Anderson Cooper vs. Sarah Palin’s Spokesperson: Full-Court Press

Anderson Cooper makes mincemeat of Sarah Palin's hapless spokesperson Meg Stapleton, who was in New York, not Alaska, at the time of Palin's sudden resignation. If he knew anything about basketball, the exchange might have been even worse for her.

Speaking of spokespeople, Palin's press secretary David Murrow posted this on his Facebook page a day before she quit: "There's gonna be some fireworks this weekend!"
Yes, but looks like this firecracker turned out to be a dud.

Comments

  1. stansfield4602 says

    Anderson was THROUGH with Stapleton’s bullshit, this interview was hilarious and just watching the faces AC pulled listening to her crap made it even better. Stapleton has acquired a bad case of Sarah-speak ~ she was basically babbling nonsense and AC rightly called her on it.

  2. Jeff Atwood says

    Anderson Cooper is good about confronting females (remember his interview with Mary Landrieu during Katrina?), but why doesn’t he have these confrontations with men and bring them down too?

  3. says

    Because no man he’s dealt with to date has presented anything near the opportunity offered by this dunderhead. She’s perfect as a Palin spokesperson — every bit as incoherent.

    I was especially glad Anderson said he knew nothing abotu basketball. The pimping of sports for the “common touch” is de rigeur for grifters like Palin.

    An I trust everyone recalls how very early on Jon Stuart described the Palins as a pair of grifter.

  4. JeffNYC says

    So were the initial reports of an FBI investigation of her “financial improprieties and misuse of federal funds” true or just wishful thinking?

  5. Drake says

    REMAINING QUESTION: Whatever happened to all her husband’s SILK BOXERS from Neiman Marcus, bought with campaign funds??? Donated to the homeless? Sold on e-bay? Worn at a wet boxers contest at Ramrod’s?

  6. Jack L. Crain says

    Clearly there has to be some meat on the bones of the ethics charges. Is she resigning to avoid being impeached? Will she become the televised Rush Limbaugh and new voice of the Republican Party? I suspect that the answer to both questions is, “yes.”

  7. Mark says

    If Palin wants to run for Senate or President NOW is the time to step down as governor. She (and her “handlers”) know that as long as she remains governor of Alaska she will continue to be seen as John McCain’s running mate and national joke.

    She wants a break from the harsh (factual) scrutiny of damaging publicity (she and her family are a month of Jerry Springer) so she can re-make her image.

    Why has the media NOT mentioned this??? Michael Jackson, Paris Hilton, all the freaks go away and come back as “new” people hoping we have forgotten how fucked up they are.

    TRUST ME. We have not seen the last of this cunt ass bitch.

  8. Mark says

    If it’s true AC does not confront men as he does women it is only for one reason. He’s scared of them and wants to be them: Stockholm Syndrome.

    Like a true “Urban Gay Male” he fetishes authentic unremarkable masculinity, which does not exist in Official Gay Culture. OGC uses gender as pretense: all masculinity in Official Gay Culture is calculated affectation exerted NOT in an attempt to be natural but in an attempt to negate Gayness (which is reflexively assumed by dumb-ass Gays to be feminine). Masculinity is Official Gay Culture is a minstrel show: strained, labored performance art. All the energy spent desperately pretending to be manly ironically suppresses natural masculinity, which Gay men don’t understand ALL men already have. STOP ACTING.

    Like all Gay men he aspires to a level of unselfconscious masculinity that only straight men (due to societal privilege) can attain. He’s afraid to alienate straight men and is subconsciously obsessed with being one of the guys while ironically telling himself he can’t be.

    You can’t deny every “Urban Gay Male” is fucked up like this.

  9. jimmyboyo says

    Mark

    The funny thing about the “harsh” media scrutiny is that it hasn’t been harsh.

    I was not a Hillary supporter in the primaries, BUT Hillary knows harsh media scrutiny.

    Decades worth. The funny thing is that palin once said Hillary isn’t tough. LOL

    -Blamed for killing Vince Foster
    -Lesbian
    -Her and Bill oversaw mexican drug cartels shipping in sh@t via arkansas airport
    -Communist
    -bitch
    etc
    etc

    Palin has suffered NOTHING compared to the decades of the shitstorms thrown at Hillary and Hillary has come out the other end stronger than ever. Great Sec of State!

    Palin is weak weak weak and Hillary’s hair dresser is tougher than Palin

  10. Christian Young says

    That interview reminded me of when Couric interviewed Palin about what newspapers/magazines she reads (Answer: “All sorts of newspapers!”). Go Anderson!

