Comments

  1. Tone says

    Ignoring for a second the inherent sexism of so-called “beauty pageants” it is clear that this woman is a victim of blatant trans phobia. For shame that this should happen on
    Canadian soil!

    Unfortunately Canadian law does not protect trans people from this type of discrimination, a deficiency we Canadians must work to remedy without delay.

  2. says

    …well, Canadian LGBT laws *do* include transpeople – the issue i think is that this isn’t an issue that’s really come up yet – hence the response was a confused knee-jerk, not a logical one.

    that said, while i’m sure there are no rules about “cosmetic surgeries” – there could be. maybe should be.

    Canadian beauty pageants are such a non-event that they’re not even televised anymore.

    so, i hope a good honest thorough dissection of the pageant and its policies comes out of this.

    one thing is certain, though – girl looks AMAZING! hot damn.

  3. Tone says

    Hi Littlekiwi I don’t know that trans people in Canada do have the protection you claim, although I dearly wish they did. A federal bill spelling out those protections died in the Senate when Parliament was dissolved prior to the 2011 election that gave dear leader his slim majority. Can you provide any case law or a Supreme Court decision citing Charter protection? I don’t know that the rights of trans people have evolved that far yet, which is a damned shame. I believe we are making progress though, even in dear leader’s current climate of shame. Certainly there is a patchwork of differing laws by province right now.

  4. says

    well, that’s sorta the thing – it’s still on a “case by case” basis – the charter of rights and freedoms protects LGBT people – not just “gay”.

    like with our LGBT-military stance , since 1992 LGBT people can serve openly in the military. i’m pretty sure that in some other countries it’s only gays, not transpeople, who have this protection

    but there is indeed workplace and housing protections for transpeople, and in a few provinces reassignment-surgeries are covered by the healthcare plans, (Go OHIP!)

  5. RyanInSacto says

    Mike, why are you referring to her as “he?” She has undergone both hormonal therapy and sex reassignment surgery. She is a she.

    And why don’t you go ahead and post pics of yourself? We’ll all critique them and let you know whether we think you’re going to age well or not.

  6. John says

    What does this have to do with gay people? Gay men do not seek to become women. Towleroad, please stop promoting stereotypes and linkages where they don’t exist. Stop implying that a story of this type is of any special interest to gay people.

  7. RyanInSacto says

    John, there are millions, if not billions, of websites for you to visit if this one does fit your particular interests. If you don’t think the struggle for transgender rights is related to the struggle for gay rights, then don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Happy trails!

  8. says

    i’m a gay man who proudly stands alongside my trans brothers and sisters.

    any gay man who doesn’t is a coward and deserves every ounce of anti-gay prejudice he’ll ever experience in life.

    “stop promoting stereotypes”?

    Stop being a wimp who’s afraid of the baseless knee-jerk responses that bigots give in reference to stereotypes. in short – grow a pair.

    the stunning thing is that this MTF transwoman, despite surgery, still has bigger orbs than the cowardly gay men who seek to belittle her.

  9. Francis says

    She was removed from the pageant because the pageant rules supposedly state one must be naturally born female to enter the competition. Hopefully, she sues and wins. Trans-women are women and shouldn’t be discriminated in this way.

    BTW, you can LEAVE John if this is a subject matter you’re uncomfortable with or unaccepting toward.

  10. Mic says

    Hey Troll John: Your masters are calling- your attempt to sew division between LGBTs is a laugh. Is that the best you Koch Whores have got? Playing ‘agent provocateurs’ on gay blogs?

    Pfbfbfbfbfbtttt….

  11. says

    personally, dislike for these pageants aside, i don’t think ANY contestants should be allowed to enter if they’ve had cosmetic surgeries.

    personally, i think it demeans the supposed concept when She Who Paid For The Best Rack wins.

  12. MICHAEL says

    RyanInSacto, I’m with you 100%!!

    It seems that so many of those in the LGBT community who identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual forget it was not long ago all of us faced far more persecution, bias, discrimination etc. for simply being attracted to others of the same sex. We’ve come a LONG way, given its now the majority that support equal rights and the end of discrimination for the LGBT community… or at least the LGB part of it. Those in the transgender community seem to lag in gaining the same recognition as the rest of us under the LGBT umbrella.

    For me personally, it’s hard to understand what a transgendered person must go through… but I wouldn’t question for a second that what they feel… their gender identity not reflecting the gender of the body they were born… is anything but real.

