How ‘Linsanity’ is Improving One Gay Man’s Sex Life

Lin

Gay Asian blogger Yellow Peril on how the craze over New York Knicks star Jeremy Lin is having "sociosexual" implications:

Normally I don’t like it when guys bring up my race when they’re hitting on me. Without question, race is usually a major component of sexual chemistry (and I certainly have my own preferences), but there’s no easier way to feel like a piece of meat than when you’re being compared to an anime character. But this was different. And it was entirely new to me.

I was being likened to an all-American mainstream superstar, not a niche fetish.

Since then, I’ve gotten wing-manned by Linsanity on several more occasions. On my Adam4Adam account, I have a picture posted that features me clutching a strategically-placed basketball. (I took this picture as one of the subjects of a photography project called Sexy Geeks.) The photoshoot was taken months before Jeremy’s Shakespearean rise to meteoric stardom, when the image of an Asian man clutching a basketball was meant to be a critique on societal stereotypes. How quickly things change.

Now, I’d gotten no less than 30 messages on Adam4Adam that directly comment on the basketball picture, gushing about Jeremy Lin.

More at…

Asian Men with Balls: Sociosexual Implications of Linsanity [i am yellow peril]

(image source)

Comments

  1. says

    it’s been very interesting watching people suddenly realize that cultural insensitivity toward the Asian communities still exists. It’s oft forgotten. We knew “blackface” was wrong, but didn’t have a problem with Mickey Rooney’s racist tour-de-force performance as Mr. Yunioshi, complete with bottle-glasses and buck-teeth.

    we still have the culture of “no asians” from gallingly clueless guys online.

    the recent flurry of nonsensical puns related to Lin’s ethnicity have been (hopefully!) a wake up call to those out there who believe that there aren’t still very-real levels of racial prejudice, bias and perception in our society.

    The Work is not done….

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/10/work.html

  2. David in NYC says

    Nino – get outta her with that. People are bigots when they don’t want to hire someone based on race.

    People’s different sexual attraction preferences do not a bigot make.

  3. david says

    I like how people just throw out shits like “race is a component of sexual chemistry means you are a bigot”.

    The fact that a big part of sexual attraction is primal and instinctive means that you are not to confuse that with racial prejudice. Just because you happen to find everyone could be attractive that doesn’t mean everyone is attractive to everyone and this should apply to everyone. Many factors, genetics, social backgrounds, upbringing, and everything in between could shape the perspective of what is deemed attractive. And in this case, especially as gay men, depends on your sexual identity, the attraction could mean anything from being masculine or feminine or everything in between. Just like personality, talents, and looks, race, which plays an important role of how you look somehow cannot be part of your sexual selection simply because it is not political correct? You got to be freaking kidding me. what you are attracted to is simply that, what you are attracted to, stop throwing your worthless 2 cents of political correctness in this. God am I sick of these self righteous pricks.

  4. says

    here’s a fun fact that a lot of people will deny – if what you don’t like about the person is their ethnicity, then you have AN ISSUE WITH THAT ETHNICITY.

    into white guys? well, you’re clearly not into ALL white guys.

    how, then, can one say “i’m not into asians”? you dont’ see The Person, you see The Ethnicity. That means you have an unacknowledged, and perhaps subconscious, issue with that ethnicity.

    you can argue with me all you like. you’re still wrong.

    and before some dunce brings it up, NO, it’s not like saying “you hate women because you’re gay”, because orientations are concepts of attraction and beauty are two wholly different separate things. so there.

    “not into asians” ? great. you’re a product of white-worshipping culture and don’t have the brain power to see it, acknowledge it, and rise above it.

  5. TyN says

    Regardless of your preferences, you should still be able to identify when someone is attractive regardless of race. I have my preferences but have found beautiful guys of all types. It doesn’t make you racist. Am I hairist because I prefer darker haired guys over lighter?

  6. says

    oh, by the way, before someone gets their insecure-white-panties in a bunch about this:

    you’re free to have your preferences against ethnic groups. just like the rest of us are free to prefer not to associate with intellectually-feeble men with racially-biased preferences.

    “not into asians”? well, i’m not into guys with racial preferences. sorry. it’s just my preference.

    😉

  7. Nat says

    “”not into asians” ? great. you’re a product of white-worshipping culture and don’t have the brain power to see it, acknowledge it, and rise above it.”

    Just curious: how do you approach non-white ethnicities who express preferences for particular ethnicities? Do you spend as much time berating them as you do white men for being racist? Or do you prefer to just completely deny their agency and claim that they’re self-deluding subscribers to a white heterosexual patriarchy?

  8. Nat says

    “here’s a fun fact that a lot of people will deny – if what you don’t like about the person is their ethnicity, then you have AN ISSUE WITH THAT ETHNICITY.”

    That’s not a fact, that’s an opinion. You calling other people idiots because of it doesn’t make it anymore a fact; you’re merely affirming your own desire for self-righteous expression.

    Really, your inability to try to rationalize independently of your own predilections towards bullying is a genuine shame, because you appear reasonably intelligent.

  9. says

    Nat, same thing – just as many gay men are culturally “taught” to loathe “gayness” (and NO, gayness doesn’t mean anything to do with being effeminate: one can be visibly, and Obviously, Gay without being “femme”, you know).

    they too are experiencing the trickle-down effect of white-worshipping culture. this is evidenced all-over, actually: many cultures still value the “more white-appearing” members of their own ethnic and cultural communities. marketing. advertising.

    what is “beautiful”? look at the myriad “Black and White” doll tests that are done on children – we have a culture that says Blonde and White is the Gold Standard for beauty, and that doesn’t just affect how white people see beauty, it does indeed GREATLY affect how non-white people see themselves.

    if you’re not into a person BECAUSE OF THEIR ETHNICITY then you do indeed have a racially-biased “preference” indicative of a learned societal bias toward that ethnicity. there’s no way around that. sorry.

  10. ratbastard says

    Amazing how EVERYTHING ends up about ‘cultural sensitivity’, ‘racism’, and usually ‘bad’ white [males]. EVERYTHING…LITERALLY, at least when dealing with hardcore P.C. ‘progressives’, whose talking points are white males=the enemy.EVERYONE apparently needs someone to hate on, a negative to create a positive?

    BTW I’m white and I’ve always found Asian males attractive in the same way I find any other good-looking [at least what turns me on sexually] male, white or otherwise. And of course there’s the notorious [and accurate] white heterosexual male’s yellow fever Asian female attraction. But I think all other non-Asian heterosexual males also find Asian females very attractive.

    I suppose Asian dudes must deal with the powerful ‘geek’ factor, which is generally not a turn-on for a lot of people. Is this specifically ‘racist’? No. And I attended H.S. for 2 years in a Chinatown neighborhood, my school was more than 50% Asian,mostly ethnic Chinese. There were plenty of dudes who were neither geeks nor particularly smart.

  11. says

    actually, Nat, it’s not an opinion. it’s sociological fact. it is. it’s not self-righteous to point out such sociological realities.

    we live in a world that values Money, Whiteness and Heterosexuality above all else.

