California | D.L. Hughley | Dan Savage | Gay Marriage | News | Proposition 8

Dan Savage Talks Race and Prop 8 with D.L. Hughley

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Dan Savage appeared on D.L. Hughley's show over the weekend to discuss race, the Prop 8 vote, and the civil rights movement. Watch it, AFTER THE JUMP...

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  1. Why does DL Hughley have a news show? He's not funny or smart.

    Posted by: Wes | Nov 18, 2008 2:34:03 PM


  2. Why do gay people, particularly white gay people, assume that just because you're black or any other racial minority, you automatically understand or empathize with gay people just because they happen to be a minority? I don't assume that just because a white woman happens to be a minority that she won't be racist.

    Posted by: shoepins | Nov 18, 2008 2:45:47 PM


  3. I've seen alot of Dan Savage the last couple of weeks... but not enough! What a prince of a man.

    Posted by: kansastock | Nov 18, 2008 2:50:35 PM


  4. "I don't condone a gay lifestyle"

    Hughley can suck it. Referring to our LIVES as "lifestyles" is so friggin' condescending.

    Posted by: ex hughley viewer | Nov 18, 2008 2:51:17 PM


  5. I have a better question- why is Dan Savage going on the show to discuss race and gay marriage? Where is Keith Boykin? For that matter, where are the clergy on this issue who support gay rights such as marriage?

    It seems odd to have Savage as the spokesperson because in someways he gets stuff just wrong. Unless you are gay white male, then what he says are perfectly okay arguments, but I found myself both in this interview and those involving his Larry King appearance- going "wait, he doesn't realize he has other counter arguments he could be making?"

    I get the feeling that a) Dan does not know many people of color and b) that he knows nothing or at least not much about religion. We need spokespeople who understand something other than the gay white ghetto frame of reference.

    Posted by: The Gay Numbers | Nov 18, 2008 2:54:08 PM


  6. Like so many Professional Negroes, Hughley has no idea who he is or where he came from. Dan Savage is a great guy but he's obviously unaware of the fact that key members of the civil rights movement were gay.

    The March on Washington was created by a black gay man named Bayard Rustin.

    The most important writer on the civil rights movement was a black gay man named James Baldwin.

    The most important play of the civil rights era, "A Raisin in the Sun" was written by a black lesbian named Lorraine Hansbury.

    The most celebrated poet and writer of the Harlem Rennaissance was a black gay man named Langston Hughes and one of his most important allies as a black lesbian novelist and social histoiran named Zora Neale Hurston. In fact the enitre Harlem Rennaissance was a gay and lesbian movement!

    Has L. L. Hughley ever heard of these people?

    More important -- have you?

    Posted by: Da | Nov 18, 2008 2:55:37 PM


  7. I'm pissed Dan didn't clarify with DL his calling gay "a lifestyle." I respectfully submit it must be categorized with the word CONSISTENTLY AND REPEATEDLY - "ORIENTATION." One of the major tasks we gay people face is educating people, teaching them that we are not straight people who have chosen a lifestyle, to me that is the number one most important fact to get across THEN follow with the other stuff.

    Posted by: Alan | Nov 18, 2008 2:59:14 PM


  8. "I don't condone the gay lifestyle"

    On what morality does Mr. Hughley bases his judgement to not condone our "lifestyle" ? Is he god ?

    Posted by: Suzy Sky | Nov 18, 2008 3:00:39 PM


  9. Dan Savage seemed to be off guard and unprepared. DL Hughley made some pretty outrageous statements like, "I'm not homophobic but I don't agree with the lifestyle" which Dan Savage didn't argue strong enough.

    Why aren't people making the argument of the connection fo Loving vs. Virginia (Miscegenation Laws) to today's gay rights marriage battle? Or posing the question to people who claim that civil unions are the same as marriage and ask "Do you want to trade your marriage in for civil unions?" I suspect then people will understand the brevity of the marriage and equal rights.

    Posted by: Rolling Eyes | Nov 18, 2008 3:02:38 PM


  10. Two quotes I loved...

    Savage: You get fired because you're gay, you get fired because you're black, you're still out of a job. If your house gets burned down because you're gay, burned down because you're black, you're still out of a house and maybe dead. Hate is hate.

