Terrence Howard: Don’t Judge Gays Because We All Sin


Terrence Howard, currently starring in Pride, a film with the gayest key art and title ever for a film having nothing to do with homosexuals (it’s about a swim team for troubled black teens), recently said that although he disagrees with homosexuality, he can’t judge others because he too has sinned, though not in the Biblical homosexual sense:

Said Howard, who made the statement with an eye on the homo-bashing Hip-Hop community: “Do I agree with homosexuality? No, I’m a Bible-based young man. But I know the Bible also speaks about homosexuality with liars, adulterers, thieves. I’ve lied, I’ve cheated on my wife, I’ve stolen. So how can I judge somebody for something that’s mentioned in the same exact scripture? I believe we’re all sinners. We’re all trying to make it but our hip-hop community are a bunch of hypocrites right now.”

You may have missed…
Gay Rapper Deadlee: Homophobic Eminem Picks Easy Targets [tr]
Rapper Deadlee Calls Out Homophobic Eminem, 50 Cent, and DMX [tr]


  1. peterparker says

    yeah and we all know lying, cheating, and stealing are just as terrible as loving someone. what an idiot.

  2. CF says

    Bitch better never EVER be seen eating a shrimp or I’ll slap him with a Hypocrite citation.

    Wonder how he feels about smiting adulterers?

    Why am I wasting my keystrokes on some c-list nobody?

  3. ebsur says

    I totally thought Terrance Howard was gay. I mean, totally. I guess he’s not? But who did he cheat on his wife with, I wonder?

  4. db says

    Even though I personally disagree with his personal beliefs I respect it. There’s no hate coming from his beliefs. This is not a “I hate homosexuals” statement. Like it or love it there are many many people who believe that Homosexuality is a sin. Again I don’t agree but I don’t hold it against him. They’re just his beliefs. I would much rather deal with a person like him than with someone who calls themselves a “christian” on one hand and thinks I’m going to hell alone.

  5. AMS says

    What a jerk. Does he consider fornication outside of the bounds of wedlock to be sin? Because I’m betting he’s doing it right now. I read he’s dating Naomi Campell – do you suppose the ‘biblical young man’ goes on hand-holding dates to the local pizza parlor with Naomi? Do you suppose they kiss goodnight outside her Manhattan penthouse (without tongue!) when he drops her off after bowling? Puh-lease! What a double standard.

  6. Jason says

    As I wrote with J-Hud, I appreciate that Howard is at least trying to make an effort to reconcile his religious beliefs with his discomfort with homophobia.

    It amazes me how people are so quick to call him stupid and brain washed — isn’t Howard’s “live and let live” and “who am I to judge” attitude the best possible one we can really hope for in a pluralistic society?

    It wasn’t so long ago that mainstream black celebrities were making awful f*g jokes (Eddie Murphy) or playing up their discomfort with gay roles (Will Smith). Hudson and Howard’s recent remarks might not make some of the people here happy, but at least they’re displaying a forward evolution for a community that is often decried as homophobic.

  7. nyc says

    Jason, good use of examples of two of Hollywood’s biggest closet cases: Will Smith and Eddie Murphy. (Just ask Johnny Gill!)

    Maybe Terence doth protest too much, as well…

  8. jimmyboyo says

    As I mentioned in another post

    jesus healed the Roman centurion’s SLAVE without one word or teaching against said slavery. Never one teaching against slavery which spread far and wide in the ancient world. the Roman centurion in particular under roman law was allowed to rape, beat, kill, own said slave’s children, etc his slave which jesus so obligingly healed so said slave could go slave away for another man being unable to escape said slavery via death. paul wrote “slaves OBEY your masters”

    So according to the bible this ignorant homophobic mofo’s ancestors should never have been freed and he should be in chains somewhere because jesus never ever condemned slavery rather by his silence he condoned it

    The bible should have the new title “myths for idiots”

  9. paxx says

    I wonder how one can “disagree” with homosexuality? What is next – “disagreement” with gravity? Time? Weather?

  10. anon says

    I think the point of sin is that you can criticize the sinner and judge them. The problem is the miscategorization of sin. That and the list is a bit moldy.

