1. says

    Sadly, there are huge amounts of misinformation leading many to conclude that Mormons bear some vendetta against homosexuals.

    Fortunately, this is not the case. Even church leaders have officially stated that they do not oppose civil unions so that gays may obtain the rights they deserve. Mormon reasons for opposing prop 8 are subtle and not well understood by most gay marriage proponents, so they accept the most obvious reasons for Mormon opposition to homosexual marriage: that they must hate gays and wish to prohibit their lifestyle.

    I respect the right of gay marriage advocates to protest, but they should do so with a correct understanding of the LDS church’s position on gay rights.

  2. MP says

    I posted this elsewhere, but think it is worth repeating…In regards to demonstrations against discrimination against gays, I have to ask, where is Chicago or Atlanta? New York is ready. The hometown of Barack Obama is silent. The south is silent. It only took a couple days for illegals to organize and march against our country in major cities, however, gays are so disorganized with too many “Chiefs and not enough Indians”, that the gay community is like a dysfunctional child. No wonder the church can walk all over us. No wonder we lost four ballot issues this election.

    A UK artist has provided some poster art @ for use as posters, website art, etc.

    Didn’t anti-gay Dr. James Dobson’s Focus on the Family just get inducted into the radio Hall of Fame in Chicago? Any protests or are Chicago gays celebrating Barack Obama’s election and not working for/with the rest of the gay community??

  3. MP says

    ‘Will’, you sound like you are accepting the Mormon rhetoric. They are trying to make amends after all their lies. They didn’t think it would backfire on them. They are trying to appear as the oppressed instead of the oppressor. They are playing games. Again, trying to make gays the enemy of society. Did you know that Mormon’s cannot marry outside of the temple? They can’t go to a justice of the peace, the ceremony has to be in the temple. They say they just don’t want gays using the word “marriage’. Brings back memories of when the Olympic committee banned gays from using the words “Gay Olympics”. I found the below posted at another site….

    “Marriage” is generic, “holy matrimony” is the sacrament when it takes place in the church. If I am not mistaken, the word “marriage” is not even used in church weddings. Here are a few other definitions of marriage:

    1. “any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song”
    2. “a blending or matching of different elements or components: The new lipstick is a beautiful marriage of fragrance and texture.”
    3. “Cards. a meld of the king and queen of a suit, as in pinochle.”
    4. “a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.”

    Gay humans are less than antique furniture or a deck of cards. There are even marriage ceremonies for pets. You don’t see the church protesting antique dealers, card players or pet owners. What this was, was pure discrimination. Since Bush 43 has been in office, religion has taken a strong hold politically.

    I loved how the churches talk about democracy, especially when they are the largest socialist entity in the world. The church is known for discrimination. They decide who and who can’t be members, they decide who they want to marry and who they don’t (besides gays, some will not marry anyone who was divorced and that was not going to change if Prop 8 was defeated). Organized religion is run by a dictatorship. The followers are told what to do, and they do it. All the clergy says, ‘in accordance with God’, and like puppets on a string they jump. It is sad that the Bible, aka the ‘good book’. is used for hate.

  4. elg says

    “No wonder the church can walk all over us. No wonder we lost four ballot issues this election.”

    What about the eleven ballot initiatives we lost on same-sex marriage in 2004, including in my own state of Ohio? There was virtually NO OUTCRY in 2004 anywhere, that I can recall.

    Better late than never but why is California so special?

  5. Leland Frances says

    1. Fuck you Mormon Troll Will. And NOT in the GOOD way!

    2. Unless Anderson Cocksucking Coward Cooper came out in the interview linked he’s no better than our HONEST enemies. He’s the kind of self-serving prick who, were he Jewish and this 1933, he’d be standing outside the camps reporting on their interesting shaven heads.

    3. Unless Hillary Rosen, Former Consort of Elisabeth the Queen Birch, who when Birch was head of HRC CASTRATED the movement, turning it into a nothing more than a worthless moneysucking machine.

    4. Ya want evidence of religous collusion even as they try to deny it? See below. Too bad there’s no RICO Act for those who conspire to rape the Constitution.

