Mark Wahlberg Not Ready to do “The Thing”

Wahlberg2In a recent interview, Mark Wahlberg said that he and Joaquin Phoenix were both considered for roles in Brokeback Mountain but that certain aspects of the story (the gay ones, for example) made him uncomfortable:

“I met with Ang Lee on that movie, I read 15 pages of the script and got a little creeped out. It was very graphic, descriptive – the spitting on the hand, getting ready to do the thing. I told Ang Lee, ‘I like you, you’re a talented guy, if you want to talk about it more…’ Thankfully, he didn’t. I didn’t rush to see Brokeback, it’s just not my deal… Obviously, it was done in taste – look how it was received.”

Maybe Wahlberg should have taken some notes from his gay uncle, about whom he once said: “My uncle was gay and he was a teamster and a truck driver and he was a guy’s guy, but he kept this secret his whole life. Imagine how hard that must have been for him. I feel so bad. Every time my dad brings it up, he cries because he loves his brother more than anything. He doesn’t care what it was. He was born that way. Acceptance is the key. The only way you’re gonna succeed in life and really grow as a human being is through acceptance.”

And you know, there are only so many tough Boston cop parts out there.

Comments

  1. lee Gordon says

    I believe Mr. W once took someone’s eye out with a nail on the end of a stick. This is not someone to look to for direction on weighty matters of the universe.

  2. Luke says

    Marky Mark is still a homophobe, no matter how anyone tries to dice it, even when he like many homophobic jerks trot out a gay relative to show they are fair minded. He in the past has made gay slurs and racial ones as well, so, it really comes as no surprise to me to read his nasty comments. When those foolish gay men were swooning over him in his Calvin’s he had no problem with it, now that he is ‘somebody” he is grossed out be two men in love? Well, buddy, since you have not aged well at all, I’m grossed out by you and your intolerance.

  3. mark m says

    I know it’s cliche to immediately categorize a homophobe as a closet case, but I never got that vibe from him. I think this may be a case – like Jack! and others on Towleroad suggest – of a straight man just being prejudiced.

    I’m still inclined to think that straight men who feel compelled to go into great detail about why homosexuality makes them uncomfortable are suffering from masculinity issues. That doesn’t mean they are gay, but perhaps they have an “incident” in their childhood that still haunts them, or they were the skinny kid who got picked on in school and called “fag” one too many times. Whatever the reason, straight men who go out of their way to diss homosexuality or proclaim “it’s not my thing” are projecting insecurity.

    Think of all the actos who have played gay roles. Are all of them gay? Why could they do it and Mark W. could not?

    Only his therapist (and perhaps the guy he played doctor with at age 13) know.

  4. dc-20008 says

    I like Mark as an actor.

    As far as the gay fear, he was the biggest gay pin-up of the 80s. All that homoerotic underwear stuff?? I mean who is he kidding?

    I don’t think he’s gay, but I do think he likes to tease.

  5. gabe says

    He would’ve failed miserably had he accepted either the role of Jack or Ennis. He doesn’t have the acting chops nor the maturity to take on the complexities of those two characters.

    American cinema is better off in the end.

    Thank you Marky Mark.

  6. Richard says

    He’s right. Acceptance is key. And, he is what he is — way out of his element, and incapable of taking on a role that goes beyond his limited scope. And, I accept him for that. Like so many of the Hollywood “guy actors” — they wouldn’t want to pronounce the word “thespian” for fear of being accused of a lisp! Amazing how far a guy can go as an underwear model!

  7. Ray says

    I totally agree with Lee. In the first graph, he says he’s “not comfortable” with the thing, etc. Then to cover his ass, in the second graph, he brings up his poor gay uncle and the fact that everyone should accept and grow. Well, obviously, he didn’t grow enough. It just shows how much more evolved both Jake and Heath were as human beings and as actors to take the chance that they did with the movie.

  8. Da says

    I’m afraid to say, but if I was an actor I would have been creeped out by the scenario of Brokeback Mountain as well.

    I think the movie left me a bit traumatized, hence why I resent it so still..I’ll get over it. Hopefully.

  9. busytimmy says

    the scene in Brokeback he is referring to was basically a sort of consensua; rape in my eyes, very brutal and rough. There are gay men who are not comfortable with anal sex, does that make them homophobic too? Let’s not play that card so often.

