News: Aretha’s Hat, New York, James Franco, Endangered Species

 roadGay bashing reported by student at DePaul University: "I fell to the ground, and the person that kicked me said, 'I know who
you are and I know that you're gay.' That person and two other people just started kicking me and
punching me and like I was pinned to the ground, so I couldn't really
go anywhere. They were calling me things like queer and fag."

Aretha road Aretha Franklin gives her hat to the Smithsonian Institution.

 roadZac Efron has a big bro crush on Leonardo DiCaprio.

 roadOpenly gay celebrities in Australia advised not to discuss it: "One celebrity talent manager, who did not wish to be named, told
news.com.au he advised clients not to discuss their sexuality, even if
everyone knew they were gay, because homophobia was still rampant
amongst the gatekeepers of the Aussie media, particularly in
television."

 roadOregon Elections Division throws out complaint against Portland Mayor Sam Adams.

 roadProsecution winds down in gay porn murder trial of Harlow Cuadra: "More than 50 witnesses have been called so far…"

 roadPhelps church targets school in Plattsburgh, Vermont for Laramie Project production.

 roadAuthor talks of growing up gay and Black in the South.

 roadLondon stabbing victim clings to life, gives authorities info: "A man came to the premises, it would appear, and, from the information
given by one of the surviving victims, it was a homophobic attack. That
is a line of inquiry that we are pursuing."

 roadBrad Pitt pays a visit to Capitol Hill.

Nyc
 roadSotheby's to auction one of earliest photos of New York City.

 roadGreek community and LGBT community to bond on U of Michigan campus.

 roadJames Franco gets book deal for collection of short stories: writing has "claustrophobic" and "immediate" sense of place.

 roadUK teen gets two years in juvie institution for murder of gay truck driver.

 roadJon Stewart unloads on CNBC.

 roadJake Gyllenhaal back in spandex.

Whale
 roadEndangered Species Act may be reversed by Obama: "The White House will announce today that it is reconsidering another controversial last-minute environmental rule by President George W. Bush, an Obama administration official said Monday night. The Bush-era rule loosened the way the Endangered Species Act guides federal projects, such as roads and dams. The change, finalized in December, eliminated a requirement that federal agencies consult with experts about potential effects on endangered plants and wildlife before allowing projects to go ahead. Instead, federal agencies can determine on their own whether their projects would harm protected species.

 roadPosh Spice thinks she's Inspectress Gadget.

 roadEvery swear word in the history of The Sopranos.

 roadMichelle Williams named guardian of Heath Ledger Oscar.

 roadUganda Minister of Ethics and Integrity, Dr. James Nsaba Buturo says he will submit a bill on homosexuality to the Parliament: "He says the provision in the penal code on homosexuality is too small to cover all concerns in homosexuality. Buturo says the government will not only end at making laws against homosexuality but will also engage in sensitizing schools and churches in the fight against this vice.The President of Defend the Family International, Scott Lively says it is good for the government of Uganda to criminalize homosexuality but the government should subject the criminals of homosexuality to a therapy rather than imprisoning them. Lively says this is aimed at the criminals recovering from homosexuality which is the main objective of those fighting homosexuality and not to punish homosexuals through imprisonment. He says even schools should borrow this idea of therapy in dealing with gay students."

Comments

  1. TANK says

    Putting the words ‘ethics’ and ‘integrity’ near Uganda is an obscenity. We know what kind of ethics they understand in Uganda. Laud the rapist, beat the wife, free the murderer, kill the fag, stone the whore. Good folks, Ugandans…thing is, they only really respond to violence or the threat of it. However, is this imrpovement in that hellhole? I guess if they’re not shipping them off to prison…but what does “therapy” mean? Don’t be surprised if it entails castration, and or murder.

  2. Daniel says

    re: the Uganda article–as much as i’ve read on this website from comments about how US citizens feel “thrown under the bus” by random things since the McCain/Obama election, and on thru until the inauguration and beyond, i haven’t heard much ire at the fact our tax dollars are going (as foreign aid)to so many African countries that are failed states, despot-ruled, or (to make it relevant to this site & its readership) anti-gay regimes.