    “i’m not into him because i’m not into asians”

    right. there’s nothing remotely indicative of an unaddressed issue with ethnicity in such a statement. when you only see The Ethnicity and not The Individual you have an unaddressed issue with that ethnicity.

    there’s no way around that.

  12. Caliban says

    Sexual attraction is like the “golden mean” in art and architecture, an almost indescribable and individual response to other people, sometimes having a strong reaction to one person while having none to one who looks quite similar. If someone says, “Ugh! I could NEVER be attracted to a _____” it could very well be racist, but someone saying “I’ve never really been attracted to ____” might be a simple statement of fact. And no one OWES it to another person to have sex with them. And who wants to be a pity-f*ck anyway?

  13. Nat says

    You didn’t actually answer my question.

    I didn’t ask: what do you think of non-white ethnicities being exclusively or mostly attracted to whites?

    I asked: “how do you approach non-white ethnicities who express preferences for particular ethnicities?”

    What animates the mindset of a gay black man who only prefers other gay black men or gay East Asians? How about a gay First Nations man that only prefers gay Arabic men? How about a gay Turkish man who only likes gay black men? What set of prejudices and values are roiling around in their heads that make them desire the particular ethnicities that they do?

  14. RGB says

    It’s impossible to try and explain to a white liberal why they’re a racist. They recycle, how could they possibly be racist? It’s like talking to a brick wall, only with a brick wall your chances of getting it to agree with you are greater.

  15. says

    Nat, it’s not just the environment we grew up in , but how we did (or did not) fit in.

    the first thing to understand in this issue – you can’t compare White to Non-White as if they’re on an “even playing field” – you cannot disregard that this is still a very much a White Man’s World. This is an important distinction.

    and there are indeed the flip-side attractions: those who are “into” certain ethnicities in an ethniccally-fetishized way.

    my asian friends who have legions of stories of men wanting, literally, a subservient “oriental boy” (or woman). my black friends who all too often meet guys who aren’t Color-Blind, but Color-Fetishizing – they want the dominant black thug.

    asians are passive effeminate bottoms. blacks are rough thug tops. and so on, and so on…..

    people fetishize ethnicity. people have knee-jerk negative responses to ethnicities.

    the reality is that none of these responses is INNATE – they’re all indicative of our greater culture and the underlying biases and preconceptions associated with ethnicity and race in our culture.

    come ON, folks.

  16. Dan E says

    @Kiwi: “no Asians” is indeed clueless, and, even if someone feels that way, is both stupid and mean-spirited to put out in public.

    That said, I’m curious: how do you propose people get past their racial hang-ups vis-a-vis attraction? I’ve been aware for years that I find white and hispanic men more attractive. I even, for a time, would feel guilty for not finding every black and asian man who hits on me attractive (before I realized I also don’t find every white and hispanic man to hit on me attractive; I do, however, unquestionably find a greater proportion of them attractive). But I’m at a complete loss on how I change what turns me on.

    I would never say “white and latin only” (and have in fact had black and asian lovers), but you seem to be implying that a decent human being would somehow– without actually explaining how– change what he (or she) finds sexually attractive. I’m curious as to how you think that works.

  17. jmg says

    Little Kiwi,

    You still have not answered Nat’s question so I will repeat it:

    how do you approach non-white ethnicities who express preferences for particular ethnicities?”

    Indeed, you may think they are products of a society that values white above all else,
    but DO YOU BERATE THEM FOR THEIR PREFERENCES like you berate white men on here?

  18. Nat says

    “This is an important distinction.”

    No, the particular way you’ve constructed that statement makes it irrelevant to what I’m asking.

    You’re still not actually answering my question. You’re only repeating cultural stereotypes about certain ethnicities.

    Is it your implication that the First Nations man only being attracted to Arabic men arises out of internalized stereotypes about Arabic men? What is that First Nations man thinking about, culturally?

  19. says

    Dan E, the first step is literally the same as the first step that anti-gay people need to take: STOP TELLING YOURSELF THAT YOU DON’T LIKE _______ EVERY DAY.

    literally.

    people reinforce their own nonsense all the time.

    how do i approach them, JMG and NAT? well, when some non-white people come on we’ll see how that goes. so far it’s just white people insisting that they’re not in any way racist for finding all people of _____-ethnicity collectively unappealing.

    how HAVE i approached them, in the past? well, considering that it’s never come up with the same energy that the angrily-defensive white boys tend to bring, it doesn’t have the same level of berating. truth.

    oh, and i don’t “think” they’re the products of society – i’m stating a sociological fact that they are the products of society.

    concepts of beauty and attraction are cultural. societal.

    asians have been desexualized in society, unless you’re counting the subservient “oriental beauties” in pornography who just love being gangbanged by groups of non-Asian men.

    do a search online and try to find porno of asian men with white women.

    are there any asian male porn stars in north american porn, anyway?

    asians are oft disregarded in our culture. every year at the oscars the talk of “lack of black nominees” comes up. how about the fact that only two asian actors have ever won acting oscars? (miyoshi umecki and haing s. ngor).

    or when gay men complain that there aren’t enough “masculine gay male role models on TV” …well, for more than a decade BD Wong (openly gay actor) has played gay characters on two HUGELY SUCCESSFUL television series: Oz and Law & Order: SVU.

    why, then, are his portrayals not cited as the “non-stereotypical” gay characters that they are? simple: it seems that to many gay men being an Asian “doesn’t count”.

    i don’t find EVERY PERSON of every ethnicity attractive. i do, however, find individual people within our world’s glorious ethnic cultures sexually attractive.

    guys who are only into white guys aren’t into EVERY white guy, right?

    but how to get over such limitations? it’s a process. and it starts with people simply stopping the reiteration of “I dont like _____” every day.

  20. jmg says

    Little Kiwi,

    Are you telling me you have never met a black gay man who is not into Asians? Or vice versa? By your standards they should be ridiculed as much as the whities.

  21. Nino says

    David, why is it when a straight white male says he’s “not into black women,” he’s perceived as racist (John Mayer a few years ago), but when a gay white male says he’s “not into Asians” its just his “preference”? This is a problem, and we can’t ignore it.

  22. says

    JMG, nothing in any of my comments suggests that.

    if you want to understand this discussion re-read what i’ve written a few times. if you’re just here to argue with me, you wont’ have a good time because i actually know what i’m talking about.

  23. Caliban says

    “they’re all indicative of our greater culture and the underlying biases and preconceptions associated with ethnicity and race in our culture.”

    That CAN be true, but it’s just as likely to be a matter of preference toward certain physical traits. Some people have a strong attraction to blonds so they’re unlikely to find an Asian, Black, Hispanic, Jewish, or Italian person attractive unless they have light hair, which is unlikely in some of those cases.

