09/25/2007
CWA Not Happy with "Last Supper" Ad for SF Folsom Street Fair
Concerned Women for America has called on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Governor Schwarzenegger and Senators Feinstein and Boxer to publicly condemn an ad for the upcoming Folsom Street Fair (site NSFW) in San Francisco. The annual leather fetish streetfest has produced a poster advertising the event which is a depiction of The Last Supper attended by leather devotees and a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence. Sex toys take the place of bread and wine in the parody.
Calling the event "reminiscent of Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah," Matt Barber, Policy Director for Cultural Issues with CWA, says, "We further challenge the media to cover this affront to Christianity with the same vigor as recent stories about cartoon depictions of Mohammed and other items offensive to the Muslim community. What's equally shocking and offensive is the fact that California taxpayers are forced to help foot the bill for the Folsom Street Fair. The City of San Francisco sanctions the event, shuts down several city blocks and provides police for security."
If you recall, CWA was the group that went after Starbucks for placing an Armistead Maupin quote on one of their coffee cups which read, "My only regret about being gay is that I repressed it so long. I surrendered my youth to the people I feared when I could have been out there loving someone. Don't make that mistake yourself. Life's too damn short."
See a larger version of the poster here.
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Posted 12:10 PM EST by Andy in News, Nightlife, Religion, San Francisco | Permalink
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Don't the Concerned Women for America have anything better to focus on...like poverty in America or children who are homeless or Americans who don't have access to health care because they can't afford insurance or the thousands of innocent Iraquis who are being blown to bits by our bombs or the disturbing trend for 'Christians' to focus on hate (and irrelevant issues) as opposed to trying to make the world a better place for ALL?
Posted by: peterparker | Sep 25, 2007 12:20:47 PM
Yeah, the women are concerned because their husbands totally want to go to the Folsom St. Fair!
Posted by: jeff | Sep 25, 2007 12:24:23 PM
Wow, Matt Barber, Concerned Woman, really missed the point of the uproar over the cartoon depictions of Mohammed, didn't he. Wasn't the point, at least in the West, that cartoonists were exercising their freedom of expression and the protesters were religious extremists who were trying to stifle Western freedoms?
Posted by: sam | Sep 25, 2007 12:25:10 PM
I just went to the Concerned Women link and I think it's hilarious that they included not one but two links to full size pictures of the Folsom Street Fair ad. Just in case some of those Concerned Women want to study it closely, I guess.
Ever notice that the "Concerned Women" always seem to be men?
Posted by: sam | Sep 25, 2007 12:29:12 PM
Great ad this year.
Posted by: Davey | Sep 25, 2007 12:33:33 PM
Yet another slam at Christianity. Another shameful aspect of our community.
Posted by: DEAN | Sep 25, 2007 12:38:35 PM
"California taxpayers are forced to help foot the bill for the Folsom Street Fair"? That's ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much money the Folsom Street Fair raises for the city of San Francisco? Do you think the cops would otherwise turn a blind eye to the public sex and nudity, and to the various people dancing high on drugs on the street?
Posted by: Max | Sep 25, 2007 12:40:45 PM
Anything that slams right wing Christianity is a winner in my boat!! Hooray for Folsom Street Fair for exercising their right to free expression and free speech.
Christian extremist are the least Christ-like people around. I applaud this PARODY.
Posted by: Mark | Sep 25, 2007 12:45:44 PM
This ad is completely offensive and disgusting. Between Chris Crocker and stunts like this, is it any wonder why our community isn't taken seriously and doesn't get the respect we deserve? Gay Pride is seriously hard to have when something like this is out there.
Posted by: Tom | Sep 25, 2007 12:46:09 PM
Saw this poster a couple of weeks ago on my way to the gym. Laughed my ass off!
Posted by: JR | Sep 25, 2007 12:47:08 PM
"the public sex and nudity, and to the various people dancing high on drugs on the street"
Gee, how admirable. Hopefully, Chris Crocker won't do a remote and put on YouTube.
Posted by: Bacchus | Sep 25, 2007 12:50:14 PM
Oh, Tom ... you card.
That is a very hot poster. And big deal if this "offends" anyone. I'm SO over being politically correct all the time.
Posted by: Allen | Sep 25, 2007 12:51:34 PM
Dean,
The photograph is beautiful. Rather than being a slam at Christianity, I see it as a celebration of kink and sexuality. May I recommend about a decade of psychotherapy for you to deal with your internalized homophobia?
xxx,
peterparker
Posted by: peterparker | Sep 25, 2007 12:52:53 PM
Just to clarify (for all self-hating homosexuals): the Folsom Street Fair is not only about public nudity and drugs, just like homosexuality is not only about cock-sucking.
Posted by: Max | Sep 25, 2007 12:54:48 PM
Hi TOM! Please see my comments to DEAN.
xxx,
peterparker
Posted by: peterparker | Sep 25, 2007 12:55:00 PM
I fully support freedom of speech but worry that stirring the hornet's nest will only get you stung.
Posted by: Gary | Sep 25, 2007 12:55:01 PM
It's a parody of a PAINTING by Leonardo da Vinci. It's not actually Jesus in the painting. It's an imagining by an artist who is generally considered to have been a homosexual. Just thought the irony was rich and that I'd add it to the conversation.
Posted by: Jeff | Sep 25, 2007 12:58:43 PM
I'm not against free speech but people should think about how these ads effects and reflects the community as a whole. If you demand respect for who you are then you need to respect others. Not all Christians are anti-gay and these ads insult them as well.
Also this ad will only reinforce the stereotype that all gay people are a bunch of bathroom whores with AIDS. I understand that this ad is a angry reaction to Christian persecution but try and think about how it effects the gay community as a whole before you go to print
Posted by: Bud | Sep 25, 2007 1:00:11 PM
Idiots. Sure, let's give the Christian Reich some MORE ammunition to slam back in the gay community face when we are trying get anti-discrimination laws passed.
Yes, the ad is provocative, and yes, freedom of speech, blah, blah, blah, but it's just over top. I can see marginal gay accepting heterosexuals cringing.
Idiots.
Posted by: Rad | Sep 25, 2007 1:00:54 PM
And MAX, why is it that the ONLY pictures ever POSTED about the Folsom Street Orgy ARE the cocksucking and watersports pictures?
Posted by: Rad | Sep 25, 2007 1:03:26 PM
And once again, why is it that the Concerned WOMEN for America's spokesman is a man, baby (as Austin Powers), a man, baby.
Screw 'em, they're just on a roll after the Petraeus thing that figure they'll add this on.
CWA SpokesMAN Matt Barber is a cartoon of a conservative just by virtue of the organization he works for. Problem with the group is that there isn't one "concerned woman" who has enough sense of self-worth to take a position of power in her own organization.
You can't take someone like that seriously.
Posted by: Joe Bua | Sep 25, 2007 1:05:45 PM
Gosh, I don't know... I'm Christian and I'm not offended at all. I know it's not supposed to be a representation of Christ. It's a parody of a famous image... that's all.
There's no point in trying to modify anyone's expression in an effort to try to placate religious conservatives. They've already made their mind up and nothing short of a paradigm-shattering personal event will change that. All we can do is live our lives as we see fit, say whatever we want whenever we want, support each other, and defend what's left of our constitution.
Posted by: Brian | Sep 25, 2007 1:05:50 PM
WWJD?
He'd have a laugh. Jesus would love the ad. It humanizes him and the founders of the Christian church.
I like it too.
Posted by: Marc | Sep 25, 2007 1:06:21 PM
For several years now the Folsom Street Fair has no longer been a "gay" event. It's a celebration of leather, kink, S&M,etc. for the entire range of sexual orientations. There are as many straight people in attendance as there are gays.
