SF Supervisor Bevan Dufty Introduces Resolution Condemning Vandalism of Holy Redeemer Church

DonohueSaid Donohue: “In the wake of Proposition 8, innocent persons have been assaulted, churches have been vandalized, a white substance resembling anthrax was sent to the Knights of Columbus and to Mormon temples, supporters of traditional marriage have been branded Nazis, African Americans have been called the ‘N-word,’ houses and cars have been trashed, etc. Unfortunately, most of those in the gay community have been silent about these acts. Part of the blame for the latest attack goes to San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom and the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. Both Newsom and the Board have shown nothing but contempt for the First Amendment rights of Catholics. When crucifixes are sold as sex toys and Catholic sensibilities are assaulted by naked men in the street at the annual Folsom Street Fair, they say nothing. When gay men dressed as nuns show up at Mass—at the same church—they say nothing. But the Board was quite vocal about condemning the Catholic Church in 2006, something which led to a lawsuit triggered by the Catholic League and the Thomas More Law Center…For those who love to write about ‘root causes,’ let them ponder the guilt of these public officials. Moreover, leaders in the gay community show no leadership when it comes to denouncing incivility committed in the name of gay rights. This has got to end.”

Comments

  1. mike (formerly of San Francisco) says

    who gives a shit about a church’s good works? It doesn’t change the fact that the Catholics are fucking with my family and my rights and they’re lucky they’ve only been vandalized.

  2. Sean says

    Catholics do no good works that aren’t either motivated to allow them to commit larger and more egregious acts, or to cover up the ones they’ve already committed. Let’s not kid ourselves about them. I was one for almost 20 years.

    Vandalizing their church? Why so outraged? Synagogues and black churches get it all the time. Now the Catholics can learn to remove graffiti like the rest of the world.

    Grab a scrubbrush Padre. Just like the rest of us do.

  3. SFshawn says

    The Catholic Church is so fucking pissed off at Gavin Newsom that they will say and do anything to get attention. Fuck them.
    If they spent more time actually helping people instead of fucking with their personal lives then maybe the world would be better with them in it but until that time they better just STFU!!! Especially in San Francisco where being a Catholic(or other religious zealot) don’t mean shit!

  4. Eric says

    You people are repulsive and don’t even bother to even care about a parish that has spoken out against Prop 8 and that continues to do so much good work for the gay community of San Francisco.

    Instead you resort to right wing tactics like painting entire groups in broad strokes.

    Stop the hate-mongering. You’re only dividing the gay community even further.

  5. says

    H8 breeds HATE. Who is surprised? Unfortunately, individual churches will be lost in the big picture, since the BIG PICTURE here is Entire Religious Institutions hell-bent on hurting our families. Can “open & affirming, gay -friendly” Mormon and Catholic churches survive if the BIG CHEESES at the top are not? Perhaps some religions should be jettisoned entirely (by Q’s).

    My predictions for 2010 here:
    http://gaytaxprotest.blogspot.com/2009/01/hate-in-2008-armageddon-in-2010.html

  6. alguien says

    i seem to recall back when i lived in san francisco, that most holy redeemer was one of the most gay-positive churches in the city. i’m inclined to believe that vandlizing MHR like that is akin to shitting in one’s own home. i mean what’s next? going after old first?

  7. TikiHead says

    I thought the spray job was marginal at best, penmanship was appalling, and nearly illiterate in spelling — they sprayed an ‘R’ and then tried go over it again to make it a ‘P’ ! There are no do-overs in spray painting. The guilty should be forced to write it 100 times on the church until it’s perfect.

  8. The Avatar of Blue says

    Oh wow. Shocking that people are being INcivil about the trampling of our Civil rights. QQ Moar, catholics.

  9. stevielee says

    “Gay Friendly Catholic Church” is so oxymoronic that it’s akin to saying “jewish friendly nazis”, or “black friendly KKK groups.

    Bevan Dufty is one of those self-hating gay hypocrites who spouts “tolerance” for an intolerant cult like the Catholic mafia.