    On a superficial level, when i see those “I am african” ads with G.Paltrow and other celebs, i think they’re rather stupid, but generally harmless. But when we hear the news of all the anti-gay behavior in Mali, Uganda, and other African countries, i feel an even bigger disconnect from the Go Red campaign, the “I am African” campaign, etc.

    I guess I can’t pick on Annie Lennox’s “Sing” campaign, but my point is that whether it’s tax-driven foreign aid or celebrity-driven, i really question support of so many vicious and sick African countries. I don’t mean sick in an HIV way, i mean sick as in ‘we criminalize homosexuality’ way!

    Enough!! If we’re called on to boycott Los Angeles restaurants where the manager has donated to support Prop 8, i think the gay community has to call out for boycotts of entire African regimes, too. I don’t want US tax money going to these assholes for foreign aid! I’m fed up with it.

  3. SFshawn says

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
    Ugandans and many african countries are SUB-HUMAN!! They never learned how to be human. If you can inflict that much pain,suffering,torture,etc. on each other and the world then you are less than human-you are a borderline animal. Fuck Uganda and it’s intolerant residents.

  4. says

    Daniel, I agree with you! I cannot believe the amount of money that we waste in Africa only to have those same creatures turn around and do actual business with the Chinese who don’t give a flip at all about human rights.

    The racism, sexism, homophobia and general corruption make me sick and ashamed that they are Black. They are horrible bunch of criminals that run those countries and I hate that my money goes anywhere near them. And we all know that for ever dollar in aid that goes over at least half of it goes in some despots Swiss bank acct.

  5. Paul R says

    Of course Aretha donated the hat. It’s not like she could ever wear it again. Can you imagine if she tried? She’d be at a party and people would be like, “Oh wow, nice hat Aretha. Is that new?” and trying to stifle their laughter.

    As for cutting off aid to foreign countries, pretty much anywhere, you cannot confuse or conflate a country’s leaders with its citizens. If you do, the citizens suffer. Yes, many African countries are run by despots and kleptocrats who are lining their own pockets with the riches from natural resources while their people starve. (And, by the way, China is buying most of those resources now that the US and other Western countries have imposed tighter restrictions on who we buy them from.) But having well-monitored development projects and promoting democracy are the only ways to change things. Otherwise things will probably get even worse. Making foreign aid effective is extraordinarily difficult, but condemning scores of countries based on the words of their leaders (most of whom did not enter office democratically) is morally wrong.

    Put a different way, what if the entire world refused to deal with us because we had Bush as president for eight years? Obviously they couldn’t have, given our economic and military sway, but I don’t want to be judged by my government officials. I’m sure many people in Africa feel much the same way. Uganda suffered enough under Idi Amin and has incredibly high HIV/AIDS rates. It doesn’t need to suffer more than it already is.

    None of that is to excuse the hateful ignorance and fear-mongering of those two homophobes. And yes, I think foreign aid should have some conditions attached to prevent human rights abuses. But we have idiots in our own country saying the same damn things.

  6. Derrick from Philly says

    As bad as conditions are in Africa, I will NEVER allow any white man to talk about the “subhuman” nature of Africans without mentioning the barbaric behavior of Europeans over the last 2,000 years.

    If any Jew who doesn’t let racism cloud his mind–I ask him, who is more sub-human? An African or a German?

    You want to combat African homophobia? Ok, that’s good. You want to call Africans “sub-human”? NO, your European ancestors have a deadlier record in history.

    SFSHAWN: you denounce African homophobia by call Africans “sub-human”–how the fuck do you think African gay people feel about being called “sub-human”……bitch?

  7. Paul R says

    Wow, nice touch—calling Africans subhuman. Why don’t you just call them primates? And while you’re at it, why don’t you excorciate Asians (massive human purges in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Japan, China, etc.), Latin Americans (the same in Argentina, Chile, and elsewhere), Australians (treatment of the aborigines), Americans (treatment of blacks and native Americans), Europeans (Germany, the former Yugoslavia, Russia), the Middle East…need I go on?

