racist. just that one person was stupid. and that is what you should take from Tim. stupid because he has most likely interacted with gays for a while (closeted ones) and possibly with gays in the locker room and guess what, none of them most likely wanted him; sexually or otherwise. ignorance and fear will make anyone not educated say something stupid. now where were the gay guys standing up for charles barkley when publicly announced his support for gays; did glaad applaud him, was he on blog after blog applauded, or has that been forgotten already?

  20. moi says

    Dave, your comment about “people of his ilk” was completely unnecesary.
    He’s obviously a bigoted and possibly uneducated individual, but he in no way represents the view of his “people” which also happens to include the very NBA player who was very brave decision to come out like he did.

    Its a sad sad commentary on the gay community when we start making assumptions because of someone’s color. Why not just judge the individual???

  21. says

    My issue here is not that he’s black, but that clearly he is a member of a minority and – as such – must have some history of feeling like the “other” in this society. I think it is worse for a person of a minority to be prejudiced than for an old white guy who doesn’t know how it feels to be victimised.

    Okay, I don’t know the personal history of Tim Hardaway – maybe he had the perfect life before now. Maybe he’s never felt the sting of prejudice because of the colour of his skin. Maybe that’s true of Isaiah Washington as well. It seems remarkable that both of them would escape at least understanding what bearing the brunt of ignorance is like.

    This is, by no means, to suggest I’d go easy on the reverse situation. Rosie O’Donnell imitating the Chinese language in a very childish way was also offensive – and again this struck me as worse because surely Rosie has also come against prejudice in her life.

    Racism is bad and homophobia is bad. For a black man or a gay woman to not realise this makes me worry about how it’s possible to educate people who have never suffered prejudice for something they cannot change about themselves.

  22. Jack! says

    Whenever some person says hateful things about gay people there are always those that say he or she is self-hating. Apparently if it weren’t for those evil gays, gays would be a lot better off. Straight people are just angels to Todd M., JoJo, and JonJon who use anti-gay bigotry to justify their positions.

    There are a lot of straight people that hate gay people. Get that through your head.

  23. says

    Oh, no, another battle in the race war has begun. You want people to see you for more than your sexuality, in good times AND in bad times, but you can’t do the same when it comes to race. Thanks, for proving AGAIN that race will always be the defining civil rights narrative in this country, not sexual orientation.

  24. Ubiquitous says

    When will people recognize that Isaiah Washington and Tim Hardaway are INDIVIDUALS, not “representatives of a community”? We don’t go around saying the WHITE COMMUNITY is homophobic whenJOHN ROCKER, DR. JAMES DOBSON, MEL GIBSON, PAT ROBERTSON, EMINEM, etc. make homophobic statements.

    Even while Washington and Hardaway are making these idiotic comments, the Congressional Black Caucus–ya know, people who make LAWS–have been recognized as the most GAY-FRIENDLY group in Congress.

    So don’t you go painting the black community with one brush either.

  25. Leroy McMaster says

    Like it or not, Professional sports is a bastion for straight males. Bleeding heart liberals can bitch and whine about homosexuals not being accepted in the lockeroom, but in the end, it’s the breeders and straight men who rule and continue to watch professional sports. The demographics and ratings don’t lie.

    Democratic and leftist whiners should stick to watching Oprah or the Ellen De’Generate show.

  26. Da says

    “There are a lot of straight people that hate gay people. Get that through your head.”
    Posted by: Jack! |

    Great post. That’s the bottom line of this article to me : There are infinite quantities of straight people who hate gays and they are out there. They may or not say it, but it’s a reality.
    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=15&F=1720&T=121418&P=1
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1785093/posts

    I’m sorry but reading this story did not affect me one bit! I’ve stopped giving a shit about what straight individuals have to say about our community a long time ago. It doesn’t reach nor upset me, because I know this is what a lot of them think intimely.

    And to see us actually miss the point (and to me it’s really missing the point) by turning it into a race argument amongst us, makes me think that as a community we’re not interested in uniting and moving on up. Become a powerful political force. We still don’t believe in a queer identity and dream and common goal. sadly we don’t want it.

    So I suggest we keep on adoring the PR-savvily ready hetero celebs who have not (yet) lost their cool on the air and said how they truly feel about us. Let’s keep burrying our heads in the sands! And let’s keep ignoring our queer siblings, of all colors and genders, and focus our attention on finding the ‘straight heros who loved us’.

  27. JT says

    The “news” in this, for me, isn’t what Mr. Hardaway said, but the way the NBA dealt with it. I will confess to some surprise that they were so quick to condemn it. Well done. Incidentally, this isn’t a racial issue and it’s totally inappropriate to frame it as such.

  28. shane says

    Notice he apologized for saying it, not for believing it.

    D-2, don’t worry about having to explain things because you aren’t capable of explaining anything in any manner remotely resembling logical. You are doing *exactly* what you accuse others of doing:
    “It was completely unnecessary especially when our great tolerant gay community isn’t so open-minded when it comes to interracial relationships and sometimes friendships. There’s been reports of blacks and asians being denied entry to clubs and bars and there’s even been reports of anti-black slurs being slugged around in the Castro.

    The point is is that no one should make these judgements (that whoever should be more tolerant simply because of past injustices) because of things they can’t change such as race, religion, sex, maybe even circumcision, etc, when no community is free of shameful conduct.”

    The point is that people who are part of a group that has experienced discrimination should know how much it hurts to not do it to others. And on the subject of the open-mindedness and inclusion you think is so rampant everywhere in “minority” communities, when was the last time you saw a parade for “white gay pride” or “jewish gay pride”? Preferences for cut, uncut, white, black, mixed, etc. are personal preferences that people have a right to – and you are an ass for 1.) trying to make people feel guilty and 2.) trying to make it any of your fuking [sic] business!

  29. Zeke says

    What I find MUCH more disturbing than this asshole’s publicly professed bigotry is the fact that the overwhelming majority of the comments on BOTH sites that I’ve read this story, are supportive of and in agreement with him.

    In fact a poll at one of the local CBS station’s websites ask people’s opinions about the comment. It has a multiple choice list of answers to choose from. The leading answer to this point is, it’s “What most people believe.”

    If you want to contribute to the poll, you can find it at:

    http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_045205258.html

    Maybe we can link bomb it from gay friendly sites and change the results.

    Like I said, I could care less what this ignorant asshole has to say. He has a right to be stupid. But the responses are disheartening, to say the least.

  30. dj says

    They were laughing about this on NBC’s Today show this morning…saying “over the line” etc. but they were still laughing!

  31. dj says

    They were laughing about this on this morning’s NBC Today show…saying “over the line” etc. – but they were still laughing not gasping!

  32. Ubiquitous says

    “What I find MUCH more disturbing than this asshole’s publicly professed bigotry is the fact that the overwhelming majority of the comments on BOTH sites that I’ve read this story, are supportive of and in agreement with him.”

    Um, that’s because the CBS4 story is linked to from the very top of DRUDGE REPORT. I imagine most of Drudge’s readers are skewing the votes.

  33. mark m says

    “There are a lot of straight people that hate gay people. Get that through your head.”

    Jack you have made this argument before. What I think YOU need to get through your head is just how many closeted homos there are in the world who are so ashamed of their secret that they will lash out at open gays and are capable of some pretty ugly behavior.

    There is no doubt that there are plenty of good old fashioned straight bigots in the world. But people who go out of their way to express their disgust are MANY times just trying to convince the world that they themselves are not gay.

    I speak from experience because I used to protest a lot myself before I came out – though I never said hateful things, I just fell back on my religious upbringing to express why I didn’t “approve” of it. And I have spoken to many gay men who say the same.

    Perhaps your life experience is different from mine and you never had to deal with these kinds of feelings. All the better, because you are fortunate if you didn’t.

