Catholic Church | Gay Marriage | News | Pope Benedict

Pope: Catholic Position on Gay Marriage "Non-Negotiable"

Pope Benedict told Catholic legislators, politicians, and those in positions of power that they have a "grave responsibility before society" to uphold the views of the Catholic Church and defend certain "fundamental values".

Pope_4According to Reuters, "he said these [values] included 'respect for human life, its defense from conception to natural death, the family built on marriage between a man and a woman, the freedom to educate one's children and the promotion of the common good in all its forms.'"

Said the Pope: "These values are not negotiable."

The statements were made in a 140-page "booklet" drawn from an assembly of clergy which took place at the Vatican in 2005. In a statement that seemed directed at Italian leaders currently mulling over gay rights legislation, the Pope said Catholic leaders "must feel particularly bound, on the basis of a properly formed conscience, to introduce laws inspired by values grounded in human nature."

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  1. "Human nature" eh? So gay marriage it is?

    Posted by: scientitian | Mar 13, 2007 9:42:33 AM

  2. "...the promotion of common good in all it's forms." I think the man in the white dress needs to reconsider his stance on homosexuality if he thinks he's promoting the 'common good' by advocating denying gays the right to marry.

    Posted by: peterparker | Mar 13, 2007 9:48:24 AM

  3. "legislators, politicians, and those in positions of power" also need to remember who elects them in the first place. It's certainly not the Pope.

    They should represent all sectors of society who have placed them where they are. Ignore the Nazi in the dress.....

    Posted by: Roger K | Mar 13, 2007 9:55:31 AM

  4. Not negotiable, eh? My opinion of the Catholic Church is not negotiable either. It's unprintable.

    Posted by: phil | Mar 13, 2007 10:19:39 AM

  5. Let's hope the progressives in the Anglican church can stay steadfast and show "His Holiness" the way. The Roman Catholic church has been lurching backwards since the 1960s, and its sad.

    Posted by: John | Mar 13, 2007 10:21:19 AM

  6. Gee I guess Nazi philosophy is hard to forget.... Wouldn't be surprised if he had the fucking flag in his office.

    Posted by: Nick | Mar 13, 2007 10:42:27 AM

  7. proving the pope has never read the bible.

    Posted by: vince | Mar 13, 2007 10:44:05 AM

  8. He's Pope-a-licious! I wonder how many naughty thoughts about choir boys he had today?

    Posted by: homer | Mar 13, 2007 10:53:39 AM

  9. My opposition to the Catholic Church and all the evil it stands for is non-negotiable.

    Keep it up, Beenadick. Keep talking. Dig a deeper hole, why don't ya.

    Posted by: Jonathon | Mar 13, 2007 10:59:39 AM

  10. Fundamental values? Hmmm. This includes the horrific cover-up of priests' molestation of young boys?

    Posted by: Jack | Mar 13, 2007 11:13:22 AM

  11. I usually hate those dumb-ass "self-loathing" arguments, but this time I'd fall for it. This guy is a miserable gay man who's resentful and angry at people pursuing the opportunities that he never had a chance at pursuing himself. His response is to try and crush that opportunity for everone in a futile attempt to dilute his bitterness.

    It's a sad story really. When people don't have the chance or the courage to love, all that potential for joy turns to anger, hate, and resentment. If I were a better person I'd pity him.

    Posted by: zlexar | Mar 13, 2007 11:23:24 AM

  12. I certainly don't believe in some old man god, benevolent or malevolent. And I don't subscribe to a Bronze Age text written by a bunch of guys who claimed to have god in their heads. But this big-hatted mofo says it's the word of god. So why is he skipping pages?

    Matthew 7:1-2
    1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

    Romans 2:1
    You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

    Romans 14:10,13
    10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 13...therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another...

    James 4:11-12
    11... Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it... 12... who are you to judge your neighbour?

    1 Corinthians 4:5
    Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

    Posted by: Michael | Mar 13, 2007 12:17:57 PM

  13. Yeah, Pope Nosferatu stands behind the morality of his church; the same church that was motivated by greed to steal the gold from the Americas and that was responsible for the detruction of New World civilizations and the massacre of tens of millions of natives. That's the man I would listen to about human nature and the respect for human life. Fuck him.