    The capacity to treat other people like crap and murder them in large numbers isn’t limited by geography, nor is the desire to achieve political and economic power at any cost.

  8. D.R.H. says

    I think that the trend of American Evangelical institutions involving themselves in the policy making of developing countries is a very alarming trend. This needs to be brought to the world’s attention. I’m sure there are many countries out there that would find this kind of involvement disgusting, to say the least, and would shame these organizations back into their own churches, where they belong.

  9. Paul R says

    And if you think for a second that the average [enter citizen of most any non-Western European country or U.S. state here] is gay-friendly, you should be forced to live with them. Oh wait, we are.

    The difference is that most of us aren’t raised in grinding poverty, lacking education, basic health care, clean water, and sanitation, and subject to the whims of cruel leaders. Oh, and we have democratic elections (usually). Plenty of people, even in very well-off countries, are still antigay. Surveys consistently show that better-educated people are more gay-friendly. So I’m not going to blame a faceless, uneducated Ugandan for their ignorance of gay rights. Outside urban areas, the concept of being gay hardly exists in countless countries, since the concept of basic human rights is also not widely recognized.

  10. TANK says

    Don’t apologize for their unethical beliefs and behavior by drawing a comparison between homophobia in Wyoming and Uganda, paul. There is no defense, and no economic explanation for it, either. It situates you firmly in irrelevance with the rest of the multicult relativists who feel it their civic obligation to open a vein each time the topic of homophobia in Africa (or in Islamic nations) is brought up and bloviate about how tewwible it is elsewhere–bringing up the nonsequitur that homophobia is not just a problem in africa or for muslims, and drawing emphasis away from the topic under discussion. There’s no excuse, and they do far more than just hold up signs and lobby against marriage equality. You should check it out, though. Maybe you could reason with a large group of them that want you hanged and burned.

    Slowing the spread of hiv and other diseases in the region is a somewhat separate topic. Leveraging western financial aid to get their governments to comply with the recognition of basic human dignity is a test of our own values, but short of any real solution to the decision of many of these nations to throw bread at the hordes in the form of virulently antigay policies, there’s no way to get them to change. It’s not about education…that kind of dangerous and actually patronizing (and often racist) line of thinking needs to go. The world’s full of highly educated evil, bigoted people. It must be punitive, though.

  11. Paul R says

    Actually, Tank, I noted that plenty of people in rich countries are antigay, so I didn’t say that education was a universal panacea. And I wasn’t apologizing for anyone’s beliefs—what I said was that the average deperately poor rural person in most countries doesn’t even hold such beliefs, only their corrupt government mouthpieces. Moreover, I’ve been to numerous African and Muslim countries, and was openly gay. I do a lot of work for a foreign government (Muslim and Middle Eastern) whose official line is antigay, but the guy I deal with most there is gay and his colleagues know it. Which goes back to my point about caring for people, not governments. Finally, homophobes here also do more than hold up signs…rarely a day passes that Andy doesn’t post about a gay bashing or murder in the US or UK.

    But actually my real point is that it pisses me off when Americans get up in arms about our supposedly generous foreign aid. Each year the total aid we give to all countries is equal to what we spend in four months in just one country (Iraq) or what we just gave to AIG in its third bailout (with a fourth just announced the other day), and accounts for less than 1 percent of federal spending. It comes out to 25 cents a YEAR for each American. Less than a stamp, much less a soda.

    As a share of GNP, it’s ranged from the lowest to second lowest among the top 20 or so wealthiest countries for many years. I hardly call that opening a vein. Not to mention, it’s been proven that U.S. aid benefits American companies and our image abroad. It’s in our self-interest to not have desperately poor countries get even worse, for obvious economic reasons. If we do, it costs us a lot more in the long run. I’ll leave the morality of it to you.

  12. TANK says

    “Actually, Tank, I noted that plenty of people in rich countries are antigay, so I didn’t say that education was a universal panacea.”