Posted by: Keith | Sep 25, 2007 1:06:36 PM
You can express your hate mail to the Concerned Women for America at
Concerned Women for America
1015 Fifteenth St. N.W., Suite 1100
Washington, D.C. 20005
Phone: (202) 488-7000
Fax: (202) 488-0806
or visit their website
http://www.cwfa.org/main.asp
Posted by: Jon | Sep 25, 2007 1:10:33 PM
I fully support the ad as freedom of speech. I am very concerned about these ever increasing calls on the government to censor speech.
I am a Christian but I am not offended by the ad though I can certainly see where many Christians would be.
As much as I dislike the fundamentalist Christian right and loath their homophobia I can't imagine that unnecessarily provocative statements is actually helpful to us in the long run.
It seems that we are damned and determined to push away anyone who is sitting on the fence and moving in our direction on the issue of homosexuality. This just feeds into the rediculous claims that gays have launched an offensive rather than defensive attack on Christianity and Christians.
I think the ad is a work of art and a testament to free speech but outside of the fact that many people will get a belly laugh out of it and it may draw some people to the fair, what does it accomplish for the greater good, for gay rights/tolerance/acceptance?
I'm affraid that while we're focused on this little picture we are losing site of the big picture.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 25, 2007 1:11:47 PM
I'm sure Wimpy and the Repugnicans will have another Senate Resolution denouncing this ad as they did Move.org.
Posted by: dc-20008 | Sep 25, 2007 1:11:53 PM
This is the old drag queens at Pride Parades issue all over again, just amped up to tweak religious sensitivities.
Something that gets lost in debates like these is that it is one thing to HAVE a right; it is an altogether separate question WHETHER and HOW to exercise that right. The poster is an act of free self-expression, and I would defend it as such. I also think it is tasteless, frankly childish and sort of boorishly provocative. It's a classic example of the exercise of a right in a wrongheaded way.
And before all of you radically self-realized people label me self-loathing and maladjusted, I am out in every aspect of my life, proud of who and what I am and very happy with myself and my life. I also feel terrifically uncomfortable with the ammunition stuff like this gives to people--not only those predisposed to be bigoted but also those struggling to be open-minded but shocked by this kind of thing--to assume that all the worst they hear and think about gays is true. Because it shocks me too. If you want to dress up like the Virgin Mary and screw your boyfriend six ways from Sunday while he recites the Beatitudes, hell, knock yourself out. Just don't put it on a poster in public places and attach the rest of the community to it by implication.
Posted by: HermesDC | Sep 25, 2007 1:12:23 PM
I'm offended by the big wooden crosses (on wheels for convenience!) that the religious zealots roll up and down Bourbon street during their protests.
Maybe they should protest their own treatment of symbols of Christ.
Posted by: Malibu Boy | Sep 25, 2007 1:12:36 PM
Pelosi should just ignore them. Christian rhetoric is in your face a helluva lot more than things like this. It's about time someone took a smack at their mythology.
Posted by: Allen | Sep 25, 2007 1:12:46 PM
Excuse fucking me! What's all this bullshit about "internalized homophobia"? Those equating being gay with S&M etc. are just as wrong and just as stupid as the CWA and their ilk. If one hates gay child molestors does that mean one hates being gay? Does condemning gay serial killer Andrew Cunanan mean you have internalized homophobia? How about all the knocks against gay Republicans? That must mean gay Dems hate themselves for being gay.
Being gay has zip to do with any subcultures among gays, which change over time and concurrently vary from country to country, region to region. It doesn't equate with drag whether that means lace OR leather. Whether those are "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant. It doesn't equate with artistic preferences. You might find a disproportionate number of gay men at a performance of grand opera, but you'll also find some at the Grand Ole Opry. Etc. Etc. It isn't even about specific sex acts because not all gay men are into the sames ones. It's solely about sexual and emotional attraction to the same gender and anyone who thinks differently is the one who needs education if not therapy.
Posted by: Terry | Sep 25, 2007 1:13:04 PM
Fuck Christianity and fuck those Christian fascists.
Oh sorry, don't let us offend your stupid mythical beliefs!
Slamming Christianity is the BEST aspect of our community.
Posted by: JLS | Sep 25, 2007 1:13:17 PM
Obviously the goal of the ad is to create controversy. Be careful what you wish for.
Posted by: stevo | Sep 25, 2007 1:23:10 PM
I am with JLS (and others on this one). If your Jesus isn't big enough or strong enough to handle a little parody, then maybe it's time to start looking for a God with some cajones.
Posted by: marco | Sep 25, 2007 1:24:57 PM
Exactly, Marco. I think Jesus can handle it. How shallow is their faith that they're shocked and offended by this?
Posted by: sam | Sep 25, 2007 1:36:43 PM
The "Concerned Women for America" should bite a "big one" The Ad is Gr8T! ;o)
Posted by: DaK | Sep 25, 2007 2:02:07 PM
WWJD? Show up in leather of course!
Posted by: Juan | Sep 25, 2007 2:03:51 PM
The photographer and the participants have every right to pose for this. I just wish they had chosen something a little more original. That same pose has been done with a host of boobs from the neo-con cabal, with Oprah also the original one with what’s his name (Christ). Could Sister Roma go on a long, long, long vacation and take Chi Chi LaRue with her? Would anyone notice?
Posted by: ggreen | Sep 25, 2007 2:05:15 PM
"I totally support free speech, but people shouldn't be allowed to post something that might offend other people because it might hurt our 'cause'"
OK, idiots, time for you to get acquainted with a little phrase. Ready for it? OK, here we go.
FALSE CHOICE.
Used in a sentence: Being forced to decide between freedom to be and freedom of speech is a FALSE CHOICE.
If somebody says you shouldn't have the right to marry the one you love - fuck them. And if somebody says you don't have the right to print something that might offend a few uptight religions wingnuts, well, fuck them too.
Posted by: tservo | Sep 25, 2007 2:05:25 PM
SUCK IT JESUS! It's absolutely amazing how the religious whack-jobs love to use their faith to bash the hell out of gays, but how quick the persecutors become the persecuted. Pathetic. Those men from CWA need to grow some balls.
Posted by: Brian | Sep 25, 2007 2:13:58 PM
The original work has been parodied numerous times before without raising much of a fuss. Almost every administration has been portrayed by a cartoonist this way, along with the Sopranos and other casts. It's unclear where to draw the line on protests. CWA picked an easy target. Protesting the Soprano version would have made them seem somehow anti-American.
Now, if only guys in leather looked like that in real life! instead of being a sad bunch of slobs typically. Leather events are way overrated.
Posted by: anon (gmail.com) | Sep 25, 2007 2:15:34 PM
This is gonna be a rant. Buckle up.
Once again the gays put a giant foot in their mouths. I'm gay, I'm a lifelong practicing Episcopalian, and I personally am not particularly disturbed by this ad (mainly because I take into account the kind of freaks who probably put it together), BUT for a community trying to make cultural and political in-roads it might be wise to stop making a mockery of things that many people hold sacred. I recently moved to San Francisco because of grad school, and there is a strong culture of destruction in the gay community here, and sadly it's praised as smart and creative. The city won't let the USMC film a short sequence or a recruitment ad, but they'll block off huge chunks of SOMA so grown men can run around in costumes and piss on each other to feel "free and liberated". Grow up guys.
Posted by: Brad | Sep 25, 2007 2:22:27 PM
TSERVO, you didn't note who you were quoting and I can't seem to find that quote anywhere in this thread. I must be overlooking it. Could you please identify who made the statement that you quoted?
By the way, everyone should go check out the story Andy posted earlier about the UCC Church that is being denied insurance because of their belief that GLBT people should have full legal and spiritual rights including marriage equality.