    Posted by: Bill | Mar 13, 2007 12:34:50 PM

  14. F*ck him. He has a casket waiting.

    Posted by: Jack! | Mar 13, 2007 2:13:01 PM

  15. Who cares what these people think? They are irrelevant.

    Posted by: Terry | Mar 13, 2007 4:41:51 PM

  16. I disagree. They are not irrelevant. His speeches are listened to around the world and when he talks like this it only further encourages marginalization of and violence against homos.

    Posted by: Michael | Mar 13, 2007 5:01:29 PM

  17. Um, what's the problem here? The Pope is simply validating church teachings that have been central to the Catholic Church since it's inception through Jesus to Peter as the first Pope. As Catholics, we are obliged to follow the teachings of the Church as defined and defended by the Magisterium. I'm Catholic, gay, and perfectly at peace with the idea of marriage between a man and a woman. Call me a fool all you want, guys and girls, but if you don't like the Catholic Church, then don't be Catholic. Frankly, you have a lot of nerve asking the Church to conform to your will. Fight the good fight for civil unions and leave the Church out of it. One man's opionon.

    Posted by: Bill | Mar 13, 2007 5:57:47 PM

  18. Gosh, Bill, I don't think most posters here are asking the Catholic church to "conform to [their] will." We are simply expressing disrespect, repulsion, and criticism for pope Benedict and the Church's position on this matter. What's wrong with that?

    You may be obliged to follow the teachings of the church, but the rest of us are well within our rights to call this jerk on his pious pronouncements. He can criticize us, and we can criticize him. Nobody really thinks anyone's going to change. No problem here.

    Your advice on fighting the "good fight for civil unions" is very honorable. It's too bad you can't join that fight, since the church is vehemently opposed to those as well - and as a good Catholic, you're obliged to follow the church's teachings. If you ever change your mind, though, we'll be happy to have you on the team.

    Posted by: zlexar | Mar 13, 2007 7:17:42 PM

  19. Way to go Bill. It's great how everyone thinks religion has to bend for them. That's not how it works. And that's why as I've gotten older I can see how only 44,000 people will be saved at the end of the world. People are so mis-led thinking that just because they don't kill people, they are going to Heaven. Homosexuality is wrong, it is not natural, and the church will not bend on it ever. God doesn't have to bend for you. Religion requires a life of sacrifice. THAT is how you get eternal glory after you die, beyond any happiness you could experience here.

    And to other people on here, get over the past bullshit..."the destruction of New World civilizations and the massacre of tens of millions of natives." You're only mad because the entire world doesn't conform to you.

    And to the person who quoted the Bible about not judging...the Pope is not JUDGING. He is upholding teachings that have been passed down for centuries. If any of you gay people walked up to the Pope to talk to him, he would not ignore you, treat you like garbage or disrespect you based on your sexual preference. THAT would be judgement. It's just like we have laws for civil order. They have to be upheld for the good of safety. These rules are upheld for the good of the church and human souls. Quit your whining and bitching because it's not going to change. Religion doesn't bend for you. It doesn't have to. You have free will to do as you please, so you can continue living life as you want. But quit expecting others to conform to your beliefs and support your lifestyle. Because they won't. I don't agree with homosexuality, but I certainly wouldn't judge you or spit on you or say I'm homophobic. I'm not afraid of gay people. That's what phobias are. We just don't agree with your lifestyle; same as how christians don't agree with heterosexuals having pre-marital sex or extramarital affairs.

    Posted by: Joy | Mar 13, 2007 7:41:16 PM

  20. You said:

    "Quit your whining and bitching because it's not going to change. Religion doesn't bend for you."

    Sorry, Joy, but religion HAS changed under the pressure of public opinion. Those "eternal, unchanging truths" you keep blathering about are actually quite flexible. Heck, the Catholic Church has changed their position on granting women the right to vote, slavery, the structure of the solar system, and so on. The Mormon Church has changed their position on polygamy (after they swore they never would) and the role of blacks in the church. The episcopalians have changed regarding the ordination of women. Most of these turnabouts came after society had already made major transformations in these areas.

    What does this mean? It means we have a right to speak and a right to change people's minds - and if we succeed, we may even see the most obstinate and self-assured religions change their tune when civilized, honorable people begin turning their backs on them. Change is possible, Joy. In fact, it's quite likely. You can insist all you want that it'll never happen, but that doesn't make it true.