  11. Mark says

    Jimmyboyo

    Agreed. Palin has not gotten (nor could she handle) Clinton-level scrutiny. Palin knows her fuckupedness and resultant media coverage contradict Republican values: white supremacist secessionist, daughter as baby-momma, Eli’s mother sells drugs, etc. She knows it is bad for her bank account, that she’ll get nowhere in Repuglican hierarchy if she keeps getting this coverage.

    In a world where Lard Ass Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly are said to be influential Repuglicans Palin knows she needs to screw Alaska and move on while she’s hot in order to stay relevant. In her world TV, radio, Congress are all venues for her to vomit her mediocrity. Alaska is small time.

    Her press rep Stapleton was probably in New York during this interview at Palin’s request setting up an office and looking for apartments. Cooper could have asked that question but guess he forgot.

  12. Chip says

    Honestly, I think Anderson’s confusion over Palin’s explanation was disingenuous. And as much as I dislike Palin, I think the basketball metaphor has merit.

    If her celebrity and the media’s increased scrutiny were slowing her agenda as Alaska’s governor (which sounds reasonable to me), passing leadership to her lieutenant governor would be beneficial to her overall agenda (and therefore, in her eyes, all of Alaska).

    I think her resigning could certainly be described as good leadership. The questions Anderson should be asking are:
    -Is this kind of move something that would be acceptable at the federeral level, were she to be VP or POTUS?
    -How does this new drama benefit Palin, and was that a consideration of hers as well?

    Not acknowledging the face-value legitimacy of Palin’s explanation strikes me as either bad reporting, or obtuseness.

  13. says

    So Stapleton says that “the world is literally her [Palin’s] oyster.” Really, Meg, literally? I guess we should be prepared to slide down Sarah’s throat with a dash of lemon.

    I’ll leave the questionable analysis of Anderson’s masculinity to Mark (he wears his Stockholm Syndrome well to my eyes), but I thought he charmingly and effortlessly showed Sarah’s spokesperson to be as nonsensical as her boss. Palin may well have a future in scandal and/or TV (if Tina can parody her, surely Sarah can parody herself), but I wish the media would stop the charade: she is not going to be President, ever.

  14. Raven says

    In the two and a half years as Governor (thats right, 2.5 years and she was “qualified” to be 2nd in command) she has caused more scandal and controversy than anyone should even hope for in a 4 years term. And now she is quitting to prove she isn’t a quitter. Good riddance. Maybe her replacement can actually do the job she was accepted and maintain the public trust of Alaska.

  15. Luigi says

    @ Mark

    Your logic about “urban gay men” is so full of crap I actually had to laugh a bit.

    Why is it always the little cunt shitbag queens who always spew their hate about masculine men.If you think you’ll get a husband that way You are SADLY mistaken.

    Bitches like you are the reason why being gay can be hard.Its like if you aint some big fat flamoid wearing cover girl make-up your not gay enough.

    Why dont you go fuck yourself.

  16. nic says

    i don’t know which is more absurd, MARK’s psycho-babble about “the coop” or his puerile conclusions about sarah’s political acumen. but, if we are going to play arm-chair psychology, i’ll give it a go. it seems to me that MARK is ‘projecting’ his own bias. either that, or he simply just chose an article to plagiarize in a very ineffectual and self-betraying attempt to subsume AC under the grand rubric, ‘OCG’ — as if such a thing existed. i find it hard to believe that cooper would freely admit to knowing nothing about sports while trying to “negate gayness.”

    i do not presume to know what makes AC tick anymore than i know what makes palin tic, yes, tic. perhaps, we should let their words and actions speak for them. sarah is as ditzy as they come, with meg simpleton a close second. MARK is not far behind.

  17. D says

    Palin’s stepping down in order to distance herself from all the fires SHE’s started.

    She hopes that if she’s out of the media spotlight for a year or two, then all of the LCD America will forget about her past so she can re-emerge anew. Face it people, she’s going to run for the office of President. She got a taste of that spotlight back in 08, and she liked it. She’s not going to let go of that opportunity so easily.

    The problem with Palin is that she doesn’t serve the people. She serves her own interests, and she’s not above starting a fire, and then shifting the blame, and then stepping in for the rescue, if it puts her in a “savior” kind of light.

    Palin is crazy, duplicitous, manipulative, and dangerous. NEVER forget that people.

  18. mike says

    What are you guys talking about? Anderson has confronted males. It just happens that his most famous confrontation was with a woman during Katrina.

    What about that time he handled the male mayor who told him the KKK did good work and mostly hassled white people?

    He also was the only journalists I saw give Jeff Gannon a hard time, and he ripped him to shit.

    He was forceful with Jerry Falwell (which generated the famous pronoun controversy over whether he outed himself when he was heated up).

    He had this exchange with a male representative of the Church of Scientology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9IKWuaFjus

    He totally raked Mitt Romney over the coals at the Republican youtube debate about his changed stance on DADT.