When someone says "Fuck Christians!" or makes broad statements against all Christians I can't imagine how they can justify saying that to Christians such as the ones in the UCC (which, by the way, would include me) who, though mostly straight, have been on the front lines fighting for gay rights, EVEN more, I might add, than the average gay person.
It really seems as unfair as blaming every white person (or every Southerner) for racism, segregation and slavery or every German person for Nazi Germany and the Third Reich or every Muslim for 9/11.
It just goes to show that fundamentalist Christians haven't cornered the market of ignorance, bigotry and hate.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 25, 2007 2:25:19 PM
If this ad is so offensive, why does the CWA feel the need to give it so much publicity? Oh wait, because they don't give a shit about the ad---it's actually that they're the ones who want attention (and donations).
Posted by: Paul | Sep 25, 2007 2:28:08 PM
SUCK IT Concerned Women for America!!!
OMG does EVERYTHING have to be about JESUS??? JESUS CHRIST?
Its simply a bunch of people in various fetish gear, with various fetish toys at/on a table.
Posted by: Brandon | Sep 25, 2007 2:30:55 PM
Brad: "BUT for a community trying to make cultural and political in-roads it might be wise to stop making a mockery of things that many people hold sacred."
I hold the US constitution and freedom of speech sacred and you are making a mockery of it with your straw man argument.
From one 30 year resident of San Francisco; I’ve seen your hateful transient kind before (both gay and straight) don’t let the Golden Gate hit you on the ass on your way out. Good riddance.
Posted by: ggreen | Sep 25, 2007 2:31:10 PM
All I want to know is who is that hottie at the very end on the left?? HOT! Plus, I've been to Folsom. The outrage should be for the false advertising. The guys walking around naked, semi-nude or in leather are hardly ever hot.
Posted by: Mike | Sep 25, 2007 2:31:25 PM
I'm with Brad on this one.
Posted by: Cory | Sep 25, 2007 2:36:02 PM
Views from the the Sane Side:
Dean>> Try getting married to your partner is YOUR favorite Christian church.
Tom>> Self-loathing is internal dude.
PeterParker>> The "Hornets Nest" is completely between your ears.
Bud>> You drink tooo much of your nick.
Zeke>> The "big picture" is PRIDE!
Posted by: DaK | Sep 25, 2007 2:36:40 PM
It's certainly an attention getting ad/picture. Whether you like it or not - so what?
I read through these posts and so many of you have it completely wrong, but I guess I understand why. This country, since 9/11 and the ascendancy of the radical, christianized-right, has come under the grip of fear. We are fearful that our institutions won't work (e.g. Katrina), we're scared of terrorist hiding under every rock and wearing bad light colored suits, we're afraid that Jesus won't love us unless we re-mount the Crusades and kill a few (million) infidels.
People take a deep breath. No matter what, in the end we're all dead.
Posted by: Ben | Sep 25, 2007 2:38:42 PM
The ad is completely uninteresting, boring and just shot the stereotype of the gay "creative genius' in the ass. Maybe next year they can re-envision the "Dogs Playing Poker" classic with Pigs.
Posted by: my2Cents | Sep 25, 2007 2:42:13 PM
It doesn't bear but a very passing resemblance to Da Vinci's masterpiece. Compare the two images together and your rather hard pressed to see hardly any similarity. CWA needs to grow up. If all photos of a group of people behind a table is a mockery of the "Last Supper" then I have lot's of family thanksgiving dinner pictures that would make CWA shiver with outrage!
Posted by: Brad | Sep 25, 2007 2:45:15 PM
Is that the extent of your suggestions?
Thanks for the illuminta comment ;o)
Posted by: DaK | Sep 25, 2007 2:54:35 PM
ROFLMA @ MY2CENTS !!
Don't we all dude.... :o)
Posted by: DaK | Sep 25, 2007 2:57:01 PM
I love it. Rock on!
Posted by: the queen | Sep 25, 2007 3:02:55 PM
Looking forward to Folsom and the Real Bad Party on Sunday eve. The "concerned women" need to get themselves fucked and the sooner the better.
Posted by: ShawnSF | Sep 25, 2007 3:03:21 PM
Amen SHAWNSF!!!!
Posted by: DaK | Sep 25, 2007 3:08:03 PM
Sorry, Brad. I find it rich that someone who believes in a mystical God telling others they need to grow up.
And I am so tired of the "gays shouldn't stir the pot and offend straight/religious sensibilities" bullshit.
I am not asking for acceptance. I demand it as I am equal to any straight person on the motherfucking earth.
Posted by: Marco | Sep 25, 2007 3:16:29 PM
Dis-traaac-tion!
Posted by: davitydave | Sep 25, 2007 3:27:23 PM
I can't wait for Folsom. The openness and tolerance here is part of why I moved to San Francisco from NYC.
I think it is worth noting that Folsom is not really a gay event, it is an S&M/ fetish event that many straight people attend as well.
Personally I don't think it's valid to compare Chris Crocker to Folsom as a negative influence on our community. Folsom is about expanding sexual boundaries for gay and straight people. Crocker is an unintelligent and immature kid who only cares about himself. The rightwing will try to use both to demonize us, but personally I think I’d rather defend and champion a fair for sexual freedom then an egomaniacal teenager obsessed with Britney Spears.
I think the poster is fantastic.
Posted by: Adam | Sep 25, 2007 3:29:54 PM
I don't know what the organizers of Folsom expected. They took a religious image that many people hold dear and they parodied it. Of all the marketing ideas, and all the images, and all the riffs they could have done, they chose one that they KNEW would piss off a large set of people. Frankly, I don't have sympathy that they're now being criticized. Yes, they have a right to parody whatever they want, but I have the right to think the Folsom organizers are being tacky, confrontational, and have asked for any controversy that they're now getting. If we as gay people want the American mainstream to respect our choices and the things we hold dear, then we should show mainstream America the same respect that we demand for ourselves.
Posted by: PJ | Sep 25, 2007 3:30:47 PM
Great comment, MY2CENTS!
Posted by: Brandon | Sep 25, 2007 3:36:06 PM
Adam says:
"I don't know what the organizers of Folsom expected"
then..
"they chose one that they KNEW would piss off a large set of people"
Make up your mind. You either know their motivation or you don't. I'd bet the latter.
Posted by: Brandon | Sep 25, 2007 3:41:02 PM
Brandon:
I did not say that. That was PJ.
Posted by: Adam | Sep 25, 2007 3:53:12 PM
Brad - I agree with you to an extent, but I also think you--and everyone else--have missed the point of the exercise. They WANTED the controversy in order to get precisely the kind of coverage and buzz they're getting here.
Posted by: Rascal | Sep 25, 2007 3:59:36 PM
Hey "Davey"
Did you know that the current Judeo/Christian-based religions are based on an Ancient Egyptian Religion from 3000 year prior? Google "zeitgeist" or read up on how the Ancient Egyptians came to believe in "one God, born of a virgin birth..." Christianity is just a plagarized version of the same religion. Check it out - you'll be surprised! Also, if people want to be Christlike or Buddha-like - all the better.... but, CWA don't squelch my right to create are the way I want
Also, how can you support a religion that has killed some many people "in the name of Christ" (the Inquisitions, the Crusades, Killing indigenous People here in the Americas, staying quiet /neutral during WW2? How can you support a religion that condemns gays? That condoned slavery / servitude? That didn't allow inter-racial marriages. That stopped allowing priests to marry b/c the "Church" didn't want to lose its properties in divorce? How can you condone the wealth that the "Church" purports when there is so much worldwide poverty? The "Church" is the richest entity in the world (when you include the properties that it owns).
Folsom Street Fair Committee - GR8 Ad!!! Congrats!