    I am proud of the fact that I participated in an ACT-UP ZAP against his Hinny-ness in 1988, and also took part of the Stop-The-Church action at St Patricks in 1989.

    The Catholic church is a criminal organization that should be countered by any GLBT person seeking their basic civil rights and human dignity. You cannot “tolerate”, or make peace with, or accommodate intolerance and hate..period.

  10. says

    Don’t be surprised if it turns out that the vandalism was perpetrated by Catholics specifically to drum up some sympathy and to make “the gays” look bad.

    As for this parish being “pro-gay.” That’s rather like saying that the local branch of the KKK doesn’t hate black folks.

  11. bryanD1 says

    It sure as hell didn’t a resolution. It’s graffiti for god’s sake, you see it every day. This Donohue guy is right wing scum, an extremist, and a complete homophobe…he shouldn’t be part of any intelligent conversation.

  12. MammaB says

    Three questions:

    Can we have a discussion that is more nuanced than “Gay = good, Catholics = bad”? This “I don’t care if you are Mother Teresa, nothing that you’ve ever done, no matter how noble, matters if you are Catholic” line of reasoning is a little too simplistic.

    Is it possible that there are better places to channel anger than onto the wall of one of the least offensive Catholic/religious places, home to one of the least offensive Catholic congregations in California? Yes, nobody died, but the use of the swastika should give pause to us when we’ve frequently been the target of the same kind of stunt.

    Could the look on Bill Donahoe’s face, as he cradles “Twilight of Liberty” be any more telling? Can’t wait for the sequel, “Sunset of Liberty, Dawn of Sodom”. He’ll be grinning ear to ear in that publicity shot.

  13. MammaB says

    Three questions:

    Can we have a discussion that is more nuanced than “Gay = good, Catholics = bad”? This “I don’t care if you are Mother Teresa, nothing that you’ve ever done, no matter how noble, matters if you are Catholic” line of reasoning is a little too simplistic.

    Is it possible that there are better places to channel anger than onto the wall of one of the least offensive Catholic/religious places, home to one of the least offensive Catholic congregations in California? Yes, nobody died, but the use of the swastika should give pause to us when we’ve frequently been the target of the same kind of stunt.

    Could the look on Bill Donahoe’s face, as he cradles “Twilight of Liberty” be any more telling? Can’t wait for the sequel, “Sunset of Liberty, Dawn of Sodom”. He’ll be grinning ear to ear in that publicity shot.

  14. sfcatholic says

    I’m a long time member of Most Holy Redeemer. The parish has conducted nothing but absolute love for everyone who steps through the door: left wing, right wing, sisters of perpetual indulgence, homeless, gay, straight, families whatever…

    The basic message being lost in larger church is love. I don’t see anyone from the SF Archdiocese trying to overturn capitol punishment.

    A little graffiti? That’s no big deal. See how lovely other members of the church treat us below. There is so much harassment that we are numb. Be sure to catch the comments by readers of the last link.

    http://sanfrancisco-catholic.com/

    http://www.qdomine.com/

    http://www.calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=48229f4f-7acc-4888-bc9e-3db0bd90ea3b

  15. SFGAY says

    Bevan Dufty has become the king of milk toast posturing. What some prick did to the church is stupid and nothing more that tragic graffiti from a tragic person. But of course Bevan, the paper-iest of paper tigers, has to waste the tax payers time & money with a proclamation. What a drip.

  16. says

    O’Reilly was on about this as well, claiming that all left wingers and gays really just hate Catholics. They’re so paranoid.

    Frankly I could care less what they do, as long as they don’t mess with my rights. Destroying the Catholic Church is not high on my gay agenda at all.

  17. Rocco says

    Anyone who has ever been to MHR, or did a quick google, would know that the parish is
    almost all gay/bi male, including the priests. One of the first HIV related hospices and support groups in SF started there.

