Chris Crocker | Discrimination | News

Watch: Chris Crocker on Masculine Gays vs. Feminine Gays

Crocker

Chris "Leave Britney Alone" Crocker talks about discrimination within the gay community by masculine gays against feminine gays.

"Listen!" (warning: language), AFTER THE JUMP...

(via ed kennedy)

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  1. I have nothing against males, straight or gay, who happen to be effeminate. But white trash like Chris Crocker annoys the hell out of me.

    Posted by: Hank | May 5, 2011 8:39:48 AM


  2. @Hank, because being poor is worse than being femme.

    Posted by: qjersey | May 5, 2011 8:45:07 AM


  3. i'm somewhere in between masculine and feminine. i've been out since i'm fifteen. and while i don't disagree with some of the sentiment set forth in mr. crocker's message, i just have to ask: doesn't this video seem to propagate the same kind of division and inter-community discrimination that it purports to condemn?

    Posted by: Joseph Petrella | May 5, 2011 8:48:12 AM


  4. I detest in a MAJOR way gay/bi men who identify as "straight acting." What I've never understood is how those gays can condemn femme gays, how they befriend straight guys and proceed to condemn and mock femme men, however, these straight and gay men are themselves putting on an act, much more so than a large portion of femme gay men, and femme men in general, who simply are who they are. Guys who are that obsessed with adhering to gender stereotypes and not wanting to be caught dead around a guy who isn't, have real masculinity issues. A lot of men seem to think being macho defines them as a man, but that couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Posted by: Francis | May 5, 2011 8:50:00 AM


  5. Wise words from a man and/or a transgender person who is clearly growing into his own.

    Posted by: bk | May 5, 2011 8:53:44 AM


  6. Love Chris for saying this.

    Posted by: Tikihead | May 5, 2011 8:54:49 AM


  7. Chris Crocker knows what masculine gays think? HAHA too funny!

    I'm gay and masculine. I'm the guy Chris rants about, but he doesn't know me, he lumps me into this group and he thinks he knows me because I can chop wood like the best of them.

    Chris, I have no straight world complex and have no need to be accepted by straights or you. But thanks for playing!

    Posted by: Fred | May 5, 2011 8:57:58 AM


  8. Oh, and BTW, I pretty much 100% agree with Chris, and there isn't any really way to not agree with him. He's right.

    Posted by: Francis | May 5, 2011 8:59:04 AM


  9. @QJERSEY, income level seems to have nothing to do with trashiness. There are plenty of rich people and plenty of poor people who are utter trash.

    Posted by: MT | May 5, 2011 8:59:05 AM


  10. Chris has a point as a 'fem' gay the str* acting guys that Ive come across dont accept you etc in public! We as gays need to accept that people in our community are shallow, it internalised homophobia within our own kind

    Posted by: nick | May 5, 2011 9:01:39 AM


  11. Can't wait to see all the self-hating/discriminatory gays expose themselves on this thread. (E.I. FRED)

    Posted by: mike | May 5, 2011 9:15:03 AM


  12. Great posting, FRANCIS. It's all about being non-judgemental. Judgemental homosexuals are just as bad as any minority group passing judgement. As for the majority group--we simply expect it of them.

    FRED,

    Masculinity...SUPERFICIAL "real masculine" voice, mannerisms, nuance of movement, the way you sit down on a damn toilet--that definition of masculinity is all in the eye of the beholder (not that I'm lurking around in the Minneapolis Men's Room).

    What's reasonably masculine to the average Gay guy may NOT be to a "queen"-- who may be used to dealing with "Butch Trade". So, don't pat yourself on the back too hard about being "traditionally masculine". I've seen many a Gay man who prided himself on being indistinguishable from his straight counter-part and as I observed him all I thought was, "Child, please."

    And for most "queens" who crave macho guys it's all about fantasy. We don't respect them anymore than they respect us--until they spread their masculine legs up in the air--then the "queen" develops a fondness for the big bad macho man...or atleast his macho booty.

    Posted by: Derrick from Philly | May 5, 2011 9:17:53 AM


  13. I actually think he's got some good points and this is a long overdue conversation, but I've never really felt accepted by feminine gays either. I get looked at by a lot of them like I don't belong because I don't dress that well, am not trendy, and don't keep my hair a certain way. I basically hang around with people who I think will accept me for who I am. A lot of those people happen to be people like me or straight people.

    Posted by: Troy | May 5, 2011 9:30:04 AM


  14. @mike, "E.I" doesn't mean anything. I think you were going for "i.e." and even then you would have been incorrect for failing to use "e.g."

    it seems most of the reaction to this thread is self-identified "feminine gays" hating on masculine gays or simply reducing them to closet power bottoms. i'm not opining as the validity for the argument, just again pointing out the hypocrisy of mr. crocker and those who laud him as "right."