Glenn
Posted by: GZP | Sep 25, 2007 4:00:12 PM
Folks, this is not simply a gay event. There are many, many straight folk there, so much so that the Folsom Street Fair is the third largest annual public event in California (behind the Rose Parade and SF Pride).
And as for those freaks (Brad's reference) that put it on, we all owe them thanks. They work tirelessly to put it together and make tons and tons of money for charity, a public good that Brad and his ilk can't begin to equal, I suspect.
So Brad, welcome to San Francisco, where we know a thing or two about freedom. It's what we do; we long ago quit being held hostage to Christian sensibilities. To us, once your called the essence of evil a couple of times, we begin to dismiss it. Thankfully for the Christians, you and your ilk seem to enjoy being called vile and repulsive, so they get to keep on doing it. It boggles the mind that Christians are allowed to say the most hateful things about our community and yet there are folks in these comments expressing concern that we might offend some Christians. Let me put it simply: Your existence offends them. Wrap you head around that and then try standing up with the ones who are fighting for your rights.
Posted by: Kyle Childress | Sep 25, 2007 4:02:37 PM
Something just came to me. Since these "concerned" people always seem to be so offended by everything gay people do, I wonder how many of them would actually approach the organizers of events like this and express their grievances and request that they kindly not do something so offensive to them. But, it seems they rather prefer the alternate route of perpetuating controversy by rushing to the media and barking. One would expect that Christians could overcome their issue of pride and approach people in this way. Heck, maybe they'd actually cause someone to reconsider if they demonstrated that they were genuinely upset and not just reactionary.
Posted by: Brandon | Sep 25, 2007 4:03:35 PM
GGREEN:"I hold the US constitution and freedom of speech sacred and you are making a mockery of it with your straw man argument.
From one 30 year resident of San Francisco; I’ve seen your hateful transient kind before (both gay and straight) don’t let the Golden Gate hit you on the ass on your way out. Good riddance."
Mr. Green,
I'd love to see your response if the Southern Baptist Convention bought a billboard on Market St. declaring "AIDS- God's Punishment for Promiscuity". You, like me, would probably be offended. I think the people at Folsom can do whatever they want, but its petty and juvenile to juxtapose Christian imagery with sexual perversion for the sake of being "edgy" and inciting controversy. It's been done to death.
Secondly, to call me hateful for not understanding this need some in our community have to mock religion(especially Christianity)shows how strong you feel about freedom of speech. People like you always throw around key words like hate, bigot, racist, homophobe, whenever someone's view doesn't fall in-line with theirs. I'm sure the city's film commission has an equally deep affection for freedom of speech (too bad they don't extend that freedom to the people actually defending it).
As for the Golden Gate hitting me on the way out, nice way to make this a personal attack against me. For your information I'm a fifth generation Californian. I didn't "move here" 30 years ago; I've got the Golden State in my genes. The only ass that needs hitting is yours you tired old queen, but sadly its probably not even pretty enough to hit anymore....but I'm sure you'll be wearing chaps this weekend.
Kisses.
Posted by: Brad | Sep 25, 2007 4:08:00 PM
I guess it's easy to blame the Christian Rights' disgust at the gay population because a bunch of leather guys on a poster exhibit "provocative displays."
I'm actively involved in the leather culture, and it does seem many of the "mainstream gay" population would love to throw us under a bus just as easily as they'd throw all those drag queens under it. That's incredibly selfish and self-serving, but I wouldn't expect anything less from a bunch of queens more concerned with being accepted by these religious nutcases.
After all, it's far easier to gain financial and career success by trying to make everyone think "Gee, they ARE just like me!" Personally, I just find it to be chickenshit behavior.
Posted by: adam | Sep 25, 2007 4:54:01 PM
Brad, Since you’ve made it clear that your opinions are the only ones that matter, I wouldn’t attempt to change your linear thinking. Love and kisses a tired old queen
Posted by: ggreen | Sep 25, 2007 5:01:42 PM
Kyle Childress:"So Brad, welcome to San Francisco, where we know a thing or two about freedom. It's what we do; we long ago quit being held hostage to Christian sensibilities. To us, once your called the essence of evil a couple of times, we begin to dismiss it. Thankfully for the Christians, you and your ilk seem to enjoy being called vile and repulsive, so they get to keep on doing it. It boggles the mind that Christians are allowed to say the most hateful things about our community and yet there are folks in these comments expressing concern that we might offend some Christians. Let me put it simply: Your existence offends them. Wrap you head around that and then try standing up with the ones who are fighting for your rights."
Kyle, your generalization of Christians show how small minded you are. "Let me put it simply: Your existence offends them." Well Kyle, last time I checked the Episcopal Church in the US and Canada was about to break away from the global Anglican Communion because they wanted to include gays in religious life at every level. I've also seen quite a few ads for the United Methodist Church that depict gay parishioners and welcome EVERYONE. The church I attend in SF is full of gays, including gay and lesbian clergy. To paint all Christians with this broad brush of hate (a word your "ilk" love to throw around is equally as grotesque as right-wing nutjobs claiming that all gays are perverted child molesters.
I'd love to know why you can't disagree with your "ilk" without being branded evil, hateful, bigotted, etc. Funny how much these sound like "sins", but thats a word another group throws around. As for freedom of speech, there's a lot more to freedom of speech than prancing around in a pair of leather shorts and a dog collar. Somehow freedom got wrapped up in a parade of freaks and perversions, and now we're having a hell of time trying to get more because that's how we're constantly portrayed. Thank your "ilk" for me.
Kisses.
Posted by: Brad | Sep 25, 2007 5:04:37 PM
Fuck the CWA. It's a great photograph and a great poster...
Posted by: Robert In WeHo | Sep 25, 2007 5:34:06 PM
Brad, you're correct in saying that not all Christians are homophobic. Kyle, you're correct in saying that the Christians who are part of the CWA, the people who are most likely to be offended by this post, are reprehensible bigots.
I rather think that the CWA is not overwhelmed with Episcopalians. It's likely more populated by brands of Christians who are exactly what Kyle described. The more reasonable and Christ-like among Christians would see this as what it is... an irreverent parody of a famous image.
If only we could keep our eyes on the prize and quit being distracted by all the minutiae. "Ladies, please. You're both pretty."
Posted by: Brian | Sep 25, 2007 5:37:39 PM
"leather culture" my flabby ass. You'd be happier if you all sought group therapy instead. Everytime I see one of you dried up and decaying before your time freaks walking down Castro I want to take a shower with Purell. And can only laugh at the endless pictures in the B.A.R. from yet another leather contest of some male or female troll wearing a leather "sash." Well, hey, Your Butchness - ever stop to think that that's merely something imitating vapid female beauty pageants like Miss America?
And for all the mud being thrown about alleged self-loathing, who's displaying more self-loathing than someone so afraid of having their homosexuality being associated with anything less than "manly" that he has to stomp around in 3D equivalents of Tom of Finland cartoons? YOU are a CARTOON Brad and so are all of your "brothers in leather."
Slave paraphenalia, role playing, auctions = Freedom? Sure they do.
And how much of your imagery and fiction is built around literal Nazi fantasies? All the various leather bars from SF to Grand Rapids to DC called The Eagle or the Eagles Nest take their name from the knickname for the retreat built for Hitler in the Bavarian Alps.
Posted by: Himmel | Sep 25, 2007 5:38:36 PM
Help a brother out--what does ROFLMA mean... i'm new in these parts.
Posted by: my2Cents | Sep 25, 2007 5:46:17 PM
Relax all of you.
It is great art ... fun for fun sake.
As for the Christinist Taliban ... the point of the gay movement is to tell them to fuck off... if there are gay Christianists ... well fuck you too.
Have a nice day ... and bend over.
