1. Gast says

    We need to help these people in their Countries so that they along with the people they left behind can prosper. We can’t be the solution to every economic crisis, dictator or injustice around the world. I agree that comprehensive immigration reform is needed, but we can’t continue to be the wide open America that we have been all these years, at some point we have to stand up for our National identity. Every Country out there was made out of immigrants, some more established than others, and that doesn’t demean their pursuit and defense of a National identity.

  2. JJ Tw says

    “…at some point we have to stand up for our National identity.”

    Que? Immigration is part and parcel of our national identity.

  3. Gast says


    Well that is your view, but definitely not a value I or many other Americans share.

    But let me ask you this: does whatever Country you are from have a National identity? is it ever evolving by millions of people migrating there?

  4. Dan says

    Sadly, there isn’t even a snowball’s chance in hell of anything gay-friendly passing in an immigration bill, which itself will already be hugely controversial.

    1) Dems view gays as disposable. Were this bill to have a gay clause in it, that would be one of the first concessions made to Republicans.

    2) The Dems will lose control of Congress in the mid-term elections.

    Again, us gays will get nothing. FULL STOP. Quit banging your heads against the wall (although I hear getting sunshine during marches helps with Vitamin D levels).

  5. JJ Tw says

    “But let me ask you this: does whatever Country you are from have a National identity? is it ever evolving by millions of people migrating there?”

    I am from the US. The US is not an ancestral nation like France (made up of Gallic peoples) or Norway (made up of Norse). Our national ID is not defined by ethnic ancestry.

    The US is an idea. It absorbs people from all over who are willing to subscribe to the ideals of democracy, fairness, opportunity, justice and all that good stuff. We are unique among the nations in that regard. And we are great country for it.

  6. JJ Tw says

    And please don’t pretend to speak for “many Americans.” Yours is not the prevailing view. Nativism has always been a minority opinion.

  7. Gast says

    The Gauls were Celtic people who established themselves in the region we now know as France, they weren’t always natives of that region. They didn’t always uphold “Nativism” as their National way of life, but they grew to be the Nation they are today. A Nation that provides opportunity for others, but that also safeguards their National identity.

    If you believe that all people that come here subscribes to:

    “the ideals of democracy, fairness, opportunity, justice and all that good stuff”

    You are naive and wrong. And make no mistake, there are millions of Americans who believe it is time for stronger National security and for immigration reform that puts the American people first.

    Oh and just so you know President Obama himself has already deported more illegal immigrants than George W Bush. So yeah keep your hopes up.

  8. JJ Tw says

    Yeah, the teabagging, nativists types are always braying about hermetically sealing the border, but not gonna happen. So don’t get your hopes up.

    Er, how is this about Obama v. Bush? Obama’s comprehensive immigration plan will likely mirror Bush’s, who had a great plan that was topedoed by regressives in his own party.

  9. Gast says

    “sealing the border, but not gonna happen. So don’t get your hopes up”

    See that statement alone, proves why uncontrolled immigration erodes our National Identity, suddenly we care more about those outside than we do about our people. Shameful.

  10. Gast says

    By The Way, I find it quite amusing that next to this post there is an ad by Fight Back New York depicting Congressman Diaz (perhaps the most anti equality public officials), an immigrant who has fought against those principles you say people subscribe to once they move here.

  11. Gast says

    The only thing “creepy” here is you wanting us to surrender our borders and our identity.

  12. JJ Tw says

    Funny how you criticize immigrants for being anti-equality based on the opinions of one State senator when close to 100% of conservatives who are mainly white don’t believe in marriage equality themselves. In every state where it has been put to a popular vote, marriage equality has failed. Perhaps, unfortunately, he is in tune with American values as they stand now.

    And guess what? Most of those nativists you throw in your lot with don’t believe in marriage equality either. So nice strawman there.

    And look at that photo above. I would take that cute Salvadorian guy and those hot latina women as my fellow americans over a fat, angry teabagger any day. ūüėČ

  13. Gast says

    Ah so that is it, you have the hots for illegal immigrants lol.

    If Sen. Diaz doesn’t do it for you, we can discuss Florida, one of the states with higher percent of immigration, consequently a primarily conservative state which has voted to ban equality by 62%.

    But this is not about how conservative or liberal immigrants are, this is about securing the identity and sovereignty of our Nation.

  14. JJ Tw says

    I prefer them over fatass, ugly teabaggers. So yes, I do. :)

    Maine is northeast liberal/moderate state, 97% white and it voted down marriage equality along with EVERY other state where it was put to a vote. It really didn’t what the demos of a particular state is. They all voted against it. Can’t blame immigrants on this.

  15. TANK says

    Ah, no. Maine’s the alabama of new england. It’s not liberal/moderate–at least not on social issues. It’s less progressive than new hampshire, and that’s saying a lot.

  16. JJ Tw says

    Doesn’t NH have a “live and let live” libertarian streak? So that might not be saying a lot.

  17. Gast says

    “fatass, ugly teabaggers”

    How classy and patriotic of you to refer to your fellow Americans with those words.

    Illegal immigrants don’t get to participate in American politics, so I don’t know what point you are trying to make. This is a Sovereign Nation and will remain so for as long as we the people live.

    Immigrants should be happy Immigration Reform hasn’t and isn’t going to take place in the near future, for when it does, it will bring about changes that people like you won’t like. The American people will pursue strong policy to make sure we don’t find ourselves in this situation ever again.

  18. JJ Tw says

    Lol you are a gay teabagger. Sensitive much?

    Please don’t lecture me about how hateful immigrants are when you are siding with on of the most unhinged and hateful movements in modern US history.

  19. TANK says

    Bah! Live free or die originated with patrick henry’s pronouncement, “GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!” But, and this is a biggee, Patrick Henry was a crazed lunatic dismissed by his peers on matters of policy and, more importantly, social organizing principle. That’s because almighty god was more than just a happy fairytale for Mr. Henry…he was a frothing at the mouth christianist who wanted virginia to be a christian theocracy (Jefferson took one look at him, and said, “there there, sad little man”–but only behind his back, because henry was quite literally insane and jefferson was a coward, and consumate politician). He was the kinda guy who’d stand outside of a house of ill repute, mouth frothing, screaming, “whores…whores damned to eternal hellfire,” until he was hoarse. The kinda guy who’d beat off to biblical verses, and then whip himself bloody for touching himself. And yes, there are a lot of patrick henry types in new hampshire…but apparently, more in maine…liberty=christian totalitarianism for them. So yes, it is saying a lot about the attitudes of the two states. But results are all that matters, and new hampshire is, quite simply, more progressive than maine.

  20. TANK says

    And let’s be honest…new england is the bellwether for civil rights in this country. The people are just better educated (I don’t wanna say smarter, because I’ve been pleasantly shocked by a few southern gentlemen in my time…that is to say, they were smarter than moi…which is the only way to get me into bed–trickery and impressery…). But new england is the benchmark of which all other states try to play catch-up. Which if you live in maine, is dispiriting…because the people are the economy…shit.