    There will always be an ignorant, bigoted, simple-minded part of the population who will discriminate against, name call and worse- use physical means to express their inner hatred against those they don’t understand. But for the life of me, to see members of our own community taking such action… even those small and thoughtless off-the-cuff comments or deliberately choosing not to use the proper pronouns. Why?

    Miss Talackova looks every bit a woman to me. I’d be willing to bet she’d be pretty convincing to most, in the absence of knowing this one detail about her. For all the guts it took for her to get this far, it sucks to an organization to make like she never did exist.

  13. Gregv says

    My first reaction is surprise since they have nothing to gain by disqualifying her. This pageant used to be a big deal but has faded into irrelevance (and ceased being televised) as society has moved on and the pageant seems determined to remain as anachronism of 1950’s thinking around womanhood.
    But isn’t the discrimination in such pageants a much larger issue than just disqualifying transwomen? Anyone with a penis can’t enter (that’s half the population), a 30-year old is too old, anyone who’s married is disqualified, a flat-chested woman would never be considered without seeing a plastic surgeon first, and butch women, dwarfs, albinos and big noses need not apply, no matter what the official rules don’t say.

  14. jayson says

    Well remember Tyler McCormick, he was met with hostility in the leather community for running and winning IML as he is a transitioned female to male. But he ran, won and represented amazingly throughout hit year!
    I hope she gets media attention, and the chance to represent as she deserves!

  15. Paul in Charleston says

    I really like her response “I’m a woman with a history” as opposed to transwoman or transgender. She has absolutely no shame or embarrassment about that past either. Let’s hope she is the catalyst in getting that outdated pageant rule thrown away…or are they afraid “women with histories” would be too fierce and unfair competition? :-)

  16. David Hearne says

    Shockingly, I agree with Kiwi about the cosmetic surgery thing as my opinion. However, these are privately owned businesses which conduct these pageants and there are all kinds of pageants, some more narrowly defined than others. There are black beauty pageants which make an overt effort to include a broader range of body shapes, there are plus size pageants, there are drag pageants, leather pageants, etc… One simply does not have a right to participate in a contest simply because he wants to.

    We, the gay community have fought long and hard for the rights of life and property. We have claimed neighborhoods as our own, and built some here in Florida from the ground up. We have our own bars, clubs, resorts, apartment houses which while they rarely turn away others make it quite clear what their preference is.

    We need to respect the private property and freedom of association of other people as well. Sometimes, you get your feeling hurt.

  17. Luke says

    I believe it has been read into the canadian charter of human rights that trans people are included but it seems to be a big grey area. It is not explicitly protected like sexual orientation.

  18. SayTheTruth says

    The thing is that probably when entering the contest they ask you if you have ANY surgery performed that modified her external appearance. So, WHY A TRANS should be allowed to jump over that rule while CIS women CAN’T? Should they set a rule that says: OK, it is ok for TRANS women to have as many surgeries as they want or like, but CIS can’t have any. Or should they allow EVERYONE have surgeries, making the contest being about the best surgeries available in the market and the most costly ones, instead of “inherited beauty”.
    Anyway, beauty contests are silly. I don’t care what they do.

  19. VC c/o 94 says

    I believe Miss Universe bans transexuals from competing so they may have handed down this decision to the Canadian franchise holder. If she had (or did in case she is reinstated) won, she may not be allowed to compete in Miss Universe. Some European countries have this problem because they allow contestants who are younger than Miss Universe accepts.

    I would think that Donald Trump (he part owns Miss Universe) would want her to compete for all the free publicity he could generate for the pageant telecast.

    Personally, I think she should be allowed to compete in Canada and in the international pageant if she wins the chance to represent Canada.

    Now, on to Mr Gay World in a couple of weeks. Canada has a wonderful contestant there.

  20. Mary says

    I agree that this woman looks incredible, and if I ran the pagaent I’d have no problem with her entering.

    But when I read this headline my first thought was “They think they have problems now? Wait till Little Kiwi hears about this!” I mean, a flood of emails with “werk” at the end of them (and I still don’t know what they heck that means.), multiple requests to post their URL, accusations of being closeted transvesties, questions about whether Mommy or Daddy accept who they are.

    Those pagaent owners don’t know what trouble they asked for. I can imagine them offering to actually INVITE transgendered people to compete in the pagaent if someone could just get Little Kiwi back on the Towleroad!