    “Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.

    Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California.

    The June letter from Niederauer drew in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and proved to be a critical move in building a multi-religious coalition – the backbone of the fundraising, organizing and voting support for the successful ballot measure. By bringing together Mormons and Catholics, Niederauer would align the two most powerful religious institutions in the Prop. 8 battle. ……….”

    Here’s the Archdiocese office telephone number:

    (415) 614-5500

  6. says

    Hilary had some astute things to say on Prop 8, and it’s refreshing to hear a sophisticated discussion of where things are and where they might go, but it continues to be surreal to hear talking heads who are gay discuss Prop 8 like it has nothing in particular to do with their lives. They probably claim they’re being “objective” and that their “personal lives” are not the issue, but it creates a pretense that, for instance, Roland Martin didn’t (and couldn’t, since blackness isn’t easily made invisible) have to adopt when he discussed race in relation to Prop 8.

  7. says

    So now that the Catholics, Baptist Fundies, and the Mormons have joined forces to beat up on the gays and lesbians, and seem to be having some success with 30 states now having anti-gay laws in one form or another, are they going to go after the Jews and Muslims which do not have any Gee-sus in their dogma?

    Yes. let’s become one holy nation of
    Gee-sus suckers. However, as I regard the aforementioned unholy trinity to be nothing but thieves with no honor at all, they won’t be able to hold their cabal together long enough to bring about a capitulation of the First Amendment. They are biting off more than they can chew.

    They will find, I think, that with Pres. Obama, who is NOT the angry black man they think he is, a cool character who will not succumb to appeasing the base of religious fanatics.

  8. Banne says

    I haven’t read it but am assuming the article about what WE can learn from Obama is suggesting that we lie and pretend we oppose inequality and wink to the side that that is all just puffing for moderates who want our votes? And then do nothing for the next 8 years to advance any real equality. Not supporting discriminatory legislation is the least any politician can do and while it’s better than what we have had for 8 years, it isn’t enough. Every minority has had to fight for equality. Bobby Kennedy stood up when it was impossibly difficult and fought for equality for blacks. Yet we praise Obama’s passive stand on equality? Please. I have nothing to learn from Obama. If I want to learn, I’ll go to the people who brought real change in this country. You kids need to wake up.

  9. Leland Frances says

    San Franciscans: don’t waste your time going to the “Impact” event Saturday. It’s clearly being run by the same kind of 20-somethings who were at the core of Friday night’s event who are more focused on the thrill of screaming and taking over the streets with impunity than actual CHANGE. Apparently all that will be impacted is bowels.

    I wrote the organizers, suggesting they protest at the home of the homohating SF Archbishop rather than another giant circle jerk in front of City Hall where EVERYONE supports us. Her[?] response:

    “… it’s about coming together as a community. We’re holding the rally at City Hall because

    (a) it’s the center of civic life/power in SF and organizing there has immense symbolic value. It shows that GLBTQI people are active citizens engaged in their communities, there are a lot of us, and we will support legislators and politicians that support us.
    (b) on a more pedestrian note, it’s a huge open plaza and flat, so it’s easier for handicapped access and holding a big gathering.”

    In other words: it IS a giant circle jerk…but with handicapped access.

  10. 24play says

    Poor, poor Banne. Never got over seeing Hillary get kicked to the curb. And now labors under the delusion that someone here gives a shit what he thinks about an article he proudly refused to read—but feels the need to weigh in on anyway.

  11. says

    “Yet we praise Obama’s passive stand on equality? Please. I have nothing to learn from Obama.”

    FYI, Banne, Obama hasn’t actually been president yet, honestly. Not for a minute, let alone 8 years. So it seems a tad premature to say he will do nothing to bring about change or greater equality. Unless you’re psychic? Otherwise, you’ll have to save that argument for a few years, and maybe you’ll learn something in the meantime.

  12. PatrickPatrick says

    “Seeing my church where I come every Sunday… it kind of just hurt in a way.”