  10. MT says

    I have to agree with Mark. Asking a straight man that question would be the equivilant of asking me how much I would like to fuck a girl. I would be equally uncomfortable with the notion but that doesn’t mean i’m an active heterophobe. I’ve never heard of anything derogatory coming out of his mouth toward gay people. In this case it obviously just a case of it not being his taste. We don’t have to get all up in arms the second anyone says the don’t like the idea of sticking their dick in someone’s ass. Maybe if he was a stronger actor it wouldn’t be a problem for him or maybe not.

    The day he calls someone a faggot without any provocation or says he crosses the street to avoid gay people is the day I’ll rethink my attitude towards him.

  11. justaguynatl says

    I totally agree with MT. What’s up with you guys? If you were asked to go down on a girl, what would your response be? Just because a straight guy doesn’t want to fuck a gay man’s ass doesn’t mean he’s a homophobe. We need to be more selective in our battles.

  12. Stevie P says

    Humm, let’s see–does my extensive DVD collection contain anything staring the underwear talent of MW? NO! Now he says he can’t “handle the thing”—was that a cucumber in the 80’s Marky Mark ??(smirk)….

  13. RCG says

    MT, it’s called acting for a reason. Being asked to depict something you may or may not do in real life is the entire point. I imagine blasting someone’s head off is not something Mr. Walberg is comfortable with either, but he has certainly done so on screen.

  14. Rey says

    What a fucking idiot.

    “Marky” gets all creeped out reading 15 pages of a script mainly due to the scene with “the thing”? What was his problem? Did he think Lee was going to make him stick his dick in the other lead?

    I wonder if he got really scared when Burton put him in that spaceship. I bet he was afraid he was really going to be sent into Earth’s simian-led future!

  15. Preacher says

    The itty, bitty little “thing” should shut his idiot mouth and not speak in public. I met the bitch years ago, and she’s all of 4 foot 11 inches… and shops in the boys department. But the ones who shout the loudest are the ones who search for dick in dark places after midnight. Somebody with a 12 inch dick please stick it in his ugly mouth.

  16. Da says

    Here’s the thing: I’m not defending Mark, but he obviously read the script knowing what it was about, and with interest to play the part. Then he came across a scene that stopped him dead in his tracks.

    Personally, I’ve not yet come across a heterosexual love story in Hollywood (especially one considered the greatest of all time) where the man spits on his hand, brutly disrobes his leading lady, and forcibly sticks his genitals in hers – as Bustytimmy described.

    So to me the question here isn’t whether Mark W was willing to play a gay part or not, but what quality he was expecting. imo, and mine only, he made the right choice.

  17. Leland says

    Brokeback “sinister”??? “loveless”????? Are there two “DAs” posting on Le Road? If not, then the DA who has posted some cogent things was obviously drugged out of his mind when he saw Brokeback [acid maybe?]—or is confusing the movie and this thread with the one about “Cruising” yesterday. Better dial up Ang Lee and tell him to remove “A Love That Will Never Grow Old” from the soundtrack.

    BUSYTIMMY may not even know DA but apparently he was also on a bad acid trip, and the distorted memories also destroyed his understanding of oxymorons. Grammatical errors aside, the closest thing I’ve ever heard of to a “consensual rape” is the fraud that Reichen perpetuated upon the public about the Air Force blow job he was “forced” to receive.

    Sure there are gay men, and straight women, who don’t enjoy anal sex, but, despite Ennis’s drunk and horny-out-of-his-mind plowing of Jack, there’s nothing clearer than that Jack wanted it to happen. I’m sure he would have appreciated some more spit and Ennis going a little slower and nuzzling Jack’s ear in the process, but you cannot rape the willing—neither a fictional character nor the fictionalized USAFA Cadet Richard Lehmkuhl.

  18. Mike says

    In response to MT’s comment: Nobody is asking him to have anal sex, they are asking him to pretend. He has had no problem killing innocent lives in the name of fiction, so why would sex be any different. I agree that he is obvoisuly not gay, but it is also obvious that he has some issue with his sexual persona…he always seems to stumble into these weirdly revealing comments…or amybe we just pay closer attention to him.