  11. says

    Folk calm down. First he’s an actor so why we care is beyond me. Second, while his words are not perfect they show more sensitivity than we usually hear. I’ll take Howard any day of the week over someone else mouthing anti-gay junk.

  12. jimmyboyo says

    Michael :-)

    James….Oh wow, so we should grovel before this fool and thank our lucky stars that at least he isn’t trying to kill us. F that. How about no homophobia at all as the goal instead of ‘at least he isn’t…..blah blah blah”

    get some pride man :-)

  13. db says


    I don’t think anyone is saying grovel. People are just expressing their opinion on his comment. No I don’t think people should grovel but I also don’t think that they should condemn him because he has a religious belief.

  14. jimmyboyo says


    Well, I do believe in condeming him andy everyone else in the world with a mythological view point.

    Lets see….xtians in particular for 2,000 years massacered whole nations that would not convert, burned midwives and herbalists at the stake…oh and by the way tossed us gays tied up onto the wood piles to burn said ‘witches” The conotation of faggo0t with us is that we were turned into “faggots” tied up bunc=dles of wood and used in the burning of “witches’ = midwives, lesbians, and herbalists

    F that crap. Get some pride. All religion is myth. This guy’s religion in particular openly condones slavery which his ancestors were a victim of.

    ALL homophobia no matter how nicely seeming (as compared to actual bashing) is our enemy and the enemy of rational though in the 21st century

  15. jimmyboyo says


    sorry for the typos.

    They are getting worse than normal. I must be getting worked up


  16. Silas says

    “So according to the bible this ignorant homophobic mofo’s ancestors should never have been freed and he should be in chains somewhere because jesus never ever condemned slavery rather by his silence he condoned it”

    I wonder what kind of example you’d use if he’d been white.

  17. says


    Where did I say grovel? All I said is Howard is light years ahead of other folk. Jeesh man here is what he ends with: “We’re all trying to make it but our hip-hop community are a bunch of hypocrites right now.”

    Does he have the HRC talking points down cold? No. But to be honest I wouldn’t trust him if he did. He’s an ally. Is he perfect? No, but I’ll take an imperfect ally over an enemy every time.

    As for the pride charge, that is so silly I’m not even going to respond.

  18. jimmyboyo says


    My example could cover anyone wether white or black since Roman slaves had a large white european contigent. Take it as far back as you want…..every single one of our xtian enemies according to the bible would probably still be in chains as slaves if we actualy took every word and dot in that myth as real.

    Tell me, are you trying to turn my comments around to a racist slant because you actualy believe the idiotic mythos in the bible and are offended at my trashing it? Are you a believer in the myth jesus that completely supported slavery if by no other reason as his silence= compliance

  19. db says


    I happen to be a religious person who happens to be Gay. No I don’t believe that being Gay is a sin. That’s my personal belief system. I also don’t believe that drinking is a sin or wearing makeup is a sin but there are religions that do.

    I respect them the same way I want to be respected. As far as the White comment I can honestly say that race has nothing to do with it. But honestly Jimmybo. To you personally, how did this become a racial issue. Not asking for an argument or anything but Gay people who tend to have racial concerns, issues, whatever interests me. I’m serious.

  20. jimmyboyo says


    Lets also look at the racism of said messiah myth jesus

    in Mathew he tells the apostles to not let a gentile woman near him since as a rabi he would become unclean if a gentile touched him….they couldn’t keep her back, she approached him for a healing and he said that all non jews were dogs undeserving of healing and that he only came for israel…

    Wow, how idiotic can people be to believe in such a racist fucker for 2,000 years that even if he was real didn’t come to save any gentiles=non jews

    xtianity= myth for idiots

    all religions= ditto

  21. jimmyboyo says


    There was no racial component till you created one.

    I do wonder at how crazy you must be to believe in a myth to save you that in the book of mathew specificaly calls any non-jews DOGS undeserving of miracles and he didn’t come to save. The myths own words

    I also wonder how as a gay man you can follow such a myth when jesus did say “I did not come to destroy the law but fulfill it” In other words that old canard of jesus didn’t say anything against gays does not stand at all. He did and it was condemnation otherwise he would have condemned the parts of the law that condemned us gays. The myth instead upheld the law of moses 100% and even went so far as saying suppsodly “not one word shall pass away from the law till the end of time” Since the earth still exists and time has not ended then m=your suppsoed savior upholds the law of moses that totaly condemns us gays.

