Comments

  1. Anonymous says

    This is the *one* thing that makes me very unhappy with Obama. It’s a squirrelly position and *he knows it.* How are marriages in CA, MA, and CT to be recognized at the Federal level? They will have to be recognized as marriages — how will this be accomplished without supporting “gay marriage”? This approach to political pragmatism has left him on the wrong side of history and left him with many intellectual inconsistencies. I wish he had the strength to recognize that he could still have supported complete equality for gay people and won the election.

  2. kujhawker says

    Always nice to see a Black man in favor of the principle of Seperate but Equal. Guess he would like to see Brown V. Board of Education overturned as well.

  3. glennmcgahee says

    Listen, I once thought that I could easily support Barack Obama for President. I worked for Al Gore’s election as hard as anyone. I was witness to Obama’s campain for President at thwe beginning. What did I see? I saw Obama’s “Gospel Tour”. In that tour, Obama paraded through churches throughout the South. He had my head spinning. He sounded exactly like some right-wing preacher touting the gospels and promoting the teaching of Jesus. Thats OK. What wasn’t OK was his demonizing of homosexuals. He kept sayingover and over how the evils of the world would change through the teaching of the bible and prayer. He had ex-gays talking on his behalf saying that prayer had saved them from homosexuality. These were his beginnings. He is a chameleon. He will say anything depending on the audience. His power has come from money. I truly beleive that if he is elected, there will be indictments over his fundraising apparatus. That fundraising is based in Martinique. Why there? There are no banking laws that allow traces.

  4. Mike says

    What concerns me more at this point at all the stories about people thinking in order to support gay marriage you should vote YES on Prop 8. Willie Brown even got confused recently. Can’t people fricken’ read??? Apparently not! Hopefully, people who are completely confused will vote NO. We’ll all know tomorrow night. If the vote comes in close in the central valley, that will be a good sign.

  5. John M says

    This pisses me off so much and reminds me that as much as he says he says he’s a different kind of politician, he’s just as slimy and pandering as all the other ones. You don’t get to have it both ways, either you are for equality or not. I’m still voting for him but I’m going to be pissed off about it and want a separate water fountain installed in the White House for black people so he can see what “Separate but equal” feels like.

    I swear to god if we had to have “faggot” tattooed on our foreheads it would be just like the 1940s for us like it was for black people and apparently Obama would be for it.

  6. RB says

    “This is the *one* thing that makes me very unhappy with Obama”…Really! The ONE thing?!

    Well if Obama thnks that “leaving marriage matters to the states to decide” is the way to go then he needs to get out of the prop 8 debate. The state is simply doing what Obama wants them to do…”decide” on marriage. Classic Obama double speak. Why is this a surprise to anyone?!

    This will only be the beginning of the Obamanation to come. There is only ONE thing that I have heard over and over on Towleroad about Obama, he will give us rights. NO HE WILL NOT! However, we continue to cling to him as our saviour to the gay world and settle for the crumbs he leaves behind. He is a socialist, we will live to see it and we will get NOTHING. Pathetic…

  7. says

    This once again underscores why gay politics is about gay people. And nonbody else. We are the leaders, not them. And certainly not “That one.” Yes I’m voting for him. As usual Democrats are bad. Republicans are INFINITELY worse. It is now the party of unabashed racism. The only difference between the RNC and the KKK is the higher thread count of their sheets.

  8. Chris says

    Some here forget that the religious right still thinks it will win tomorrow and get in full controll of the SCOTUS. That would mean reversal of Roe vs. Wade and Lawrence vs. Texas and even more.

    Obama’s “double speak” is the best you can hope for until the election is won. And even if he gets us our laws with “it would be wrong otherwise” that would still be better than the presidents before him.

  9. says

    I cannot recognize or approve of gay marriage becasue of my religious beliefs but yet wouldn’t those same beliefs prvent him from supporting abortion or are we just hiding our real anti-gay attitude.
    I know of no religion that approves of abortion. Do y’all? So he has no problem with the killing of the unborn but gay marriage, ewwwww.

  10. Rad says

    But unlike Bill Clinton, he’s not pandering to us by promising the world.

    The RIGHT thing Barack said is exactly what “No on 8 is about”; being against initiatives that take away existing American rights.

  11. Sami says

    Fuck you, RB! At least, Obama is speaking out against hatred. What’s McCain done for you lately? Hired a bunch of your selfish LCR colleagues and talked about “family values” at rallies? Keep your moralizing up your ass where it belongs, douchebag.