    No, you didn’t, but you’ll pardon my confusion with such relevant comments like:

    “Surveys consistently show that better-educated people are more gay-friendly. So I’m not going to blame a faceless, uneducated Ugandan for their ignorance of gay rights.”

    Delightfully seeming to chalk it up to ignorance…for no, you’ll not blame a faceless ignorant uneducated Ugandan, but will an educated Kansan! Now what was the point of that again?

    “And I wasn’t apologizing for anyone’s beliefs—what I said was that the average deperately poor rural person in most countries doesn’t even hold such beliefs, only their corrupt government mouthpieces.”

    I call this the beautiful people myth. It’s truly the anthropologist’s holy grail…the will o’ the wisp. These people are without prejudice and live harmoniously in egalitarian societies in which everyone looks great and feels good and does the right thing because hey, they’re beautiful people. And then come corrupt governments and western imperialist influence and awful horrors! And these beautiful people are corrupted and transformed into the ugly people (white men who do white man things like rape and murder, abuse natural resources and hunt things into extinction like the great mammoths….start wars, poollute the environment, spread disease, and enslave people…DAMN WHITE MEN! If it weren’t for white men, we’d just have the beautiful people!)… But alas, no, the beautiful people of uganda are without prejudice toward gays or people who engage in same sex sex…it’s those awful corrupted leaders who aren’t using gays as a political tool to distract the people they literally rule over from the real issues of corruption…it’s not about demonizing gays taking advantage of rampant preexisting prejudice to say “look over there, idiots!” as they continue to fuck up….no, not it at all.

  13. TANK says

    “But actually my real point is that it pisses me off when Americans get up in arms
    about our supposedly generous foreign aid.”

    Agreed. For a country as wealthy as the u.s. to not give considerably more is unethical. The difference between what we’re capable of giving without impacting other spending priorities and what we do is accounted for in the loss of human life each year.

    “Each year the total aid we give to all countries is equal to what we spend in four months in just one country (Iraq) or what we just gave to AIG in its third bailout (with a fourth just announced the other day), and accounts for less than 1 percent of federal spending. It comes out to 25 cents a YEAR for each American. Less than a stamp, much less a soda.”

    It’s less than $40 billion, or a little under 1.5% of the federal budget. Oh, no one’s disputing that the amount we give to alleviate suffering worldwide is despicably low, and should be much higher.

    “As a share of GNP, it’s ranged from the lowest to second lowest among the top 20 or so wealthiest countries for many years. I hardly call that opening a vein.”

    You don’t have to sell me, but opening a vein concerned a different point…namely, what does all of that have to do with using foreign aid to push for human rights? That as a stipulation of receiving funds, governments need to stop endorsing and perpetuating human rights violations? If we increased the amount (most people in the states think we give way, way more than we do), and thus the stakes, would that be so terrible to influence the policy of foreign governments in “third world” countries toward more progressive laws and regulations that can only diminish their share in human misery?

    “Not to mention, it’s been proven that U.S. aid benefits American companies and our image abroad. It’s in our self-interest to not have desperately poor countries get even worse, for obvious economic reasons. If we do, it costs us a lot more in the long run. I’ll leave the morality of it to you.”

    This just changes the subject again. No one’s debating this…it’s irrelevant! If those bastards at the IMF can steal the futures from entire countries by making huge OPEC loans to them (hey, countries aren’t going anywhere like companies do) and demanding that they privatize most of their economies with disasterous results (e.g., Chile)…I think we can start doing some good with a few demands instead of evil. Like demanding that the Ugandan government stop persecuting people in the lgbt community.

  14. Paul R says

    Timeline for Uganda: long before Iran’s president did, the president of Uganda said there were no gays in the country. In 2007 a number of Ugandans came out or were outed. In the past week several U.S. evangelical organizations visited the country to host a conference and advance the government’s deranged views. So that would seem to be a form of neo-colonialism, based on a Bible that Africans certainly weren’t familiar with 200 years ago. And yes, I would much sooner blame an educated American than an uneducated African for being antigay. Nothing I said is inconsistent with that.