    But make no mistakes, there are plenty of GAYS who HATE GAYS in the world.

  34. Da says

    “What I find MUCH more disturbing than this asshole’s publicly professed bigotry is the fact that the overwhelming majority of the comments on BOTH sites that I’ve read this story, are supportive of and in agreement with him.”
    Posted by: Zeke |

    I hear you Zeke, but it doesn’t surprise me. I spend a lot of time on the web, and what I’ve learned is that haters on the hetero side are very much united when it comes to hating or excluding gays. Wasn’t there a story recently in which we discussed how extremist christians and muslims are uniting to hold conferences and rally against gays in the UK? it happens. That’s why it makes me sad when we cannot form the same unity within our community to fight against the common enemy, heterosexism.

    “Maybe we can link bomb it from gay friendly sites and change the results.”

    Ok, but personally I wouldn’t to do it for that..I think the gay community needs to witness the links precisely to get a wake up call!

    I sincerely believe we’re the ones doing the greatest cultural contribution to upholding the ideals which opress us all; instead of working actively to SUBERT that culture in our favor. It’s all up to us.

    So I feel a good dose of reality is needed for us to realize just what denying our own power lends us to.

  35. Darren says

    it’s a shame when anyone’s hate comes bubbling up to the surface.. kudos to the NBA for pulling him from representing them so quickly.

  36. Cory says

    charles barkley when publicly announced his support for gays; did glaad applaud him, was he on blog after blog applauded, or has that been forgotten already?

    Posted by: CC | Feb 15, 2007 3:32:21 AM

    Excellent point. I never knew that Charles Barkley publicly supported homosexuals and tolerance, and it saddens me that his support within the intolerant sports community wasn’t duly recognized. I have much new found respect for Barkley…

    Now, while I certainly agree with you that race, gender, religion, ad nausuam shouldn’t play any role in one individuals beliefs, I believe the point certain individuals are attempting to make is that when one particular group (may it be african-americans, japanese americans, etc.) has been persecuted due to their race or beliefs then turns around and treats another in the same way they have been treated it is a bit ironic and sad, mainly due to the fact that they did not learn anything from their own persecution. I completely understand your point, that the individual is responsible for their own ignorance and that historical racism should not play a factor, and by jumping to his African-American roots and persecution is simply displaying racism and ignorance thus creating a vicious cycle. Of course, in a perfect world none of this would be an issue, Hardaway’s homophobia and general racism in the straight and gay community. However, psychologically speaking, it does make a little sense that given the U.S.’s historically racist background that Hardaway would in the least have learned what it feels like to be persecuted and have shown some respect when discussing his beliefs. Of course, he is entitled to his opinion and certainly racism may not change an individuals own beliefs, however intolerance would surely have been addressed at some point in Hardaway’s life…

    In short, we don’t live in a perfect world, and while in some instances the world is what you make of it, we are still human beings first. It is sad that after the U.S.’s racist background that people in GENERAL have not learned the valuable lesson of tolerance and acceptance, especially the population that was personally persecuted during those difficult and horrible days. In the end, tolerance and acceptance start at home, each and every one of us should take the time in thinking past black and white, and realizing when we are all dead and buried, color, gender, religion, do not matter…

  37. mark m says

    “charles barkley when publicly announced his support for gays; did glaad applaud him, was he on blog after blog applauded, or has that been forgotten already?”

    What I remember about that story on Towleroad were the comments that said it was no big deal because Charles wasn’t running for political office, so his views didn’t mean anything, or the same tired argument that we gays are so starved for acceptance that we jump on anything positive a straight man will say, regardless of whether he MEANS it or not.

    So which is it folks? Do we applaud him? Ignore him? Demean him because he’s JUST a black man? Do we hold him up on a pedestal BECAUSE he’s a black man? Do we ignore him because he’s straight? Do we thank him for taking a position that may be unpopular in professional sports?

    I guess it depends on what your own prejudice is.

  38. mark m says

    No I haven’t forgotten the Charles Barkley quote. I remember it well. I also remember when it was reported on Towleroad, there were comments suggesting that gays fall over themselves to congratulate any straight man for saying kind things even when that man has no power to make things better (i.e. a politician).

    So while I am sure it’s true that it was not blogged as often as this story will be, when it DOES get reported, some gays shrug and say “So what?” Or worse, they disparage those who applaud said comments because they see it as pandering to the straights.

    I’ll say what I said then. You GO Charles!

  39. says

    Oprah Winfrey has the famous “I loves Harpo, but I’ll kill him dead” scene in the movie The Color Purple. For those who haven’t seen it, Whoopi Goldberg’s character, Celie had been beaten viciously by her husband. When her stepson Harpo complains that he cannot control his wife (Oprah’s character Sophia), he asks Celie if he should beat her. The beaten down Celie agrees that he should beat her. Sophia doesn’t put up with Harpo’s nonsense, and then confronts Celie in cornfield to chastise her for agreeing with the beating.

    Human behavior is complicated and things are rarely as cut-and-dried simple as we would like them to be. Some blacks who have faced oppression still go along with oppressing others. Some gays who have face oppression are still quite racist, and refuse to acknowledge this. It really doesn’t help anything to beat each other over the head about what we make up in our heads about what should be and should not be. Whatever is behind Tim Hardaway’s homophobia is probably not that different from what’s behind anyone else’s. It is not a set of beliefs that are chemically tied to melanin in the skin cells. It is wholly inappropriate to lump all blacks together as unimind then make pronouncements about what blacks should and should-not do, or how we should and should-not feel. Nor should anyone be deciding for any other group for that matter. Let’s try to focus on the big picture here. Tim Hardaway is a homophobe. He boldly and proudly identified himself as one using that word to describe himself. The NBA acted swiftly and decisively should be applauded. Now my prayer is that something happens to make him see the error of his ways and change his heart. I am not at all sure what that would be.

  40. Cory says

    Here is my comment I posted on the CBS4 website. The comments I referenced were from the comments of posters on said site regarding the article, so read on, it’s very interesting, humorous and alarming…

    “Good for Hardaway I say.” – Grace, No City

    “He’s straight and proud of it…..he just told it like it is. Give him credit!!!” – Sheri Stacy, Ohio

    “but recognizing homosexual behavior as being the blight on society that it is doesn’t make one “afraid of gay people” as the term “homophobia” would imply.” – Ned, Indiana

    “And if most gays were truthful – they’d tell you they hate straight people and basically mirror Hardaway’s statements.” – Tim Patrick, Ponchatoula, LA

    “right on Tim” – Michael Bayless, No city

    “i am also a parent of a boy and a girl and i don’t want them around gays, male or female.” – Jackie, Miramar

    “Finally I would say that yes, some hatred of gays and lesbians is based on prejudice, but more of it has been earned by the gays and lesbians themselves.” — Jason, No City

    “Not only is it disgusting behavior, it is unnatural, unhealthy, and irreligious. Unatural because it goes against nature.(No explanation needed on this one) Unhealthy, because homosexuals die 20years sooner than heterosexuals and they have more suicides and homosides.” – Steven Tanner, Laguna Beach

    “The Gay Live style is against God And it is nasty. I myself Really do not like Gay people life style. It is nasty, nasty, nasty. They should stay in the Closet.” – Glasferd Fletcher (straight)

    “God intended for Adam & Eve to have, not for Adam and George to have and I believe Hardaway must know his bible too.” – Ana Holland, Pompano Beach

    “Most people are not afraid of the big bad fa***t!” – Danny O’Dell, Spring Branch

    “I know that most gays don’t believe in Jesus or the Holy Bible” – Don Eaddy, St. Joseph’s, MI

    “I’ll bet the little f**-puppies were pissing in their pantyhose!…they are sick aberrations of nature: they are fa***ts.” – Jim Helvey, St. Petersburg