    Hughley: One thing I don't understand is the government involvement in our bedroom. They can't even deliver my mail.


    Posted by: Alan | Nov 18, 2008 3:02:40 PM


  11. Why does Dan Savage agree with Hughley when Hughley says "I've seen a lot of people, gay activists, make the comparison of the same, uh, basically equating their struggle with the struggle of black people throughout the civil rights era."? Certainly Savage understands that, like race, sexual orientation is not chosen. And certainly Savage understands that GLBT people face discrimination throughout their lives based on their sexual orientation. GLBT people have been denied housing, jobs, and equal protection under the law simply because they don't share the sexual orientation of the majority of the culture. GLBT people have been beaten and murdered because of our sexual orientation over which we have no control. So how, I ask, does our civil rights struggle pale in comparison to the civil rights struggle of black Americans or any other group for that matter? These attempts to quantify suffering are ridiculous because it is simply impossible to accurately measure it. Our civil rights struggle is just as valid as that of any other group.

    And what is with Savage's comment "I sobbed like a little bitch because I am a little bitch?"

    Normally I think Dan Savage is an excellent spokesperson for our community. I cannot understand what went wrong in this interview.

    As for Hughley's comment, "I don't condone the gay lifestyle."...and I don't condone ignorance. Go fuck yourself D.L.

    Posted by: peterparker | Nov 18, 2008 3:09:51 PM


  12. I'm disappointed in Hughley; I thought he was a little more advanced in his thinking. In my experience, comics are typically the first people to realize when things are absurd, which is why most of them are befuddled by the Right's nonsensical and puritanical loathing of gay people and gay rights. Hughley, surprisingly, isn't. Sad.

    Posted by: Red Seven | Nov 18, 2008 3:11:17 PM


  13. While D.L. comments about not condoning the "lifestyle" make me sick, what we are aiming for is equality. if that equality comes there will still be people who hate us and don't approve. blacks in the US fought hard for their rights but racism is still alive and well today. in my opinion the haters can have their bigoted opinions as long as they are not enacting legistion to curb my rights. I agree people need to be educated. We need more than just a 2 minute discussion to air on CNN. It would also help if we had a more diverse set of gay people sent on these talk shows. I havent seen one black or latino gay person asked a question on tv yet!

    Posted by: Pete | Nov 18, 2008 3:12:41 PM


  14. When will people realize that we don't give a flying FUCK if they "condone the gay lifestyle"...really...what is "the gay lifestyle" anyway?

    That's just as ridiculous as me saying that I don't condone the black lifestyle. What is the black lifestyle?!

    Posted by: Cody | Nov 18, 2008 3:13:39 PM


  15. How is it Hugley's fault that Dan is not the right spokesman for the audience in which Dan is talking?

    God, this is the No on 8 campaign apologists all over again. You would think you would learn some lessons. The first of which is choose different spokespeak who can talk to the audience that you are trying to engage.

    I actually think- as I said above- a sex columnist is not the right person to be the spokesperson on these issues. I like Dan's column just fine, but he's not someone who knows how to properly address talking to people who do not already think like him. This is the type of person we need. Not people that posters here because we are the choir.

    I wish people here and in the gay leadership were more objective about our failings.

    Posted by: The Gay Numbers | Nov 18, 2008 3:14:46 PM


  16. Oops...I left off the remainder of Hughley's comment which was "And that hits me even kind of wrong." in referring to comparisons of our civil rights struggle with that of African Americans.

    Posted by: peterparker | Nov 18, 2008 3:15:00 PM


  17. Hughley is a schmuck. Gay lifestyle? What the hell is THAT? Wonder what he'd say if I were to refer to the Black Lifestyle?

    And he's "never met a black atheist?" He needs to get out more, or perhaps just open his damn eyes. Who the hell gave a man this ignorant a show?