    Anyway, this discussion has deviated from its original point, and I can hardly understand the second half of your second paragraph. It’s impossible to tell whether you realize how rampant corruption is in Africa, how much power governments have, and how little most citizens are involved (whether by choice or force) in politics. And Uganda just happens to be the country mentioned here; my broader point is about foreign aid around the world and the fact that, however imperfect, it’s not something you can just turn off because you find something wrong with a country. If you’d like to continue this discussion, we should do so offline, because I’m betting that everyone else is damn tired of us.

  15. TANK says

    “Timeline for Uganda: long before Iran’s president did, the president of Uganda said there were no gays in the country. In 2007 a number of Ugandans came out or were outed. In the past week several U.S. evangelical organizations visited the country to host a conference and advance the government’s deranged views. So that would seem to be a form of neo-colonialism,”

    Only if you think that antigay stigmas didn’t exist prior to colonialism, and they certainly did as sure as bantu speaking angricultural clans treated women as property and eforced gender roles. Further, to blame neo colonalism NOW is the same patronizing view that they’re too stupid to know right from wrong. This kind of propaganda is about manufacturing a docile agreeable people, and if you can’t see it for what it is (hijacking preexisting homophobia), then you’re hopeless.

    “based on a Bible that Africans certainly weren’t familiar with 200 years ago.”

    The beautiful myth lives in naive folks who don’t care about empirical data chronicling the kingdoms of the region in which injustices like slavery, women as property, and the condemnation of same sex sexual activity wasn’t unheard of.

    “And yes, I would much sooner blame an educated American than an uneducated African for being antigay. Nothing I said is inconsistent with that.”

    I know, but you simple have no principled or relevant reason to make such an irrational valuation. It’s embarrassingly simple minded and harmful, and thus, it’s unethical.

    “Anyway, this discussion has deviated from its original point,”

    No, I simply refused to allow you to hijack the point and turn it into something it’s not. Your opportunity to sing about the evils of the west and racism…no no, we won’t be giving you a stage to dance on.

  16. says

    I covered MAGIC here in Vegas and the only booth that was packed all day long was the one that sold hats like ‘Rethas and the clothes that went with them! I was shocked but being black, I “got it”. No Black church lady worth her while would step out on Sunday without being turned the “F” out! Sunday church for Black Ladies is like Ascot if it helps folks understand why that hat was such a hit.

  17. Geronimo says

    Franco is also very sweet and very gay friendly, and collaborates on works with less-known gay painters and filmmakers. The perfect straight celeb, with a smile that smashes my heart!

  18. nic says

    @TANK and PAUL R,

    wow! this type of discourse is the reason i keep coming back to TOWLEROAD. i am of two minds. i agree with both of you. you guys are not that far apart, if one can say that differing world views are not incompatible…. i will not go that far.

    TANK, what you call the “beautiful people” myth was propagated by, but not original to, jean-jacque rousseau. the false construct of the noble savage has an endearing and long-lasting, but deleterious effect on western thinking. from crusoe’s ‘friday’ to shelly’s frankenstein monster, to the lone ranger’s ‘tonto’, western literature is replete with condescension and, yes, racism. it is the ‘romantic’ view that still permeates our culture. and i say ‘our culture’ in an inclusive way, for black, brown, white, whatever, we are all drawn back kicking and screaming to its inexorable grasp. it informs us as americans. it is the old concept of the british “white man’s burden”. after all, we cannot let other cultures go untouched by our civility.

    but here is where i agree will you, PAUL R (PAUL C is a shit-for-brains). the evangelicals think that it is their birth right, no, their directive from god, to educate, to bring the “word” to the illiterate. nevermind that the “word” is fraught with the stench and diseases of the uninvited guests. the natives response might be, “we’re doing well enough, thank you.” but, that is NOT enough. the x’tianists will force their will upon them, an intellectual rape, as it were.

    still and all, i appreciated youse guys’ discussion.

  19. Paul R says

    Derrick and Nic, thanks.