    That’s just a few examples.

    It’s always kind of unexpected when he decides to give someone a beating, but he hasn’t done it with women more than men.

  19. Dave says

    @ Mark

    First, you obviously don’t understand what “Stockholm Syndrome” is and you aren’t referring to it correctly. Read up before you start throwing out the pop-psych gasbagging. Furthermore, your tired, self-serving bullsh*t about “OCG” and “masculinity” (and how you somehow have every single “urban gay male” completely figured out, right) almost parallels the boneheaded ramblings of the incoherent, cliche-spouting Palin and her posse of spokesdroids. Bravo.

  20. Philip Wester says

    It that Palin impersonating someone else? Otherwise, Palin has clearly taught her spokewoman well in the art of the non-answer. Most questions were answered with answers that didn’t really clear anything up.

    Also, those non-answers were immediately followed by empty talking-points. It’s like the Katie Couric interview and the Vice Presidential debate all over again!

  21. darkmoonman says

    That’s right, Palin: take your little red wagon and run home whenever the going gets tough and your little secrets start being exposed.

  22. TheNiebur says

    Mark. YOU are so fucked up, it’s beyond funny. Perhaps a day spent without a dong up your ass, and only 1 inch on your shoes, would do you some good? Kinda doubt it though…

  23. rayy says

    Actually, she’s picking up the ball and going home!

    Drake–you had to mention Todd & “silk boxers” together! Now I’m going to need some private time to go work that image out of my head!

  24. GRivera says

    “Everything under the sun…” – Like raising a child who is pregnant out of weblock and an insecure personality?

    SARAH PALIN IS A LOST SOUL! THIS SPOKESPERONS IS A JOKE!

    “The world is her oyster…”

    What kind of bullcrap is this!!???

    Bye, bye you useless piece of trash.

  25. Mark says

    re: Luigi & Nic

    My logic is “so full of crap”? Here’s the cliff notes version of what I wrote: “straight acting” Gay men are faking it. Stop “acting” and just be normal type masculine. That means be fit and healthy but stop obsessing about the perfect body (like a woman). Wear normal clothes that fit you, not t-shirts two sizes too small (like a woman).

    “…the little cunt shitbag queens who always spew their hate about masculine men”? Now who is projecting? I am neither 1) “fat” nor 2) a “flamoid” (not that there’s anything wrong with either). Funny how you Urban Gay Males are so remarkably vicious and hostile. The fact that you libel those you hate as fat and fem is exactly what betrays your incredible insecurity and anxiety about masculinity. It shouldn’t matter that I’m actually a college educated professional and bodybuilder living in the suburbs of a major city but to Gays like you I’m sure it does. Stop projecting your insecurity onto me. I’d rather be friends with a fat and/or fem dude who was actually nice than freaks like you.

    “If you think you’ll get a husband that way You are SADLY mistaken.” Dude it’s guys like you that make being single a pleasure. Seriously you Urban Gays are so fucked up with insecurity, self-loathing and repressed rage 1) you don’t even know how messed up you are, and 2) you cannibalize and savage each other. That kind of arch faggotry and hostility is so normalized and deeply saturated within Official Gay Culture that most Gays don’t even see how fucked up it is. You all flee to big cities cuz you can’t hack real life in real places, then you stay locked in adolescent states of arrested development, repressing your rage against hetero-bigots and projecting it onto each other. WTF?! High school is over; move on.

    Why is it when you tell faggots their precious Official Gay Culture is bullshit they go nuts? Kind of like Scientologists? Oh, that’s right. Both are cults. Ok guys, go back to reading Out Magazine, sipping appletinis, wearing t-shirts two sizes too small, listening to Lady Gaga, watching America’s Next Top Model. Far be it from me to knock that paper cup of Kool Aid out of your hands.

    Stop embarrassing yourselves.

  26. says

    Wait wait wait wait.

    First a rant about “every urban gay male” being fucked up and trying to mimic straight masculinity, and now we come to find out the ranter is a) living in (or near) a major city and b) a bodybuilder? and then he goes on to criticize OTHERS who (in their case only) because of their insecurity “cannibalize and savage each other,” which hostility is deeply saturated within urban gay culture!

    Honey, take a look in the mirror!

    — a professional educated gay male who lives in a town of 8000 in the mountains of Vermont and hasn’t been to the gym in months (and has the body to prove it), who didn’t get the body-image gene or the bitchy queen gene, but who knows one when he sees one.

  27. 2nd Class Citizen Class says

    Palin is Cheney Junior. Palin will now focus on spreading lies and paranoia. Our community will once again become a political wedge issue. No one will do anything for us(marraiage, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, Hate Crimes, etc.)