    Free yourself from the self hating myth

    if you need some kind of spiritual crutch then find some old time pagan gay god to worship…there are tons

  22. says


    What?!?!?!?!?!?!?! So now you are saying that to be a Christian is to be an idiot? So the Jesuits are dumb? Cornel West is an idiot? Listen I’m a born again atheist but to label people of faith as dumb is sort of silly.

  23. db says


    Sorry. I read the post too fast. I thought that you made the White comment not Silas. Please accept my appology. As far as religion goes. I don’t see my religious believe as self hatrated because in my eyes being Gay isn’t a mistake or a sin.

  24. jimmyboyo says

    James yes they are dumb and brainwashed

    their own myth says as non jews he did not come to save them plain as day in the book of mathew

    in his own words he says the law of moses will not pass away till the end of time and that he supported the law of moses that openly calls for our stoning

    Uhm that is the worse kind of self hate

    said myth also supported slavery

    Time to evolve people.

    budha condemned us as sinful
    mohamed though we should be stoned
    the hindus classed us as untouchables
    moses said stone the gays

    In other words YES any gay man that is a believer in any of the above myths is a self hating idiot and if you really need a spiritual crutch then find a gay pagan god to fulfill that need for a daddy figure in the clouds

  25. SGR says

    It’s a common position for Christians, who think the Bible is the word of God, and who see verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality, to take. In Howard’s case, he thinks he’s actually being pro-gay.

    The last person I recall using that “we’re all sinners” line on homosexuality was President Bush. I like what Michael Signorile had to say about it at the time:

    “By claiming that “we’re all sinners” in response to a question about homosexuality, Bush is really telegraphing to his religious- right base: “Homosexuality is a grave sin, but we all commit some sort of sin, even if it’s not as bad as that of homosexuals. Let’s let them live, even though we shouldn’t treat them equally.” The proof of that lies in his contention that those who engage in the sin of homosexuality are to be banned from marriage, while the rest of the sinners are free to marry to their hearts’ content.”

  26. Da says

    Fair enough, he’s allowed his opinions, and he possibly means well.

    But I’ve always felt that this kind of soundbites shouldn’t be news in our community.

    It only serves to attach the way we feel we about ourselves, with what (ONE) actor has to say. And that just brings the moral of the community down.

    The better story here is that he regrets there might never a gay rapper, and condemns the hypocrisy of the hip-hop world.

  27. Silas says

    “Tell me, are you trying to turn my comments around to a racist slant because you actualy believe the idiotic mythos in the bible and are offended at my trashing it?”


    After I read Howard’s comments I wasn’t surprised or shocked one bit and one thing I knew is that this man could be shown the truth easier than you think. I’ve come across people like Howard who used this kind of logic and it didn’t take long to prove to them how easy their argument failed. People like Howard are good people who simply don’t get it and need a hand.

    Why did I see a racist slant in your post? Because I’m sick of getting on blogs that features a powerless black homophobe (Howard) with dozens of comments made by supposedly white liberal homosexuals ragging on the guys race and/or ancestry when every now and then a powerful homophobe is featured (lets Dobson) and not only does someone like him get few comments but there’s absolutely no allusion to his race.

    We can respectfully engage with Howard and others without trashing their beliefs for the love of god.

    I’m just sick of gay liberal hypocrasy, thats all.

  28. jimmyboyo says

    DB…I do not believe you have an overt conscious form of self hate. But you must realize that the jesus myth was not a nice guy. he was racist, a supporter of slavery, and a supporter of the law of moses that did call for our stoning to death. knowing that if you wish to persist in believing in said myth then I would say you should talk to someone about your self image.