    “It is all flatulence on you and the f**s part. Americans no longer support exclusive f** rights…”Tony Hirsch, Ft Worth, TX

    “One very under reported fact is that a lot of people that experience same sex attraction recover or revert back to normal relationships eventually.” – Michael Stockman, Indianapolis

    “Over the years I have fired four people that have worked for me because I found out that they were gay. Homosexuality is completely and totally UNACCEPTABLE!” — Tom Retzlaff, San Antonio, Texas

    “The idea of Homosexuality is flat out sick… In sex education I was taught that it was Homosexuals who brought about HIV and AIDS.” – Chris Reinhold, Minneapolis

    “About time someone said it. Right on, TH!” — Doug Gunn, No Address

    “I can’t agree more. Good for him.” — Rob Taylor, No Address

    “HOORAY FOR TIM HARDAWAY ! He has dared to say what most of us THINK !” — Marsha, Lake Elsinore, CA

    “Good for Tim. I don’t like to be around murderers either – and we all know they both make the choice.” – Steve Schafer, No Address

    “Obviously, gays are in it for one generation, then as a specie they die… Thank you Tim Hardaway.” — No Name, No Address

    I want everyone to read those comments, then imagine if you were gay, or your son, or daughter, or brother, or sister… or imagine is they word “gay” was replaced with “black” or “asian”. As a psychologist, I can state with 100% certainty that homosexuality is NOT a choice, and more and more research is being conducted on both camps that support homosexuality (or any sexuality) as being genetically inherited. No, AIDS was NOT started by homosexuals, most homosexuals are NOT atheist (in fact, I have seen patients who are gay and very religious, attend church and volunteer in religious organizations). Pedophiles are NOT homosexuals, roughly 95% of pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL. Ignorance and hate start at home, pick up a book, actually educate yourselves on the FACTS – facts on AIDS, sexuality, tolerance, etc (FYI, it is completely false that most people who have homosexual attraction revert to heterosexuality, some may but only to conform and out of self-loathing, and most of them suffer from depression and suicidal tendencies). At first, I was angry by these remarks, now I am bewildered and saddened by how apparent ignorance and hate are alive and well within the United States. Why do so many people care? Why do so many people make sexuality a personal issue? From my experience, 99.9% of the time, people have personal issues against homosexuality because they ARE gay, a good example would be the Ted Haggart’s of the world. As a previous commenter stated, yes, the rest of the world view Americans as ignorant, violent and hate filled. Judging by these ignorant, uneducated and HATEFUL remarks, is it any wonder?

  41. Zeke says

    I, against my better judgment, am going to weigh into this ongoing, ad nauseam debate over the appropriateness of bringing up the race of a person who says or does something homophobic or the sexual orientation of a person who says or does something racist.

    The fact of the matter is there are appropriate analogies between the two forms of bigotry and there are reasons to expect MORE from gays and MORE from African Americans when it comes to racism and homophobia.

    If everyone would put their flame throwers down for just two seconds, take a deep, calming breath and re-read CROSSOVERMANS comment, really slowly and thoughtfully, especially the first paragraph, he makes the point, about as well as it can be made, as to why so many people take particular exception to Af-Am, and other minority, homophobes. The same could, and often is, said about gay racists.

    There are certainly people here and elsewhere who make COMPLETELY inappropriate, racist comments, and inappropriate analogies, in their comments on homophobia, but the overwhelming majority of people here who bring up race do it in a reasonable and thoughtful way; a way that in NO WAY suggest that a particular Af-Am individual’s opinion represents his whole race. Those who attempt to make that erroneous point should be quickly and loudly challenged. However, don’t be so quick to “man the battle stations” and start firing away with flaming arrows at every comment that mentions race.

    In my opinion Dave’s comment was perfectly reasonable but he was attacked by people who misrepresented what he said. He was accused of claiming that all black people were homophobes when he did no such thing; in fact he used the term “some people”, which is NOT superlative and NOT race specific.

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect gays, women, Jews, Blacks, and other traditionally oppressed minorities to be more sensitive to discrimination, oppression and hate. I, personally, am doubly offended by a gay racist; I am doubly offended by a woman anti-Semite; I am double offended by a black homophobe and I am doubly offended by a Cuban person, who came to this country on a legal technicality, who complains about Mexican illegal immigrants. That doesn’t mean that I judge ANY of these groups universally by the bad speech or behavior of individuals and it certainly doesn’t mean that I am a homophobe, misogynist, anti-Semite, racist or anti Cuban immigrant. I just expect those, who come from a tradition of being oppressed and/or those who share similar personal experiences with another minority to be more understanding of, and to be more outspoken against, the bigotry foisted on another minority. I CERTAINLY don’t expect them to support or promote it.

    The fact of the matter is there are undeniable similarities between the Af-Am civil rights movement and the struggle for gay rights and it is entirely appropriate to expect that people of different oppressed minorities speak and act as if they are ALLIES and not ENEMIES. Gays should be very active in the ongoing struggle for racial and gender equality and African-Americans should be very active in the struggle for gay rights. If they can’t be active in each other’s respective struggles, they should at least sit on the sidelines with their mouths shut and not supporting the oppressors with words and actions.

    Everyone who knows me knows that I don’t tolerate racism, homophobia or any other form of bigotry. I challenge it whenever and where ever I encounter it. Because of this, I become extremely offended when someone accuses me of racism simply because I make an analogy between racism and homophobia. I usually avoid making those analogies, even when I find them entirely appropriate, just to avoid having my words twisted and being drug into a flame war. That is unfortunate and, in my opinion, counterproductive to ALL struggles for equality.

    Sorry for the sermon. I just said in 1000 words what CROSSOVERMAN said in a few short paragraphs. Unfortunately, I’m not one for brevity.

    I apologize for spelling, typos and grammar mistakes in advance. I’m not taking the time to proofread this whole rant. :)

  42. Rad says

    I have never had a fondness for professional athletes, and this moron only helps to bolster my beliefs. These are the role models for our children; let’s teach them hatred is okay and an “Oops. My bad.” follow up (with rehab) will make all right in the world. It’s perfectly fine to teach young males that drugs are good, it’s okay to physically abuse women and that higher education is for losers who can’t score high enough to be hand picked by the NBA before they even take an SAT.

  43. SGR says

    I know the media loves stories like this because it’s controversial and gets everyone talking and commenting. But it would nice if they would balance it out with the support Amaechi has gotten from NBA players, coaches and owners. Such as those of Toronto Raptors head coach Sam Mitchell, who, when asked about the Toronto Sun about Amaechi, said:

    –[h]e finds it sad that people are still shunned because of their sexual orientation. He hopes his players would follow his example by judging people on their words and actions and not on things beyond their control.

    “It shouldn’t be about tolerance,” he said. “It should be about respect. People should treat people as human beings. I wouldn’t use the word tolerance. Are people supposed to tolerate me because I’m black? Or are they supposed to treat me with respect because I’m a human being?

    “I grew up in an area of this country (Georgia) where people didn’t like you because of the color of your skin,” he said. “I can’t change the colour of my skin any more than someone else can change who or what they are.”

    http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Basketball/2007/02/08/3558681-sun.html

  44. cody says

    Why all the hoopla? He said what the majority of people on this planet think and feel. Its going to take educating the public that gays are not freaks of nature, not the shrill responses of the majority of posters here, attacking him for being black and a homophobe isn’t going to do anything, since he has said nothing different from Bush and the GOP, but since he’s a buffoonish black guy he is fair game to attack with a racial bigotry that gay men seem to use quite a bit on this site all the while saying they are free and clear of that issue.

  45. Zeke says

    Oh, and to A DIFFERENT VIEW:

    Although your point may have some merit, you should find a better analogy. The one that you used is a complete apples/oranges comparison that makes absolutely no sense.

  46. says

    I have a post on my blog about dumasses like this. Their is no way to defend him dipshit this deserves a resignation not all the other shit on sites.