    Tank, 95 percent of my comments were related to US foreign aid, poverty in developing countries, and the need to avoid thinking that governments always speak for their people, much less have their people’s best interests in mind. Where exactly did I bash the West? Was it when I referred to Uganda’s government as deranged, or to African governments as widely corrupt? You also vascillate between calling me racist (for supposedly espousing the beautiful people myth) and crying at what racism has wrought. You’re obviously eager to show off your intelligence, but it’s not worth debating things with you when you resort to condescension and name calling (according to you, I’m hopeless, harmful, unethical, unprincipled, simple-minded, hyper PC, naive, irrelevant, etc.). It sounds like you’ve read too much Ayn Rand, but whatever the cause, it’s not an impressive form of debate. It’s just shrill.

    And yes, people in early posts did say we give too much foreign aid to undeserving countries. Someone also said “Fuck Uganda and it’s [sic] intolerant residents.” Finally, in my very first post I said, “I think foreign aid should have some conditions attached to prevent human rights abuses.” In any case, I’m done arguing.

  20. TANK says

    “95 percent of my comments were related to US foreign aid, poverty in developing countries, and the need to avoid thinking that governments always speak for their people, much less have their people’s best interests in mind.”

    And while I don’t dispute that the Ugandan government does not have the ugandan people’s best interest in mind (derailment that has nothing to do with homophobia in either the government or the citizenry), I dispute your bald assertion that ugandans aren’t extremely homophobic, and that homophobia is not a part of contemporary ungandan culture.

    Your comments addressing mine had nothing to do with them… Except that they did. You were, in fact, perpetuating the beautiful people myth with your claim that it was western imperialism which resulted in homophobia in uganda (which I dispute, as it was far from an egalitarian paradise before)–though perhaps it intensified it and gave it a name. Your claim that the average ugandan isn’t homophobic, and that that isn’t being used by the ugandan government to create an scapegoat and distract people with, and lastly, your claim that an ignorant Ugandan’s homophobia should be given a pass because, well, they’re poor and ignorant–I dispute all of these as well. Education has nothing to do with baseless prejudice. You’re not going to TEACH anyone that homophobia is wrong…you can say it all you’d like. Engineers don’t learn such things in their classrooms, and mathematicians don’t learn it, either, in math class. I can only imagine that your attempt to cloud the issue here, and obscure what is for all to see is a retreat from these unargued for assertions of yours.

    And lastly, I think you’re reading into my motive to respond to your derailment more than you have evidence for, paul. And ayn rand? Wow…you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?

  21. says

    Not to be a nitpicker, Andy, but Plattsburgh is in NY not VT. It’s just across the lake from Burlington. I’m sure Phelps was as welcome there as he would be in VT.

  22. Geronimo says

    TANK, nearly every post you make, on this topic and every other, is steeped in bitterness and vitriol. Even when you might have a point to make, it’s so unpleasant to read that most people are going to pass on it. You’re a contrarian to the core, and seem to take great pleasure in hurling insults. What’s the point?

    For your sake, I hope that your offline persona is different.

    As for your argument about education, I went to a public high school 25 years ago in Virginia (not exactly a bastion of liberalism) and had history, government, and sociology teachers explain why homophobia was wrong. It changed the minds of a lot of students. Even egineers and mathemeticians have to take other courses. Education can be, you know, educational.

  23. TANK says

    That anecdote is so relevant! I had friend, once…tell me that of all of the thousands of men she’d encountered in texas, not a single one smoked. She concluded, then, that men in texas don’t smoke because she never saw one do it.

    You’ve opened my eyes, G! I suppose equipped with this revelation, we should be able to sit down with tony perkins and convince him that he’s wrong about the gays. Good luck with that tactic.