    The church (any church) is its people. It’s not the hierarchy. Hardly any money collected goes back to the archdiocese, even less to the Vatican. Clearly the Vatican has a terrible legacy against many groups of people, including our community. Very few people of MHR could be construed as anti-gay, as most are gay themselves (& not the Roy Cohn variety). There are gay Catholics, Jews, Evangelicals, etc. There are (even) gay Republicans(no, not me)!!! WE all don’t need to be identical. Most of us are working toward the same goals.

    After Proposition 8 passed almost all of us are angry (including me…. my partner and I were married just before its passage).

    Let’s try to be a little bit easier on each other, we need to work together to overturn it, not scapegoat each other.

  18. Kyle says

    Rocco, a church might be its people, but each and every time a gay man contributes to that church, he funds the hierarchy. Be Catholic all you want, but if you are giving money to the church, you are hurting yourself and your community.

  19. Eric says

    The right wing is almost justified in saying that gays hate Catholics, based on the comments here.

    The comparisons of the Church to hate groups is appalling.

  20. TANK says

    I doubt it, Rocco, unless you’re the vaticans chief accountant. Perhaps you’re your parishes accountant, then, huh?

    However, you support the hierarchy and extremism by invoking the same faith as they use to condemn you. I don’t know of too many black klan members aside from that skit on the chapelle show…this isn’t that different.

  21. TANK says

    It’s apalling? WHat’s appalling is william donohue’s rampant antisemitism and homophobia. WHat’s apalling is the vatican’s declaration that homosexuality is a disorder and that homosexuals are intrinsically disordered (as usual, that’s catholic dogma stripping nature from “natural law”). What’s appalling is that Ratz has said that this “intrinsic disorder” needs to be extended to civil law, and that gay should basically be punished…

    Eric, you’re delusional if you’d suggest that this isn’t a hate group.

  22. Rocco says

    You can doubt what you like, Tank. I have tracked it since I came out, as I did not want my money to support the Vatican. It is not difficult to do, but you don’t seem too interested in honest discussion or facts. I would also say your hostility to a diversity of thought does far more damage to GLBT folks than any contribtions I may make to my parish. Your hyperbole does not intimidate me any more than their lies about my life or my family. I will not be chased out of my church or my community.

  23. says

    It makes me angry that we cannot be unanimous in condemning vandalism. Destroying other people’s property is not a helpful way to make a political point.

    But, Eric, the Church is a hate group. It’s many other things, too, but it is a group dedicated to terrorizing and marginalizing sexual minorities.

  24. TANK says

    Seriously? You want to play up the hostility to the “diversity of thought angle”? You realize that’s one of the three central planks in the intelligent design advocate’s strategy, right? “It’s about providing all angles…fairness…blah blah blah blah”. It’s just as unjustified and vacuous a rhetorical device there as it is here. I’ve noticed that the xtians always run to the lion cages when times get tough.

    I’m calling a group that is ostensibly defined in its allegiance to a hierarchy a hate group because it publically decries homosexuality with hate speech, dehumanizing homosexuals and encouraging hate based violent activity carried out against them. I’m calling a group a hate group that funds and supports legislative initiatives that strip a minority of its civil rights.

    But, Rocco, I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you believe that your donations don’t go toward catholic charities–which shut down its adoption division in MA after it couldn’t discriminate against same sex parents who wanted to adopt… You realize that (and this is for dramatic effect) that the third reich had many public works programs it funded, too, yes? You realize that the KKK had a public relations division and sponsored many community events in its heyday, ya?

    In any event, people like you give the fundamentalists within your faith a pass simply in virtue of defending your faith and having the same faith as they do, plus or minus disputes that are relegated to internal conflicts. This isn’t the necessary external criticism of the faith that they believe gives them warrant to use hate speech and carry out bigotry. But keep out to the hopeless, rocco. After all, it seems like you enjoy playing the martyr.

  25. says

    It’s nearly impossible to imagine how Dufty could DO LESS! A church is defiled and his response is to write some crap and take a vote?!?

    Leadership is in the deeds!

  26. Ben says

    WHEREAS, it took the Catholic Church nearly 400 years to retract Galileo’s imposed heresy and concede the earth, in fact, orbits the sun, and;

    WHEREAS, they still recoil from Darwin.