  19. Da says

    Leland: It’s indeed me, and no I was not on acid when I saw the movie!? heh (I’m glad however that you seem to have such a high opinion of me that you’re alarmed by what some may view as a ‘sacrilegious’ take on this movie classic in our community.)

    I maintain that BBM is a loveless and sinister movie to me, which offers none of the depth, beauty and rich nuances real gay relationships have to offer – and part of its great danger is that its is currently upheld as the absolute best our community has to offer in the romance department. This said I still hold hope Hollywood will have a little more guts next time and not make excuses for celebrating a passionate, timeless and loving gay romance on screen.

    What I find greatly unfortunate for now though, is that opinions which are different on this subject are not tolerated, and that people seem unwilling to accept that one may have a very valid critic about Brokeback Mountain, its scenario or its treatement without being “homophobic”.

    BBM is first and foremost a movie. A product. And art, as seen through the eye of the beholder. And that’s what it’ll always remain.

  20. Ray says

    GIve me a break….All of this stupid, school marmish Brokeback bashing..What the heck? Sounds like DA’s idea of a romantic movie is something a romance novelist would dream up [cue in the cheesy music, champagne glasses clicking, chocolate covered strawberries, fireside, uggghh] Barbara Cartland material. It was absolutely appropriate for the boys to have THAT kind of sex in THAT kind of setting. What the heck…suddenly all these gay prudes are coming out of the woodwork..Oh, the sex scene was too rough..oh, they didn’t use lube..Please. Get. Some. Perspective. It was a story about two sheep herds in the middle of nowhere. Don’t defend stupid homphobe Marky Mark’s idiotic comments.

  21. Charlie says

    I love “Brokeback Mountain” and thought it was the best film of 2005, but I did not think it was a beautiful ‘love story.’ More than anything it was a tragedy, and a cautionary tale about the dangers of staying closeted and the innocent lives that get ruined in that process. The cowardly choices of Ennis in particular doomed whatever chances he and Jack had at expressing real love towards each other.

  22. Chris says

    This is another example of finding homophobia where there is none. Not wanting to play a gay man and participate in a rather graphic sex scene does not make you homophobic. I dont know if I would be comfortable performing that scene, I found it disturbing. “Acting” or not, you still have to fake sex with a man, and if you’re not gay, thats not an appealing prospect.

  23. lisalisa says

    im a girl here but let me put my two cents in for what its worth…i dont think mark is a bigger homophobe then most, but lets get real here when it comes to GAY SEX, i think most ppl get a little grossed out. even lesbians think its gross. its a huge turnoff for eveyone except if ur a gay man, duh! 2 men fuckin, we’re like EWW, its funny tho. bum sex is what it is, shit n dingleberries! i even watched 2 close male friends of mine have sex, i was curious and it was fun to watch but after awhile i had to look away, lol…

  24. says

    He is not a homophobe or being anti-gay friendly for saying this. I am totally down for gay films, but the ‘love scene’ he describes in his meeting with Ang Lee isn’t a ‘love scene’ at all. I call it rape. When someone who’s drunk and tired throws someone onto their stomach and spits on his hand for lube, then continues to shove it in despite the vocal confirmation of the obvious pain his ‘partners’ in, that’s rape.

    I think Gyllenhaal and Ledger are two fine, fine looking men. I mean, right? But that scene was not tantalizing at all. My stomach churned and the rest of the film confirmed what I knew the scene depicted. Ledger’s character continued to rape Gyllenhaal’s. Both physically and emotionally. By the end of the movie it was obvious who was more invested in their ‘relationship’. So invested, in fact, he was murdered for it.

  25. mark m says

    “If you were asked to go down on a girl, what would your response be?”

    Um, you do know it’s an ACTING role, right? He wouldn’t have had to actually stick his….

    Oh nevermind.

  26. dan cobb says

    I REFUSE to spend a penny on a Mark Wahlberg movie. HE got “creeped out” by the Brokeback Mountain script?! What creeps me out about Wahlberg is that when he was 19 he took a tire iron to rob an elderly oriental man in NYC and Wahlberg bludgeoned him so that the guy completely lost the vision in one eye and suffered multiple fractures.
    Wahlberg, no matter how “Hollywood-famous” he becomes, is a spiritually ugly, nasty person and I won’t spend a penny on any movie or enterprise he’s associated with.
    I despise him. He never apologized or made amends to that old man. He must have one hell of a brutal, nasty soul.