  29. jimmyboyo says

    here we go

    The exact quote where the crazy jesus myth supports the law that supports our deaths

    “That till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law” Mathew 5:18

    and what exactly does the law say about us gays “a man shall not lie with another man as if with a woman. they shall be taken fromt he city and stoned to death”

    In other words the jesus myth supported 100% our deaths for being gay

    Why any gay guy would even try to reconcile said crazyness with themselves is beyond me. I tried it once long ago and it drove me nuts. the “well jesus never said anything against us gays” does not fly since the law most assuredly does and in the myth’s own words he supported the law 100%++++++ and not one word of it would change till the end of the earth

    Free yourself from the homophobic myth. don’t even try to reconcile it to yourself…just toss it along with moses, mohamed, budha, krishna, etc

    Apollo loved a man, zeus loved ganymede, antinous was made into a god man by the ancients a particularly GAY deity….if you need the crutch then pick a gay pagan god though I would prefer you all had no crutches

  30. Nick says

    I truly admire your religious conviction. I was raised in a Christian home all my life. I have felt the fellowship of being part of the congregation. But I’m sorry I can’t fully agree with you about the bibles stance on homosexuality. In both the old and new testament god tells the people (through his prophets and apostles) that being gay is wrong. And as sad as it is there is no refuting it.
    Although he is a little crude Jimmyboyo is right. Although I no long hold the Christian faith to be true I do agree with you that one should still respect the faiths of others.
    Unfortunately if we are to stay true to the actually teachings of god, we can not just ignore the parts of the bible that we don’t like or agree with. It is all or nothing. And for you to take it all then you are agreeing that being gay is wrong. I’m not trying to point any fingers of accusation, what you believe is your business.
    I believe that man has a spiritual side that should be nurtured and expressed. I also feel that the Christian aspect of spirituality is wrong. It is not right to rule over the masses with fear. And that is the main tool of the Christian faith. Underlining all of the love and compassion that that faith teaches is a fear of the lord God. A fear that if you displease him you will burn in eternal torment. If that were the case then why go through all of the trouble to give us free will? Did god set us up to fail? It was always my understanding that God loves all of his children equally and with out bias. But for that to ring true then how can god make some people gay? Knowing that he would make homosexuality an abomination in his eyes, why even throw it in? A God that is both the source of weal and woe for his people is not a God of endless love.

  31. John says

    I heard that Mr. Howard made $9,000 (Nine Thousand Dollars) for his performance in Crash which went on to win best picture.

    I just don’t like bible thumpers, even the understading ones.

  32. says


    “In other words YES any gay man that is a believer in any of the above myths is a self hating idiot and if you really need a spiritual crutch then find a gay pagan god to fulfill that need for a daddy figure in the clouds.”

    You write some nonsense like this and you have the nerve to call Howard intolerant??!?! You are a funny man. Let’s agree to disagree brother.

  33. jimmyboyo says

    Nick, you are right

    I am crude in my presentation

    :-) It is time to go work out and put my zeal into conquering some weights.

    Though I would even disagree with you on the god of love thing. If there are any deities then they would be epitomes of what we observe in nature. Nature would be the mirror in which we see their faces and nature is not full of love. Nature is beautiful , majestic, overwhelming, awe insipring, capricous, uncarring about the fate of single individuals and animals, and quite cruel but even then beautiful in the blanace that is maintaned by said cruelty. The rabit dies to feed the eagle’s babies. A loving deity? Not evident in the mirror of nature. More a lovecroftian deity or set of deities that are humongous forces beyond our understanding and like small fishes with whales we get caught up in the wake of their passing. Respect them but they pay no attention to a single individual much like you do not pay attention to a single cell in your body. Thw whole being greater then the sum of the parts though might be loved by said deities if they exist.

  34. Seann says

    DA makes a whole lot of damn sense in a thread not containing a lot of it.

    Maybe it’s because I go to a catholic school so I’m a brainwashed atheist, but the side of Christianity a lot of people see (hate the sin not the sinner, gays are going to hell, etc.) is not the only side of the religion. Religion is a tool and it can be used for bad and good.

    Being a gay Christian does not mean you have to believe homosexuality is a sin. Like everything the Bible has and will have to evolve in order to stay relevant.

    Their are many things in the Bible that are not applicable to today’s standards and which has been discarded. Plus there’s the fact that God never said homosexuality was a sin flat out.