  28. SG says

    I agree with Chip: his confusion over Palin’s explanation was disingenuous and the basketball metaphor has merit (though one could argue that what she did is more akin to a point guard passing the ball and then running off the court before the game ended). I’m surprised people think his response was in any way hard-hitting or serious. To me, he seemed petulant and unwilling to address her comments directly and forcefully. It was a show, but it has no substance: it was more about his show of exasperation than a successful cross-examination, which is what was needed when dealing with people who don’t make sense.

    People like this spokesperson are best dealt with by forcing them to answer yes or no questions and then following up: did she quit? Yes. How is she not a quitter then? etc.

  29. says

    I just read Mark’s pseudo-scientific analysis of homosexuality and masculinity.

    Mark, I need to process the double-talk but I wanted to make two points:

    1. Gender is learned, so everyone, including you John Wayne, are acting. Babies come out of the womb gender-free. Gender is, to a large degree, affectation.

    2. In order to be taken seriously in any sort of conversation about human psychology, never make sweeping generalizations (“Like all Gay men…”). It makes any truth you may have in your rhetoric seem weaker than it already is.

  30. Mark says

    re: David Ezell

    “Gender is learned… Babies come out of the womb gender-free. Gender is…affectation.”

    I disagree.

    Chromosomal sex differentiation in the womb is irrelevant?

    Hormones like testosterone and estrogen do nothing to human to distinguish human behavior?

    Biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function mean nothing?

    All of these consistent biological differences between males and females have absolutely nothing to do with sex differentiated behavior?

  31. Mark says

    I just read David Ezell’s pseudo-scientific analysis of gender and rhetoric. David, I need to process the double-talk but I wanted to make two points:

    1. “Gender is learned… Babies come out of the womb gender-free. Gender is…affectation.”

    I disagree.

    Chromosomal sex differentiation in the womb is irrelevant?

    Hormones like testosterone and estrogen do nothing to human to distinguish human behavior?

    Biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function mean nothing?

    All of these consistent biological differences between males and females have absolutely nothing to do with sex differentiated behavior?

    2. “In order to be taken seriously…never make sweeping generalizations… It makes any truth you may have in your rhetoric seem weaker than it already is.”

    You mean like saying (without substantiation) that all gender differences in all humans since the beginning of time are learned?

  32. Mark says

    I just read David Ezell’s pseudo-scientific analysis of gender and rhetoric. David, I need to process the double-talk but I wanted to make two points:

    1. “Gender is learned… Babies come out of the womb gender-free. Gender is…affectation.”

    I disagree.

    Chromosomal sex differentiation in the womb is irrelevant?

    Hormones like testosterone and estrogen do nothing to human to distinguish human behavior?

    Biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function mean nothing?

    All of these consistent biological differences between males and females have absolutely nothing to do with sex differentiated behavior?

    2. “In order to be taken seriously…never make sweeping generalizations… It makes any truth you may have in your rhetoric seem weaker than it already is.”

    You mean like saying (without substantiation) that all gender differences in all humans since the beginning of time are learned?

  33. Paul R says

    Umm, Mark, you need to apologize for your inconsistency and absurd generalizations, not your multiple posts. You say, “That means be fit and healthy but stop obsessing about the perfect body (like a woman),” then go on to say that you’re a bodybuilder. Who is more obsessed with perfect bodies than bodybuilders? You complain about guys wearing tight t-shirts, but presumably (if you compete) appear on stage flexing in a speedo? Even if you don’t compete, being a bodybuilder requires strict attention to appearance, nutrition, and other aesthetic issues. I have no problem with that, but according to your worldview that makes you a woman.

    That’s added on to your previous spiel that all urban gay males are identical, and that there’s an official gay culture. That indicates that you have a very narrow view of gay men. I don’t like quite a few gay men (most of my friends are straight), but I’ve lived in urban and rural areas, and my views have nothing to do with location. I just don’t like bitchy, bitter guys–and they live everywhere. Apparently even in your suburban oasis.

  34. Ed says

    WEll of course Andy doesn’t know shit about sports…DUH! Well I gues I shouldn’t say that…I have several gay friends (some of them very feminine) that actually love sports! I’m wondering if Andy is still dating that sexy azz Jonathan Chase….HMMMM

  35. AdamN says

    You’re just as likely to meet some lame ass loser whose idea of gay culture comes from “Queer as Folk” in the suburbs as you are in the big city. In fact I would venture that you are more likely to find more people like that in the suburbs then in the big city since part of REAL urban gay male culture(s) is diversity. Diversity means access to different aspects to, and orientations towards the gay community. Its pretty impossible to generalize the gay urban experience at this point and any attempt to do so comes off as ignorant and homophobic.
    Also its completely valid to argue that much of gender is learned and that applies to both heterosexuals and homosexuals. (Its not like this a new idea. Look up Gender Studies on these here internets) Your posts have been laced with misogynistic undercurrents suggesting that you are basically just projecting your own gender insecurities onto others. Maybe you should worry more about whats going on with you then with these mythical Urban Gay Men that you have invented.