    Dan

  27. peterparker says

    Walter,

    I don’t know what movie you saw, but I didn’t see anyone get raped in Brokeback Mountain. Gyllenhaal’s character, Jack Twist, made the first move on Ennis del Mar, played by Heath Ledger. Ennis then took the lead and gave Jack exactly what Jack had been so obviously longing for since the first time he laid eyes on Ennis outside the trailer where they were hired. And Jack Twist didn’t say ‘No’ or ‘Stop’. Sure, it was rough sex and there was no lube, but c’mon…these guys weren’t two Chelsea boys in the year 2007…they were redneck cowboys/sheep herders in the 60’s. What did you expect, music and candlelight? Maybe it isn’t the kind of sex you crave, but don’t call it rape when it isn’t.

    As for Mark Wahlberg’s comments…psychological studies have proven that men who express the most discomfort with homosexuality have the highest rates of arousal when shown gay porn. I’ll let that speak for itself.

  28. Dan Cobb says

    I LOVED BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN… reminded my of my days growing up as a young buch in western Nebraska back in the 1960’s and 70’s. Mark Wahlberg would have completely ruined that movie for me. I too am familiar with his unrepentent history of having brutally beaten his victims who were too old or infirm to fight back. What a cad! I’m even sorry to hear that Wahlberg was even considered… a slight taint on the movie . . . but I’m very pleased he wasn’t chosen for the roles… I think Ledger and Gyllenhaal did a great great job.

  29. mark m says

    Da, you bring up a valid point. Art is subjective. I knew when they decided to make BBM into a movie, that there would be a lot of gay men turned off by the story.

    It’s not the most validating film about being gay. But that’s missing the point. BBM isn’t about being gay, but falling in love with someone you can’t (or won’t let yourself) truly have.

    This kind of story is as old as time and BBM wasn’t the first to do it. It was not however, as you describe, a loveless story. Dysfunctional, heartbreaking, aching and sad, but it was love.

    It may not be the romance that you personally want to see depicted on the big screen, but it is the kind of relationship that men have been having with one another a lot longer than there has been a Castro District or happy feel-good straight-to-DVD gay comedies.

  30. Gregg says

    DA – you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I too find it alarming that others are condemning you. I ADORED Brokeback and can’t understand your opinion, but I don’t think you should be forced to love any movie.

    That said, Marky is an idiot. Any actor worth his chops would have understood that scene in context. Films have depicted some pretty hardcore rough hetero sex scenes that would certainly not be considered rape nor would they prompt an actor to describe them as “the thing.” Did Marky graduate high school, because he seems like he’s still stuck on the playground in junior high.

  31. Gregg says

    Additionally: although I love Brokeback, I also understand that it is inherently homophobic in its typical Hollywood portrayal of tragic, painful consequences for gay people. I believe it is a step forward though, in that it places the “blame” for such consequences on society as a whole, not on homosexuality itself.

  32. _____ says

    *Don’t ever come back to this site, you useless, dumb cunt.

    Posted by: FanGirlHater | Feb 28, 2007 3:20:53 PM

    I second that FanGirlHater! I’m a straight female and I don’t get grossed out by 2 men together at all. I think LisaLisa probably prefers the vag anyway.

  33. _____ says

    This is another example of finding homophobia where there is none. Not wanting to play a gay man and participate in a rather graphic sex scene does not make you homophobic. I dont know if I would be comfortable performing that scene, I found it disturbing. “Acting” or not, you still have to fake sex with a man, and if you’re not gay, thats not an appealing prospect.

    Posted by: Chris | Feb 28, 2007 1:19:36 PM

    It’s called ACTING you dumbass! What about all the closeted gay actors who have to french kiss and do fake sex scenes with the opposite sex?! I’m sure it’s no picnic in the park for them, but they do it anyway to keep their jobs because acting is a JOB! When an actor chooses to play a serial killer, it is because they think it’s “an appealing prospect” as you put it? Is it not disturbing to fake killing a person?Seriously, you’re a jackass Chris.