Posted by: RJP3 | Sep 25, 2007 5:58:53 PM
Himmel,
You must have me confused with someone else on this site. While not as passionate as you, I have been espousing a somewhat similar argument as you, that the whole leather party = freedom ("As for freedom of speech, there's a lot more to freedom of speech than prancing around in a pair of leather shorts and a dog collar. Somehow freedom got wrapped up in a parade of freaks and perversions, ...")issue is ass-backward and I've been taking a few punches for it.
Please re-read my comments.
Thanks
Posted by: Brad | Sep 25, 2007 6:02:58 PM
TAKE A LOOK ... it is iconic
and iconic images - like the face of that crazy ass fake prophet Mohammed (my opinion)are open to parody in free Western Cultures. Fuck the religious censors - remember this group HATES gay people with the passion of the Christ.
They just want to be in control of others. Same old story.
OTHER LAST SUPPER PARODIES:
http://wtbw.net/wtbw/last-s/14.jpg
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/red/blue_pics/2005/02/04/lastsupper3426236werwerere3.jpg
http://cinetext.philo.at/magazine/schmidl/images/supper.jpeg
http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/nucleus/media/21/20060302-lastsupper1.jpg
http://www.cielearn.org/journal_2005/art/Last-Supper-detail3.jpg
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 6:07:19 PM
Sorry, Brad, I couldn't see the forest for the freaks. I meant Adam.
Posted by: Himmel | Sep 25, 2007 6:16:54 PM
Brad, your Episcopalians are, as we speak/type, in New Orleans discussing just how much bigotry against gays they can tolerate so as to keep their church from a schism. While I appreciate their efforts, the clear answer in my book is zero, schism or not. But clearly, they're willing to put up with some to keep their precious church together; keep your fingers crossed that it's not too much. Nonetheless, I don't see them as a shining example of Christ's tender mercies at this point.
Of course, I understand that not all Christians are hateful bigots, but the CWA and other evangelicals, on the one hand, and Catholic heirarchy, on the other are, and they are faces of Christianity in this country, and I'll bet neither you nor I are happy about that sad fact.
Posted by: Kyle Childress | Sep 25, 2007 6:22:42 PM
It seems like there are 2 Adams here, I'm the first 2 posts but not the last one. I'm not into leather culture but I have to say I agree with the second Adam for the most part.
This is San Francisco. People come here for this and other subcultures. It's part of what makes this city so great. Not all of it appeals to me personally but thats really not the point. If you want to live in middle America and have middle America values then move to middle America. This place is full of people who are trying something else and they have every right to do that.
Posted by: AdamN | Sep 25, 2007 6:35:51 PM
Thanks for those photo links. That just helps to further my suspicion that this is nothing more than knee-jerk reaction coupled with an irrational obsession with gay people rather than genuine offense. These "offensive" parodies probably exist in a multitude of places (here's another http://www.boingboing.net/images/Supper_at_Sea_by_ATLbladerunner.jpg, but the "concerned" individuals don't have much to say about that in such a public way. And the reason why, because those portrayed in / responsible for the other images aren't part of a pre-selected scapegoat group.
Posted by: Brandon | Sep 25, 2007 6:39:46 PM
Sorry about that mistake earlier, Adam. And yes there does seem to be two Adams AND two Brandons. I'm the one with the email address "noname@yahoo.com"
Posted by: Brandon | Sep 25, 2007 6:42:20 PM
my2Cents-
ROTFLMAO means "Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off."
Here's a link to the chat anachronism dictionary...
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
Posted by: Robert In WeHo | Sep 25, 2007 7:19:57 PM
Yes PJ you have the right to think the Folsom organizers are tacky, confrontational, and have asked for any controversy that they're now getting.
But then you do not get freedom and the very confrontational gay movement for freedom - artistic and sexual.
Not just gay acceptance.
As gay people why would we want to limit our rights to freedom of expression - just so the American mainstream respects us - dear they hate anyone who could be this out of their CONTROL straight or gay.
One last point ... most of the travelers who attend Folsom WANT to make it clear they DO NOT respect the values of mainstream America. If you do not "get" that you miss the ENTIRE point of the Folsom Street Fair.
I do not think Folsom is or should be concerned at all. I assume they are happy for the free press.
AND LETS TALK SEX
The apostle on the left is HOT!
Look at that furry blond chest.
"JESUS" is black.... nice touch.
The dog mask ... hmmm, I just dont get all the props in the leather community. When I want a dog ... I just him to get down on all four's and bark.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 7:23:57 PM
Actually Brad, the Methodist Church has really sweet and cuddly commercials but it seems that most of their actual churches don't come close to living up to the messages in the ads.
And so much for the Episcopals risking being separated from the Anglican Communion over their courageous stand for gay people. This just in: They, just today, threw us under the bus AGAIN to try to appease African Bishops that still won't be satisfied with their action.
The Episcopal Church has shown a real lack of courage and a real lack of regard for GLBT people as children of God. To add insult to injury they will still get thrown out of the communion leaving them a church without a communion, a church without a heart, and a church with no balls.
That's why I'm no longer an Episcopal.
If you want to name examples of Christian Churches that are FULLY gay inclusive and supportive, you're pretty much left with the United Church of Christ. It is the ONLY mainline Christian denomination to support FULL legal and spiritual equality for GLBT people, including FULL legal and spiritual marriage equality.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 25, 2007 7:28:31 PM
@ ROBERT IN WEHO -- You may be a chat anachronism, but ROTFL is an acronym.
Posted by: Becks07 | Sep 25, 2007 7:36:07 PM
@ROBERT IN WEHO: thanks for the link.
@RJP3: "JESUS" is black.... nice touch. Is this news? I thought we already knew that.
Posted by: my2Cents | Sep 25, 2007 7:52:05 PM
Gentlemen: please do not ROFLMAO:
anyone know where to buy synthetic horns? i saw a great pic of a guy in leather with a small pair... would love to find a pair. i'm NYC based.
Posted by: my2Cents | Sep 25, 2007 8:07:07 PM
good one, BECKS07.
MY2CENTS, jesus was not black. where the fuck do you get that?
Posted by: nic | Sep 25, 2007 8:16:29 PM
Amen (sorry the pun) to Brad and My2Cents and others with some perspective.
I actually worry for the future of gay culture when dross like this attracts such admiration. Like I said before, I'd defend to the last breath the right of free speech. But it is discouraging when it's exercised in such utterly derivative and unimaginative ways.
And does the person who suggested Leonardo would be flattered by the imitation actually believe that? Flattery is when someone with talent takes inspiration from one work of art to create another. This ain't art kids.
I sort of suspect we've not heard the last of this one. The CWA and its allies are persistent. And I bet that Miller Lite won't be sponsoring FSF again in the future. They're the only sponsor with a mainstream image to protect, and it could get a little hot for them.
I feel like this is really not what the gay civil rights movement is about anyway. The freedom to be ourselves and live our lives without fear or discrimination doesn't, to my mind at least, include the freedom to flaunt fetishes in public and brazenly flout laws against public decency, public intoxication and narcotics possession and use.
And please spare us the ridiculous blanket dismissals and condemnation of Christianity and all its believers. Are there some Christian bigots? Yes. A lot. They're not real Christians. Have horrific abuses been committed in the name of religion? Yes. And if there's any justice in the cosmic sense, then those who perpetrated them in the name of God and Christ are burning in hell. (Now THERE'S a reason to hope there IS a God.)
But there are also men and women of faith all over the world tonight serving the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and trying to live more decent lives because of the demands of their faith. Do none of you share my sense of embarrassment at silly comments like this one:
"Fuck Christianity and fuck those Christian fascists. Oh sorry, don't let us offend your stupid mythical beliefs! Slamming Christianity is the BEST aspect of our community." (JLS, above)
Wow, if that's true, then count me out (pun intended). I remember when gay activism used to be about fairness and equality and physical safety and the government's neglect of a killing plague . . . now it's about the right to be offensive? I guess we HAVE come a long way.