    Posted by: Roy | Nov 18, 2008 3:15:02 PM


  18. I think Savage is not the ONLY gay person to be having these many talks with, yet he is always on. In this case, when the 70% factoid came out about the black vote on Prop 8, he wrote a very impassioned blog that in the opinion of many black gay people (judging by a scan of blogs) went over the line and was quite offensive to them. It bothered me, too; the idea of "no more Mr. Nice Guy" in relation to the black community and this vote implies you're just sort of tolerating blacks as long as they're not homophobic, whether or not that was his sentiment. Then he pulled the blog, which angered people more. I just think there were other options, and Keith Boykin has been MIA for too long. Hughley can and probably will go to hell, if it exists, for saying he doesn't condone my 'lifestyle.' He strikes me as someone whose own actual lifestyle is probably very wildly un-sanctified by the church indeed.

    Posted by: Matthew Rettenmund | Nov 18, 2008 3:16:41 PM


  19. Once again- I repeat- a black gay guy would have gotten a different conversation than a white gay sex columnist would.

    Posted by: The Gay Numbers | Nov 18, 2008 3:16:53 PM


  20. Peterparker: as a white gay man, I agree with Dan Savage when he agreed with Hughley that the two movements are not the same ... similar, but not the same.

    Yes, in our nation's history, some gay people have been victimized by an intolerant society, and many more were forced into lives of silence and denial. But it just doesn't compare with forced bondage, slavery, legalized segregation, etc. We were treated as tho' we were sick or perverted. Blacks were literally seen as less than human. The movements are similar, but any white gay person who tries to make inroads within the straight African-American community by suggesting that the two movements are practically identical just because neither race nor sexual orienation are chosen will fail.

    Dan is not suggesting that our movement isn't valid. And he isn't trying to accurately measure the suffering of the two communities. Quite frankly, you don't need to quantify units of measure to know that white gays lecturing straight blacks on the importance of civil rights is a DUMB strategy.

    Posted by: Red Seven | Nov 18, 2008 3:17:40 PM


  21. ARGH! March a little longer? It's also absurd that people pretend that gay people haven't been around as long as other people. Like we are a new breed...I would've put the smack down if I were Savage. This is ridiculous...

    Posted by: Cody | Nov 18, 2008 3:18:19 PM


  22. Wes: "Why do gay people, particularly white gay people, assume that just because you're black or any other racial minority, you automatically understand or empathize with gay people just because they happen to be a minority?"
    Good point, Wes. It's high time we called for all minorities to stop empathizing with all other minorities. Empathy is for losers! From now on, if you aren't the same minority as me, the hell with you!

    Posted by: bobbo | Nov 18, 2008 3:18:38 PM


  23. Hughley has never missed an opportunity to bash gays during his many appearances on HBO's REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER. He's an ugly man, inside and out.

    BTW, did you catch Tammy Lynn Michaels on Oprah recently? She used the loaded phrase "alternative lifestyle" while discussing gay rights, no less. M-O-R-O-N!

    Posted by: JohnInManhattan | Nov 18, 2008 3:21:11 PM


  24. "Normally I think Dan Savage is an excellent spokesperson for our community. I cannot understand what went wrong in this interview."

    Precisely, PETERPARKER, as THE GAY NUMBERS said earlier, why isn't it Keith Boykin, Rod McCullom, Jasmyne Cannick or NOW, WANDA SYKES sparring with DL Hughley on this topic? Black people need to see black gay people take on black homophobes--even mild black homophobes.

    And maybe White Southern Christian fundamentalist folks need to discuss the issue with Southern White Gays. White Christian Southern fundamentalist and Black Christian fundamentalists seem to share the same misconceptions about what it means to be gay: a "lifestyle"--shit like that.

    (and I had no idea what words to capitalize in this comment: black,white, Christian, southern, etc.--it was exhausting.)


    Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Nov 18, 2008 3:22:53 PM


  25. Perhaps if Dan and D.L. had more than 5 minutes and 49 seconds for this conversation, someone could have brought up Bayard Rustin and Lorraine Hansbury and James Baldwin and whatever they might have said about marriage rights. I'm pretty sure both Dan and D.L. have heard of them. Then they could eventually have gotten around to debating the word "lifestyle."

    Dan did start right off by pointing out that the LGBT community and the Black and Latin@ communities are not mutually exclusive. (Should we start giving everybody acronyms? The Black, Latin@, Asian and Multiracial, or BLAM community?) But a brief television interview is no place to veer off point into arguments that are only tangential to the issue you came to talk about.

    Posted by: RhymesWithClergy | Nov 18, 2008 3:24:14 PM


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