    Personally I’m NOT attracted to blonds as a general rule and prefer hairy men, so my reaction to those groups is different and it has nothing to do with a deeply held dislike of Scandinavians. I’m frequently attracted to “swarthy” men with dark (preferably black) hair, often attracted to black men, but very rarely to Asian men not because I think they’re “inscrutable” passive math whizzes but because they just don’t push my “buttons.” It isn’t even that I don’t think they’re attractive or aesthetically pleasing, but that I rarely have an erotic response, there’s no heat to my appreciation.

    And I’m not interested in rewiring my erotic responses just to suit the self-appointed standard bearers of what is correct or right for everyone else.

  24. Glenn says

    The moral/political aspect aside for the moment (not that it’s not important), anytime you say categorically you’re “not into [x]” you’re just cutting yourself off from a whole lot of eligible men! That just doesn’t make good sense from a sexual economics standpoint. Variety is the spice of life, gents!

  25. says

    there’s a website called “there’s a negro in my mom”

    no. i’m not kidding. the purpose of the site? fetishizing racial tensions.

    many people fetishize “shame” and “humiliation” scenes, and in our culture we still have people who feel “shame” when it comes to certain ethnicities.

    there are people who live in racially-prejduiced cultures who find the “taboo thrill” of interracial sex the turn on. because, to them, it’s TABOO to “mix ethnicities” – the racially-tense feelings are the turn on.

    then there are people who fetishize the ethnicities based on preconceptions. then there are colorblind people who see PEOPLE, not ethnic groups.

  26. Nat says

    “how do i approach them, JMG and NAT? well, when some non-white people come on we’ll see how that goes. so far it’s just white people insisting that they’re not in any way racist for finding all people of _____-ethnicity collectively unappealing.”

    So the First Nations man who only prefers Arabic men would acknowledge he’s racist?

    how HAVE i approached them, in the past? well, considering that it’s never come up with the same energy that the angrily-defensive white boys tend to bring, it doesn’t have the same level of berating. truth.”

    Please. Your entire posting record consists of disproportionate attacks on people. Your claim that you respond like with like is without merit.

    “oh, and i don’t “think” they’re the products of society – i’m stating a sociological fact that they are the products of society.”

    Kiwi, I don’t think you understand what social facts are, or if you do, you’ve never clearly expressed any understanding. You should be more careful in the terminology you employ.

    In any case, your opinion (or conclusion, if you prefer) still remains your opinion. It may be a considered opinion, reached after surveying a vast body of data, but it remains an opinion. That’s not any sort of po-mo sentiment on my part, just an observation that your conclusions are inapplicable to the kind of analysis you purport to be drawing on.

    “asians have been desexualized in society, unless you’re counting the subservient “oriental beauties” in pornography who just love being gangbanged by groups of non-Asian men….”

    I’m just going to cut this off here. Why are you discussing this at length? It’s only tangentially related to what is being discussed.

    You still haven’t really addressed the fundamental part of my related question: what’s in the mind of a non-white ethnicity expressing an exclusive preference for a particular ethnicity?

  27. luminum says

    You know, I recently came across a profile seeking an “asian boyfriend. …i say asian bcause there known to be loyal and affectionate.”

    Barf. Next.

    I always hate getting the whole “I love Asian men” line. You “love Asian men?” Well lucky you, because in addition to me, there are 7 other Asian men in this bar who look and act nothing like me or one another. Glad you love us all.

  28. says

    thing is though, Caliban, there isn’t a long-standing culture of prejudice toward blondes or hairy men.

    this is something that people keep disregarding.

    America was racially segregated mere decades ago, folks. stop thinking racial tensions are gone merely because Integration happened.

    the ironic thing is this: all the people who say “don’t tell me who i’m supposed to be attracted to” have already let greater culture dictate to them who and what they will be attracted to.

    for the life of me, i’ve never understood why people are so proud of their limitations.

    Caliban, i know what you mean – i like my punks and rockers. that said, more and more punks and rockers are coming in different Colours (thank you east village!!!).

    there are so many gay men who have a terrified socially-learned FLEE response to “guys that they can tell are gay” – not femme, not girly, but Visibly Gay. this is learned, too. and limiting.

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/11/oh-abercrombie-fitch.html

    check THAT out.

  29. Jeremy says

    You seem really angry.

    The people who say things like “no asians” aren’t worth bothering yourself over. You aren’t going to change their minds by arguing with them. They haven’t arrived at their biases by rational means.

    I think you’re falling into the same trap that so many ardent deconstructors of bias and privilege do. That is, you’re letting your animus against the system be turned into vitriolic rhetoric, which in turn is alienating potential converts.

    You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Look at all these guys in this thread. None of them so far are obviously racist. They feel, and rightfully so, defensive because you’ve insinuated that they are actively racist because of who they find attractive.

    It is a legitimate and worthy discussion to dissect why and how certain cultures favor some appearances over others and what that says about them. What is not legitimate, or correct, is to assert that those preferences, when held on a personal level, are immoral. You might as well say someone is evil because they prefer blue to red.

    De gustibus non est disputandem.

  30. atomic says

    I just want to thank Little Kiwi for his sane, consistent, and impassioned reasoning among these comments. The responses to his claims have been predictable as well as indicative of the degree to which racism has been ingrained into notions of desirability among gay male culture.

    In fact, I think a lot of you are arguing against LK’s points not because of the existence of evidence to the contrary, but because you wish to defend your own prejudices. That’s exactly the same kind of behavior we see from homophobes when you point out their homophobia.

    Tastes can and do change. I should know, because they did for me. When I was younger, I used to be exclusively attracted to the stereotypical athletic white male ideal (think A&F models). But it didn’t take me long to grow out of that, as I discovered that a large number of them were vapid, self-absorbed, and had nothing genuine to offer (hence their obsessive attention to their own appearance). I started to look at guys of all types, and I realized that I tended to prefer men within +/- 10 years of my own age, who were attentive and considerate, with an easygoing personality. I also discovered I really like body hair on a guy, but it’s not a deal-breaker if he’s smooth. My point is that if you had asked me 15 years ago what I thought was attractive, my answer would’ve been completely different from what I would say today. And who knows what I’ll say 15 years from now? There have been guys of a wide array of ethnicities I’ve found attractive; admittedly, some more than others, but it’s not something I look at as a prerequisite.

    It’s when you start filtering people on the basis of broad non-behavioral categories, and you say “no fats/fems/asians/blacks” etc. before you even bother to GET TO KNOW THEM, that you become discriminatory in your preferences. If you don’t believe there’s a huge racial problem among gay males, just count the number of times guys say “no asians” or “no blacks” on Grindr, versus “no whites.” Or just go to douchebagsofgrindr.com to see the kind of self-justified racism that goes on.

  31. Mark says

    I’ve only ever been attracted to black guys. None of you have presented ways yet to make penis attracted to non-black guys.

    Not ever planning on feeling guilty for that. Sorrrrry dudes.

  32. Nat says

    “I just want to thank Little Kiwi for his sane, consistent, and impassioned reasoning among these comments.”