    As for the rest of nattering nabobs of negativism, if you don’t understand how politics works in this country, that’s your problem. We don’t operate in a perfect system. If you want to get elected in America, there are certain things you have to say and certain things you can’t say. At this moment, you can’t say you’re for marriage equality.

    But eight years ago, you couldn’t say you were for civil unions, and now that’s the centrist position. Things are progressing in our favor quite quickly. Nothing is gonna happen instantaneously. It takes time.

  12. RB says

    RB, he’s no socialist and he’ll be better than anyone before. And I’m still quite certain that he will help repeal DOMA and DADT.

    There is no excuse for not voting for Obama since that is helping those people who want to see us dead.

  13. Chris says

    Even if he’s promising to change the way Washington works he still wants to get elected. Don’t forget that. Some commenters don’t seem to understand that.

    The alternative for him would be to shut up entirely on this issue. I think he has helped Californian gays more by his decision even though it is not welcomed.

  14. B-rod says

    Look, Obama knows how the political game is played – if he came out in favor of gay marriage right now, the Republicans would tar-and-feather him for it. It would be an easy way to club him in the southern conservative States, which are close and Obama needs them to win.

    As one of the previous posts said above, Obama may be personally against abortion (or gay marriage), but he won’t go out and impose his views on women and gays. It’s a live-and-let live philsophy. Once the courts start ruling in our favor (and they will, eventually, we all have to work toward that), having Obama in the White House will ensure we don’t have some ridiculous “Defense of Marriage Amendment” to the Constitution proposed by the president of the U.S. (ala Bush).

  15. noah says

    Kujhwaker,

    I guess you haven’t heard, the Conservative-controlled U.S. Supreme Court overturned Brown v. the Board of Education within the last year. Bush was able to put Right-wing freaks on the Supreme Court who joined the others and killed Brown.

    The question of marriage won’t be settled by legislation. It will be settled by the Supreme Court as Loving v. Virginia did and as state courts have done so.

    Obama is a politician. He’s an ally who can move the chess pieces in the direction that is best aligned to the goals that are important to gay people, right?

    Recently, the NYTIMES.com ran a story about the incredible numbers of young Conservative judges Bush appointed to the U.S. Appellate Courts. In doing so, Bush shoved the Courts to Right. These are judges who will be in place for the next 20 to 30 years potentially.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/us/29judges.html
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjBmNzA4YThiN2YwOWVjODdkMzI1MTBiZWE5NzY1OTQ=

    Electing a progressive president is essential for correcting this wrong-ward shift. Similarly, given the age of the liberal judges on the U.S. Supreme Court, those seats are also in jeopardy of being replaced by arch-Conservatives.

    Sarah Palin has talked about her desire to enact the FMA and follow a legislative course designed by Christian ultra-Right. Imagine the judges that McCain and she would appoint.

    On a similar subject, I wish people would look at other issues that impact gay Americans: ENDA!

    What folks keep missing out on is that marriage, while important, is one right. What about discrimination in the work place? There are millions of gay Americans who live with no legal protection from work place discrimination. None. Zero. Zilch.

    Too little attention is being paid to getting federal law passed that would crush the bigotry that affects GLBT Americans in a way that is arguably just as important than marriage rights. Marriage is a great thing, but what about just being able to have a decent job to put food on the table or roof over one’s head?

    A lot of people who visit Towleroad, I imagine, live in states or communities that offer some protection from work place discrimination. But that’s not the case with the majority of gay people in America. Most live in places with no protection.

    Seriously, I wish there were more discussions about ending work place discrimination. How many people out there have been denied a job or a promotion or been fired for being gay? Raise a digital hand if you have or know someone who has experienced work place discrimination.

    (I’m not bringing up job discrimination to change the subject but simply to note that it is being ignored in this election cycle and in general.)

  16. MARTY says

    Why oh why do people on BOTH sides of this issue get so caught up in its being called “marriage”??? The legal status we seek has nothing to do with “marriage” necessarily, that belongs to churches and the traditions they established. Let them call it whatever they want. What *I* require is the legal status the so many happily call – and happily let be called – “civil unions”. Who cares what they CALL it, just give me my rights! Demanding “MARRIAGE” rights is the biggest mistake the GLBT cause has made, use of that word scared the hell out of all the heterosexuals. Well, most of them anyway.

  17. veronica says

    marty, it’s quite simple… unless you change all hetero marriages into “civil unions” also, it is different. you can’t be truly equal unless the rights AND the language are the same. different is not equal.