  24. nic says

    gawd, TANK, you can be insufferable at times. this is one of those times.
    GERONIMO’s anecdote is, indeed, relevant. since your argument is based on empiricism, what, then, is better than anecdotal evidence? at bottom, is not your argument based on the experiential? it is easy to dismiss questions with smoke and mirrors.

    i am on the brink of a precipice. perhaps you can help me out, muchacho. suppose for a moment that we posit this question: can god create a rock so heavy that even he can’t lift it? this is the ‘omnipotence paradox’. so, where do we go from there? it is like Rene Descartes saying, “i think, therefore, i am” (cojito ergo sum). but, he is begging the question in that he presupposes his existence, because one cannot be a thinking being unless he already exists. and so it goes…. if better minds than ours cannot help us unboggle our brains, then what hope do pedestrians like us have? help me out, guys!

    how can the universe exist when, according to Catholic dogma, god is, has been, and will forever be? is there never a beginning of time? is there never an end of time? perhaps this is why Schopenhauer made a leap TO faith, not a leap OF faith (as has often and erroneously been repeated). he abandoned logic in favor of an easy way out; poor wretch that he was. i guess he figured that his trek would only lead to insanity. it may be that it is better at times to hand your life’s baggage to a higher authority, saying, in essence, “i can’t handle my problems, you take over for now.” but isn’t that the last refuge of a craven? where is that higher power? god as we know him is a brute, a vain doomster, a bully who will as easily step on an ant as cast a care in our direction.

    is the answer as simple as: we crave human kindness. we crave the smell and touch of another human. should we say, “ah, love, let us be true to each other.” there is an absurdity to the universe that i never had the chance to unsubscribe to. this is what i know and will ever know: nothing is more soothing than a touch of a friend, a mother, a boy friend or girl friend. please, please, let us be true to each other.

    and, TANK, don’t be an asshole.

  25. TANK says

    Hey, you’re totally blowing my mind, and challenging my preconceptions about everything! “Is the glass half empty, or is she half full?” It’s like my mind is being ripped asunder with the paradoxes you’re dispensing like pez for the purpose of… As a unrelated suggestion, you should read Descartes. He’s a lot smarter than you know, than most people realize.

    The point was that a foggy memory from twenty five years ago detailing the experience of ONE person in HS just doesn’t provide reliable information about whether or not education is an effective means of combatting homophobia–but, specifically, changing people’s homophobic attitudes/ beliefs. Anecdotes are useless in gauging facts about populations of people, or, as pop EP folks like to do, facts about human psychology. You could spend the rest of your life wandering around a country to gauge the opinions of its people on this or that, and it would be worthless compared to a single survey. It’s just a statistical fact. The reason why education about these things is more effective (though, it seems, not completely effective as parents and friends have a large role to play in shaping a subject’s prejudices) with younger people is because they haven’t made up their mind one way or the other; they don’t really have homophobic beliefs yet, or those beliefs aren’t a linchpin of their conceptual framework.

    Bigotry itself is not about education, though. It’s perfectly consistent to hold bigoted beliefs, though they are irrational (not based on fact and evidence). And given that it’s irrational, it doesn’t seem like rationality is something that can extirpate it.

    I hope this clarification is clarifying. If not, who cares?

  26. nic says

    no, TANK, it isn’t. and apparently you care. weren’t you the one who was adamant about not changing the subject? a well remembered experience is just as valid as the short term experience. haven’t studies shown that long term memory is more reliable than short term?

    but more to the point, mi chulo, you can’t set the ground rules and then change them on a whim. in that regard, GERONIMO was well within that framework.

    all props to descarte, but it was aldous huxley who forced that question to its crisis. was he right or not? i think so. what do you think, my friend.

    i am a “glass is half full” kind of guy. hope must always spring. anyhoo, i am done pondering the imponderables. perhaps this is why the gods gave us a sex drive — a diversion of sorts. i just got back from watching the finals of a pro circuit tour.

    jeebus, the winner was hawwwwt! given half a chance, i would have given him a tongue bath, gratis.

    TANK, have a good sunday evening, my friend. you are worth my while. just like derrick, jimmyboyo, zeke, 24play, rudy and various and sundry others who darken the threshold of andy’s blog. i’m yos keeding, peepulz.

  27. TANK says

    Take your meds. You don’t understand anything I wrote, and you aren’t making any sense…

    LOL! I literally would not be able to have a conversation with you ever, as we aren’t on the same planet. But the attempt is amusing.