    Terrance Howard may be uneducated and narrow minded, but I prefer him over Tim Hardaway’s lot.

  35. Nick says

    Seann god said the it was an abomination before his eyes… thats as close to him saying its a sin then you can get. and if you read some of the post on the Matt Sanchez topic some people have quoted the book of romans where it says plain the gay is wrong…

    you really cant split the hairs on either of those statements in the bible and to try and do so shows that you are desperate to justify your beliefs.

  36. SGR says

    The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, someone with far more power than Terrance Howard, is in the news today for saying the exact same thing.

    This is going to confuse the racists because the General happens to be white.

    I think it would have been better to debate this guy’s view because it has a direct impact on gays in the military than a Hollywood actor who, in his misguided way, was trying to explain how he’s not homophobic.

    Here, you’ll see that the ‘we’re all sinners’ line actually hurts gays because it’s not about everyone sinning; it’s about being gay as immoral. Which means you can treat gays differently.

    From the Chicago Tribune:

    Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that he supports the Pentagon’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” ban on gays serving in the military because homosexuality is “immoral” and on par with having an extramarital affair.

    Addressing the controversial policy as part of a wide-ranging interview with the Tribune in Chicago, Pace said the military should not “condone” immoral behavior by allowing gay soldiers to serve openly. He said his views were based on his “upbringing,” in which certain types of conduct were thought to be immoral.


  37. jimmyboyo says

    SGR thank you for that heads up

    This buffoon in a uniform is forgetting to mention that when he was growing up he was also taught women were meant to be silent, pregnant, and barefoot in the kitchen.

    It is interesting to ntoe that the same bible he so loves also says that any man who shaves his beard must be taken out of the city and stoned to death because they are unclean. It also says that shrimp are evil. Booga Booga evil shrimp Booga Booga.

    The bible sure makes its myth god out to be an imbecile. Ahhhhhh shrimp and pigs are evil ahhhhhhh


    what crap written by desert dwelling, non bathing, flat world thinking, wiped their butts after pooping with their left hand (there actualy were jewish rules about which hand you were allowed to get poop on while wiping and which hand to eat with), goat herding, ignorant old and very very very arab looking men. So arab looking in fact that bush jr would declare them enemies of democracy and war against them and no american xtian would invite into their home for dinner. The white european descended jews of today in no way look like their ancestors because they interbred with europeans after the scattering to the 4 corners of the empire by the romans destroying judea.

  38. Nick says

    It also says that shrimp are evil. Booga Booga evil shrimp Booga Booga.

    Posted by: jimmyboyo | Mar 12, 2007 10:04:14 PM


  39. jimmyboyo says



    We can agree on something then

    To laugh is wonderful and can bring differing sides together.

  40. Chester says

    I’m with Jimmyboyo on this one. I agree that, while respecting the right to have religious beliefs is essential in a free society, there is no mandate to respect the beliefs themselves.
    And isn’t it dishonest to respect all beliefs equally?

  41. rufus says

    To all those who are surprised at the tone of the commments on this thread and blog, please understand that this is a blog for and about gay white men only. Anything beyond this is greeted with suspicion, hate and dismissal.

    If you want to discuss what the latest dumb nigger has to say about gays, then there are several other blogs you can visit for a more reasoned dialogue.

    Andy, no more coloreds here please.

  42. Silar says

    “This buffoon in a uniform is forgetting to mention that when he was growing up he was also taught women were meant to be silent, pregnant, and barefoot in the kitchen.”

    But were they really?

  43. sean says

    joint chief of staffs peter pace is a fucktard. what i find immoral is his inability to form a complete thought on his own rather than merely echoing the ignorance of his father.

  44. soulbrotha says

    Terence Howard comes out and speaks his honest belief from his Christian upbringing (nothing new) and gets bashed by you people.

    Madonna hawks Ka-blah-blah which is also anti-gay, and nobody calls her “jerk” or “stupid”. No, they call her “fabulous”.

    What the fuck is wrong THIS picture??

    “Officer Barbrady, I call shenanigans!”