  36. Mark says

    Paul R

    “…being a bodybuilder requires strict attention to appearance, nutrition, and other aesthetic issues. I have no problem with that, but according to your worldview that makes you a woman.”

    No. I said being insecure and obsessed with your body makes you like a woman. Being committed to weighlifting is not the same thing. I’d only expect a Gay not to get that.

    AdamN

    “part of REAL urban gay male culture(s) is diversity.”

    Right. The Urban Gay standard in Official Gay Culture is always rich, white and male. Walk through any Urban Gay Ghetto, read any Gay magazine for a quick reality check on your precious diversity. It’s always the white faggots proclaiming diversity. The only thing you proclaim with all this fetishizing of “diversity” is your self-indulgent ignorance of what real difference is.

    “Also its completely valid to argue that much of gender is learned… (Its not like this a new idea. Look up Gender Studies on these here internets)”

    LOL! “Gender Studies”?! Are you 20? Yeah, dude (I hope) we’ve all read the “Gender Studies” canon. But that has no bearing on biology. Why don’t you try a google search on “biological sex differentiation”? I guess chromosomes; hormones; brain chemistry, structure and function mean nothing to you?

    If we’re really all the same and if gender is not biologically based then why allow sex reassignment surgery for transgender people at all? Who needs surgery and hormones when you can just LEARN to “act” different?

    K O O L A I D .

    Thank you both for proving my point.

  37. AdamN says

    Wow.
    Uh..the only thing that was proven by any of these comments Mark was your incredible ignorance as well giving us all a display of your many insecurities.
    There a lot of different “types” of gay men in the many different urban areas across the country. Its not all rich white “faggots” in gay ghettos. But thanks for showing your true self hating bigoted colors there. Maybe just stay in your little suburban nest then and leave city life to the rest of us.
    And yeah, of course there are biological differences between genders but this doesn’t change the fact that many gender behaviors and aspects of our identity are learned and culturally conditioned.
    It sounds to me like you’ve got some serious issues with gender insecurities and a lot of your own anger and bitterness being projected towards generalized groups of people whom you don’t really know anything about at all.

  38. AdamN says

    Yeah Koolaid…accept that YOU are the one that sounds like a gay dumbass Rush Limbaugh follower. You’ve certainly got the bigoted talking points down.

  39. Mark says

    AdamN

    **”Its not all rich white “faggots” in gay ghettos.”**

    Um…OK. Based on what? I’ve lived in four major American cities for my job. Every bar, restaurant, apartment building, etc is filled with rich white people, Gay and straight. When was the last time you checked rent and sale prices in major cities? The average apartment in Manhattan costs $800,000 (down from $1,200,000 due to recession). Rent? Try $2-3000.

    In Brooklyn, LA, SF, DC, Boston, Chicago, etc you see the same relative expense afforded only by rich white yuppies. Clearly you are way too young and willfully ignorant to comprehend what New York, and most large cities, were like in the 70s and 80s when all kinds of people could afford to live there, when your precious “diversity” was actually visible. But then you’d have to know about Reaganomics and the fucked up Republican go-go 80s that made New York a theme park for rich white people. And you’re to young and willfully ignorant to care about that.

    Far be it from me to disrupt your young-and-stupid-white-faggot-fantasy. Only dumb white fags can run to a large American city in 2009 and see “diversity”.

    **”…there are biological differences between genders but this doesn’t change the fact that many gender behaviors and aspects of our identity are learned and culturally conditioned.”**

    Gender behavior that is “learned and culturally conditioned” is merely cultural exaggeration of legitimate genetic sex difference. Males have different chromosomal and hormonal structure, different brain structure, chemistry and function. That means we think linear and like to fuck a lot. It does not mean we all are genetically programmed to drive pick-up trucks and like the NFL. Who in their right mind would believe that kind of narrow cartoonish version of masculinity is legitimate? Aside from insecure faggots (who need to prove they’re manly all the time)?

    It’s OK to be genetically different from females. When you start pretending gender is fundamentally “learned and culturally conditioned”, however, you unwittingly perpetuate the power of heterosexual hegemony to create that cultural conditioning.

    Gender is not learned. It is *exaggerated* by insecure people, Gay and straight, to cartoonish levels. That is why so many Gaytards affect a manly pose OR act like girls. We ALL know humans are born without cultural affectation. THAT ALSO MEANS FAGGOTRY. Some guys “learned” to be bitchy, catty, queeny little faggots. They were not born that way. Other guys “learned” to pretend they’re super butch. They were not born that way. None were born with the insecurity and self-loathing that produces such exaggerated reaction-formations.