  47. Cory says

    What’s more interesting is that the CBS4 poll asks commentators to list their sexual orientation (and some so, as proudly straight). Makes one wonder what CBS4 political stance is on ths subject… Hmmmm…

  48. johnosahon says

    Cory | Feb 15, 2007 8:48:44 AM

    you are right, BUT that happens in every group. is it your gay that are laughing at shirley q racist blackface jokes. every group does the same thing.

  49. James says

    I just read Hardaway’s comments and I laughed out loud. While he was a great player, he sure knows very little about the folk who run the NBA. He had to know he was going to get canned got yapping this noise. So his lack of smarts bothers me more than his homophobia. And as someone said, this is the rant of someone who sucked dick before and is now ashamed.

    peace

  50. Andy says

    In the reactions of Mr. Hardaway and the NHL players who were quoted on the site a few days ago to Mr. Amaechi’s announcement, it’s evident they’re trying to perpetuate the stereotype of the predatory homosexual. Alas for them (and good for us), they’re only perpetuating the stereotype of the dumb jock instead.

  51. Cadence says

    Shane, if you want to see White gay pride events, you can look at most of the major pride parades and parties. They are almost exclusively White run and attended, this is the reason why so many Black gay people have started Black gay pride events.

    A good example of this can be seen in what happened during the Atlanta Pride event last year. When a Black owned magazine tried to pay to sponsor the event, they were ignored and then turned down.

    No one can make you feel a certain way. Any guilt that you feel is of your own accord. I think this is why many White people refuse to face their own bigotry and the bigotry that exists in society, instead of trying to change things, they internalize things and think that any mention of the problems that exist are a personal attack against them.

    As others have said, nothing will change until everyone is treated like individuals regardless of race, sex, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation.

  52. Kris P says

    I was upset by his comment. I was further upset that an apology is deemed sufficient.

    In regards to comparing what gays are going through to the black civil rights movement- there are valid points on both sides of this arguement. Personally I think there are very scary similarities to the persecution of the jews in Nazi Germany
    or at least what lead upto the jews being herded into concentration camps.
    My partner thinks I’m parnoid- but if our country hands power over to the wrong people it will be a very slippery slope to a place where gays are rounded up and removed from society.

  53. D-2 says

    Shane

    Your a complete waste of time. We can go back and forth on this. I could careless if you didn’t understand me or my point. If you feel guilty for putting “no blacks, asians, fats, or fems,” on your manhunt profile, don’t blame me. If you feel guilty by the constant bullshit black and asian men in the gay community get for their ethinicity, don’t blame me. I’m not the source of your sorrows.

    What exactly am I guilty of? I was only saying that members of the gay community have a problem with their own prejudices but are under the illusion that they’re something better because the racism in the gay community isn’t institutionalized and enforced with the use of force. If your feeling guilty about it, don’t blame me.

    Cory was in the right when brought up the homophobia of Bush and the rest of white America’s homophobia but why when the Gov of Mass declares war on homosexuals his race doesn’t get mentioned simply because he’s white. If a person’s white, all of a sudden their race is a non issue?

    To expect blacks to tag along with the gay community and exempt whites simply because of past history is bullshit. There’s enough black “leaders” who try to elevate “the black race” to a higher pedestal. Its amazing how some of you can degrade blacks and hold them accountable for shit based on their race. Don’t enough people on both sides do this?

  54. rudy says

    Zeke, You state eloquently what many of us think (n.b., think, not feel) on the struggle for basic civil rights for gays and the parallels to other civil rights battles. Glad to have you back on the blog. We have been inundated lately by posters who accuse us of being too old, bitter, and long winded to appreciate their vacuous opinions (borne imho of internalized homophobia). Preach long and loud brother!

  55. Ed says

    I think he regrets his statements, because of the consequences. Please boycott him and any organization that supports him. Vehement protest can be effective. There are plenty of former professional athletes, who aren’t defined by their ignorance, willing to take his place in the endorsement game.

  56. Gabriel says

    The memes of “black homophobia” and “gay racism” have been infiltrating the interwebs for quite a few years now and I’m disgusted by both. Every time I see someone post something like “blacks can be very homophobic” I feel like pulling my remaining hair out. Don’t you guys have black friends that support you? What about the CBC (minus Harold Ford)? What about Al Sharpton, or John Lewis, or Carol Moseley Braun? Don’t they count? Or Shaquille O’Neal, or Barkley, or Doc Rivers? The wingnuts have been trying to drive a wedge between the black and gay communities since they took power six years ago. This is something that we must not accept.

  57. Zeke says

    Gabriel, very well said.

    Some of the most reliable and passionate supporters of gay rights are straight African-Americans. We should never forget that and we should never let others forget that.

  58. Sonic Nurse says

    Yeah, well guess what, TIM: there are not a lot of people that like arrogant, black and bald assholes either.

  59. Giovanni says

    “People of his ilk”?

    Dave are you still keeping minutes for the Daughters of the American Revolution? Jeez some of you queens just can’t pass up an opportunity to slip on the prada sheets and march in the gaykk parade. For what obviously will not be the last time – TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT!

    Hardaway just ruined his otherwise awesome career. Um…I am sorry? Are you kidding me?!? What a moron – it’s like an episode of The Simpsons – only not so funny. The best thing to come out of this will be the dialogue it will force regarding homophobia and professional sports but no amount of rehab will save Hardaway’s brazen ass.

  60. 000000 says

    “I’ll keep this short and sweet – Tim Hardaway is one unbelievably dumb n*****r.”

    Having a hard time policing the epithets yet AGAIN, Andy?

  61. gracie says

    I agree COMPLETELY with his concept altho I wish he could’ve phrased it differently. Homosexuality is one of the greatest of all sins. It is immoral, disgusting and flat out perverse. It’s amazing how “we” as a nation have to develop “groups” or organizations so that the perverse of the world feel they have a voice or lifestyle that somehow can become acceptable. That, above all is the sickest and saddest part in which society has to deal with. It’s amazing how “we” as a nation need to somehow learn to conform to what society has become. I guess God himself had it right all along. I can’t wait to meet him one day and be proud of who I was, what I stood for, defended and believed. It’s gonna be a sad day for soooooo many as they step foot into the eternity in which they created.

  62. anon says

    The irony of the bigotted comments on the CBS4 site is that they are applauding a black man, whom, one would suspect, they would like to see put at the back of the bus again too. No self-awareness there! Ha! Of course, the numbers aren’t telling because it’s anectodal.

  63. Giovanni says

    Gracie , sweetie, are you sitting down? I’ve got some really bad news for you. Assuming you’ve never cut your hair, wore an unnatural fabric, eaten shell fish or talked back to your husband (whom I also assume is the only man you have had sex with and even then only had sex to procreate) you are probably still not going to make past the front gates. Your heart in not pure my love.

  64. Giovanni says

    Your heart is NOT pure. Your vanity alone would be enough but your lack of compassion is the real deal breaker.

  65. Daniel says

    It’s too bad how quickly this becomes a fight between “the blacks and the gays”. There is plenty of finger pointing to go around but it’s too bad nothing really constructive comes out of all this deflection.

    It is true that past persecution does not make people more accepting and less prejudiced. Everybody can bring up there “but you said…” issues. It just turns into an endless round of recriminations and is all very depressing.

  66. mark m says

    Yeah Gracie, your husband said you had pretty strong feelings on the matter. He mentioned it last night after he sucked my dick.