  34. says

    How on earth would he have been able to pull off the role anyways? It called for the men to start off in their early 20s! Screw him, he’s a racist and a homophobe, it’s been documented. He got thrown out of Madonna’s party after calling her entourage “f@ggots”, beat up blacks while calling them the n-word, and blined an asian man while spewing anti-asian slurs. “Well, he was high on angel dust…” Yeah, that’s big consolation to the dude he permanetly blined. Tool.

  35. anon says

    Is it just me or is str8 sex kinda gross? I haven’t seen any str8 porn in years, but it alway made me feel icky. Str8 kissing and petting doesn’t bother me tho. Meanwhile, over on the BBM forums there are a lot of women who found the man-on-man action really hot, to their surprise. The gay men would all say how romantic it was while the women on the forums would say it was HOT–quite the switcheroo from our expectations, though the sex in BBM was so tame for gay men to see, its romantic content really came thru, particularly the second scene. What really turned MM off was his fear his career would circle the toilet if he did the sex scenes.

  36. frambuesas says

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I thought that the most offensive thing he said was “I didn’t rush to see Brokeback, it’s just not my deal… “.
    JUST NOT HIS DEAL?? Come on, man-what’s that about. Not only did he not want to play the role because of the ‘sex scene’ but he didn’t even go to see how the film came out because it’s not his “thing”?

    Be real Marky Mark, what’s not your thing…homosexuality? (and articulation, apparently)

  37. Cory says

    Marky Mark, Victor Ashe, Foley, Gannon, Haggard and the list goes on and on. Ever notice how the ones most disgusted by the gay community are the ones who swallow?

  38. Chris says

    Yeah, and as an actor, it is your right to turn down any role you dont feel comfortable with. Even if you are “acting”, you still have to kiss a dude and pretend to have sex. If you’re not comfortable kissing a dude, you turn down the role. Its the right of all those “closeted gay actors” to turn down any role where they have to make out a chick if they want too. Not wanting to play at fucking a guy in the ass does not make you homophobic.

  39. Chris says

    and _____ , yes, its acting, but he still would have had to thrust himself against another guys ass, and make out with a guy later in the film. If he’s not comfortable with that, he’s not comfortable with that. Your comparison of fake killing a person is ridiculous. When fake killing a person, they have to “pretend” to stab a person, whereas Marky Mark still would have had to kiss a guy, and still would have had to grind his crotch against a guys ass. It would be comparable to saying “You dont have to really kill them, just stab them a little bit.”

  40. Teej says

    CHRIS: No, but saying “I read 15 pages of the script and got a little creeped out… the spitting on the hand, getting ready to do the thing. I told Ang Lee, ‘I like you, you’re a talented guy, if you want to talk about it more…’ Thankfully, he didn’t.” is homophobic.

  41. Da says

    Thanks for the comments guys, and your diverging opinions which are very much appreciated.

    –“[BBM] is not the most validating film about being gay. But that’s missing the point. BBM isn’t about being gay, but falling in love with someone you can’t (or won’t let yourself) truly have.”
    Posted by: mark m

    Interesting take Mark..see, I wonder if the movie had been marketed this way if I would have went into it with a different expectation and judged it accordingly?? Probably.

    And the funny thing is before the movie was out Jake Gyllenhaal was quoted in an interview saying something along those lines -that the leads were not necessarly gay or that the story was just about love- and I criticized it, because it was the popular opinion to have at the time (cause after all, this was promised to us as ‘THE’ gay cowboy romance movie that would sweep us off our feet; and I was ready for it and unwilling to settle for anything less)..

    But then I when I saw the movie, I went : “dang!! Jake was absolutely right! This is not a gay movie! It may be about two friends falling in love, or in lust, and having lots of rough male-to-male sex, but it’s not gay”.

    So I think the problem was the Hollywood marketing of the film, or maybe the recuperation of it by us in the community, including some of our respected rights orgs – which didn’t allow the film to stand on itself and tell its own story. ie like for a while it felt like BBM and the gay community were indivisible in the eyes of many, and I hated that cause I didn’t see us in the film.

  42. Cory says

    Jack, I hope Chris is not gay. I hope from the negative tone regarding homosexuality he isn’t gay. If he is, then I would love to have him as a patient.