  18. says

    I agree with Marty. Does it really matter what we call it? Why should we FOLLOW what straight people call it?

    It doesn’t matter what we call it. As long as we have the same rights, eventually with the evolution of language, the term will become synonymous with marriage.

    Although, I personally am not for “civil union”. Sounds too kumbaya. But oh well, I don’t have a better idea.

  19. Derrick from Philly says

    Those gays who hold Obama’s “typical Democratic Party’s politician’s” position against him are the same gays who didn’t want to vote for him anyway. They are just like many Reagan Democrats here in Pennsylvania and Ohio: trying to find some reason not to vote for Barack Obama.

    For those of you who get a kick out of pointing to blacks who “hypocritically” do not suppport gay marriage: you’re expecting to achieve in 30 years what took black folk 300 years to achieve–equality, or atleast the semblance of equality? What is it about you gay men that makes you think that such rights should be easy for you to achieve? Why should ending your second-class citizenship be so much easier than it was for Black Americans?

    Y’all never wanted to vote for Obama anyway. Now, you’ve got the issue (marriage rights) that you think justifies your decision. Yeah, but as Noah and others have pointed out, the fate of gay marriage rights may end up in federal courts. Let John McCain pick your federal judges, then y’all will not have to compare black civil rights with gay civil rights. With more right-wing federal judges y’all will all be a bunch of “gay niggers” with a return to total second class citizenship…or you can go back to where you were in the 1960s: in the closet.

  20. Naha says

    Get a grip, people.

    Barack Obama is the most pro-gay presidential candidate our nation has ever seen – by far. He will be the most pro-gay president we have ever had – BY FAR. Is he perfect on this issue? No.

    He wants to repeal Dont Ask Dont Tell, pass ENDA, and repeal all of DOMA. He believes in equal rights in the form of civil unions — ok, it is separate but equal, but I’ll take that over the current “fuck you, you get nothing, bitches!”

    Obama doesn’t approve of state constitutional amendments banning marriage. His position is to let states decide whether civil unions or marriages are right for their particular state. This is THE CORRECT POSITION. The federal government should not be dictating marriage law. Marriage is “a state thing.” What the federal government should do is recognize any state’s valid marriages (including gay ones in CA and MA) — without DOMA, I think that is what would happen. Then ideally, the federal government will also move to recognize any state’s valid civil unions, and extend equal rights to those.

    Frankly, if Idaho and Oklahoma want to ban gay marriages, that is their right. They’re retarded, but so be it. No doubt in 50 years, most of these states will reverse this position — in the meantime, gay people who want to get married will just have to move to a more favorable jurisdiction. It’s not that tough for most people to move, this isn’t colonial America.

  21. says

    Obama is wrong on marriage. Whether he’s wrong because he’s actually opposed to it or opposed to it for purely political reasons, he will be on the right side of Prop 8 and the wrong side of history. I understand the practicality of his position, and I disagree with it. That doesn’t change the fact that Obama is miles ahead of John McCain on every gay issue of importance, including gay unions (has McCain said No on 8? No, he hasn’t), so any criticism of Obama needs to be leveled at McCain before leveling another truckload of criticism on McCain/Palin’s anti-gay stances.

    Glenn and RB etc., we know you don’t support Obama, but don’t pretend it has anything to do with gay issues, since you never apply the same standards to Republicans and are silent on pretty much everything except (anti) Obama. Fortunately, unless Sean Hannity hypnotizes the electorate or the Republican Get Out the Fraudulent Vote works, we’ll never have to see what will happen to our rights under President McCain.

  22. soulbrotha says

    Beautifully said, Derrick.

    “What is it about you gay men that makes you think that such rights should be easy for you to achieve? Why should ending your second-class citizenship be so much easier than it was for Black Americans?”

    I think we both know the answer to that question.

  23. nic says

    for cripessake! give obama a break. once he is in office, he will do whatever to insure equal rights for all. anyone of us, even the most dense, should infer that. i am sick and tired of repug fags trying to muddy the waters. the dems will always do better by us gays than the repugs will.

    focus people! focus on the the supremes, the supremes, the supremes. all signs point to an obama victory and a 7 to 10 gain in the senate plus up to 30 seats in the house. when the serious people take charge, maybe we can all get down to business. just stop the silly back-biting! the blacks and educated whites will deliver for obama in the northeast and southeast and the browns will deliver the southwest and west along with progressive whites. we are not each other’s enemies. serious up folks.