Posted by: HermesDC | Sep 25, 2007 8:19:23 PM
If HERMSDC's father had liked the Red Sox, he would have rooted for the yankees.
Lots of mental masterbation in that post.
If THAT not at all offensive poster is tooooo much for your world, then I am happy to spend my limited days on earth supporting such things. God save us all from people like you.
By the way ... question for you HERMSDC ?
Which one of the guys in the poster do you think is the hottest ?
LOVE that there are 93 comments ... lots of smart fags and lots of conservative gays we need to be aware of. THE GOOD FIGHT CONTINUES.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 8:38:27 PM
"The freedom to be ourselves and live our lives without fear or discrimination doesn't, to my mind at least, include the freedom to flaunt fetishes in public."
What a tool. I love how he uses the word FLAUNT ... like when two gay men kiss or hold hands ... to some that is a unnatural FETISH that they dont want FLAUNTED on TV or in public, or in sex ed.
Some people just do not get it.
It is ALL about experimentation, enjoyment and PUSHING BOUNDRIES.
I think that poster is from the CWA actually... or he should join them and fight gay culture with his own kind.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 8:42:11 PM
@RJP3: "JESUS" is black.... nice touch. Is this news? I thought we already knew that.
Well you and I and other enlightened folks know that ... but I bet you there are people who would still see a black man sitting in the spot held by Jesus as offensive. The truth as offensive, even in 2007. Like I said a nice touch.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 8:44:50 PM
If this is a Last Supper parody, it's a crappy one--even after being told what it's supposed to look like, I don't see it.
Posted by: Scott | Sep 25, 2007 8:56:41 PM
i am not a xtian. the ad does not bother me at all. it is a somewhat amusing take on the iconic painting. while i know that the renaissance artists westernized jesus (what with the blue eyes and long, wavy, brown hair) i know, too, that jesus (the purported christ) was not black. where is the evidence to support that he was? according to legend, jesus was born in nazareth and he spoke aramaic. given that, he would have been semitic. there is not only a paucity of evidence, but a complete lack thereof, that he was black. so, those of you who are more enlightened than i, please support your position. just as i disdain the intellectual dishonesty of the great artists, so do i disdain the lazy assumptions portrayed as fact by history dilettantes.
Posted by: nic | Sep 25, 2007 9:26:05 PM
Oh the IRONY that this should happen today.
Episcopal leaders promise restraint on electing gay bishops in face of Anglican demands
By Rachel Zoll, AP Religion Writer | September 25, 2007
NEW ORLEANS --Episcopal leaders, pressured to roll back their support for gays to keep the world Anglican family from crumbling, affirmed Tuesday that they will "exercise restraint" in approving another gay bishop and will not approve prayers to bless same-sex couples.
He Mr. Anglican Church "the gays are dirty and bad and dont respect my religious symbols", spend your energy working to root out the bigots in your church who are joining forces with ignorant Africans.
And dont blame Folsom for their hatred and ignorance ... they would just hate the conservative gays more if the radical gays did not push the limits.
Posted by: RJP3 | Sep 25, 2007 9:38:25 PM
Peter Parker, et al who mock my religion,
The painting of The Last Supper is a representation of an ACTUAL event. Not something created from imagnination. Standing up for my faith is something I am proud to do. I am gay and I AM CHRISTIAN. I live my life as best as I can respecting others. This ad is disrespectful to me and I am not ashamed to stand up for what I believe. I am respectful of all religions and I only wish there were more people on here who were more respectful of my religion whether you CHOSE to believe in it or not. Damn shame. No wonder some straight people refuse to understand and have compassion for us. Reading some of the comments under this topic make me question my loyalty to my community--but not to my religion. But my Faith and I are stronger than these silly comments. As for "internalized homophobia", that is such a weak argument when you have nothing more intelligent to say, Petie.
Posted by: Dean | Sep 25, 2007 9:41:01 PM
http://www.virango.com/files/u82/last_supper2.jpg
THE LAST HAPPY MEAL
"this is my body"
"this is my blood"
"this is the free toy inside"
HUMOR ... that poster besides being full of interesting REAL people - some very attractive, is also full of HUMOR.
The first thing I said when I saw that was - that's hysterical. It is a poster for an event ... not high art. It is supposed to be temporary and kind of fun.
It does get the message across that if your someone who is offended by a lack of respect for your religious IDOL - dont come.
I bet thousands of men and woman who are sexual and kinky and Christian will be there and see the much needed humor in the poster.
You CAN be all of those things.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 9:46:08 PM
Speaking of kinky and BLACK JESUS ... in this picture kind of looks like R Kelly.
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/AGF/9558~Black-Jesus-and-Scenes-of-Life-Posters.jpg
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 9:48:41 PM
Jesus sure was not WHITE
LOVE THE WIKI ... says it better than I could.
The fact that the Middle East was a meeting point of cultures and races has led to suggestions that Jesus may have been African or Arabian. The ancient Near East was a cultural crossroad, and the only land route out of Africa, where that continent physically joins the Eurasian landmass. The Roman province of Judea (known in the Bronze Age as Canaan, to the Romans as Iudaea, and today as Israel/Palestine), where Jesus lived, had many different waves of immigrants pass through at various points in and before recorded history, with the last major group being the Arab conquest in the 7th century. As such, it is not inconceivable that Jesus could have had traces of Arab, Berber, Roman, Greek, Black African, Persian or Indian ancestry. The aggressive policy of territorial expansion and forced conversion to Judaism practiced by John Hyrcanus a century before Jesus' birth may also have affected the ethnic make-up of the local Jewish populations.
It is most commonly argued that Jesus was probably of Middle Eastern descent because of the geographic location of the events described in the Gospels, and, among some modern Christian scholars, the genealogy ascribed to him. For this reason, he has been portrayed as a bronze-skinned individual
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 25, 2007 9:52:18 PM
Sorry RJP3, truly "enlightened folks" who "get it" are able to challenge other people's opinions without rudeness, ad hominem attacks, unfounded accusations and straw man rhetoric.
Dan Savage, as he often does, made a very interesting and thought provoking point which makes a lot of sense to me.
He said, "When powerless people are attacked by powerful people—when conservative Christians go after gay people and kinky straight people—the powerless will respond the way the powerless always have: with insults, with mockery, and with humor."
That statement caused me to see this ad in a different light and gave me a new appreciation.
I'm still concerned that, in the real world, it's going to cause the gay community more harm than good. I'm not saying that it should or that it's reasonable that it will. I'm just saying that I think it will.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 25, 2007 9:53:27 PM
Uh, RJP3, funny you should mention it, but my Dad was a lifelong Red Sox fan. Unfortunately for you though, I am too. And one of the happiest events of my life was when my partner of 11 years, our two children and I took him to a World Series game at Fenway two years ago just six months before he died. Squish, squish, mommy's crying too, huh? But see what happens when you get personal without knowing what the hell you're talking about?
It's so predictable that you should make an ad hominem attack on me just because we disagree with each other; it must just be too hard for you to engage on the merits. Why is it that the seemingly most liberal people are so quick to condemn other people for what they THINK. Especially when my thoughts are that I wouldn't dream of denying the FSF organizers their exercise of their right of free speech, even as I exercise mine by expressing regret and disapproval of the substance they express thereby.
Let me ask YOU a question. Recalling the difference between having a right and exercising it responsibly, are people who hang nooses from trees outside Louisiana high schools just experimenting and pushing boundaries? I'm sure they're enjoying themselves. Or the hateful bigots who picketed Matthew Shephard's funeral because he "got what he deserved"? More pushing of boundaries, and probably a hell of a lot of fun for them too.