  43. sunspot says

    >I maintain that BBM is a loveless and sinister movie
    >to me, which offers none of the depth, beauty and rich
    >nuances real gay relationships have to offer

    I’m sorry . . . who died and left you in charge of judging what constitutes a “real” gay relationship? Judging from the avalanche of letters Annie Proulx received after Brokeback Mountain was first published in The New Yorker over a decade ago, I’d say there were quite a few “real” gay men out there who’d had “real” gay relationships filled with “real” gay love which were more than somewhat similar to the relationship between Jack and Ennis as depicted in Ang Lee’s beautiful, richly nuanced film.

    >Part of its great danger is that its is currently upheld as
    >the absolute best our community has to offer in the
    >romance department.

    Huh? That’s like saying that Romeo and Juliet is the “absolute best” the straight community has to offer in the romance department (it’s actually a lot “worse” than Brokeback Mountain by your apparent standards, since in that story BOTH lovers end up dead). Like Romeo and Juliet, Brokeback Mountain is a romantic T-R-A-G-E-D-Y, and a damn fine one. Although I’d argue Brokeback is even more tragic, in spite of the lower body count, if only because of the addition of self-loathing to the equation.

    >For a while it felt like BBM and the gay community were
    >indivisible in the eyes of many, and I hated that cause I
    >didn’t see us in the film.

    I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but when you see BBM you’re actually seeing the gay experience thru the eyes of probably 60% or more of the total population of gay and bisexual men in America. Most gay men in America don’t live in West Hollyweird, Manhattan or the Castro, especially during the period (1963 – 1983) depicted in the film. They don’t like showtunes. They don’t wear Prada. They are almost nothing like the stereotypical images of gay men that Hollywood and the urban-dominated gay media have foisted on the public – and the gay community itself – for the past 100 years. What made Brokeback Mountain so shocking was seeing the reality of gay life in America for the vast majority of gay men over the past century or so vividly portrayed on the silver screen.

    If Brokeback Mountain didn’t happen to reflect YOUR particular gay experience, well, now you know how the majority of gay men have felt about virtually all media depictions of the gay experience for the past century.

  44. wgs says

    Marky Mark played to a sold out crowd in Tampa at a gay bar (99.9% male)in the early 90’s. He had no issues being around gay men oogling his body (wearing only his sweaty white see through Calvin Boxer briefs)but maybe he needed the money…gay for pay? and now he is above that? Just an opinion.

  45. Dr. Pat says

    P..l..e..a..s..e..my children. Here is a guy that ran around on stage flashing his ass and body in underwear. Marky Marky. He loved to show his body. And yes take a look in the public library with the same title as Marky Marky and you will see that even then they have a full collection of his tit’s and ass. Yes he does have a third tit. Check it out. Please he probably knows that his body is falling a part like all of us and so he would feel rather uncomfortable playing his real self. If he had the body like he did when he was young by god he would play any part that showed it.

    Check out the workout video he made years ago. What can I tell you? It’s kleenex time.

    Just a thought.

  46. _____ says

    When fake killing a person, they have to “pretend” to stab a person, whereas Marky Mark still would have had to kiss a guy, and still would have had to grind his crotch against a guys ass. It would be comparable to saying “You dont have to really kill them, just stab them a little bit.”

    Posted by: Chris | Feb 28, 2007 10:42:19 PM

    OMG, you are nuts!!! True, you obviously don’t really stab someone d’uh! But there are scenes in all kinds of films where things get quite “physical”. Some actors have had scrapes and bruises from doing physical stuff on camera, as I’m sure MM has too. Some actos even get broken bones for instance. Is that unpleasant for them? Sure, but they get over it. So if you can deal with getting cuts, scrapes, bruises and even broken bones, you CAN and WILL get over kissing and dry humping someone of the same sex in a film. OKAY? Seriously, what is wrong with idiots like you who have a desire to baby poor lil’ insecure “straight” people? You need help.

  47. Da says

    —“I’m sorry . . . who died and left you in charge of judging what constitutes a “real” gay relationship? Judging from the avalanche of letters Annie Proulx received after Brokeback Mountain was first published in The New Yorker over a decade ago, [etc..]
    Posted by: sunspot |

    You missed the “to me” part Sunspot! It’s an opinion, and a valid one. No one has to die to give me permission to express it as thouroughly as I chose to..Plus I wasn’t talking about Annie Proulx’s book (which I haven’t read) but solely BBM the movie and its treatment.