  67. says

    Race is an issue–to deny it within the gay community is absurd. However, Race issues go both ways! The majority of blacks dismiss that. Yet, Blacks discriminate against whites in equal amounts. There are Black gay clubs where whites are shunned and made to feel inferior. Trumping the race card gains nothing. To say whites are more racist than blacks is ignoranace at it’s best. Equality begins with ones self. Equality is for us ALL, not a few, not just racial minorities. Equality is EVERYONE. Until that is understood, the gay community will overburden itself with “issues” instead of trying to educate America on the real issue “Education on Equality for ALL!” So, when comments from overpaid NBA Athletes pop up, is it really such a shocker? Spend a weekend in Atlanta–Blacks picket with homophobia as rapidly as Fred Phelps, they aren’t immune to homophobia, DOWN LOW anyone? Perhaps if more black gays tried to educate within their race, like Keith Bokin, then someone might listen—for HRC and other organizations which have opened doors for all races/minorities into irradicating homophobia through education. Race IS an issue when it’s used against educating one on the basis of equality. Sadly, many blacks, as whites, just say NO to equality.

  68. Anon Str8 Girl says

    Hey there!
    I’m a straight minority female. I think Tim Hardaway is a complete idiot for the things he said on air.
    However I’m more disturbed by some of the things i have read here regarding African Americans.
    I understand that homosexuals often compare the discrimination they face with racism…but honestly these are two completely different issues. When you’re an African AMerican in this country you are right off the bat judged, a mile away even..
    Also African Americans are victimized but you make it seem like we wish to be white or that being white is the “normal” thing to be, many African Americans don’t care what whites think of them as long as they are given equal opportunities. I personally don’t care about Whites who are racist, if you don’t like me because of my race- it’s your loss!
    For you to expect me to empathize with the plight of homosexuals because of my own experiences is offensive, bc unless you’re an African American you can not and do not understand how it is to be discriminated against simply by a quick glance due to the color of your skin. As I don’t pretend to understand what homosexuals go through, I am only supportive of gay rights because of the HUMAN in me and i support HUMAN rights. And I realize many gays use the Black comparison for the sake of their argument, although many (not all) can care less about racism in this country.

  69. Terry Cobb says

    Who cares what a gorilla says, anyway? The guy’s a primitive person . . . ignorant and typically representative of what comes out of the ghetttt-o! This is a typical black attitude… why do you think Africa is still living in the stone age… why is it that there has never been a decent government formed of black leaders? Ever been to East St. Louis? Or Newark, NJ… or New Orleans, LA? I mean c’mon people.
    Primitive is as primitive does. I couldn’t care less what this monkey says about us.

  70. Justin Timers says

    Gracie:

    So you hate gays too… well, tell God the next time some man grabs and paws at your breasts to quench his sexual lust… why do you allow a man to manipulate and pollute the very glands that your God gave you for the purpose of feeding your children…?? Do you engage in such disgusting behavior? I’ll bet you probably do… and Gracie… remember: breasts and nipples were meant to feed children… not as some sordid toy of lust… why do you think so many women develop breast cancer?

    Justin

  71. 000000 says

    Just as Amaechi is thankful for Hardaway’s honesty so that no hate hides, I’m as appreciative of the white men seizing upon this opportunity to be the racist fucks they truly are. I assume there’s documentation of Jake Gyllenhaal making a white power statement somewhere. Where else would Andy Towle get the cue to allow these sons of bitches the space to spew their bullshit?

  72. says

    “Amazing predjudice from a black man obviously he has forgotten where his people have come from.”

    Really? Where did “my people” come from, Denis? Africa, thank you very much. And before you try to make some idiot remark about the state of Africa today, I will remind you who helped put Africa in the stae it is today: white people. You guys aren’t being very smart about this, attacking it from a racial angle…it just makes you look like the assholes. Racism is seen as much worse than homophobia, and racism from gay people??? Oh, hell no, that’s not gonna go down well. You better pray some national news program doesn’t ru the comments made on gay websites. That’s gonna make things much worse…FOR GAYS. Black people have our equality(in name, at least),you don’t. Pissing on other minorities isn’t gonna endear them to anymore, so get off your high (white) horses please.

  73. Cory says

    Racism, homophobia, sexism – it all makes me sad and sick. I have officially lost hope in humanity…

  74. Seann says

    “Primitive is as primitive does. I couldn’t care less what this monkey says about us.”

    Like totally!!!

    You are aware that all gay people do not come in the basic color of white. Not to be a walking (typing?) cliche, but we all fit under a rainbow, in terms of color.

    There *are* brown and even black gay people. I know-WTF?!?!

  75. says

    Terry,

    Hope you and your man get those sheets clean for tonight’s Klan rally. Don’t forget to put bleach in the wash this time, okay? Racist fool.

  76. ChristyLove says

    Well, we all know now that gay men can be just as big idiots as black men. It’s what I love about the internet, people can be total assholes and nobody knows who you are.

    Homophobia and racism may not be the same thing–but you know what? They’re both discusting. I refuse to get into a pissing match about who has it worse. Try being a black lesbian, you get it coming and going. And Anon Str8 Girl you don’t speak for all black people any more than I do. I am proud tham my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters draw inspiration from the plight of African Americans. I stand with them as well as my black brothers and sisters. All this offense black people take at gays is just bigotry.

  77. A.C says

    What ever happened to free speech? Where is our country heading. Black people can openly cheer for a black coach in the Super bowl, but you cannot express your opinion regarding somones sexual preference.What next, are we going to give the gay community a month in which we celebrate their gayness and history.I think this country is going to far in the spirit of mercy.

  78. Zeke says

    I’m going to say one more thing on this hijacked thread and then I’m done.

    Who do we really think benefits from this infighting between gay people and black people?

    Who do we think benefits when black people are taught that gay people are infringing on their private civil rights struggle?

    Who do we think benefits when gay people are taught that black people are their enemies and not their allies?

    Do we think black people benefit from this division and acrimony?

    Do we think gay people benefit?

    NEWSFLASH: NIETHER BENEFITS FROM THE CONTRIVED RESENTMENT AND CONSTANT FIGHTING BETWEEN OUR COMMUNITIES!

    In fact BOTH communities suffer greatly.

    The ONLY people who benefit from us being at each other’s throats are people who hate BOTH gay people AND black people!

    If we don’t wake up and stop acting like puppets on a string, blindly following the play book written by racist homophobes then we are destined to spend our time and energy fighting amongst ourselves instead of turning our anger and energy on those who would keep BOTH of our communities in perpetual second-class citizen status.

    Is that so hard to figure out?

    The sooner the gay community and the African-American community realizes this, the sooner we make REAL progress in achieving TRUE equality for ALL oppressed minorities and the sooner we put those who are prodding us to destroy each other on the run!

    The day the African-American community and the gay community wakes up and fights the good fight as ALLIES is the VERY FIRST DAY of the LAST days of racism and homophobia.

    THAT’S why it is so crucial for those who hate us to encourage us, and even set us up through these kinds of stories, to resent each other. They want to make sure that we fight against each other and see each other as adversaries so that we are distracted from fighting them. Beyond this distraction, they hope against hope that they can get us to destroy each other so that they won’t have to break a sweat or a nail to do it themselves.

    I will ally with ANYONE who wants to fight for justice and equality for everyone and against bigotry and discrimination levied against ANY human being. I don’t care what your gender, race, sexual orientation or religion is. When you’re in the trenches fighting the good fight, you shouldn’t give a DAMN about the color of the person fighting next to you and you shouldn’t give a damn about who they’re romantically attracted to!

    If anyone here is REALLY offended by bigotry and is serious about fighting it (in what ever form it is expressed) then stop bitching and moaning about who’s struggle is worse, who’s struggle is older, whose struggle is more legitimate and stop fighting each other over who’s not sufficiently appreciating the other, and join me in challenging those people and those institutions that have actually benefited from our division for FAR too long.

    If you’re not willing to do that then you should just sit down, shut the hell up and stop whining about being hated and oppressed because you are a MAJOR part of the problem and NOT part of the solution!