Rights need to be exercised with respect for others and a sense of decency. You can do privately and with another consenting adult or adults whatever turns you on, and you can kiss and hold hands and giggle and moon over your boyfriend(s), friend(s) with benefits, fuck buddy/ies all and anywhere you want as far as I'm concerned. Hell, try the steps of St. Patrick's Cathedral during the Easter Parade, and wear your most fabulous hat too. Depending on your appearance it might even be really hot to see.
But do society a favor and stop there. Because I'm not aware of an analog in the straight community to this boundary pushing in our community, and I don't know many gays who think it's an imporant boundary to push.
Ever wonder where the slippery slope argument against gay marriage comes from? A lot of places, of course, but they include the fear that it's not just about equality for gays but the first step toward a radical redefinition of public sexual ethics. A lot of people could see their way to supporting the first but not the second. And things like this FSF poster play right into that.
Now that may be your agenda, but for those of us who live in the real world, it's about partner visitation and inheritance rights, it's about not having to move to another state so our children will be protected from seizure by family services if something happens to their one legal adoptive parent, it's about a lot of things that have a hell of a lot more importance than your boundary pushing in San Francisco. That's not my fight, and it's not the fight of many other gay people I know.
And before you go making any more ludicrous and random projections about who and what I am, I'm FAR from a conservative politically. Been a member of the ACLU my whole adult life, got "don't asked, don't tell'ed" out of a career in the military that I was proud of, and have spent the last 15 years of my life fighting in the courts for equal rights for gay Americans.
So don't presume to judge me, asshole. Oh sorry, that was probably an inappropriate exercise of my free speech rights.
Posted by: HermesDC | Sep 25, 2007 10:01:18 PM
Condemning this ad because it is derivative and unimaginative is judging it in the aesthetic realm, which, to my mind, has nothing to do with the future of the gay rights movement. Along this line of thought, if the ad had been ORIGINAL along with offensive, everything would be honky dory?
I am with the people who are not afraid to offend the religious/myth believers.
Posted by: jmg | Sep 25, 2007 10:14:03 PM
DEAN, you're alright by me brother.
PETERPARKER's a great guy too. I think it's unfortunate that he equates your defending your faith with internalized homophobia. I think with more thought he might reconsider such a statement. I happen to know that he has a resonable amount of respect for some Christians who regularly defend their faith.
Sometimes I think unfortunate and unintended things get said off the cuff and in the heat of the moment in these comments. It's really sad to me when I see good people in our community tear each other apart over differences of opinion rather than ALL of us collectively, effectively and productively focusing our combined indignation on our REAL enemies.
What I'm seeing in these comments are a lot of stereotypes being made (all the way around) by people who should know better than to stereotype.
I really hate to be stereotyped! It doesn't matter if I'm being stereotyped as a man, as a gay man, as a Southerner, as a Mississippian, as a Christian or as an American; I HATE being stereotyped! And no stereotype is more infuriating that the one that comes from a person who should know better.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 25, 2007 10:15:36 PM
Sorry -- I've been fucking the daylights out of the guy on the far left. Did I miss anything?
Posted by: Becks07 | Sep 25, 2007 10:20:46 PM
HERMESDC, I'm a huge Red Sox fan too. Me and the family went to all three games of their triple header against the TB D-Rays over the weekend.
Oh, and as of tonight, I'm a big fan of yours as well! :)
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 25, 2007 10:27:14 PM
Where you stand depends on where you sit--and what you sit on.
Posted by: anon (gmail.com) | Sep 25, 2007 10:39:51 PM
Poor fucking babies! "Oh, I'm so offended." Big deal. Get a grip! I'm offended by Christian shit on a daily, if not hourly basis, but so what? Spew away, Christofascists and see how much I really care. Who said anyone gets to live in a society free from anything that could possibly offend you? If you'd like to close your eyes and become a shut in, be my guest. But I'd rather live in a "freedom to" society than a "freedom from" society. To both the hand wringers and the men of the Concerned Women, suck it!
Posted by: So Left I'm Right | Sep 25, 2007 11:02:21 PM
HERMESDC - right on. your argument was cogent, grounded and stitched together like that baseball at the Red Sox game.
Against others' constant need to point out who's hottest or to tell those who disagree to "fuck off" - you took the higher ground and the road rises to meet you. Thanks for the perspective.
Posted by: resurrect | Sep 25, 2007 11:34:26 PM
RJP3,
to say that jesus was not white is a far cry from asserting that he was black. look up semitic.
Posted by: nic | Sep 25, 2007 11:39:30 PM
The real kicker is that there is no god...so all this is kind of ... moot?
Posted by: David | Sep 25, 2007 11:49:32 PM
HermesDC: "The freedom to be ourselves and live our lives without fear or discrimination doesn't, to my mind at least, include the freedom to flaunt fetishes in public and brazenly flout laws against public decency . . ."
Dude, at that point you lost ANYONE with a memory. I couldn't figure out whether you sounded like J.Edgar or Anita Bryant. Sheesh.
Posted by: Freddie | Sep 26, 2007 12:16:48 AM
Christianity is offensive to any clear-thinking, rational and moral person. So, suck it, CWA!
Posted by: ReasonBased | Sep 26, 2007 12:46:08 AM
Hey everybody! Look! It's Wentworth Miller!!!
Posted by: Becks07 | Sep 26, 2007 2:55:35 AM
This homo-promo is a question of WHAT CAN BE DONE versus WHAT SHOULD BE DONE. I am 100% supportive of free speech, BUT there are instances such as this where those promoting the depiction of the Last Supper in this manner cross the line. It's not different from yelling 'fire' in a theater: Yeah, you can do it, but you don't. Because you KNOW better.
This promotion is religious defamation and is a prime example of why the straight world won't fully accept gays.
Posted by: Cramps | Sep 26, 2007 6:37:50 AM
upon first glance it's a lame concept (i prefer the MY2CENTS' dogs playing poker idea) but it's a well done graphic.
the notion not touched upon in this comments thread, is that there's a huge amount of hardcore S+M leather gayguys that are also hardcore christians, priests even... so the poster actually represents that facet of the gay community very well.
Posted by: A.J | Sep 26, 2007 8:21:51 AM
Cramps, THANK YOU for your comments and for reinforcing my earlier comments about how we, as a community, will continue to be outcasts to a large segment of the population as long as we allow filthy depictions as this to continue. And as for those who can think of nothing more intelligent to say than "suck it"...I expected so much more, but why am I not surprised. Oh, well.
Posted by: DEAN | Sep 26, 2007 9:44:15 AM
"The Last Supper" was a painting--done by a FAGGOT--not a religious icon or miracle. It'd be something different if the advert had Sister Flatulina crucified on a giant dildo.
Posted by: dizzypsins | Sep 26, 2007 9:45:43 AM
Dizzyspins...as I explained earlier on in this discussion, The Last Supper is an illustration of a VERY significant actual event Christians hold dear. I wonder what would happen if the creator of the ad had made an ad mocking Muhammed?
Posted by: DEAN | Sep 26, 2007 10:16:09 AM
1) The ad is lame, unoriginal and uninteresting in my book
2) They really don't undrestand the issue about the Mohammad cartoons: Muslims believe you should show an image of Mohammad, let alone a cartoon of him. Obviously Christians don't feel the same about Jesus. Also that controversy involved artistic rights and free-speech something the CWA apparently doesn't care for.