    Kiwi hasn’t really employed reasoning though. He’s made numerous statements, none of which he has substantiated, while refusing to answer some very basic questions.

    “In fact, I think a lot of you are arguing against LK’s points not because of the existence of evidence to the contrary, but because you wish to defend your own prejudices. That’s exactly the same kind of behavior we see from homophobes when you point out their homophobia.”

    Then why are you here, exactly?

    You’re clearly not interested in any sort of respectful debate. Implicit in your statement here is the notion that the very fact that someone argues a particular point attributes to them the characteristics which you then condemn. Your statements can be boiled down into:

    “You’re only arguing that it’s not racist because you’re racist!”

    – Which has really nothing to do with the argument itself. At least Kiwi attempted to ameliorate his position with reference to sociological study. All that aforementioned paraphrasing of your argument does is prove itself, which in reality, proves nothing.

  33. says

    amen, Atomic.

    or the guys who have profiles that say things like “where are all the decent guys? i just want a great man to spend my life with. no blacks or asians, plz. be taller than 5’9″, have a job and a car, i really like blue eyes, and please no purses.”

    well, that’s why you’re single, chump. and that’s why you can’t find all the great decent men – you’re not one yourself and thus don’t deserve one.

    love is about reciprocal connections. not a shopping list of aesthetic wants.

  34. says

    Nat, your “basic questions” are baseless hypotheticals, and if you re-read what i said a few times (after taking some deep breaths) you’ll see that the answers to those baseless hypotheticals are actually in my comments.

    we get conservative women who are anti-woman in order to appeal to conservative males.

    we get conservative gays who are anti-gay in order to appeal to (drumroll please) other other conservatives.

    and in a white-worshipping culture, which we al live in, we also get people whose sense of beauty and self is greatly affected and impacted by the culture of White Worship that we’re all a part of.

    look at what anti-gay culture does not just to straight people, but to far too many gay people.

    it’s not that different to what anti-Colour culture has done to not just white people but non-white people.

    we get gay people who find their sense of self-worth based on how well they think they’re accepted/tolerated by straight society, and we do indeed get non-white people who (alas) feel driven to “triumph over their ethnicity” by finding self-worth in the acceptance of whites.

    it’s wholly unhealthy.

    non-white guys who exclusively like white guys have the same road ahead of them as the gay men who don’t want people to know that they’re gay.

    good luck having a free and authentic existence while still living according to the unchallenged societal preconceptions of race/ethnicity and beauty.

  35. says

    Little Kiwi, bravo.

    I often wonder how many of the men who virulently defend their desire to only be into white guys are white men? I would love to see some study done on gay men of color and see what percentage of them prefer white men as well?

    I was raised in a Cuban immigrant environment in South Florida. My family is pretty much Southern European looking (think Antonio Banderas)… with my mom being the freak blonde/green eyed wonder. Pale skin and light eyes and blonde hair were revered (look at any Latin American telenovela and you will see that the heroes and heroines are all white Latino, while the help is usually black, mulatto or mestizo). The idea of marrying up to “advance the race” was something I heard growing up, not to mention people who were attracted to a black person were derided and accused of enjoying “burning petroleum”. From my understanding, this sort of thing is very common in South Asian, East Asian and African American cultures as well. You want to aspire to whiteness.

    The gay male world is (to my eyes, at least) primarily white. The clientele at the bars is primarily white. The bar rags feature white (or white Latino) models with the occasional black man or Asian man. White men are not sexualized in such a limited way as Latin, Asian or Black men are. I am pretty much a middle class Manhattan white gay sophisticate in my tastes (I go to the opera, I like indie rock, I read)and yet because of my swarthy skin, I am treated in various ways by men that just plain feel offensive. I want to be thought of as attractive just like everyone else, but not for some exotic Latin fetish/fantasy someone has about me (i.e., I never ever ever go by “Papi” so why are you calling me that?).

    I once told some white guy who gave me the “I love Latin Men” speech “I love white guys because they look so cute on their yachts wearing their Brooks Brothers and drinking their gimlets with their friends from Vassar Muffy and Buffy” . . . and that shut him up.

    I am pretty much ashamed to say I am mostly attracted to white guys. I know it’s because it’s me being a product of cultural conditioning and I have been challenging myself more and more to broaden my attraction palate. Yes, I have my particular type (short, beefy/built, hairy, dark haired), but I have so seldomly gone out with that type, I’ve had to diversify or wither away a celibate eunuch.

    Lastly, I’ll end this rant with I’m also a short guy which has it’s whole ball of crazy and it’s just annoying to be single and dealing with preemptively being put into boxes all the time. I feel like I’m bending over backwards to work against people’s biases and have them get to know the real me, which is something I feel the average white, average heighted, middle class guy doesn’t necessarily have to do.

  36. Nat says

    Nat, your “basic questions” are baseless hypotheticals, and if you re-read what i said a few times (after taking some deep breaths) you’ll see that the answers to those baseless hypotheticals are actually in my comments.”

    No, they are not. Nor is there any coherent answer in your previous or subsequent comments.

    You make continual points about a white heterosexual patriarchy, a la:

    “non-white guys who exclusively like white guys have the same road ahead of them as the gay men who don’t want people to know that they’re gay.”

    But that’s not what I asked. I was deliberately non-restrictive in my question, and you have deliberately restricted your answer. Answer the question explicitly please. I’ll even modify it for you:

    What cultural factors are weighing in on a non-white man exclusively preferring men of a particular non-white ethnicity or ethnicities?

  37. says

    Nat – an explicit answer would require the actual specifics of those ethnic attractions, and how they are about them. what is their ethnicity, and what ethnic groups are they specifically attracted to and in what way.

    it’s not merely what you like, it’s HOW YOU ARE ABOUT IT.

    but, as usual, we have a white person coming on here with hypotheticals.

    re-read everything i’ve written after you walk around the block for ten minutes breathing deeply. your desire to argue is clouding your ability to read.

  38. Nat says

    “an explicit answer would require the actual specifics of those ethnic attractions, and how they are about them. what is their ethnicity, and what ethnic groups are they specifically attracted to and in what way.”

    Wait, I thought you answered the question clearly? And now you’re admitting you didn’t and you won’t?

    What does ‘actual specifics of those ethnic attractions’ mean, precisely?

    What do you mean by your ‘and in what way’ disclaimer at the end there?

    Is this what you mean:
    “it’s not merely what you like, it’s HOW YOU ARE ABOUT IT.” ?

    “but, as usual, we have a white person coming on here with hypotheticals.”

    Not that it’s material to the argument (and you were doing so well until you attempted to become personally condescending), but I’m not white.

  39. uffda says

    I here and now volunteer expensive gifts with obeissance to LIttle Kiwi when he permanently falls in profound and profoundly sexuaized love with a woman, any woman. All he has to do is stop thinking he likes men because you don’t have to “pray it away” , all you have to do is say it away.

  40. Nat says

    “Nat – an explicit answer would require the actual specifics of those ethnic attractions, and how they are about them. what is their ethnicity, and what ethnic groups are they specifically attracted to and in what way.”