    RESOLVED, I do not give a shit.

  27. MammmaB says

    Tank:

    This “I don’t care if you are Mother Teresa, nothing that you’ve ever done, no matter how noble, matters if you are Catholic” line of reasoning is a little too simplistic.

    Seriously.

    You want to attack the Pope, or any jerk who preaches against us, more power to you. (In particular you should read what the faithful have to say about Rocco’s congregation, and have a go at them.)

    But to say that Eric and Rocco are giving the Pope a pass is just willful stupidity and self indulgent jerking off.

    Wipe up and grow up.

  28. KJ says

    If the Catholic Church were as anti-black as they are anti-gay, then how many weeks, months, or years would you adorn their pews?

  29. SamSong says

    When is Bevan Dufty going to introduce a resolution condemning the Archbishop for his campaign for Prop 8 and his clear bigotry towards our community? (He even brought in the Mormons.)

    Oh, I forgot, Bevan is a hypocrit who does not care about gay people….

  30. Rocco says

    Tank,
    I don’t need a lecture about history, current events, or the media. Seriously.

    Are you calling me the member of a hate group? Seriously? I’m vacuous now? LOL…
    I am kind of a drama queen, but really not a martyr.Seriously. That would be St. Sebastian, one of the gay saints. Oh, I don’t wanna lecture……….. Sorry…..wow..ok….ssoooo…

    I am also not an adherent of Intelligent Design. Because I advocate tolerance of diversity (of thought, gender, political parties, religions, etc.), I am not a fundamentalist or a Nazi. I just want my civil rights. I just happen to believe that we need as much help as possible (from all kinds of supporters).

    I do not think there should be a litmus test to be a member of GLBT world.
    If you are queer and are not trying to hurt us…a la Senator Craig, then I think we oughtta play nice. I am not not less gay because I belong to the Cathoilc Church.

    Again, none of my money goes to support my local archdiocese, or to the Vatican. I can prove that, and you certainly cannot prove the contrary.

    Finally, I am not telling anyone they can’t support us because they believe x,y,or z. That would be you. There is lots of room and kindness in our community for all kinds of people…

  31. Ben says

    re: MammaB

    I’m sure you believe there were some good Nazis too. And they were Catholic.

    Why are all Catholics neurotic OCD cases? Stop trying to control everything.

  32. Samsong says

    Did this parish host gay marriages? (of course not)

    Is this parish still a part of the Catholic Church (who is attacking our civil marriages)? (of course)

    Now, I’d be happy to support this parish if they would leave the Catholic Church… After all, the Catholic faith allows for no ‘wriggle’ room.

    I do feel sorry for the participants in a church that hates you…. Too bad they can’t find a more appropriate place for your worship.

  33. Eric says

    Holding individual Catholics liable for what the Vatican says and does regardless of whether they disagree is akin to holding every American responsible for what President Bush has done solely because he represents the United States.

    If we follow the logic presented in many of these comments, by virtue of paying taxes and continuing to hold on to our citizenship, we are all anti-gay because our nation still holds unfavorable positions to homosexuality. We are all equally culpable in the Iraq fiasco.

    Seriously, people grow up. It is sad that you are completely unable to look at each individual and each individual parish and their actions.

    And Tank, Rocco is correct. The money that parishioners donate during mass goes to the upkeep of that parish.

  34. Eric says

    Samsong,

    You are playing into right wing fears by asking of a church is performing gay marriages. During the election, everyone kept stressing that there is a difference between a CIVIL marriage and a RELIGIOUS marriage. Now you are conflating the two just as the right wing did during the election.

  35. GregV says

    We don`t know who did the grafitti. It could very easily have been an anti gay zealot who wanted to kill two birds with one stone, feeding the fires of animosity against imaginary gay “villains“ and creating problems for a congregation composed mainly of gay and gay friendly opponents of Prop 8.