    “I feel badly for those people that have such anger within them that they would do something like this…”


    I just hope…that they will realize the Gospel teaches us to love one another and not do things like this.


  13. Wheezy says

    And now a quote from Brigham Young:

    “Marriage is a civil contract. You might as well make a law to say how many children a man shall have, as to make a law to say how many wives he shall have. It would be as sensible to make a law to say how many horses or oxen he shall possess, or how many cows his wife shall milk.”

  14. John in CA says

    I thought San Francisco’s homo hating archbishop, Cardinal Levada, has been promoted to Ratzinger’s old job as head of the Inquisition in Rome.

    Is he even around for you to protest?

  15. Hephaestion says

    Mormons are all brainwashed zombie idiots. I wish they would open their minds for a milli-second and start a discussion with gay people. But all they ever do is talk. They never listen. Pathetic.

    Where do Donnie and Marie stand on all this? Did Donnie not meet any gay folks on Broadway for Christ sake???

  16. says

    I think the H8 signs are counter-productive. Yes, we’re angry, but only coming off as bitter won’t move anyone in the right direction. We need to show people why their arguments/positions are off-base and idiotic, not “hateful”. I agree that what they’re doing is hateful, but I just don’t think that rhetoric is helpful.

    I think my sign (here in Seattle) will have these on the front and back:
    “Protect our Son/Recognize our Marriage”
    “Marriage = Love and Commitment/Not Genitalia”

  17. mike shackleford says

    I’m amazed by the paucity of donations to No on 8 that came from Wash, DC. In addition DC has been silent so far as protests. Where’s the outrage? Oh that’s right, people in DC think “outrage” is a dance club.

  18. Andre says

    Actually if you go to the sfgate page with the info about dentists contributions and search DDS you’ll find that the 1 dentist who donated to No on 8 is actually a writer for the Bay Area Reporter (a gay newspaper in SF) with the last name of doDDS. :-) I didn’t see any other DDSs in SF who donated either way and there are probably 100+ dentists in this city. It kind of makes me think a lot of the other DDSs could be bad search results (as in “bad search” not bad “search results”)

  19. David T says

    Boycott these Mormon Owned Businesses:
    Black and Decker, Sky West, La Quinta, Franklin-Covey, American Express, Iomega, Huntsman Chemical, Oakley, Priceline Albertsons, Nu Skin, Marriot, Jet Blue, Novell, Bain Capital, Dell

  20. says

    ELG, I put this into an email to a friend, I don’t know if it is the answer to your question, but I think California was the catalyst that was needed. It is not a doomsday scenerio, but I think it may explain some things…

    “I really believe that gay organizations initially started out to work hard and help, but I think they have gotten comfortable. I think there are too many also. Some may disagree, saying we need more, but then everything is spread to thin and everyone else thinks that someone else is doing it, whatever “it” is. Then nothing gets done. In the eight years of the Bush Administration and the take over of the Republican Party by the religious right, gays have figuratively been crucified, and no one stood up to stop it. I am hoping California gays losing a right, the right to marry, awakens the sleeping community. Gays have lost position in every election in the last 8 years. I don’t have the facts, but I have heard that at least 30 states have laws on the books against gay marriage, and that is all in the last few years while we slept and let them do what they wanted to us. These gay leaders, both state and federal, whom most of us have no idea who they are, are getting paid for doing absolutely nothing to further gay rights. Ten years earlier, Matthew Shepard was murdered, and we still can’t get a hate crime bill passed in many states or federally. Just a year ago, Oklahoma State Representative Sally Kern stated that gays were worse than terrorists; and she just got re-elected! It just gets worse and worse.”

  21. Niemsters says

    I think that the protesters are going about things all wrong. One of the major reasons Prop 8 passed was because people were afraid it was an attack on thier religious liberties. So what does everyone do when it passed? Attack churches and criticize religious liberties. People also voted Yes on it because they were upset about the courts over turning the rule of the people. So what’s the second thing we do? Try to get the courts to over throw the will of the people again. Profanity, violance, distruction of property, name calling… they all just work against us. Instead we ought to focus on restoring the individual rights that are lost, and down the road revisit the marriage issue. Make friends not enemies. Be smart not stupid.