    Sorry, I should add:

    You can’t disclaim a specific hypothetical as ‘baseless’ and then make a subsequent statement that you need actual specifics. I’ve provided both generalities and specifics, and you’ve refused to answer in either case.

  41. says

    The following two quotes from the article are SPOT ON:

    “You see, I grew up completely devoid any role models that I could physically identify with. I am a thoroughly Americanized Asian man, but I’ve always felt that when it comes to my identity, I am an army of one. I feel marginalized by the stereotypes thrust upon me, even defensive. The image I present – one that I believe makes me a serious contender in my social surroundings – I’ve carefully cultivated myself, without a face to base it on.”

    “Because sex is an aspirational sport. We’re hardwired to desire the likeness of success; it’s a remnant of our primordial survival skills mixed with pop culture. It’s why I have a huge crush on my neighbor who looks just like Ewan McGregor, because I associate his face with that of my favorite movie star. And it’s why Tim (the aforementioned pretty boy) suddenly was made aware of my sexual potential as a mate. He’s now been given context in the muscled form of an NBA superstar.”

  42. jmg says

    Since Little Kiwi won’t answer the question, I will appeal to those who praise him (and I agree with some of what he says):

    Are Asian gay men who are not into blacks racist? Are they worthy of this “wake-up call” that white gay men are receiving here? If not, why?

  43. Steve says

    You guys, you’re missing the most important piece here. Has anyone managed to find Yellow Peril’s A4A profile yet? I don’t care what race he is, he’s adorable!

  44. Jeremy says

    White guilt is really obnoxious.

    I thought you were on to something about being open to possibilities, because I think that’s the key. People who filter for themselves are really the ones losing out. But being petulant about the fact that they’re doing that smacks of jealousy from being rejected. It’s really not worth making a fuss over. They aren’t worth it; you could spend your time better.

    However, it’s hard to pay attention to that essential point because of your indulgent white-guilt. If you buy into the idea of social privilege you can’t exempt yourself by trying to be the champion of the colored. They don’t need a white knight and they don’t want one.

  45. BMF says

    Little Kiwi: amen!
    Atomic: you nailed it when you said that the reason that so many people want call it just a preference is because people are trying to defend their own biases.

  46. Eric says

    Everyone is entitled to their own preferences, and the people who have a problem with it are the ones who must feel discriminated against…so what, find someone who will love you and forget about the rest.

  47. jmg says

    should porn sites which cater to racial stereotypes like the submissive Asian and the black thug be banned? Should people who visit them be caled sick? Should they be shunned? Sent to counseling?

  48. Dildo Baggins says

    Keep fighting the good fight Little kiwi. The gay white male status quo will never address the issue of racism in the Lgbtq community unless other gay white men call them out and take them to task for it. If you say you are an ally to queers of color and are against racism, prove it, through your words and actions. And it is not just about hooking up for sex, AAPI lgbtq groups are the least funded of all groups, which will have a direct impact on the health and safety of asian queers; it is all connected to how groups that are on the margins of the gay community are viewed and how resources are allocated based on those stereotypes and misperceptions. And yes, internalized racism and homophobia needs to be addressed and discussed by queers of color in our respective communities. We should not be wasting our time explaining these things to defensive white queers who are financially benefitting from maintaining a white supremacist power structure.

  49. Markt says

    We are all prejudiced. We live in prejudiced societies and we can’t escape the effects. Granted, certain people appear less controlled by it than others.
    We also live in a sexist society – and we are all also sexist. We are on this site because we have a sexual preference. Why shouldn’t we seek to alter our sexual preference to eliminate the effects of our sexist society? Why is it different than a preference for a certain race?
    Attraction is an initial event that changes or disappears based on the quality of the individual behind the surface. I don’t think we can really argue with it. Although, I think all of these preferences can change over time or under the influence of the right circumstances. I don’t think it’s something we can conclude in advance that we will have any particular level of success.

  50. TJ says

    Do I have a preference? Hmmm. I’d probably say vaguely Mediterranean/Latin/Middle Eastern/dark. And hirsute. Maybe because I’m fair/blue-eyed/Western European/smooth – opposites attract? Aside – I have a not-very-secret crush on Sanjay Gupta – so handsome, and a doctor! And, okay, Jon Hamm, too. And dont get me started on Blair Underwood!

    So yeah, dark. Except for the times I’ve dated blondes. When I wasn’t with someone older. Or younger. I have never dated Asians, but probably because I haven’t had the opportunity, not because I don’t find Asian men attractive. Well, not all Asian men. Because I dont find all men attractive. And yes I went Black but still went back. But mostly, I’ve been with Caucasians. I am Caucasian, and Caucasian is what I “know.”

    Attraction is complicated, and different for everyone. It might be based on what you know, what you are used to, what you’ve had reinforced through experience. Sometimes, opposites attract. Sometimes, the exotic attracts. Sometimes, you see two people together who look like they could be siblings. I’m not going to blame people for their attractions, or lack thereof. I don’t think I should now date an Asian man to prove that I’m not a racist. Sometimes, these discussions can get way too political in the sense that people get demonized. If I only ever dated Latinos (and, in a perfect world, sign me up!), was only used to Latinos, had always had satisfying relationships with Latinos, and only popped a boner with Latinos, I don’t think it would make me a bad person to say, “I am only interested in dating a Latino.” I’d probably be cheating myself of wealth of experience by limiting myself so, but I don’t think that this necessarily would be proof that I am a racist. “Asians are unattractive” or, as the husband of a mortified friend once stated at a dinner party, “There is no such thing as an attractive Japanese woman” – well, I can see how that might be another story.

  51. albert says

    thank you little kiwi, alejandro, and everybody else for standing your ground and trying to talk some sense into these guys.

    i can’t believe how hard it is for some people to see that race is absolutely entangled with sexual attraction. or to see how disgustingly racist the gay community is.

    anybody who CATEGORICALLY excludes all men/women of any race (another or one’s own) does so with internalized prejudice against that race. you are pre-judging them based not on their individual qualities, but on preconceived notions about members of his/her race or ethnicity. this is the definition of racism.

    anyway, i know i have my own preferences as to what turns me on. but i acknowledge the prejudices embedded in those preferences and i try to overcome them by giving fair consideration to any man who approaches me.

    in the end, there’s only so much to be done about all the gay men who want “whites only” or “no blacks,” “no asians,” etc. but the rest of who see the racism in that will keep calling you out and shunning you for it. :)

  52. Jason 2 says

    Sexual attraction is not really something under rational control. Gay people should know that better than anyone. You like what you like — there isn’t a lot of choice involved in aesthetics, let alone aesthetics linked to something primal like sexuality. End of story, IMO.

  53. Jason 2 says

    And I’ll just say for the record that I do have “racial preferences” in terms of what I am sexually attracted to. Generally speaking, I am less attracted to asians and blacks, for example. But that is not to say that is an ironclad rule or something. Once in a while there will be one I am quite attracted to. And this is just purely on the basis of physical appearance. When you add in other elements of attraction (e.g., personality, which is a big one), trivial issues like race really just don’t matter.