  24. busytimmy says

    Obama is not a black American, actually he is bi racial and not so long ago his parent’s own marriage was outlawed in various states. He was raised by his Caucasian mother. While I certainly support him for president, I cannot understand his unwillingness to explicitly support the CA Supreme Court’s decision. He explains away his opposition to our civil rights by stating that he is a Christian. What bullshit. Leaving it up to the states makes gay Americans political prisoners in our own country. Obama need to grow up and realize that civil rights and equal protection belong to gay folks too.

  25. psgoodguy says

    it’s amazing that in this day and age a progressive black man would support jim crow laws for the modern age. how about water fountains labeled “straight” and “gay”. thanks for nuttin’, barack.

  26. says

    Obama is a politician first, last, and always. His position on issues will always reflect to a certain extent what the traffic will bear. Were he to come out in full support of gay marriage he would invite all manner of opposition that doesn’t make political sense for him — or us — at this juncture.

    As Martin Luther King said, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

  27. Derrick from Philly says

    “Obama need to grow up and realize that civil rights and equal protection belong to gay folks too.”

    BUSYTIMMY,

    I betcha’ you coulda’ said the same thing to Lyndon Johnson in 1964 on the issue of interracial marriage, and he turned out to be the best friend black folks ever had in the White House…EVER.

    “Obama is not a black American, actually he is bi racial…”

    TIMMY, this is the USA not Brazil or the Dominican Republic. The racist “one drop doctrine” is deeply woven into American Culture. More young Americans can see beyond that doctrine and accept the term “biracial”, but only after you explain to them your family’s racial make-up.

    Without the “one drop” rule, Bille Holiday and Louie Armstrong wouldn’t have been part of the same race, and America’s musical heritage wouldn’t be shit (exaggeration, but from my heart).

    Hey, ask your typical Republican or Reagan Democrat (or typical American for that matter) what Barack Obama is.

  28. Akaison says

    A list of things that I care about Obama as President doing for gay rights for which he has already said he agrees:

    a) Ending DOMA
    b) Ending DADT
    c) Appointing non-reactionary federal judges including the S. Court.
    d) Ending discrimination against gays and trangendered in housing and jobs

    These are the things that he has President controls and does.

    A list of things that ultimately Obama as President can not control:

    a) The definition of marriage. He can have what ever personal opinion he wants. The most important thing I needed from him was No on 8. The rest is his opinion.

    b) How people will feel about us gays. Many of you bring your emotional baggage about not being accepted for being gay. He won’t change that because laws don’t do that.

    This is what a clear minded approach to Obama’s comment would conclude.

    PS: DERRICK is both right and wrong. Yes, there is a sense of entitlement (coming mostly from white gay men) about how civil rights struggles happens. But, I disagree that this mean we should ever settle for less and must always strive to get everything. Part of the problem early Derrick with the Black civil rights movement was that we took and put up with a lot of shit for way too long.

    PPS: The pitting blacks against whites on this issue by both sides is silly. The irony is that the polling out on Prop 8 is showing that blacks are no more likely (45/45 with 10 undecided) to be for or against than most whites are.

  29. says

    Sometimes I wonder if people posting here actually read or listent to what Obama say. Yes, he says “I am not in favor of gay marriage,” and of course that’s wrong.

    But nowhere does he say “I will fight against gay marriage.” In fact, what he’s arguing for in terms of practical legislation/voting is FOR gay marriage. He’s not upset that the CA Supreme Court found we have a right to marriage. He wouldn’t have argued on the no side. He’s against amending the CA constitution to take away rights because “our constitutions expand liberties, they don’t contract them.” How can anyone find fault with that?

    Instead everyone pounces on the pandering “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman” — but he will not act on that statement in any way to prevent us having access to marriage if courts or legislatures find in our favor.

  30. akaison says

    KEVIN

    That’s because you have two groups here converging. The first are the purists who will not be happy unless he address every point of importance to them- legal, moral, and emotional. That he addresses the only salient one in their favor- the legal ones- isn’t enough for them.

    This dovetails nicely into the second group- the conservatives. They have no interest in seeing a liberal/progressive succeed at all, and this is there opportunity to claim “told you so” by using the perfect as the enemy of the good. In this way, they divide and conquer the purists from the pragmatic. In many ways, it is no different than what Rove did.

    It’s been this way with multiple struggles , and not just this one.

  31. noah says

    Ouslander,

    Not all Christians are against abortion. In fact, many don’t have a problem with it. My family and friends are Christians who have no problem with abortion or gay marriage.

    Why?

    Because there are many different denominations/sects of Christianity that interpret the Bible differently.