    Posted by: Joseph Petrella | May 5, 2011 9:38:21 AM


  15. I found this video early yesterday, and I have to say I am REALLY impressed with how much Chris Crocker has grown. He has a really smart argument going on here, and I agree with him fully.

    I don't really understand why Joseph Petrella thinks this is counterproductive. Is it just because he's Chris Crocker, and everyone thinks of him as the overdramatic teen he was four years ago and won't allow him room to grow? Because I'm definitely seeing a lot of that.

    And HANK, what good is calling him white trash doing anybody? Completely uncalled for.

    Posted by: Lucas | May 5, 2011 9:38:53 AM


  16. When I came out the first gay guy I told said I was a "gay man in a straight man's body". I think Chris' message is correct, that we should not judge our brothers, but seriously there are a LOT of us who enjoy traditional male activities. Fem acting guys should also not discriminate against those of us who prefer mountain biking to eye liner.

    Posted by: Mark | May 5, 2011 9:39:50 AM


  17. @lucas. i'm in the middle of law exams and don't have a lot of time to elaborate on my point, but i just wanted to be clear about the fact that my opinion doesn't stem from any opinion about mr. crocker. before seeing this video, i had never heard of him and still don't know who he is...i was a bit surprised by this myself, since i read countless gay blogs everyday.

    the video starts by asking something to the effect of, "why would we want to discriminate within our own community?" which is a very good question. however, immediately proceeding to make blanket stereotypes about "masculine" gays and blaming them for not participating in the gay rights movement sufficiently or correctly seems a bit hypocritical. that's all i'm saying.

    Posted by: Joseph Petrella | May 5, 2011 9:45:10 AM


  18. MT: You nailed it.

    Qjersey: Is Crocker poor? I neither know nor care. Trashiness transcends income levels and ethnicity. Just ask your friends on Jersey Shore.

    Posted by: Hank | May 5, 2011 9:53:06 AM


  19. Well, nice to see that hypocrisy is alive and well in the gay community. Seriously, I've seen far more judgmental behavior from the fems of the gay community than from the other end of the spectrum. The very responses here demonstrate it quite nicely, actually.

    "Straight acting" gays are all self loathers. If you aren't effeminate you must be kissing up to the straights.

    What utter BS. You can't whine about others not accepting you for being effeminate, then turn around and expect to be taken seriously when you start insulting and condemning others for not behaving just like you.

    Posted by: LiamB | May 5, 2011 9:57:00 AM


  20. Wow. Mea culpa. I think a lot of us tend to ignore or are threatened by the diversity of our own community. The "comfortable" closet is never that far away for many of us, especially when we feel that our proximity to "feminine" gays threatens our standing in our straight working or social environments. I've generally considered myself out for thirty-five years. Now, I'm not so sure. Thanks for making me check the man in the mirror.

    Posted by: windsor ron | May 5, 2011 10:01:16 AM


  21. omg Derrick you're priceless. I agree 100%. Will raise a glass to you when I'm in Philly next month. :)

    Posted by: The Milkman | May 5, 2011 10:06:14 AM


  22. @LIAMB He did say ALL self-identified "straight acting" gays act this way. Just the ones that discriminate. If you are offended by what he said, it's more of a reflection of yourself.

    Posted by: YOyo | May 5, 2011 10:10:32 AM


  23. Abuse, bigotry and discrimination needs to CEASE in the entirety of the LGBTQ community - because who knows better than we how it feels, when others judge us for how very diverse we really are. This community of diversity needs to set a very high standard of acceptance, welcome inclusion, and create safe space for all kinds of people to feel comfortable, being themselves. Human beings are far more complex than their mere outward appearance or behavior. The answer to abuse is not to turn and abuse our own -- merely because one has not accepted him or herself, as yet; or has not yet accepted the differences in others. Aretha said it best: R.E.S.P.E.C.T. - find out what it means to Human Beings that you may know, first; and then see people for who they are, not who we want them to be. There's plenty of butch who love sarong and sandals; and plenty of femme who are at home with the golf and power tools. Freedom to be equal, means freedom to set the best example of humane behavior. ~thanks.

    Posted by: Christophe | May 5, 2011 10:10:48 AM


  24. correction: He didn't say ALL self-identified "straight acting" gays act this way. Just the ones that discriminate. If you are offended by what he said, it's more of a reflection of yourself.

    Posted by: YOyo | May 5, 2011 10:11:36 AM


  25. Oh, I definitely have sissyphobia, but I do recognize it for what it is - an internalized homoophobia, and a flaw for me to work on and overcome. I'm far more accepting now at 49 than when I was younger, but you don't overcome the bad habits and thinking of a lifetime overnight. So, yes, it's my problem, not yours, I'm working on it, cut me some slack, and I'll cut you some slack.

    Posted by: Justin L Werner | May 5, 2011 10:15:00 AM


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