    Posted by: zlexar | Mar 13, 2007 8:06:58 PM

  21. Mormons and episcopalians aren't under the leadership of the pope. secondly, the church doesn't bend on pillars of faith.

    yes indeed you are free to speak your mind, as we are free to practice as we believe. The church is not going to suddenly say you can marry your partner in our churches, that sex before marriage is ok, that aborting babies is ok, etc. you can be sure the world's end is near if that happens. The world doesn't have to bend to you either. It's obvious neither side will agree, so you live your life the way you want, and we'll live ours. It would seem to me you aren't a follower anyway, so what difference does it make to you what the pope thinks? You're going to do what you want anyway. Stop trying to make the world conform to you. We can all co-exist, but you aren't going to accept your beliefs, we aren't accepting yours. We accept you as a human, and as one of God's children, but not your actions or your choice of lifestyle. No matter how much you expect the world to conform to you, it won't. So let's agree to disagree here. I really don't see why this issue matters so much to you, if you feel the church isn't for you anyway.

    Posted by: Joy | Mar 13, 2007 9:14:55 PM

  22. The church doesn't bend on pillars of faith? Do a little research and tell me if it was always the church's position that the Virgin Mary was assumed into heaven, never suffering death. Get back to me on that.

    I don't have any problem with you having your faith. I'm not asking it to bend to me. I was raised Catholic, but I have no interest in returning to the church. What I would like is for the Pope to stop pressuring Catholic politicians to bend to his will. Why is it that the church's followers keeping their religion is NOT enough for him? Why does he threaten Rome's politicians when they consider civil unions? See? It's not OK for Catholics, but he is trying to make it not OK for ANYONE, regardless of their religion or lack thereof. He's done the same thing with trying to exert influence on the US gov't through pressure on Catholic politicians. So it's not me trying to foist my opinions on the church, but obviously and forcefully the other way around.

    Posted by: Michael | Mar 13, 2007 9:31:28 PM

  23. Joy -

    My points on the episcopalians and mormons wasn't about the pope, but merely part of my argument that many religions have changed their positions on VERY important social issues. It could happen again.

    Regarding your point: "I really don't see why this issue matters so much to you, if you feel the church isn't for you anyway."

    Joy, I would have NO PROBLEM with the Catholic Church and the Pope if he was simply sticking to matters involving church ceremony and sanction. He can tell catholics what to do all he wants, and they can choose to obey him all they want. I may not approve, but it's really none of my business. What I object to is the pope trying to influence the secular laws of a nation regarding the rights and privileges of citizens, many of whom aren't even catholic. That's what the entire article was about! When the pope sticks his nose out of the church and into the legal process, he's trying to affect my life. That makes it my business. Perhaps if he stops trying to alter my world, I'll stop trying to alter his. Does that sound reasonable?

    Lastly, I see the same theme repeated several times in your latest post (and in your previous one):
    ..."The world doesn't have to bend to you either..."
    "Stop trying to make the world conform to you."
    "No matter how much you expect the world to conform to you, it won't."

    We're not trying to take over the world, if that's what you're suggesting - we just want to make it a better place for our kind. And I don't really care if people agree with me or not - I am perfectly comfortable with disapproving looks and silent rebukes coming at me from the faithful. I've lived with those for years. I just care that I can visit my partner in the hospital even if his family objects, and that I can't be fired from my job.

    As far as the world 'not conforming' to my way of thinking - well, the civil rights movement, the suffragist movement, etc. never would have happened if determined people didn't think they could change the world for the better. None of those fights was easy, and both times the majority objected. And vast numbers still remain who disagree with the outcome. I expect the same thing this time around, but I also expect victory.

    Posted by: zlexar | Mar 13, 2007 9:47:54 PM

  24. Joy probably had pre-martial sex since 98% do. I wish I could be as self-righteous as she is. She is ignorant of history as Michael and Zlexar pointed out. Another thing, marriage was NOT a religous institution until 600 years ago when christians decided they needed to control that as well. It was a CIVIL institution for far longer. Look up the history.

    Posted by: Jack! | Mar 14, 2007 12:20:33 AM

  25. To Nick and Roger K...


    Isn't it just a little more then childish to call a person a Nazi just because they happen to come from Germany and you disagree with their opinion? As a person with a German background myself I find it completely remarkable and offensive that others such as yourselves can go around still calling people by these things. Not only is it offensive and in a way racist, its also extraordinarily hurtful.

    Please do grow up before you start hurling insults at people simply because you have differing views on things. This article is about Gay Marriage... not Nazis.

    Posted by: Cecelyn | Mar 14, 2007 1:42:22 AM

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