    People seem to forget that not all Christians are Right-wing freaks. Martin Luther King Jr was a Christian. One of his chief confidantes was a gay man.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

    RB,

    Please cut the “socialist” crap. No one’s buying that B.S. Given Obama’s own personal wealth, that argument is ridiculous. But it’s even more ridiculous given that Obama’s economic plan is the favorite of the majority of all economists. None of whom has called it socialist.

    I think it’s interesting how conservatives have no problem calling Obama a socialist when the tax rates Obama is proposing is more lenient than those under Reagan. Even more curious, of course, is how conservatives have no problem running up HUGE deficits. McCain proposes more tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans but offers no plans to make up those revenue shortfalls.

  32. nic says

    gee, AKASON, what you and KEVINVT, and DERRICK fR Philly, PA certainly dovetails (as you so adequately describe) with my views. if we take nothing else from this marathon election, it is that if the clintons and the obama side can make nice, we should all be able to work together together. make no mistake, the dems will never march in lock-step like the rethugs do, but that is what makes us attractive. we are a rag-tag group, but when we are sick and tired of being sick and tired, we will always join together for the common good — think FDR, think JFK, think RFK, think MLK, think LBJ. the fact that their initials alone represents them speaks more than any words i could every string together.

    i am heartened and inspirited by the reaction that ordinary americans are saying regarding the election. nevertheless, i am keeping my fingers crossed: i do not trust the voting process that the repugs have set up.

  33. Disgusted American says

    LOOK Im all for Obama..but for him to come right out for the LGBT community and Marriage would be political suicide (sad but true in America) – IF I could afford too..I’d move the hell out of this country. Im sick to death of the hypocracy in the words “Liberty & Justice for All” …really>? ALL…nah….they are just words – EMPTY WORDS! I’ll be voting OBAMA all the way!

  34. noah says

    Sometimes, I wonder how ridiculous we all are as human beings. Yesterday, I read a news report about a 13-year-old Somali girl was stoned to death after coming forward after being gang raped by three men.

    The girl’s community has been conquered by Muslim extremists who put her on trial for adultery. The extremists convicted her and had her stoned to death.

    Stop. Think. Look around yourselves and ask about what freedoms you have today and how they can easily be lost.

    As others have said, Barack Obama is the most openly gay friendly presidential candidate of a major American party in history. I’m sick of listening to the whiners who don’t seem to get how much success the gay rights movement has made or will be able to make because of liberals and progressives.

    With rare exception, the Republicans, the CONSERVATIVES, have been the enemy of the gay rights movement. When push comes to shove in this election, have the Republicans not only used racism against Obama but also anti-gay rights rhetoric?

    Will you people grow the f*ck up? John McCain support Prop 8. The supporters of Prop 8, for the most part, are all Republicans. The gay Republican trolls on this site are spineless. They have no problem kissing the hand, foot, or ass of those would strip you of not only recently gained rights to marry but the other rights won on a local and state levels.

    The gay rethug idiots scream bullsh#t about “socialism” but had no problem supporting George Bush as he disregarded the Constitution and used tools of authoritarian Communist Russia: warrantless wiretaps, secret prisons, torture, etc.

    So, people, focus! Tomorrow’s election matters!

    1. Enacting ENDA
    2. Killing DOMA
    3. Killing DADT
    4. Enacting fully equal civil unions

    and

    5. Restoring the Rule of Law
    6. Putting progressives on the courts
    7. Ending a stupid war
    8. Helping the working & middle classes
    9. Etc.

    You are living at a crucial point in history. Are you going to take a stand and fight for your rights by voting for candidates who give a damn about you or will you be suckered?

  35. mike says

    Barry, honey, you can’t have it both ways. Either you support civil equality for law-abiding, tax-paying American citizens or you don’t. No parsing, Barry. Same-sex couples either are equal participants in American society or they are not. Don’t hide behind the “I am for civil unions but I am against gay marriage because of my christian beliefes” bullsh*t. Barry, baby, this is the ONLY thing that might make me go ahead an pull the McCain lever. At least McCain is HONEST in his hypocrisy. You come across as simply condescending. I don’t need condescension, Barry. I need equality.

  36. says

    C’mon guys! See the bigger picture here. Obama is doing what he HAS to do; and saying what the audience wants to hear makes him a politician seeking votes, not some demonish hypocrite. Obama will support gay rights. He’s been to gay-oriented fundraisers on the downlow (as he has to be). The Republicans will snatch any opportunity they can to exploit Obama for supporting the “dangerous and perverted homosexual agenda.” Wake-up fellas; this is how the game must be played for right now. Obama is our friend and anyone who thinks other needs to have their priorities checked.