    Anyway, does some kind of prejudice play into this aesthetic schema? Probably. But like I said, it’s not like it’s something that would prevent me from talking to a guy. I don’t say “no asians.” I could say “no black guys” just because it’s so rare for me to be genuinely attracted to one, but really that’s just not necessary. I don’t think it’s any kind of racism in that, it’s just the closed-mindedness that is really ignorant. Why not be open to the possibility?

    This is more a problem with categorical thinking than it is racism.

  54. TJ says

    To add to my earlier comment: Consider imprinting – the little duckling glomming on to it’s mother, or a mother substitute. Doesn’t matter if the substitute is an alligator (well, actually, in that case, I suppose it does).

    Consider paraphilias and fetishism. More imprinting, often at an early age. A powerful association with sex, pleasure, and an object/situation (please see “”The Owl and the Pussycat” for a brilliant, hysterical scene regarding such. Bombs away!). Very hard to unlearn.

    Absolutely, examine your life, engage in introspection. Question. Challenge. Ask yourself why you are attracted to x and y but not z. Confront your prejudices. Why could you never sleep with someone who is (fill in the blank). I’m pleased to say that I’ve been around the world, so to speak, if you get my drift – or at least much of it. I’m a better person for it, because it has helped me see the value in all kinds of people.

    But seriously, guys. Take the judgement down a notch. For whatever reason, sexual attraction is personal. It is not necessarily politicaly correct. It is not something we can always control. We get to decide who we sleep with. We get to follow what feels right for us depite what others think we should be feeling. If we didn’t believe that, we wouldn’t be posting here.

  55. Chaddy says

    @ TJ “For whatever reason, sexual attraction is personal. It is not necessarily politicaly correct.”

    I find this to be the most honest statement I’ve read on this comment thread. Everyone here has their heart in the right place; racism is an ugly stain on American, heck, on WORLD, history. But know your enemies, and your friends. Choose your battles wisely.

    Our brains are hardwired a certain way, and although we can choose who we date/court, we cannot choose who we DO and DO NOT find attractive, one way or the other. Sexual/emotional attraction knows no race, color, or creed, regardless of what we think we are attracted to most of the time. Even those of us who say we are not attracted to a certain race, etc, WILL one day find someone of that race to be attractive. It is a mathematical certainty, given the number of people we encounter on a day to day basis! Kiwi, I believe you should boil down your exhortations to the men here, to simply be open to that attraction, when it happens, regardless of their USUAL preferences. If you are asking for anything more than that, you are fighting a battle you will never win.

  56. TJ says

    CHADDY – titting for tat (and, hey, thanks for reading), Yes! Be open!!! I hated grapefruit as a child. Now, I love it. Butter made me physically ill. Now, the only reason I avoid butter is because of cholesterol. My father hated onions. I hated onions. Until I accidentally had some on a burger (cue sound of celestial “ahhhhhhhhh!”). I love cilantro, yet some people say it tastes like soap. Guess what! Research shows that that may be genetic!

    Be open! You may be hard wired, imprinted. Or you may just need to be open to expanding your horizons. But chill on the judgment.

  57. TJ says

    PS – I can’t help thinking that some of the racism rhetoric is not unlike the “you’re gay because you hate women” meme. For some gay men ( no names mentioned cough RICK), this may be true. But one size does not fit all. Learn to think critically.

  58. Yuki says

    I have to agree with Caddy. There’s nothing wrong with not finding the majority of a particular race unattractive; for instance, I’ve only been attracted to a few black men in my life. I don’t think it’s unfair for someone to, if this would hypothetically be on a hookup site (that is, based SOLELY on physical attraction), to say that they weren’t attracted to [insert race here]. Again, it’s a generalization for that specific purpose.

    Now, refusing to even consider an [insert race here] person is ridiculous, but not particularly finding the majority of [insert race here] guys that you’ve seen attractive isn’t negatively racist, nor is it positively. You can’t necessarily choose who you find attractive. I tend to find Asian guys and very pale guys attractive, whereas I usually don’t find many black guys attractive. It’s not me being racist; it’s me simply not being attracted to them. I feel it’s disingenuous to insist that no matter what, not being physically attracted to what you’ve seen of [insert race here] is racist and that anyone who feels that way is a horrible person.

  59. says

    ALL HAIL SAINT LITTLE KIWI. THANK THE HEAVENS FOR SENDING HIM TO SPREAD LIGHT INTO THE DARK MINDS OF THE WHITE MAN. I believe the “Little” is appropriate for the scope of your ranting. You have a valid point about society’s white-washing cultural norms, but instead of simply judging society, you attack the individuals/victims of this culture. Berating people is not going to cause them to get hard-on for you, sorry.

  60. Paul in Charleston says

    When friends used to ask me what MY type of man was like, I would say ” well, breathing and alive is the most important!” After that…short or tall, beefy or slim, dark or light, young or old, white collar or blue collar, none of that really mattered to me. Symmetry of body and facial features was/is more important to me than type of features. I can just as easily fantasize about Sanjay Gupta as I can about Jet Li, Blair Underwood, Daniel Sunjata (have mercy!) Jason Isaacs, Kevin Alejandro or David Wenham…but that’s just me and I don’t expect anybody else to be the same. I just think that those who limit themselves to a precise particular type are losing out in life. A young colleague of mine is like that, and I am not surprised that he is STILL alone and hasn’t had a relationship that lasted longer than a date or two. He also does not have a very high IQ so I wonder if the two are not correlated.
    As a tall blond Finnish-American who worked as a model for 25 years I can tell you that I have heard my share of men telling me they are “only into REAL guys” …what’s that supposed to mean? And now that I am 60 I find that for many 20- or 30-somethings I am completely invisible, and I am not talking about at a bar or any other dating scene but just in everyday life.

  61. says

    the funny thing that happens when this subject comes up is how readily a great number of white gay men are to prove to everyone how little they know about sociology and the differences between orientations and concepts of beauty and attraction.

    from the imbeciles who can’t understand the difference between being gay and “not being into Asians” to the intellectually dishonest folks who say “oh, yeah, well, what about non-white people who like ____ , what about THEM!?”

    insecure little buggers, aint ya?

    it’s amazing how people will ignore evidence in order to keep their own personal prejudices and biases unchecked. congrats, boys – you’ve effectively become just like the anti-gay Right: so damned proud of your chosen stance and opinion that you refuse to accept sociological reality. good thing you’re a bunch of nameless, faceless Anonymous commenters, and unlikely real people who have any presence or impact whatsoever in the real world. keep your biases in that closet with you.

    “i’m not into you because i’m not into Asians”

    congrats. you’re as sexually hip and with-it as my grandmother and she died at age 96. werk.

  62. nosh says

    After having read all the diatribes, I get back to, do I believe it is morally wrong for me to not hire someone or not give a service to someone based on ethnicity? I believe so.