  45. Jimmyboyo says

    Chester :-)

    So rufus just because the ignoramous is african american we should simply just embrace his hate instead of getting incissed about it? In other words you are saying “those poor colored people don’t know any better let us give him a pass” Who is the racist? The man is an ignoramous wether red, white, black, or blue. Thanks to SGR we also have heard the comments of a white ignoramous. Both are equaly ignorant and both were brainwashed by the same exact ignorant fairytale while growing up. Color has nothing to do with it.

    Lets see, what other wonderfuly unenlightening things does the bible teach….oh here is one in the book of joshua the sun moves around the earth. Wait a minute didn’t galileo go to jail for teaching the exact opposite for “indeed the earth does move”

    The book of job has unicorns in it(actualy 1 of 9 books in total in the bible that have unicorns in it). Unicorns for crying out loud and we are suppsoed to respect such a fairytale that its adherents swear and be damned is straight from gawwwwwwddddd. LOL I enjoy a good sci-fi/ fantasy fairytale but I do not base my life upon it.

    Moses was a murderer…….he killed an egyptian and was rightfuly prosecuted for such as any civilization would have done to a murderer yet a bunch of desert dwelling flat world thinking ignoramouses tell us he was a great and mighty prophet. So …..what…we can all go out and murder as much as we want and then eat a bit of ergot and halucinate the voice of god and get a religion started up in our name? LOL

    It is all crap, not even original crap…..genesis is a plagerised version of the babylonian creation myth.

    There is no jesus in his heaven, no moses and yaweh blessing the jews as the chosen people, no mohamed taken up to allah, no budha who was spiritualy wise, no krishna, etc etc etc ad infinitum. The mere fact that there are so many cancels them all out.

    Not all can be true. Only one or none at all, and science and logic have shown that none are true.

    Peace to all :-)

  46. Jack! says

    I’m not going to accept Peter Pace or Terrence Howard or George Bush’s comments, plain and simple. They believe that they are not homophobic when they are. They undermine gay people’s lives from health care to housing to jobs. Gay people recieve substandard health care or are afraid to go to the doctor because of what treatment they might recieve. Gay people are discriminated in housing. Gay men earn less even though they are more likely to be college educated. Lesbian women earn the same amount as straight women (which is less than men) even though they are way more likely to have a better education. Not to mention not being able to live openly completely. I’ve never saw a gay couple holding hands outside of a “safe” zones.

  47. Silas says

    I already typed this up but it didn’t post…


    Since treading the gay waters I’ve seen a lot of gay men hype up atheism and degrade religion (preferably Christianity/Judaism) with such “positive” enthusiasm. But the funny thing about all of them is that they never have any recommendations for a philosophy that can tend to the soul. Well, except for amorality and nihilism as long as its kept within the borders of live and let live. Most of the guys who live by these concepts reveal related symptoms. There’s constant sadness, grief, vanity, sexual amorality, apathy, and superficiality.

    And here’s something that sort of surprised me. Religious gay men are usually more happier and content. They’re men who exercise restraint when it comes to sexual pursuit. They’re men who constantly try to better themselves and the lives of those around them. There are more positives but you get the drift. I’m not saying an atheistic gay man isn’t capable of this (I’m an atheist), I’m just saying that I think gay men need something to nurture our “souls” and a bunch of ranting and raving over religion and the religious doesn’t do a damn thing. Go to the gay meccas of the world, Montrose, Christopher St, Castro, swing a cat and it doesn’t take more than two tries to hit and unfulfilled homosexual.

    What philosophy do you have Jimmy? You seem more enlightened than the ancients. Come down from you mountain and let me see your tablets.

  48. Jimmyboyo says

    Silas first prove that there is a soul and then we can discus tending to it.

    The golden rule “do unto others as you would have done unto you” offered up by many as a benefit of xtianity was actualy coined by Epicurus hundreds of years pre xtianity by a greek materialist philosopher and atheist “since we know the gods affect nothing why pray to them?”

    As far as sexual morality quote unquote. Would it surprise you that i being an atheist support monogamy? Monogamy that I have observed and science has observed as being natural for many different animal species has such as ravens, swans, coyotes, and gibons (lesser apes) which are cousins of ours and very similar to our ancient ancestors.

    Nature is the philosophy you seek silas.