  37. liminality says

    so I have a question.
    I am definitely NOT going to vote for the McCain/Palin ticket for obvious reasons (i.e they stand for everything I stand against) but I’m still reluctant to vote for Obama. Before you all call me a ‘freeper’ or ‘idiot’ or what have you, let me explain: I’ve accepted the fact that our government is hopelessly corrupt, and that simply electing a president is not going to change things on the scale I’d like to see them changed. The issues that I care about are:
    1) Our governments obsessive need to control the political/economic status of the Middle East
    2) Homosexuals being accepted as full human beings
    3)Oceanic oil drilling (which I STRONGLY oppose) and
    4) responsible conservation of resources (such as water, air, food, etc)

    I have attempted to research Obama’s views on these issues, but due to the fact that it’s election season, concrete viewpoints are hard to come by. It seems to me that (and please don’t bite my head off for saying this) his views on these issues do not differ much from McCains. He seems to have no problem with coastal drilling, and they both seem to think that we aren’t worthy of marriage. So, on the eve of the election, would anyone be willing to honestly (and preferably, in a kind tone) give me reasons why I, concerning the issues I stated, should vote for Obama? I’d appreciate it. At this point, I feel like voting for either of them would be voting against my beliefs.
    Thanks in advance.

  38. ParsonFred says

    Just an FYI regarding Obama’s Christian faith.

    He has been a long-time member of a congregation (Trinity UCC) that is part of the United Church of Christ. The United Church (national) General Synod approved a resolution in favor of full marriage equality for same-sex couples in 2005. The church considers same-sex marriages to be the spiritual equivalent of hetero marriages. I’m a gay UCC pastor that has presided over 4 same-sex weddings and counting!

    Anyway, here’s the point: if Obama is saying his Christian faith compels him to reject same-sex marriage, then he’s listening to some church teachings other than those from his own denomination.

  39. says

    “It seems to me that (and please don’t bite my head off for saying this) his views on these issues do not differ much from McCains.”

    You honestly think this? Obama’s concrete viewpoints are right there on his website, and on the issues you say you’re interested in, I think you’ll find Obama much closer to your concerns. Go there. Read. But, come on, you’re still undecided, now? Really? If you’re waiting for the perfect presidential candidate who has a realistic shot at the job, you’ll be waiting a long, long, long time.

  40. liminality says

    please understand, Ernie, that I am not ‘undecided’ about whether to vote for Obama or McCain, I am undecided about whether to vote for Obama or not vote at all. I don’t think his website is as concrete as you say. It does lay out certain positions, but only vaguely. I understand the whole ‘to get elected there are some things you shouldn’t say’ argument, but frankly, I don’t see his willingness to play the old political games instead of expressing bold opinions as being indicative of any real “change”.

    Anyway, thank you for your prompt reply. I will more than likely vote out of social responsibility because, to paraphrase you, perfect president candidates are hard to come by, and he DEFINITELY is more capable than that old imp and what’s-her-name. I have to say, though, I do long for braver leaders. Just because they will piss on you instead of shit on you is no real reason to vote for someone.

  41. Steve says

    I don’t get the Obama love and the Clinton hate. Obama has basically used gay marriage as a strategy to win Mr. and Mrs. Bigot, where Bill was the first President who very openly loved the gays. Maybe he wasn’t able to do everything he wanted, but his attitude alone made a huge difference. I can’t see how Obama’s attitude will help us at all. This election, like most of them is a decision between the lesser of two evils.

  42. UFLYUY says

    Liminality and anyone else still undecided… Why dont you try these sites to see who you match up with?
    http://www.vajoe.com/candidate_calculator.html

    http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008.html

    I tried them both and got Obama 77/75% and McCain 32/37% matches. The one site only has the guys still running while the second one has everyone who appears to have ever thought about running. In that one I scored 83% with Biden as the highest and best match. It would be interesting to see where you fall in line with a match of those still in the running.

  43. Milan says

    Liminality, your obvious choice is Ralph Nader. He’s a non-interventionist who wants to change U.S. policy in the Middle East, supports gay marriage, wants to phase out all fossil fuels and ban offshore drilling, and is a paragon of environmental conservation.

    All of that adds up to one very brave leader in my book. He certainly won’t win, but if you’d rather vote your conscience than view the election as a horse race and your vote as a bet, choose Nader.

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