    —“Huh? That’s like saying that Romeo and Juliet is the “absolute best” the straight community has to offer in the romance department (it’s actually a lot “worse” than Brokeback Mountain by your apparent standards, since in that story BOTH lovers end up dead).”

    True. But Romeo and Juliet is just one of a rich tapestry of films the straight community can look at in Hollywood to find models of relationships. One of thousands and thousands…Whereas BBM has been portrayed as the ultimate one for the community at large; and it’s been endorsed by our renowned rights organisations. That gives it a different status than R&J right away. – And I contend that there is a serious danger when the model offered of a “gay” relationship on film is that of two buddies exhibiting limited chemistry on screen, beyond a vaguely pornographic one during their sex scenes, and who we hear later on may or may not have been gay.

    I’m not even one of those who were concerned by their tragic ending, or the fact they cheat on their wives etc. I simply regret the fact that the limited time they spent together on screen offered zero in terms of development, and chances to show how a relationship between them had flourished into a love -not just lust- that survived for decades.

    —“I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but when you see BBM you’re actually seeing the gay experience thru the eyes of probably 60% or more of the total population of gay and bisexual men in America. […] What made Brokeback Mountain so shocking was seeing the reality of gay life in America for the vast majority of gay men over the past century or so vividly portrayed on the silver screen.”

    ..But those realities being true, doesn’t necessarly make BBM a successful film at capturing them and rendering it in a way that is compelling to all.

    That’s the basic point of my comment about the indivisibily and indifferentiation that was made between BBM and the gay community : it’s as if it only told of our past, present and future, and therefore ought to be seen as sacred. (Like, I could literally attack any of our historic gay activists or institutions and find virtually no opposition, but everytime I’ve voiced a thoughful critic on this film or its stars I’ve met with the most incredible venim ever, which is a hint to me that there’s an abscess to be burst there)..

    Hence why there’s a real problem when a Hollywood movie is given that kind of a status.

  48. Da says

    Posted by: _____ |

    Hey __, you can pick a nickname you know. Girls are very much welcome on this site, we already have several posting regularly: Fangirlhater, Lady Heather, etc.

    And welcome if you just joined :)

  49. sunspot says

    >It’s an opinion, and a valid one.

    Everyone has an opinion. That doesn’t make them particularly well thought-out, or especially valid.

    >Plus I wasn’t talking about Annie Proulx’s book (which
    >I haven’t read) but solely BBM the movie and its treatment.

    Well, the movie follows the story pretty much point by point, apart from a couple of additions I haven’t seen you single out for criticism in any of your many critiques here at Towleroad regarding the film.

    >And I contend that there is a serious danger when the
    >model offered of a “gay” relationship on film is that of
    >two buddies exhibiting limited chemistry on screen,
    >beyond a vaguely pornographic one during their sex
    >scenes, and who we hear later on may or may not have
    >been gay.

    You know what, Brokeback Mountain doesn’t offer a “model”. It’s not a Lifetime movie or an ABC Afterschool Special or a Very Special Episode of Family Ties. It’s not a lesson.

    Brokeback Mountain tells a story, and a very compelling one at that, about two men and their doomed romance. While those two men happen to belong to a vast population of men who have been almost entirely ignored by the media and by the public, Annie Proulx didn’t write her short story to represent that population. She wrote it about those two men. It wasn’t filmed to represent any population or present any model, and it wasn’t designed to deliver any particular message. Brokeback Mountain instead chose to focus entirely on the story of these two men in love, and the situation they found themselves in as a result, the same way any traditional, straight romance would do. It’s this total lack of self-consciousness that helps to separate Brokeback Mountain from the largely sophomoric heap of insular, preachy and self-referential “queer cinema” that preceded it. The film is under absolutely no obligation to present an acceptable “model” of a gay relationship according to you or any other viewers, as it never promises to do so in the first place.

    >But those realities being true, doesn’t necessarly make
    >BBM a successful film at capturing them and rendering
    >it in a way that is compelling to all.

    It seems to me the problem is with your expectations and not with the film. Perhaps if you had spent less time staring at the baggage you’d brought with you to the theater and more time watching the screen, you might have seen the chemistry between the two characters, the love and longing they clearly shared for one another, and the agony their situation and their own denial of their true nature put them in.

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