  36. says

    The vandalism is typical, like many of the anti christian comments here. Many gay men are so blind with rage at the church, they can’t see that liberal christians are their friends and would make powerful allies. I’ve been waiting for thirty years for the movement to stop shooting itself in the foot. This business is no surprise.

  37. TANK says

    Holding individual catholics accountable for what the vatican says (who individual catholics profess to follow) is like holding individual nazis accountable for what Hitler said about jews. However, holding individual catholics accountable for what the vatican says HAS nothing to do with holding individual catholics accountable for being catholic, and in virtue of that, supporting the vatican.

    And no, all money collected by the catholic church (any parish) doesn’t necessarily support only that parish.

  38. TANK says

    Mammawhatever, you addressed nothing I wrote, so I won’t be addressing anything you wrote.

  39. TANK says

    So, Rocco, according you, larry craig wasn’t trying to hurt us…are you aware of any of the legislation he supported? The catholic church (the hierarchical monolithic institution that IT IS) isn’t trying to hurt us…The mormon church isn’t trying to hurt us…the toxic evangelicals…they’re simply not trying to hurt us according to this frightening fantasy you’ve constructed for yourself to justify your christian faith…very sad. Any evangelical that is, say, gay friendly, is helping his antigay bretheren by defending his faith–the same faith they rely on to condemn homosexuality.

  40. says

    Yay Tank! I agree that any catholic or mormon who supports/accepts the constitutional concept of equality under the law and the separation of church and state should leave their respective church. (And the same for any other religious group or sect that butts itself into secular law.)

    I have a few very liberal catholic friends and I’m really struggling because I can’t understand how they can continue to be affiliated with the Roman church. (One of them played the bagpipes for my wedding!)

    As for the Bush argument—that’s a red herring. Most of us did not choose to be American citizens nor can we so easily skip out (though my husband and I have contemplated it). Religious allegiance to a specific church is certainly a choice. Further, the US president does not have the same kind of authority over “the people” that the Pope has over his minions.

  41. says

    And as for the graffiti, boo hoo. I believe that’s just around the corner from where some yahoos chose to throw an egg at me late one Saturday night. Where’s my city council resolution?

  42. Rocco says

    Tank,
    I think you misunderstood or misread my last post. I was trying to convey the exact opposite re: Larry Craig, et.al.

    You keep speaking in generalities, black & white terms only. The world is far more gray I think.

    You also seem to be saying there are no GLBT Christians, Hindus, Moslems, etc. There IS A LOT of overlap…maybe as many as GLBT athiests or agnostics….maybe more.

    A final point: people who belong to a a church/temple don’t necessarily believe every tenet of that faith….e.g The vast majority of hetero US Catholics use birth control and over 50% of US Catholics are pro-choice.

    Good night & good luck!

  43. SamSong says

    I’m proud that someone had the balls to call out the Catholic church for their attack on our rights. We’ve called out the carpetbagging Mormon church, and the Catholic church is just as deserving.

    This local church did a lot of good for our community during the AIDS crisis. However, the Catholic church is totally hierarchical, and the church campaigns against our basic rights all across the world. They are immoral and evil (in this regard).

  44. TANK says

    It is more nuanced than that, Rocco. But Islam isn’t more nuanced than one woman getting beaten for failing to cover up; or people being hanged for “homosexuality”. It’s not more nuanced than that. Christianity is not more nuanced than initiatives in which millions are poured into denying homosexuals their rights, and force us to have to justify our very existences. Not more gray or nuanced such that that “nuance” gives the faith a pass, or justifies it. I want to see all religions become completely harmless, because they’re not now. As soon as you remove the harm from what religious belief can be demonstrated to cause, feel free to believe whatever unjustified fiction strikes your fancy. I have no problem with janism for that very reason–they’re simply harmless. I still think it’s absurd, but nonetheless HARMLESS, even in potential. No amount of “good deeds” can make up for the harm that many religions cause.

    Of course not everyone who belongs to a religion agrees–but that agreement doesn’t matter, you see…for, again, they are members of that faith, and support it. Every moderate muslim and every gay friendly christian supports the radicals, for they affirm and defend the same faith the radicals use–name and books, and even rituals. This confers legitimacy to fundamentalists and radicals alike.