    I’m totally disgusted with the tone and content of this threat. The level of ignorance and arrogance from both sides of this discussion is disturbing, disgusting and completely counter productive to any REAL progress for ANY of us.

    With that I’m done.

    Flame away!

  79. Rufus says

    I disagree with the post that Washington and Hardaway are individuals. Its so obvious even from the 04 election when a majority of blacks voted republican because of the whole gay marriage scare. I don’t think its great to hear these peoples views that they hate gays so we know where they stand, I do think the U.S. has made it OK for others to hate gays. When Richards repeatedly said NIGGER you heard about it for weeks and weeks and you still hear about it. When Washington used the word FAGGOT in 2 instances you barely heard about accept on politically correct blogs and Perez Hilton. If someone came out and said they hated blacks and said they shouldn’t exist in the world or the U.S. there would be hell to pay. I watched a commntary on CNN with a straight white male defending gays as a gay black man and black women said it was worse for them and what Washington said was taken out of context. I’m sorry but I just can’t trust any BLACKS ever again. And I’ll never hire another one. I’ve seen so much hatred for gays from the black community that I think its gotten out of control. And screw GLAAD for doing NOTHING but being a bunch of FAIRIES!!! OK I said my pieace. Bye Now

  80. Erin says

    Okay, I’ll just explain the difference between being black and being gay.

    Black: You have dark skin

    Gay: You are a man attracted to other men

    Black: You have dark skin.

    Gay: You make out with other men in public.

    Black: You have dark skin.

    Gay: You have sex with other men.

    Black: You have dark skin.

    Gay: You are a black/white/ brown/yellow man who has sex and/or is attracted to other men.

    Black: You have dark skin

    Gay:…

    You can be a black homophobe or a white, yellow, or brown homophobe.

    All you’re proving with your posts is that you’re just as stereotypically racist as all of stereotypical white America, which just brings us back to the days before we all pretended to be so enlightened. Enjoy!

  81. says

    Rufus baby, please don’t be insulted, but you have to be the dumbest person who has ever posted on this site. I mean like short-bus dumb. A few facts: the NBA severed all ties with Mr. Hardaway. So apparently no one gave him a pass for being a homophobe. As for the 04 election, you said “a majority of blacks voted republican because of the whole gay marriage scare.” Go back to math class or at least do some basic research. Eleven percent of blacks voted for the GOP in 04. That means 89 percent voted for the Dems. Are you going to tell me that 11 percent is now a majority?

    Go back to your little room and rant some more Rufus (how is Chaka by the way?) because you are so tired.

    love ya

  82. Rufus says

    As usual the gay community is the only community that hates within itself. Sorry if you think I’m the dumbest person who as ever posted, thank God 200 of my employees don’t think so. Oh yeah who is Chaka? Why do gay white men call themselves consider themselves gay but black gay men consider themselves gay black (African American) men. And I have many large room with no closets.

  83. says

    Rufus,

    You are telling me you are a queen and you’ve never heard of Chaka Khan? Wow.

    But moving on to something else, why does it unnerve you for black gay men to describe themselves as black and gay? And there is no hate here baby; however, you come here and post some silly noise about not hiring blacks anymore and then try to make 11 percent a majority. Sorry baby but if you speak that nonsense you deserve to be called on it. As for your “200 employees” I’m sure they have a whole lot to say about you brother.

    When you are in your large room, without the closet, bring some books and read. You need some book learning. Maybe you should start with “W.E.B. Du Bois: Biography of a Race.” Good read

    love you like a step-cousin

  84. says

    To Zeke and some of the other posters who say blacks and others should be extra sensitive because of our experiences and the experiences of our ancestors, I say again, it is not that simple. Men who hold options like those spouted by Tim Hardaway usually have some grand justification for why it is OK to feel the way they do. Frequently, the reasons are illogical. They are making some great distinction between blackness and gayness, and at some point along the way that faulty reasoning was supported and affirmed. His anger is about ignorance, since he does not have any gay friends, or gay people that he knows amongst those human beings he loves. Many African American people generalize our experiences with oppression to other communities. Many do not. Often it comes down to home training. If you don’t see this as being true, go speak to some black feminists about sexism in the African American community. They will give you quite the earful.

    At the same time, there are those in the African American gay community who say the gay movement is not an inclusive movement for liberation, so much as an agenda aimed at restoring the full spectrum of white skin privilege to white homosexuals. BECAUSE, whether you are gay or not white men and women both enjoy white skin privilege. I never accepted this argument until I began to read this blog and other gay blogs late last year. When I see gay racism so rampant, running the full range from naked, raw and gut-bucket, to the well argued and articulated, I have been forced to re-evaluate my thinking. Many blacks are leery of the gay movement because they see it as self serving and uncaring when it comes to issues that affect other communities, especially when it comes to economic issues. This perception is not exactly true, but it is far too true for the good of either community. Ladies and gentlemen it is time for this foolishness to stop. Hatred is such a poisonous and dangerous force that there is not further time to waste when it comes to loving it away. We’ve got a job to do.

    By the way Zeke, it is still inappropriate to umpose your ideas onto whole groups of people, no matter how noble those ideas may be.

  85. Da says

    “The sooner the gay community and the African-American community realizes this, the sooner we make REAL progress in achieving TRUE equality for ALL oppressed minorities and the sooner we put those who are prodding us to destroy each other on the run!”
    Posted by: Zeke |

    I believe it’s going to happen. It’s a matter of time and a lot of work. Activists like Jasmyne Cannick have already done a step to brought these pressing issues to light imo.

    And I wouldn’t take too close to heart everything that is said in this thread, because it’s the net and everyone can write anything, including trolls who can take on any identity to spew hate from both sides. The most important thing in my opinion is that the discussion IS engaged within our community -as heated as the arguments can become-. Every uncomfortable feeling has to be brought to the surface, and it’s going to make us stronger and wiser in the end. Discussions are a blessing for us, so let’s not shy away from it!!

    I surf around the gay blogs quite a bit to take the pulse of the community, and let me tell you this: there IS a political awakening that has been taking place in the last months..Everyone’s weighting in on the big issues and getting involved..the days of us being distrated by mindless stuff are dwindling down, and we have our enemies to thank for that.

    That’s why I welcome it when people like Tim Hardaway come forth with a less than PR ready answer and put their true homophobic feelings out there. It’s not because I thrive on “drama”, but because I know that ultimately we win with this kind of openess – as opposed to when the conservative mafia distors a “pro-family” discourse causing a lot of quiet harm because a lot of gays don’t know it’s us they’re attacking and chipping away at.

    So the overall message to me is : we have to keep on talking (it’s already made an amazing difference in the last little while) and we have to stop being afraid of our power!! cause we have lots of it, and it’s the type of power that comes from being on the right side of the argument [truth] – if of course it’s where we attempt to position ourselves.

  86. Cory says

    Think about this quote from the amazing and sadly departed Coretta Scott King:

    Coretta Scott King, speaking four days before the 30th anniversary of her husband’s assassination, said Tuesday the civil rights leader’s memory demanded a strong stand for gay and lesbian rights. “I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice,” she said. “But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, ‘Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'” “I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people,” she said. – Reuters, March 31, 1998.

    Instead of bickering about who should have more sensitivity, why are we not BONDING TOGETHER in our fights for equality?

  87. Zeke says

    Sorry Buddha, but I think it IS that simple. However, like so many simple things screwed up by ignorance, selfishness and arrogance (Christianity for example) we’ve made it much more complex than it should be.

    I still believe that it is perfectly reasonable to expect oppressed people to be more sensitive to the oppression of others. And I still believe it is just that simple.