    Murder and so called moral laws…Plato..a civilization is a single organism and as such the individuals compromise for the smooth running of such. In other words yoru individual cells compromise to create a greater smoother working whole. the morality of why not to murder is better served by logic…..for the smooth running of a civilization and the benefit of the group.

    Your bs about atheists being unhappy is the same BS that xtians and muslims and hindus all spout when confronted by other beliefs. They/ you project your own lack of fulfilment from your crazy beliefs on us. Since you are unhappy with your crazy beliefs then we must be even unhappier. Sorry bud, you are wrong.

    Otherwise first prove that there is a soul. your name was given to you bothers against your will. Your moods and emotions…your moral choices have already been proven by science to be so subject to sleep, a healthy meal, etc that you have no free choice. Science has already shown that a daily vitamine added to a diet can boost IQ scores and alter moods. etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    silas, pedal your snake oil somewhere else.

  49. mark m says


    You know I love you man.

    But let me play devil’s advocate for a moment to make a point. You feel passionately about your view that all religions are frauds and have no worth.

    Religous people hold on to their belief systems just as passionately.

    Why is your belief system better than theirs? Because of the problems caused by religion? Ok, lots of problems exist because of religion.


    Therefore, millions of followers of your particular belief system, if given enough power, could oppress others who do not agree with their views.

    Take the Soviet Union, for example. Most Communist countries are secular and not just secular but Anti-religious. The former USSR and the current China have deplorable human rights records.

    But wouldn’t a government that is essentially atheist be LESS prone to corruption and the extinguishing of individual freedom?

    Apparently not.

    When you group all people of faith into one basket of crazy you are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    Christianity, as all other belief systems are flawed… but you haven’t convinced (me anyway) why your particular world view is so much more civilized.

  50. mark m says

    “Well, except for amorality and nihilism”

    Silas, the reason nihilism is the most fraudulent belief system of all is because it cancels itself out. Nihilist: Nothing matters.

    Re: Neither does Nihilism, so a Nihilist overrules his own position.

  51. Jack! says

    Oh come on Silas. You think only religious people are moral? You are so wrong in that regard.

  52. Jimmyboyo says

    Mark M


    I would argue that rusia was not a true atheist country nor has there ever been a truly atheist system.

    Russia allowed religion….state sanctioned and state picked prelates were very much allowed to preach xtianity from the pulpits. China has the government sanctioned Chinese Catholic Church (the state picks and ordains the ministers and bishops) as vs the roman catholic…etc

    Russia in particular did have a state religion as well. The worship of the state itself.

  53. Silas says

    Well although I feel some quotes in my post were taken out of context, I won’t be adressing to much. This is my last post as we could go on forever an ever.

    Soul: When I speak of a soul, I speak of your consciousness, or will you tell me a consciousness doesn’t exist?

    Religious morality: I never said religious people were more moral. I said that in comparison, religious GAY men exhibited more prowess for self-preservation as well as exhibiting happiness and general wellbeing. Again, I know there are a ton of anomalies.

    Nature: Humans aren’t instinctual animals, we’re conceptual. We’re also different from one another. Just because a bunch of nature hoodoo voodoo makes you happy and works for you doesn’t mean it works for everyone.

    You paint out as some religious nut whos everyones kind of enemy. Please, for the love of GOD, growup. You seriously don’t look different AT ALL from the funde-Christians your so against. Everything you accuse me of, it looks like it can be turned right around on you. No one’s trying to force anything down your throat but go back and read this thread.

    There’s only one person trying to force their beliefs down everyone’s throat.

  54. Jimmyboyo says


    Nature hoodo vooddo


    I meant nothing of the sort

    I meant get your butt ouside and take a look around you. Not go hug a tree, but rather read some science books. Not hoodoo voodoo but rather things proven as fact by experiement and observation.