    And that was my original point: stop “acting”.

  40. AdamN says

    Rising costs certainly have affected diversity esp. in very big cities like NYC. (I actually left NYC because of this, I was priced out of Brooklyn. So yeah, kinda know about that) But there are still many different type of people who live in the various different cities in this country and your generalizations are still really fucked up.
    There are certainly more affordable cities in the US then NYC, Chicago, and SF. Even in the more expensive cities there are other kinds of diversity if a lessening of economic diversity. NYC is still a multicultural center even as it has become more and more expensive. Different types of people from all over the world still flock there.
    I really don’t understand what gives you the authority to decide when people are “acting” in terms of how they express their gender. How the fuck do you know? More importantly, why the fuck do you care?
    You keep on talking about these bitchy, nasty, queens but you are the one that ends up sounding like one.

  41. AdamN says

    I’ve spent a lot of time in the last six years or so, complaining about rising costs and how it was affecting life in NYC. I would be the first to speak about how much it has hurt the city culturally and diversity wise.
    But still this “rich, white, faggot” bullshit is way too much. The culture of Chelsea (as lame and homogenized as it is) is not the entire gay experience of NYC and it is not alone responsible for the decline of economic diversity in NYC.

  42. David T says

    Mark, um, you’re a nightmare. Oh, and you’re probably fem. And while I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, something tells me you do.

  43. Whatanidiot says

    SP’s spokesperson sounds like a clone of SP. I didn’t think two people could be so clueless as in changing the noun “progress” into a verb! Where are the intelligent conservatives who should be horrified by this? SP said today the “department of law” would answer ethics questions if she were in federal office. Heyzoos Kristie, where are the intelligent conservatives?

  44. Mark says

    David T

    I wouldn’t expect you to read, much less comprehend, anything I’ve written. But please continue to prove my point with more angry faggotry. Thanks!

  45. Mark says

    AdamN

    “But there are still many different type of people who live in…cities…and your generalizations are still really fucked up. There are certainly more affordable cities in the US then NYC, Chicago, and SF. …NYC is still a multicultural center even as it has become more and more expensive.”

    Really?

    1. From the Drum Major Institute for Public Policy
    http://www.drummajorinstitute.org/library/report.php?ID=12

    “While New York and Los Angeles are diverse cities, segregation levels between whites and blacks, Latinos and Asians are significantly above the national average, especially in New York.”

    2. From the blog at Next American City, a national quarterly magazine and non-profit:

    http://americancity.org/magazine/article/people-suburbs-havens-difference-harmon/

    For those of you who cling to the Official Gay Culture myth of the scary suburbs…

    “…in the greater Baltimore, Maryland region of the 1990s, African-American, Asian-American, and Latino population grew fastest in the inner-ring suburbs, while the number of gay and lesbian couples reporting grew much more steeply in the outer-ring suburbs.”

    “More recently, as GLBT people have migrated to far flung outer suburban neighborhoods, the literature has begun to tell a very different story. Suburban GLBT people often worked hard to challenge prejudice at the border of urban and rural life; now suburban living is viewed as a real option for gay and lesbian people, many of whom are coupled, and many of whom are raising children.”

    3. From Racialicious re: Time Out New York (the preferred NYC weekly for the straight, white and bourgeois):

    “…glaring lack of diversity as it tried to represent one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world.”

    “…[Time Out New York] showed no sign of regret and stated even more clearly (in case we didn’t get the point the first time) that they believed that New York’s “cultural elite” was made up of mostly white people.”

    4. You said, “Even in the more expensive cities there are other kinds of diversity if a lessening of economic diversity. NYC is still a multicultural center even as it has become more and more expensive.”

    In response I say conservative economics perpetuate social inequality. Put down the Cosmo, turn off Queer Eye and wake the fuck up.

    But far be it from me to shatter the ennabling myths of Offical Gay Culture (gender is “learned”, suburbs are “evil”). Keep suckling at the tit of victimhood. Please, continue living in fear. Excellent motivator.