    You give your perspective from the view of an African-American man as if it negates my perspective as a white gay man. After all, what could a white man possibly understand about racism or any connection between racism and homophobia? Something you may not have considered in your incorrect assumption that my comment was strictly about believing that black people should be more sensitive to the plight of gay people, is that I based my opinion on my own personal experiences as a gay man, raised in a VERY racist environment in rural Mississippi, who reconsidered the validity of the lies he had been told about black people when he realized how similar lies were told about gay people like myself. My comment was actually from a perspective that I have first hand knowledge of and first hand experience with; one that says that gay people should be more sensitive to the evils of racism even when it’s contrary to everything they’ve ever experienced and contrary to everything they’ve ever been taught.

    I believe that my epiphany that racism, which I had been TAUGHT was natural, on a daily basis from the moment I was born, was in great part due to my being gay and knowing what it felt like, even as a white male, to be mistreated and feared simply because of a natural, God-given, immutable trait. The more in touch I became with the fact that I was gay, the more I began to rethink and reconsider the racist ideologies that I had been marinated in for 15+ years. I was surrounded by racists in a community that had a long tradition of segregation and racial tension. There was no such thing as cable TV or the internet (telling my age) to give me a perspective other than my immediate surroundings. To what else could I attribute my awakening? I was raised in the same family as my straight, racist brother but my world view is TOTALLY different and I believe that that is in no small way a direct result of the fact that I, as a gay man, empathized with other oppressed people.

    Forgive me if I project too much but having experienced the phenomenon myself, I can’t help but wonder why others don’t, in their gut, understand the need to empathize with and ally with others who are on the receiving end of bigotry EVEN when it goes against everything they’ve ever been taught and contrary to the prevailing attitude of their peers.

    I haven’t and won’t excuse or mitigate racism in the gay community and I haven’t, and won’t, excuse or mitigate homophobia in the African American community. Nor have I, or will I, single out one minority (gay, Black, women, etc.) as more guilty than the next of being xenocentric to their own issues. I continue to believe that every human being is responsible for defending every other human being from bigotry. I especially believe, and will continue to believe, that minorities should be expected to stand doubly strong for other minorities.

    In MY opinion, it should be JUST that simple.

  88. Erin says

    Zeke, the problem with your argument is that homophobia does not stem from “lies” about gay people— homophobic people simply fundamentally believe that men who date other men are gross (to put it in childish terms). This belief is then manifested with words and actions that often take on a violent, hateful characteristic.

    I suppose what you’re saying then is that racism is the belief that dark skinned people are gross (…of the devil, unnatural because of the color of their skin, etc). But my interpretation of racism in this country is that it’s not as fundamentally aesthetic as homophobia—it comes from an artificial interpretation of blackness. Blackness in USA is not just dark skin, it’s laziness and dumbness and hypersexuality and tendency towards violence and poverty and mysogyny (and eating babies:-)– whatever the klan is telling people these days). Both homophobia and racism are manifestations of hatred– the former is based on fact (some men are attracted to other men) and the latter is based on fiction (all black people are of the devil and dumb and stupid as hell).

  89. Zeke says

    That, Erin, just shows that you don’t understand homophobia OR racism.

    You don’t think that homophobia is based in the “artificial interpretation” of gayness and the feelings that gay people are weak, perverted, hypersexual, predatory and especially prone to pedophilia? Or is that the “facts” behind homophobia that you were referring to?

    You don’t think that many racist think people of other races are gross and find their mere presence or the expression of their culture disgusting?

    Honestly, that was one of the more ignorant comments I’ve seen here yet.

  90. says

    STATEMENT FROM FREEDOM DEMOCRATS, MIAMI, FL.
    Miami Dade Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Democratic Caucus
    RE: Mr. Tim Hardaway’s Anti-Gay Comments

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    Miami, Florida (February 15, 2007) – Freedom Democrats, the Miami Dade Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Democratic Caucus, categorically, and with great concern, denounce the recent comments of Mr. Tim Hardaway. Mr. Hardaway’s insensitive and bigoted comments once again show that many people in the United States have a long way to go before affording the same respect and rights that they expect for themselves.

    For those who do not know, Mr. Hardaway was an accomplished professional athlete who is a hero to many people. He retired from the NBA at the end of the 2003 season. He reached 5,000 points and 2,500 assists faster than any NBA player in history, but for the legend Oscar Robertson. He was a five time NBA All-Star, Miami Heat Guard, from 1996-2001, all time assist leader for the Miami Heat and was drafted 14th in the 1989 NBA draft out of the University of Texas, El Paso.

    Freedom Democrats respect and embrace the rights of each citizen of the United States of America to free speech. We are also aware of the fact that many citizens unfortunately still cannot live side by side with each other and embrace the uniqueness of each person. We, as an organization that represent the civil and human rights of all people, denounce and hold accountable any person that uses any forum to advance hatred and bigotry to the detriment of other citizens of the United States (See http://www.FreedomDems.org.)

    Through his comments, Mr. Hardoway feeds the fires of insidious intolerance that pervades our society. Mr. Hardaway seems to have forgotten the history of struggles so many minorities have suffered through to gain basic human and civil rights throughout the world. Freedom Democrats believes that this type of rhetoric creates an atmosphere and environment that allows for the ongoing harassment of young GLBT peoples in our schools, discrimination in the workplace and in housing, and the lack of laws which would protect the civil and human rights of GLBT peoples throughout Miami-Dade County, Florida, and The United States of America.

    Mr. Hardaway is a respected citizen and celebrity of Miami, a respected businessman and a 5 time NBA All Star. He makes money off of his appearances and his celebrity recognition has presumably been good for his two businesses he owns in Miami. Furthermore, Mr. Hardaway has spoken at many schools and has been a role model and hero for many kids and young adults with his on-the-court grit and excellence. He now gives those same kids and young adults the power, excuse, and platform through his words and example, to practice bigotry and oppress a group of people who he chooses to “hate” (his own word).

    His remarks show people and our leaders that great work still needs to be done to overcome learned prejudices in order to move our society to a more open, loving, and tolerant place that respects all people for whom they are as American citizens and not pariahs to be cast out of our society.

    The Freedom Democrats call on Miami Dade County, and all of those citizens and people who respect and embrace diversity, to not patronize Mr. Hardway’s business at Tim Hardaway US1 Car Wash, 3501 S. Dixie Highway, Miami, Florida, 305-447-9998, until that time that Mr. Hardaway makes a public apology to the citizens of Miami Dade, in a public news conference, for fueling bigotry, hatred and intolerance and engages in practices that would justify any citizen patronizing his business.

    *****************************************************************
    Chip Arndt
    President, Freedom Democrats
    Info@FreedomDems.org
    305.895.9466 x113

  91. Erin says

    I suppose also that an aesthetic involves some subjective interpretation of the world around you as well(interpretation that is influenced by culture and, therefore, biased), but what I mean is that racism involves an aesthetic and fictive denunciation of blackness. Homophobia (in the general sense, since whether you’re religious or not you can still be homophobic) is, primarily, an aesthetic denunciation. That’s where the difference lies, and that’s why you can still be a victim of an aesthetic and fictive denunciation, yet be conditioned to the aesthetic repulsion of homophobia.

  92. Zeke says

    And I take exception to your statement that homophobic people “fundamentally believe that men who date other men are gross.”

    “Fundamental” is just another way of repeating the tired ole lie that homophobia (and racism and misogyny…) is innate, instinctual and natural. It is NOT innate, instinctual, natural OR fundamental.

    IT IS LEARNED, LEARNED, LEARNED, LEARNED.

    Just like EVERY other form of bigotry.

  93. Erin says

    Why are you calling me names, Zeke? I’m not the one who hates gay people. I don’t know anyone who thinks gays are weak, perverted, or pedophiles. But I do know people who think the sight of guys kissing guys is disgusting.

    Sure I also know those who think blackness is ugly, and if you read my later post, I mentioned that. But that alone is not the cause of racism. My argument is that for most non-bible belt people who are homophobic they’re objections against gay people are primarily aesthetic. I’m not an expert, but in my unscientific assessment of homophobia (from talks with otherwise intelligent people) this is what I understand.