    Ooga Booga Ooga Booga I guess I must be ratteling my biology book and my physics books as witch doctors used to ratle their bones. LOL

    Silas you also make sweeping generalizations about people. Scientificaly unprovable statements about people’s happiness. Where as my crude and yes cruel statements about religous people (any and all religions) are crazy is scientificaly proovable….visions and voices= schizophrenia

    Humans are very much instinctual animals. To say otherwise just shows that you need to take a few science classes. Science has already proven that 1 multi-vitamine added to your diet will boost emotions and boost IQ scores by a large percentage. Scientificaly proven fact. sleep and lack of sleep will adrasticaly affect you. etc etc etc When the very nature of your being that you claim as consciousness is subject to such winds and waves of change by the simplest things then one can say there is no such thing as a non biological expresion of consciousness.

    Nope, sorry no soul seen in the lens of my microscope.

  55. says

    Being a gay Christian is hard. Alot of times you run into people who ‘share’ your faith that think you are immoral and disgusting and shouldn’t be allowed into Jesus’ eternal arms. That’s hard.

    Then I remember I am a Christian. Not a ‘Churchian’. I have a desire to follow Christ and HIS teachings, not the church’s. In the Bible Jesus’ words are published in red. You show me where anti-gay messages are appearing in red and I’ll think twice about things.

    The only time homosexuality is mentioned it is the same paragraph as not being able to consume shellfish and stoning misbehaving children. People, these are NOT Biblical laws. They are cultural laws. Then why are they in the Bible, right?

    Any historian will tell you the Bible is a great source for actual, factual history. Maybe not the wine into water stuff, but the persecution, crucifixions and laws are very real. So some scribe got the message wrong? Get over it. The Bible wasn’t actually written by Jesus…or the twelve apostles. It was written by scribes hundreds of years after Jesus died. And have any of you played telephone?

    After years of being repeated by word of mouth someone wrote it down…and got some parts wrong.

    There’s even a post here saying to choose a homosexual, Pagan god if you’re going to choose any…how rediculous. You want homo-erotica in the Bible that isn’t condemned? What about John being the one ‘whom Jesus loved’? Did you know in the Bible Jesus heals a gay Roman soldiers ‘partner’? And John used to watch Jesus teach…from Jesus’ lap! It’s in there! John would rest his head in Jesus’ lap while he taught…how beautiful!

    And, no soul? I shudder to think of it! Telling me to get ‘outside’ to read some science books is the most oxy’moronic’ thing I’ve ever read on Towleroad. I taught evolutionary biology for 3 years on Catalina Island off the coast of California and I can tell you indeed, sir, that humans do share a ‘consciousness’ and that we do, indeed, have a soul. And that collective consciousness may ONLY be summed up as God.

    He is in all things and will remain all things forever and ever. He is what binds the fabric of the universe together. He is the IS. All you need to do to really see it is to go snorkelling. Watch a magnificent sunset. Watch an egg hatch and tell me that it’s not perfect. Perfection doesn’t just happen. It IS.

  56. Bmf6c says

    I’m a Buddhist. And my thought on this is that some folks are getting upset because Howard didn’t say what you wanted him to say. I understand the hurt that comes with the sort of “rejection” that his comments can represent, but I’d ask that you suspend /sit/examine with that for just a bit for several reasons. The first is that Howard basically said that he’s a sinner too. He wasn’t putting himself in one boat and gays in another boat. He said that we’re all in the same boat. (Effectively, he’s saying that we’re all the same.) Second, even though I’m not a Christian, I think it’s important to respect from where people are coming. Traditional Christianity taught in churches oftenteaches that homosexuality is sinful. Whether you agree or not, I think we can at least understand why Howard made the comment that he did. Third, you cannot reach people if you don’t acknowledge where they are. It’s difficult to see many of the posters being able to bridge the gulf between where Howard is and “acceptance” of gay people because there’s no appreciation of where he is or his faith. How can we build bridges with people if we’re so quick to condemn? It’s hard to imagine a productive conversation when the knee jerk is– you’ve hurt me so I’m going to hurt you back. So much of the political discourse is in absolute terms. It makes it hard for us to be human together. And lastly, I think that we might be able to win political victories if we don’t condemn people like Howard because I think that we can build bridges with them. For example, someone who believes that everyone sins may be supportive of legislation making anti-gay harrassment in schools illegal. If you come to them in an open (non-combative manner), perhaps you’ll get something less combative back and we can get to a point where we can all coexist a little bit better. Peace.