  45. Vince says

    Right on Rocco. The irrational, frothing anger of someone like Tank is best avoided- he’s someone defending Swastika graffiti, and scarily saying each and every Catholic needs to be “held to account” for the Church’s stance on gays.

    I hate graffiti. I hate swastikas. I hate swastika graffiti on a beautiful building in beautiful San Francisco. I was open to the idea that antigay people might have done it to make us look bad, but seeing such truly unhinged ranting hatred- even against one of the most progressive congregations in CA- makes me see yes, there are a lot of freakishly anger-filled people out there, blaming “the Church” for their every woe.

    The Catholic Church has asserted that gay people have inherent human dignity. Yes, they are against gay sex, BUT SO IS EVERY OTHER RELIGION. Even Buddhists! I’d like to see where the human dignity of gay people has been asserted by Southern Baptists, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and any other religious denomination. (Episcopalians are pretty cool.)

    Sorry, I cannot stand overemotional hyperbolic neurotics, who are deeply unread about the many complex issues, throwing words about Nazism and the like, as if the entire world of religion ought to center around their own sex life. Poverty, charity, war- no, it’s all about them, shrieking about a gay Holocaust. Uh, stop screaming, learn some civility, get some dignity.

  46. says

    @ VINCE: are you actually reading TANK’s posts? He’s quite rational and not overemotional. I agree with him that religion is a farce, but I also know that there are plenty of religious orders/sects that do embrace gay sexuality. Perhaps you ought to take a more rational look at religion and how it has corrupted the rational mind.

  47. TANK says

    Vince, you’re very funny. I got quite a chuckle out of your diatribe. Trust, however, that I’m laughing at you… But a correction is in order.

    I’m not angry at catholicism or christianity–they both concern me as a citizen of the world in which both play a very big role and have a negative, harmful influence that is never justified in terms of the positive things it does–those could be accomplished without it.

    I don’t think that harm should be meted out to any religious person simply for being religious, and that people have a right to believe as they do. But ya know, it’s gonna take more critical minds than god equipped you with to deal with the harm that religion is most certainly implicated.

    I usually respond to people like you, vince with “go away, adults talking.” Maybe that’s how I should responded to your thoughtless response…but you made me laugh, so I’m glad I didn’t.

  48. stevielee says

    Ms. Dufty and the rest of the Patriarchal, Higharchial, cult worshipers can hide behind the robes (skirts), rituals, rings, and all the other neo-lithic icons and jurassic clap-trap that Catholisism (and every other deity worshiping, highly conditioned belief system) uses to mask it’s true mission: to CONTROL human sex, sexuality, behavior, and to funnel the ensuing ignorance and repressed sexual energies into promoting fear, self-loathing and most importantly: to amassing as much money as possible – via guilt and threats of eternal damnation – into their all-male cult coffers – so that they can continue to propagate this anthropocentric deity nonsense and thoroughly infect the next generation with the deadly twin viruses of ignorance and fear.

    For a growing number of us awakening queer folk, the gloves are off – and it has not been (up until recently) our side who has been doing the pummeling, but I can assure you, we can and will strike back at this hateful ass-hat in Rome, and all those who follow or promote that poisonous cults anti-human, anti-intellectual agenda. And that includes all of its slimy tentacles “outpost” like MHR – no matter how “inclusive”, or tolerant” you delude yourselves into believing.

    Every time that sulfurous, sniveling cadaver holed up in the Vatican makes his hate-filled, anti GLBT pooba pronouncement – like he jusr did again a few weeks ago, attacks on GLBT rights, violent assaults and more senseless deaths of our people – explode worldwide. So to all those apologist, conformist, protectionist and other catho-holic cult enablers, it is on your heads that this horror continues.

  49. MammmaB says

    For the love of… er… God, please let Tank, master of nuanced, grown-up discussion, and the “thoughtful” response, have the last word. She’s laughing at us, not with us, bless her little heart.