  28. nic says

    TANK,

    are you speaking to me!?

    i understand everything that you wrote, i just don’t understand anything that you said. talk about not making sense…. i loathe unoriginal language and thoughts. too bad that you are so guilty of both. but see how you are? i will spank you until all your cheeks turn red and you cum on my leg. but after that, you are on your own. i will toss you away like an old cum cloth.

    and, LOL? really? what are you, a 13 y/o girl? i live on the planet Earth, what planet do you live on? alas, you are not worth my while; and here i thought we could be friends. i misread you like you misread your comic books. a dios, idiota.

    nothing is more obtuse and nausea-producing than a scatter-brained, scatter-shot approach to logic. your dismissive attitude only aggravates the sitch. but, you go, girl. somewhere there is inside of you something that wants to come out of the dark. push, girl, push!

    LOL!

  29. Dadaist says

    NIC, it wouldn’t matter if we all bowed down and said to TANK, “Wow. You are completely right and we are wrong.”

    His response would be, “No, I am completely correct and you are incorrect.” Most of his points are wordplay and semantics, and if that makes him feel better on a Friday or Saturday night, then so be it. It’s not so surprising that he has few better ways to spend his time. Who would want to hang out with such a boor?

    And again, he contradicts himself, saying “The reason why education about these things is more effective…with younger people is because they haven’t made up their mind one way or the other.” So in terms of consistency about his arguement, well…it just isn’t there. GERONIMO made the very same point that high-school kids were influenced by education, TANK derided that, then he defended it. So much, again, for his intellectual consistency.

    Go ahead, TANK, fire off another bitter missive.

  30. Frank Ranieri says

    I hope David Smith is gang raped & murdered in juvie & Judge Brian Barker deserves a hit & run. Please God, prove you exist & make this happen

  31. TANK says

    LOL! I think you’ve got serious cognitive problems, both psychiatric and developmental, nic. No, you didn’t understand what I wrote, and it’s hilarious to watch you continue flopping around like a fish out of water, shooting yourself in the foot with one non sequitur train wreck of stream of consciousness after another. Scatter shot approach to logic? ROTFL! You’re crackers, and couldn’t follow a coherent train of thought if you were chained to the tracks.
    Alright, dadaist, Ima give you a third grader’s lesson in consistency, because you don’t have it down yet. Semantic games? How many chromosomes do you have, boy?! To repeat myself, they’re not changing minds in HS anymore than they’ve made their minds up (which in many cases, they haven’t). You can’t change a mind that hasn’t made a commitment one way or the other, can you? From what?
    No education changes a bigot’s mind, because there’s nothing to learn–you either accept that it’s wrong for the reasons given, or you don’t. If it were as simple as referencing a fact of the matter like the temperature at which water freezes, then disagreement wouldn’t be possible… But apparently it is, ya know, because there are bigots… Rather, they’re told it’s wrong for whatever reasons, and they accept that or not, but they’re not TAUGHT anything because there’s NOTHING TO TEACH, get it? Them “changing” their minds has nothing to do with them understanding the truth of a fact they previously didn’t get; or the meaning of a term they didn’t understand. It’s the expressed belief that it’s wrong that’s communicated. With kids, though, it’s not that they didn’t know something beforehand, and are learning it–they hadn’t made up their mind one way or the other, so EDUCATION is providing them with a proposition to believe or not–not changing their minds, which is what I was responding to when I claimed that education doesn’t change minds.
    I find you lessers tedious, and this is the last I’ll get my hands dirty clubbing you with logic.

  32. nic says

    i never know which TANK will show up. the smart one, the befuddled one, the plagiarist/cut and paste guy, the crazy one…. for those who are familiar with the “tessica” plot line on OLTL, maybe we should call him TANK/TANKTASTIC. TANK when he is lucid, TANKTASTIC when his brain chemicals are askew and he feels expansive.

    multipersonality disorder is not fun, multiculturalism is. a tank is at once slow and destructive. left alone, it is a simmering bellicosity.

    i will leave you alone. i, too, will do a pontius pilate on you.

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