  94. Erin says

    And yes, I believe I also said that aesthetic appraisals are learned (based on culture). Fundamental does not mean innate, it means “the first layer”. I’m saying at the foundation of homophobia is the aesthetic interpretation of the sight of one man with another as repulsive.

  95. Erin says

    And yes I know it’s “their” not “they’re.” I was just trying to type as fast as the thoughts I was framing

  96. Zeke says

    Erin, for the record, I didn’t call you any names. You must have misread something somewhere.

    Ad hominem attacks are not my style.

  97. Zeke says

    With all due respect, and I mean that seriously, I think everything you said about why people are homophobic applies to why people are racists and vice versa.

    I’m not looking to get into a flame war with you. You are obviously intelligent and well spoken; I just believe that you are missing the forrest for the trees.

    I know that many homophobes are disgusted by seeing two men kissing. But those same homophobes are all too often the same ones who are turned on by seeing two women kissing (which is also a homosexual act). I still maintain that what you call fundamental may very well be, but it is a learned fundamental.

    I would like to hear you take on anti-miscegenists. What do you think is the basis of their bigotry? Racism? Fundamental revulsion?

    This question is honestly meant to further the discussion and not intended to lob a bomb at you. I am honestly interested in your point of view here.

  98. Erin says

    Zeke, it is my theory that homophobia takes two forms: aesthetic and aesthetic+fictive.

    The latter (aesthetic+fictive) is what most of us recognize, discuss, and attack: the idea that homosexual love is hideous COUPLED with the idea that gay people are going to hell and the stereotypes religious interpretations of homosexuality breed (that gay people are evil pedophile perverts, etc).

    Most people don’t even talk openly about the purely aesthetic objection to homosexuality– that guys kissing guys is gross. But it can be argued that that’s the predominant form of homophobia in our patriarchal society. Men who consider only women sexual objects think it’s gross to see men sexualizing other men. Lesbians sexualize other women. And patriarchal America considers this a lesser sin because it sexualizes women too!

    If the aesthetic+fictive form of homophobia were the most dominant strain in our society, then lesbians would be condemned in the eyes of our patriarchy AS ROUNDLY as gays are condemned, which they are frankly not.

    Patriarchy, in short, sees the acceptance of gayness as normal as more a threat to its culture (of sexualizing woman, of the barefoot pregnant cook who cleans and cleans and talks and talks while the man brings home the bacon) than it does lesbianism. This is where the aesthetic repulsion (based on above culture) arguably comes from.

    Similarly in the culture of white supremacy, the repulsion towards miscegenation comes from its threat to this order. Racism, IMO, is aesthetic+fictive. Aesthetics alone cannot support racism– people are good looking enough to overcome any assertion that their darkness likens them to monkeys. Racism needs fiction (stereotypes) to sustain it.

    Homosexuality, unfortunately, can feed off of the threat to patriarchy alone (since the latter is a more ontologically grounded system than race supremacy is)

  99. Erin says

    Zeke, it is my theory that homophobia takes two forms: aesthetic and aesthetic+fictive.

    The latter (aesthetic+fictive) is what most of us recognize, discuss, and attack: the idea that homosexual love is hideous COUPLED with the idea that gay people are going to hell and the stereotypes religious interpretations of homosexuality breed (that gay people are evil pedophile perverts, etc).

    Most people don’t even talk openly about the purely aesthetic objection to homosexuality– that guys kissing guys is gross. But it can be argued that that’s the predominant form of homophobia in our patriarchal society. Men who consider only women sexual objects think it’s gross to see men sexualizing other men. Lesbians sexualize other women. And patriarchal America considers this a lesser sin because it sexualizes women too!

    If the aesthetic+fictive form of homophobia were the most dominant strain in our society, then lesbians would be condemned in the eyes of our patriarchy AS ROUNDLY as gays are condemned, which they are frankly not.

    Patriarchy, in short, sees the acceptance of gayness as normal as more a threat to its culture (of sexualizing woman, of the barefoot pregnant cook who cleans and cleans and talks and talks while the man brings home the bacon) than it does lesbianism. This is where the aesthetic repulsion (based on above culture) arguably comes from.

    Similarly in the culture of white supremacy, the repulsion towards miscegenation comes from its threat to this order. Racism, IMO, is aesthetic+fictive. Aesthetics alone cannot support racism– people are good looking enough to overcome any assertion that their darkness likens them to monkeys. Plus looks alone don’t justify the insitutionalized racism necessary to keep white supremacy alive. This kind of racism needs fiction (stereotypes) to sustain it.

    Homosexuality, unfortunately, can feed off of the threat to patriarchy alone (since the latter is a more ontologically grounded system than race supremacy is)

  100. Erin says

    Sorry that was long: In other words– Racism is about asserting the supremacy of one race over the other in a defensive (preemptive) attempt to increase the longevity of the “superior” race’s system.

    Homophobia is about the assertion of the patriachal over a homosexual system, in a defensive (preemptive) attempt to increase the longevity if the patriarchal system.

    Patriarchy is more grounded in evolution, it’s a first tier system, which preys on our innate need to propagate the human race.

    Racism is a two-tier system which preys on the white race’s innate need to propagate the human race IN CONJUNCTION with the selfish need to propagate their own race (survival of the fittest humans +survival of the fittest race).

  101. Erin says

    Sorry that was long: In other words– Racism is about asserting the supremacy of one race over the other in a defensive (preemptive) attempt to increase the longevity of the “superior” race’s system.

    Homophobia is about the assertion of the patriachal over a homosexual system, in a defensive (preemptive) attempt to increase the longevity if the patriarchal system.

    Patriarchy is more grounded in evolution, it’s a first tier system, which preys on our innate need to propagate the human race.

    Racism is a two-tier system which preys on the white race’s innate need to propagate the human race IN CONJUNCTION with the selfish need to propagate their own race (survival of the fittest humans +survival of the fittest race).

  102. Zeke says

    Erin, I’m intrigued with your observations. I can see your point and I can agree with most of it although I think you have too narrowly defined a few of your parameters.

    Now the Final Jeopardy question: How do you suggest we apply your observations in a way to better confront and fight anti-gay bigotry and how should homophobia be confronted differently than racism?

  103. Zeke says

    I think one second tier of homophobia that you have left out, even though it may be every bit as powerful as the second tier of racism, is the influence of religion in promoting homophobia.

    That is completely separate from any physical repulsion that homophobes might feel.

    I disagree with your assertion that patriarchy (at least in the form of male domination in modern society) is grounded in evolution. I believe that patriarchy today is learned and is “traditional”, but traditions are not necessarily evolutionarily programmed. Once again, we’re too quick to attribute learned behavior, especially when its deeply ingrained tradition, to evolution, innateness and instinct.

  104. Todd Reynolds says

    Are you fags serious? Unreal. Your whole identity is tied up in who you choose to have sex with.
    Its an EXIT, not an entrance.
    Also, I loved the Snickers ad. Stupid homo’s.

  105. says

    God bless Hardaway!

    It’s a good thing that people can be honest and speak their minds like that. Screw political correctness. I hope kids all over America look up to Hardaway as a role model and know that we don’t HAVE to like gays to be accepted in society – that we, as free Americans – can actually, GASP, dislike homosexuality and still get by without being harassed for it by the politcally correct liberals of society.

    Once again, God bless Hardaway, and as far as I see it, he owes NO ONE an apology!

    What gall – the gay people think that they are untouchables or something? That we all have to like them and approve of them? Welcome to the real world… some people are never going to like it and you know what – these people have a right to speak their minds, too. It’s called Freedom of Speech … and it not only applies to liberals who embrace homosexuality, but it applies to those of us who do not as well.

    Get used to it.

    Billy Kess