    Do I believe it is morally wrong for me to not be attracted to someone because they have features I dislike? (Features common to a particular subset of humans which are easy to “label”) No, its my desire.

    Do I believe its possible to train myself to like those features or that I was already cultured to not like those features? Maybe, but since it isn’t immoral for me to have a preference (in my opinion), I feel no great pressure to change what *I* like.

    However, is it moral for me to announce those preferences using those labels to the world at large in sex ads or on websites such as these? No, probably not. I can see how openly stating my preferences in a general way can be hurtful and support self-loathing. We all need social acceptance. I know that if I accidentally flirt with a straight guy I’d prefer he say not interested to “I don’t do gay”.

    So, I personally pledge not to ever reject anyone using labels. But, I do not see a reason that I am morally obligated to find one particular race’s features as attractive as another’s.

    That said, I think the Asian pictured is hot, is that the blogger or is that Lin (I am not familiar with either)?

  63. says

    think about this, those of you who are refusing to accept reality: if what you’re not into in a person is their ethnicity then HOW IS RACE NOT A FACTOR?

    it’s not their personality, it’s not chemistry – you dont like that they’re ASIAN. that they’re BLACK. it’s not the person you’re not attracted to, it’s THEIR ETHNICITY.

    right. because they all look the same to you, i guess, eh? classy.

    here’s what i personally find the most amazing thing: when you let a guy know that you’re not into him because of the way he’s expressed his racial preferences….he gets PISSED OFF.

    truly. seen it a billion times over the years. some dude: “no fats fems asians or blacks” – he messages you. you say you’re not interested, and explain WHY – ie, how repulsive it is to read their arrogant racial “preferences”; and they get defensive. and angry.

    “Hey, dude, don’t judge me, that’s really uncool. it’s not my fault, i can’t help whom i’m attracted to!”

    yeah, well. same here. i can’t help not being attracted to small-minded boys with racist sexual preferences. sorry, it’s just my preference. i can’t help it. you’re not into asians and blacks, and i’m turned off by people who aren’t into asians or blacks.

    sorry. just my “preference”

    😉

  64. says

    Not to mention the white guys who exoticize men of color and can only see them through a particular sexualized lens (black thug, submissive Asian, fiery hot-tempered Latino). It’s like their hard on is a back handed compliment.

    I think white guys are not interested in examining their sexual biases because they don’t have to. They are the cultural majority in gay culture and they have the preferred ethnicity and if they prefer each other, it’s very easy to pretend this doesn’t affect other people (and I mean this as a big cultural trend . . . no, two white guys coupling up does not personally hurt me beyond stirring up a little envy that SOMEONE coupled up).

    Also, what are these features that are common to every member of a race that people don’t like? So all Asians, or blacks or Latins (or Whites for that matter) look (or act) alike? Really?

    I remember when I had a house on Fire Island and my housemates one summer made cracks like “I haven’t bottomed in so long I should date an Asian,” “Of course he’s a bottom, he’s Asian!” or congratulating a friend of theirs for picking up a black guy at tea because that means he’ll be getting some BBD. I had a boyfriend one summer on the Island whose housemates called me Taquito like it was the funniest thing ever. I’m not Mexican, so I failed to see the humor. And if you called one of them out on any of these things they would get all high and mighty.

    Basically, idiots like this are walking around with a sign that says “Sane people, stay the hell away from me.”

  65. TJ says

    >it’s amazing how people will ignore evidence in order to keep their own personal prejudices and biases unchecked. congrats, boys – you’ve effectively become just like the anti-gay Right: so damned proud of your chosen stance and opinion that you refuse to accept sociological reality<

    Well this seems a lot like the pot calling the kettle beige, dear KIWI. YOU ignore biological imprinting. You ignore how reinforced behavior becomes reality, essentially immutable. You politicize desire, just like the right. You demonize preference and characterize all of it as racism, as if becoming enlightened is all it will take to pop a boner in the “right” circumstance – just like a reparative therapist. You ask others to re-read your posts so that they can see your point. Do you ever reread other posts? Do you ever consider a different point of view? Call it out as racism when it is racism. But there are other possibilities. Sometimes, I think what you want most is to be seen as right, with no other possibilities. And you do have your acolytes. There are times I think you walk on water, and there are times I think you are too close to the mud.

  66. says

    actually, TJ, i’m not the one politicizing or “racial-izing” desire.

    this has nothing to do with me “wanting to be seen as right” and everything with wanting truth to be seen as TRUTH. i’m a white man. i have no real stake in this ‘issue’ – what i do have is an absolute desire for truth to be seen as truth, and not disregarded because some people feel more comfortable reinforcing a lie that they keep telling themselves.

    becoming aware of the sociological factors relating to different ethnicities will not “instantly” change anything – it will, however, be the first step toward people shaking off the preconceptions we are subversively taught by society and actually FREEING ourselves from these limiting mindsets.

    i always consider “different points of view” – but not all points have merit, or validity. this is why i’ve been saying what i’ve been saying – the arguments in support of, uh, “defending racial preferences” are actually without merit.
    that’s what should lead intelligent people to understandings – viewing both sides of an argument and having the intellectual integrity to see what has weight and what doesn’t, and having the humility to accept truth as truth, not say “well, let’s agree to disagree” or “well, that’s your opinion” simply because one’s personal ego overrides their ability to accept reality.

    there is the fetishizing of ethnicity. there is even the fetishizing of RACISM – cuckold videos where a white woman is taken roughly by a black man in the presence of her husband (whether real or staged).

    there are people who are color-blind when it comes to sex and love. there are people for whom color is a turn-on. there are people for whom color is a turn-off, and these are all the product of how society has taught us to not only feel about “other ethnicities” but how it’s led us to feel about our own.

    if you’re not attracted to a person because they’re asian or black then you are unable to see the PERSON past the ethnicity.
    you’re not seeing Lisa or Tom – you’re seeing A BLACK. AN ASIAN.

    the turn-off is the colour of their skin. the turn-off is their ethnicity. there is something unaddressed in you, relating to that ethnicity, if you see people of some ethnic group as being some “collective” that are equally unappealing to you.

    that we live in a culture where racial divides and tensions are still very-much alive it’s frankly stunning that people are ignoring it because they’ve convinced themselves that the only thing that denotes racial prejudice or bias is a Lynching.

    but let’s get one thing clear: if you have a profile that says “no asians”, you’re pretty much a racist. because you have a preference? no. because of the way you are ABOUT your “preference”.

    people are very comfortable advertising such preferences online, or on grindr: ten bucks says none of you would have the balls to walk into a bar with a “no blacks” shirt.

    “NO ASIANS PLZ” – why say that? your time on Grindr is so precious that couldn’t possibly just click “block” or ignore? you can’t say “i really like intelligent fit guys” you have to say “no asians”? REALLY? because those awful asians are just ruining your life by messaging you? *massive eyeroll*

    here’s the truth, folks: cultures and communities are becoming more diverse, we’re integrating into each other’s socioeconomic and cultural spheres at a greater rate every month, every year, every generation.

    those who continue to cling to, and defend, not just “preferences” but the WORDING AND MANNER IN WHICH THEY ARE ADVERTISED OR SHARED are going to look more and more like outdated sexual dinosaurs.