  22. says

    What you are saying is just to do what we have all along, sit back and take it until the courts side with us? Slowly, every state is voting our rights away. WE HAVE SAT BACK FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS, WHERE HAS IT GOTTEN US? The gay community needs to quit being pacifists and become activists. Your attitude, and no offense, is the reason we are where we are…losing our rights!

  23. Scott says

    I had no idea where to post this, but I wanted to post something.

    I am 52 years old. My wife and I live in Montana. I have lived in Montana my entire life. I haven’t known many gay people, but I’ve been watching what’s happening in CA and I want to tell everyone involved this: You must hold firm in your belief that you are on the side of right and justice. You are fighting an historically important fight. You join an important and select group of Americans who have stood up and sacrificed so that all of us can be free.

    We wanted to thank you. We will do what we can to support you. Keep up the fight.

  24. brad says

    I am so pissed off with this nation.
    So I guess we have to wait another 8 years until we get a president that agrees with us. Maybe in 1/20/2017 we can get a president that wants real change.

  25. daisy says

    Pat Berglund, said, ‘I feel badly for those people that have such anger within them that they would do something like this… I just hope that people’s hearts will be softened, that they will realize the Gospel… teaches us to love one another and not do things like this.'”

    she must be talking about supporting Prop 8.

  26. Donny B says

    MP, Chicago did protest this past Saturday. James Dobson’s radio program, Focus on the Family, was being inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame by the Museum of Broadcast Communications. 200-300 people gathered outside opposing him and his stance on gay marriage. There was news coverage, too:

    You can see pics here:

    I’m assuming Andy hasn’t posted anything about it because he didn’t know, unless he did post something about it and I didn’t see it, but now you all know! Go Chicago!

  27. Asphyxia 8 says

    The downloadable protest signs are great, and I’d love to use one at tomorrow’s rally in NYC. Unfortunately — and please pardon my ignorance — but how do you get them to print on legal- or letter-sized paper? That’s all my printer can accommodate, but the text seems to be just slightly larger, even when I reduce the margins to their lowest possible settings. Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks!


  28. says

    RJ, you are right, facist is a better term. I was just trying to put into perspective the point that they wanted to paint Obama and judges as socialist. However, your definition is much truer.

    DONNY B, thanks for the info. I didn’t see the protest mentioned on Towleroad either, only the initial call, but no follow-up. NBC local websites have a default, where it sends you directly to their homepage. So, when I tried the link, it just sent me to the homepage. I did a search on “dobson” on the site, and it brought me directly to the link. Thanks again, I had seen nothing on it.

    ASPHYXIA 8, go back to the website and with your mouse right click on the large pics shown (annotated as “GIF Versions for the WEB”). Then click on “Save Picture As” and save it to your computer. Then go to your print program (photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, etc.) and open that program. In the program, open the file (picture) so it shows on screen. Then go to print. Most print programs default to “fit to page”, if not you might have to click on that. Then just print it out. That is as basic as I can get, since I don’t know what programs you have on your computer. Let me know here if you were able to get it the way you wanted. Suggestions for others: Print out both and paste them side by side on poster board. Great for T-Shirt iron-ons too!

    SCOTT, Welcome to the newest “civil rights” movement. You and your wife are welcomed with open arms.

  29. Ideaguy says

    “Shame on You! Shame on you! Shame on you!

    Is that all you guys can say? You sound like a bunch of retards and sissies. A bunch of chickens with their heads cut off if you ask me.

  30. CK says

    Regarding: Boycott these Mormon Owned Businesses:
    Black and Decker, Sky West, La Quinta, Franklin-Covey, American Express, Iomega, Huntsman Chemical, Oakley, Priceline Albertsons, Nu Skin, Marriot, Jet Blue, Novell, Bain Capital, Dell

    Is it 100% confirmed, David T, that these companies are definitely all Mormon owned? Just wanna make sure I don’t boycott someone that made a list by mistake…

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