  46. AdamN says

    First, it’s pretty rich for you to be calling anyone angry. Your level of projection is just mind-boggling.
    The same goes for labeling people whom you don’t know as fearful, self-perpetuating victims. For you information, I’m none of the above. I’m also not rich and have absolutely no relationship to Queer Eye, Cosmo, or any bullshit homophobic urban stereotypes that you keep pulling out of your ass.
    Like I said, I am total agreement that economic inequalities in our country have adversely affected the quality and diversity of life in our cities. Seriously, my life in NYC was really fucked and difficult because of this-including living in a “work” loft with no heat in Brooklyn for about six years. I stuck it out for so long to have access to the specific opportunities available in an urban community in relation to my career and also to be apart of a diverse, vibrant and rewarding community- a community that was not at all made solely of rich, gay men. Maybe if you had ventured out of the gay ghettos when you lived in or visited urban areas you would have had different experiences. Or maybe not. But just because you haven’t personally seen or experienced it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
    It’s great that you have found the suburbs to be diverse places and I am all for pushing for gay equality and visibility outside of urban areas. (I never said suburbs were evil and have lived in suburbia myself) But rural and suburban life is not for everyone and there many reasons that many gay people continue to flock to urban communities. Believe it or not that includes reasons that are not in way shape or form connected to these ridiculous caricatures of urban gay life that you continue to set forward.
    I still don’t get where you have inherited this enormous sense of authority- the authority to tell others what REAL gay city life is (apparently based completely on right wing stereotypes), or the authority to tell others the correct way to behave in accordance with their gender (apparently based entirely on your own insecurities).
    Again, I think its great the suburbs work for you. I would never presume to make an over reaching gross generalization about gay communities in suburbia across the country. Its not place and I would totally be talking out of my ass, despite having lived in suburbia myself. I also would never presume to tell some one how to “ correctly” and “naturally” act like a man based upon my own ideas of what constitutes masculinity. There is no way either of us can have authority on such subject, pretending to instantly groups you in with our enemies, the same people who say with self righteous authority that our very existence is “unnatural”.

  47. says

    What was this thread about?

    Oh, yeah, Anderson doesn’t know diddly-squat about sports, bless his heart, and the world is literally Sarah Palin’s oyster. Just refreshing my memory cause the original post kinda got lost amid the masculinity insecurities and urban gay faggot bashing.

  48. Mark says

    AdamN

    “First, it’s pretty rich for you to be calling anyone angry. Your level of projection is just mind-boggling. The same goes for labeling people whom you don’t know as fearful, self-perpetuating victims.”

    I see. Which is not at all like you calling me a “self-hating” “bitchy, nasty, queen”. Which isn’t “mind-boggling” “projection” at all, huh?

    “Maybe if you had ventured out of the gay ghettos when you lived in or visited urban areas you would have had different experiences.”

    Although once a resident of four large American cities for 17 years I’ve never lived in an Urban Gay Ghetto. They’re suffocating, claustrophobic places.

    “I also would never presume to tell some one how to “ correctly” and “naturally” act like a man based upon my own ideas of what constitutes masculinity.”

    You don’t get it…at all. Faked Gay masculinity is merely a symptom of a much larger universal problem: self-loathing. There is no “correct” way to be masculine. There is, however, a natural way to be comfortable with yourself regardless of one’s biologically determined sex, regardless of one’s acquired gender identity. That natural comfort level is missing in Gay men. For example: you say all gender is learned. OK. If that is true then effeminate faggotry AND hyper Gayness (not always the same thing!) is ALSO learned. You can’t have it both ways. If gender is learned then we need to start thinking how and WHY Gay men are so willing to “learn” a gender identity that accomodates hetero-bigoted stereotypes, an identity that gives straight people, especially straight men, the gushing prancing stereotypes they need to feel comfortable around The Gays.

    The only thing I’ve been saying, over and over again, is stop “acting”. Be yourself. That means realizing Official Gay Culture is bullshit. There was a person you were BEFORE you came out. Your personality was set by age 5, long before you ever came out or even thought of it. Get back to that person, incorporate your sexual orienation and be who you already were.

  49. AdamN says

    OK. Read your article.
    Sure there are annoying stupid gay people who base their entire identity around their sexuality. Did anyone here argue that people like that don’t exist? You do know some of those people sometimes live in suburbia too. I have met annoying lame people all over the place. Including the Internet.
    That still doesn’t improve on or back up your ridiculous generalizations about all urban gay men or shine any light on your supposed authority on why we all should all conform to your particular ideas regarding gender.
    I don’t have much of an interest in mainstream gay culture myself and I totally can understand feeling alienated from it. I still have found a place and a community(s) for myself in the urban areas that I have lived in. Its part of that diversity thing you don’t believe in.