    “i’m not into black guys” will sure enough, and justifiably, be met with a reply of “really? they still make guys like you?”

  67. TJ says

    KIWI:

    One’s first in-group, one’s first socializing factor, is one’s family. They are people “like me.” I am affiliated and feel affinity, firstly, to people like me. If my larger social circle contains people who are also like me, that affinity would become reinforced. If I am therefore not attracted to someone who doesn’t look like me, it may be better to characterize this as an artifact of socialization and geography, not necessarily racism, with all of its negative connotations and references to power differential. If I am attracted to someone not like me, if I find someone different, unusual for me, even (heaven forefend!) exotic, and we hook up and it is fabulous, going for “different” is reinforced. I’m going to seek out that experience again. I mentioned a preference for “darker” men, even though, in reality, I’ve been attracted to all types in the real world and have been open to experiences. Many things are erotic in the moment in the real world. When it comes to fantasy, one goes to what works. I was reinforced (oh baby) over and over back in the day by a Latino partner who was the best sex partner I ever had. Everything about him, I found erotic, from the difference in our eye and skin color – I marveled at the contrast of my honeyed alabaster to his deep caramel – to his charisma to his voice to the way he spoke Spanish to his oh none of your beeswax. I associated much of his erotic qualities to the physical. Is it at all surprising that men who look like him reliably turn me on?

    Attraction is specific and personal. If I am on a hook-up site looking to get off (that is what those sites are mostly about, yes? I honestly wouldn’t know), the quickest way to get what I want and not what I don’t with regard to what I know will “work” for me would be to state my preferences explicitly. Those sites, to me, don’t seem to be about people in the real world as much as they are about types and fantasy and physical attraction. They don’t seem to be about relationships with real human beings. They don’t seem to be about political correctness or deep social issues or who should win an election. It’s all about what one finds erotic. I think it is sad that people could be so specific, because I enjoyed the diversity in my past. But in some situations, people let the little head think for the big head. And the little head can sometimes be picky.

    I don’t doubt that racists post on these sites. The guys who would say, “I don’t want a friendship with Asians” or Blacks or Mexicans or whoever– yeah, go for the throat. You have my blessings.

    Le sigh

  68. says

    OK, let me try once more:

    TJ, I agree with your assessment of hookup sites, but I think it’s very sad most gay men today are on them . . . precisely because they are fodder for fantasy and not real relationships. I was one of those “open to more” profiles on there because I felt that was the only way I was going to meet someone . . . and that I had to take my clothes off to do it (and I would beat myself up that if I didn’t measure up in any number of ways I would remain unloveable).

    A therapist friend told me that he had an Asian client who expressed frustration at going online and reading over and over and over again how undesireable he was. Why do people feel the need to say “no this or no that” rather than stating their preferences in more productive/constructive ways? (“Tall guys turn me on” rather than NO SHRIMPS?)

    Lastly, the word exotic is a tricky one for me. It is basically implying that white men are the norm and the rest of us are colorful variations. It’s very annoying that I can be exotic to a white man but the reverse cannot be true because I grew up seeing white guys on TV, in movies, in magazines, and as the characters of books I read. I am so keenly aware of the power imbalance when I hear the word exotic. I feel like I cannot be myself, but rather I am expected to fulfill some castanet playing fantasy for the object of my affections. It makes assumptions about who I am (I don’t dance salsa very well, but I can talk about Proust . . . I want to be thought of as sexy for that).

  69. TJ says

    ALEJANDRO – thanks for posting. Aside – my partner described in my last post had been a music major at university. He played piano and sang beautifully. He played and sang at my sister’s wedding. So yeah, he was more than the physical, more than “exotic.” As a matter of fact, objectively speaking, he was hardly handsome. Not even close. And even at his young at the time age, he had a bit of a pot belly. Still, he made me weak in the knees. Sadly, he is no longer with us. We broke up because he couldn’t stop sharing his unique beauty with others; telling me that I needed to get checked out at a clinic was the final straw. He contracted HIV shortly thereafter.

    Here’s is something to think about: To me, he was so “exotic” because I saw myself as boring, bland, beige – unworthy of notice. Not anyone’s idea of a standard, the “norm.” That’s right, even white boys can have issues. Despite “white privilege.” He dazzled in comparison. He made ME feel exotic. My skin color, in my mind, went from fish belly white to honeyed alabaster. I’ll always thank him for that.

    Guys are visual. We objectify. And we can be sadly insensitive. I only know of these hook up sites as referenced on other sites (e.g., someone linking to “D-bags on Grinder” or whatever that is). I’ve never joined one, and can’t see how that would ever happen (monogamously partnered, hopefully to the end). But I absolutely can understand how constantly seeing “No Asians” (or whatever) would be demoralizing. I absolutely agree with both you and KIWI that being positive about what you do want rather than negative about what you don’t want would be preferable, and should be the standard. But that’s not bloody likely. And it’s not just gay men, but all men, when it comes to “the little head.”

    Example: Years ago, a female friend was a dancer at a (ahem) “gentleman’s” club. She usually made a ton of cash. I thought she was quite attractive. Exotic in that she was a “natural” redhead (don’t ask how I know for sure). She would horrify me with how she would be coldly and brutally rejected by some guys she would approach for a lap dance. Her breasts were to big or too small. She was too pale. She was ugly.

    The little head. Making everyone a big jerk.

  70. says

    TJ,

    Thanks for the response . . . that was really beautiful to read and helpful for me to take into account.

    I felt like I had to get off all those sites because I didn’t like what it was doing to me. Yes, I have my visual turn ons as much as the next guy, but even if I am having casual sex, I want the experience to be respectful and I wasn’t capable of that on those sites and the way I behaved on them and how I was triggered and how I felt I was being seen (or ignored). Yeah, it’s harder to get laid now . . . but I actually go on dates. I may not have sex with those guys, but I think I am connecting in a way I never have before and making an effort to bring all of me to the table.

    Not to mention, how many perfectly lovely guys have I rejected because they didn’t fit into whatever cockamanie idea of attractiveness I had in my head that day.

    I love how you explained how your former partner helped you see yourself differently. I feel that way about the white guys I’ve been with. I think pale skin with freckles is really beautiful and I’m always amazed at when these guys lament that they can’t tan or how white they are (I guess we all have our issues, it’s true).

  71. TJ says

    ALEJANDRO – yeah, back in the day, I made some poor choices, even though I, too, wanted even casual encounters to be respectful. Ironic that ending a relationship with someone who had made me feel so special because he could not refrain from being casual (and unsafe) helped me increase self-respect and the right to be respected.

    I wish you well as you continue to move forward in your journey. And Proust!? Damn! I’m not even familiar with the Cliff Notes!

    Peace.
    JT

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