3) Who's to say you can't be both into the Folsom Street Fair and be a Christian. As a gay Christian I am endlessly annoyed by people on both sides of the "debate" because both sides tend to make arguements as if nobody is both gay and Christian...or in this case Christian and into leather
Posted by: jacknasty | Sep 26, 2007 1:38:22 PM
JackNasty,
Yes, I understand that Islam prohibits the illustration of Muhammed. And, yes, Christianity does allow images of Jesus. I was merely stating the possibility about what would have happened if someone had decided to create an ad mocking Muhammed for the FSF in the same tone that this ad mocks a moment in time from the history of Christianity. I'd doubt it would ever happen since the same people who mock Christianity or Catholicism would probably never consider mocking a religion such as Islam.
Posted by: DEAN | Sep 26, 2007 4:02:05 PM
dean,
your question is neither here nor there. why would the FSF even consider using an islamic symbol. there is not one iconic enough to americans (especially gay americans) to matter. if they had, then some islamic zealot might have strapped on a bomb and headed to the parade. and so? what does that prove or disprove.
the problem, as i see it, is in the exaggereated importance with which we charge our symbols. if one is truly committed to one's belief system, why does it matter what other people do with the presumed representations of our belief system.
the idiots at the cwa, latched on to a poster that would have gotten minimal exposure and made it national. their ulterior motive, though, was to further their own bigoted agenda by exposing the "gays" as godless hedonists.
i am an agnostic, so i don't have a dog in this fight. my problem, if i have one, is that this collection of christian charlatans has us here in an internecine squabble when WE have more in common with each other than the most christian of us will ever have with THEM.
Posted by: nic | Sep 26, 2007 4:38:17 PM
I swear these so-called self-proclaimed moralists and religious should just pull out the dildos they got stuck up their asses. Maybe then they'll be able to dispense of the crap that's been mangling their reasoning and help focus on the big issues plaguing the world than the repressive constipated need they have to pass judgment on others and impose their own standards against those who wish to practice their freedom of expression. "Let he among us without sin be the first to condemn..."
Posted by: Donn | Sep 26, 2007 5:00:25 PM
Dear Dean, why do you not answer your own question ... ?
"The Last Supper is an illustration of a VERY significant actual event Christians hold dear. I wonder what would happen if the creator of the ad had made an ad mocking Muhammed?"
There would have been a fascist Islamic outcry. We are at war against those people.
Yet here in America we are at war with fascist Christians who feel others have to respect their religious symbols or events.
That is not the case ... especially when the religions that feel the earth are capable of being warped to do so much damage.
PISS CHRIST ... look it up.
Great Art because someone DARED to be free.
Christianists and Islamists are very much the same. The Christianist (usually) just use weapons other than bombs and guns.
Bottom Line - the CWA used this poster to spread hatred toward gays. If it was REALLY offensive - they would not post it on their website and promote it for MANY more people to see than ever would have.
Wake up. We are not going to kneel and respect any religious symbols except those we individually choose to. When the last Christian stops working to spread hatred to gay men and women... come back with your concerns.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 26, 2007 6:20:25 PM
please take some time to go back and read the posts by HERMESDC
Equality is everywhere ... he proves that there are enemies of freedom that are gay.
Being gay does not make one "good"
... just read his posts.
He actually wrote there is nothing in straight society as offensive as this poster.
HMM how about GAY CONVERSION THEREPY, 1000's of churches teaching children every day that being gay is a SIN, gay bashing Rap Lyrics ... well one could go on and on.
Remember Gays and Straights for Freedom .. some of our enemies are gay men and women.
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 26, 2007 6:26:27 PM
Uh, no, RJP3, I didn't say that there is nothing in straight society as offensive as this poster. I said I am unaware of an organization representing straights that wants to push this particular boundary, to wit, the public display of sexual fetishes, and to do so by, among other things, sexualizing a religious image. THAT'S what I said.
And I'm not clear what makes me an enemy of freedom. I've never said FSF organizers can't have their poster. It doesn't violate any public decency LAWS. But I regret it because I think it is needlessly insensitive to the beliefs of others. That doesn't make me an enemy of freedom.
In the real world, freedom does not consist in the unfettered right to do whatever you want. That's the state of nature in which no one is dependably safe to pursue their own interests. Living together in society requires that we surrender certain unrestrained freedoms, e.g., accepting the restraint on our free speech rights that we not yell "fire" in a crowded theater, in the interest of the collective welfare.
But I believe that there are responsibilities on us as civilized human beings to not only abide by the letter of the law in that way but also to respect the people around us by avoiding needless offense.
Is it inconceivable to you that there are people who are perfectly happy for others to indulge whatever sexual desires including fetishes they choose privately but would prefer not to have sacred images profaned in the process of rubbing their faces in it? Take my granny, for instance, loves me and my partner, gives us anniversary gifts, knitted booties for our kids; but boy oh boy does she love her some Jesus. And she's not going to be impressed with Jesus's chalice being replaced by a rubber fist. What does that accomplish?
And Piss Christ? Are you serious? That's art? I couldn't color inside the lines in kindergarten, but I sure as shit could have put a crucifix in a bucket, pissed on it and taken an out-of-focus picture of it. And probably gotten some notoriety for it too. But what would that have accomplished other than proving that I could do it? I'd defend Serrano's right to make that "art" to the last breath, if only because I DO NOT believe in censorship. My question is, why? Just because he could? Did anyone LEARN from Piss Christ? Was anyone ennobled by it? Was anyone made better by it? Maybe, but I don't know.
We cannot expect respect until we show it. The remrkable thing about your posts and so many others like them is how hateful they seem. Where's all the hate coming from? Are you still getting over being picked last for the baseball team? Why do we have to hurt, offend or anger others in order to celebrate ourselves? Your thinking just feels so angry, so much the angry child who's still getting back at people for past wrongs. I'm sorry for your pain, I really am. But how does inflicting it on others heal your own?
I'm sorry, but we simply cannot live together if we don't respect each other. And sometimes, someone has to be big enough to say, okay, I'll go first. Why can't we go first? Why can't we say, we demand to be respected in society and free to live our lives, but we know we're not going to get there by being obstreporous, boorish and brash. The approach has some pretty good street cred. It's sort of the same argument that people like Gandhi and King and Romero used.
You might think about it.
Posted by: HermesDC | Sep 26, 2007 7:06:08 PM
SHHH dont tell CWA or the easily offended gays who post here.
But that poster is TAME.
If you want your XXX porn profane and sure to "send you straight to hell". On October 17th Dark Alley Media’s is releasing PASSIO (yes the gay porn version of the Pasion of The Christ).
From the website:
Matthias von Fistenberg, never one to shy away from controversy, is now taking on perhaps the biggest institution of them all – Jesus Christ himself – in his latest movie, Passio.With films known for bringing a biting wit and kinky gay sex edge to current events (including the award-winning Mutiny and political parody Gaytanamo), the notorious director has gone back 2,000 years to re-imagine the Son of God as Dark Alley Exclusive Danny Fox, out to bring his love to all mankind. Whether tied to the cross, causing problems for Pontius Pilate or turning the Last Supper into a Feast of Flesh, he’s sure to inspire legions of men to kneel in worship.
Yes hot young shaved smooth "Christ" is flogged and sucked while on the cross. And the ad is THE LAST SUPPER ... while in the movie the Christ and his Apostles have sex on the table ... spilling the wine.
xxx link ... make that xxx xxx xxx
http://www.darkalley.com/product.php?productid=16234&partner=grommetick
Posted by: rjp3 | Sep 26, 2007 7:10:43 PM
Boy, this one sure struck a chord.
I gotta say I DO think the dude on the far left is a hot piece of cake. And I think he would look just fine on my DR table.
But I also gotta tell you, this is sort of absurd. If you actually stand back and look at it all, most of you sound like pissed off queens and people like Brad and Hermes sound like they're actually thinking about it all.
I