  50. AdamN says

    “I see. Which is not at all like you calling me a “self-hating” “bitchy, nasty, queen”. Which isn’t “mind-boggling” “projection” at all, huh?”
    That’s funny!
    Dude, noticing your projection is NOT projecting myself. I just have thrown the words you have thrown at EVERYONE else here back at you. But nice try!
    “Although once a resident of four large American cities for 17 years I’ve never lived in an Urban Gay Ghetto. They’re suffocating, claustrophobic places.”
    Good for you. Neither have I. So what? It still doesn’t make your generalizations about the entire urban gay experience any less ridiculious.
    “You don’t get it…at all. Faked Gay masculinity is merely a symptom of a much larger universal problem: self-loathing.”
    No I do get it. You think that you have some kind of authority to tell me and all the other men there that they are self-loathing and not comfortable with themselves without actually knowing ANY of us. All the while your comments reveal that you have some seriously fucked up issues regarding gender and self-loathing yourself.
    “The only thing I’ve been saying, over and over again, is stop “acting””
    And the only thing I have been saying is who the hell are you to determine when someone is actually “acting”? Under what authority do you have this knowledge?
    Maybe YOU are fucking acting!!
    “Be yourself.”
    Maybe other people are being themselves. Why are you being a dick and telling them should be acting the way YOU want them to be??
    “That means realizing Official Gay Culture is bullshit.”
    I’m no fan of Official Gay Culture myself but it sure as hell beats the world according to Mark.

  51. Mark says

    “Its part of that diversity thing you don’t believe in.”

    Yeah. You really don’t get it. Here’e the point: Official Gay Culture is not about your precious diversity. It’s about conforming, falling in lockstep with everyone else about what “Gay” is. You do it very well: you spent quite a bit of time and energy demonizing me for having the balls to call some of this shit out. What flavor Kool Aid is that? Bitter?

    “You think that you have some kind of authority to tell me and all the other men there that they are self-loathing and not comfortable with themselves…”

    Now who is projecting? I’m an authority? Those are your words Adam. Project much? Read what I actually wrote and tell me what it is you don’t understand: “There is no *correct* way to be masculine. There is, however, a natural way to be comfortable with yourself regardless of one’s biologically determined sex, regardless of one’s acquired gender identity.” I have an opinion based on 26 years of being an out Gay man. Fuck you if you can’t deal with it. Plenty of us are tired of the same old Gay shit.

    I am so tired of hearing legitimate critiques of Gay men and Official Gay Culture attacked. I’m tired of The Gays instantly dismissing these critiques and their authors as projecting and self-loathing. Is it really so threatening to you that some relatively small minority disagrees with Official Gay Culture? What is it you feel you need to protect so desperately? I don’t see the danger. Dissent is valid. I think that is what blogs, and democracy, are for.

    What are you all so fuckin scared of? Many Gay men are assholes. Hope that doesn’t make your head explode.

  52. AdamN says

    “Yeah. You really don’t get it. Here’e the point: Official Gay Culture is not about your precious diversity”
    But you weren’t talking just about Official Gay Culture(?), you were making ignorant, asshole-ish generalizations about all urban gay men (not the same thing!!) and some really screwed up shit about how people should act “naturally” with the assumption that they weren’t before or that you knew better then them about what was natural in the first place. That’s what people were responding to here.
    I don’t care about Official Gay Culture. I don’t even think I know what Official Gay Culture really is. Actually I don’t really think you do either. You just know stereotypes.
    “Now who is projecting? I’m an authority? Those are your words Adam. Project much?”
    I really don’t know what you’re talking about here. You were acting like a self-righteous jerk and I was calling you out for it. That’s not projecting. You might want to look up that word.
    “There is, however, a natural way to be comfortable with yourself regardless of one’s biologically determined sex, regardless of one’s acquired gender identity.”
    Yeah but who are you to determine what is natural for someone else? Why do you care so much about how other people behave in relation to their gender? If someone wants to flame out how does that really affect you? If they wanna butch up, why do you care? How do you know that these behaviors aren’t totally natural for them?
    “Is it really so threatening to you that some relatively small minority disagrees with Official Gay Culture?”
    Ok. One more time: I DON”T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MAINSTREAM GAY CULTURE. Who the hell here was defending mainstream gay culture? Everyone was responding to your generalizations about urban gay men and masculinity.
    I never hung out in Chelsea, I hate musicals, I never had an apple-tini or whatever the fuck they are called. (Is that mainstream gay culture?) I don’t have a problem with critiquing the lameness that is stereotypical mainstream gay culture. (Although mostly I’d rather just not associate with it and spend my time doing other things. Mainstreams or stereotyped versions of anything are generally pretty worthless. Why bother?)
    No what I have a problem with is asshats who make generalizations about ALL urban gay men and tell other people how they should act “naturally” based on the stereotypes and their own armchair psychology.
    “Many Gay men are assholes.”
    No shit?!?

  53. AdamN says

    I just realized that thing I wrote about projections was poorly worded. Its not projecting because my posts have denied both your authority and MINE. I never have said that I know the right “natural” way to behave in terms of ones masculinity. I have instead denied your self presumed authority to do that to others. That’s why its not projecting.

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