    (……Just kidding, Kiwi, my man. Now you can tell me to off myself again!)

  21. well-I-guess says

    She is pretty. She has all the beauty several paid surgeries could afford. Wouldn’t be fair to the other surgery-free contestants though. It’s about her being a tranny, but having surgeries made.

  22. jaragon says

    He looks extremely feminine so unless he revealed his birth gender I doubt anyone would ever confuse him with a man- so why did he reveal this fact-I mean isn’t the entire point of going through this costly and painful process to live your life as female?!

  23. says

    What will be interesting to watch is if Ms Talackova will pursue legal recourse as the pageant’s decision once again opens up a fissure as to how one defines gender and how this may act to discriminate against those individuals who for all intensive purposes are the genders they insist they are despite events and circumstances, such as their birth which are often beyond their control.

    http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2012/03/miss-canada-yanks-transgender-contestant-vows-not-to-give-up/

  24. Gus says

    I’m with John on this. It is offensive to equate transsexualism and crossdressing with being gay. That is a stereotype.

    We can support trans people and crossdressers and be friends and the like, but it is a lie to suggest that gays and crossdressers are one group. In fact, it contradicts everything we have been trying to teach the world since 1969 and earlier. “LGBT” is actually a reactionary concept, not a progressive one.

  25. jason says

    Trans people do not represent gay rights. They are the complete opposite of gay rights. They are running away from being gay. Furthermore, their physical transformation indicates a fetishistic attraction to the stereotypes of gender – eg long flowing hair for a woman.

    As for Miss Universe, there’s nothing nice about it. It’s sexist and appeals to straight guys, many of whom are homophobic. We in the gay community shouldn’t be supporting contests that are demeaning to women despite our natural tendency to do so.

  26. Rick says

    @Gus and Jason I personally believe that transsexuals and transvestites should be lumped together with effeminate gay men, because they all DO have in common their idolization of women and the modeling of their behavior on women. And that is demonstrated by the fact that most of those defending the inclusion of the T in LGBT are effeminate gay men.

    I mean, seriously, most effeminate gay men have no more of a male identity than most trans people do, so what really needs to be happened is that they need to be purged from the group of men, including myself, who both have a male identity and are sexually attracted to men.

    Our attempts to gain equality and be accepted socially by the mainstream are impeded as much by being associated with effeminate gay men as they are by being associated with transsexuals or transvestites, and so as long as that association remains, we will be adversely effected by it.

    So I think what we really need is a new “classification” system and a new movement that makes it clear that effeminate “gay” men are no more a part of who we are than transsexuals or transvestites are.

  27. Rick says

    The effeminate queens of the world don’t realize that they’re a negative stereotype and they make life harder for masculine gay men like me who are not defined by our sexuality.

    When I was young and I was caught blowing our maid’s son, my father forced me to dress up like a girl and perform oral sex on him because of all those effeminate limp-wristed queens out there.

    I had to wear pink panties, a training bra, and he would address me as “Princess” and if effeminate gay men hadn’t done been such queens then maybe he’d have let me dress like a boy when I was blowing him.

  28. says

    Here’s a grand idea – if more men who feel that they’re “masculine” grew a pair and Came Out, and were Visible and Vocal advocates for LGBT people on a daily basis, maybe their “complaints” would end.

    as is, it won’t happen.

    why? because these complainers, under their many aliases, actually have smaller balls than this sexy trans woman, who had her testicles removed.

    yup. that’s why Closeted Cowards take issue with transpeople. despite physiology, they have bigger balls than the wimpy closet cases who complain about them.

    ever notice how gay men who complain about “effeminate gays” are never Out? this is because no comfortable masculine gay men have a problem with guys who are perceived as “effeminate” or “visibly gay” , or exist in some other variant of the gender-perception spectrum.

    only insecure wimps with capers for testes take issue with guys that society would label “effeminate”.

    the good news: they’re so wimpy they’ll never come out. so we’re blessedly free from having to deal with them in real life. they all sit and complain from inside the closet, and it sure is annoying, but rest assured – they’ll die in there. their life is their own prison.

  29. Gus says

    Effeminate gay men are not transsexuals and do not want to become women. Transsexuals are women and are not merely an extreme form of effeminate gay male. They are 2 entirely different groups. To lump the 2 together is to disrespect both. I understand why the deceitful defenders of “LGBT” would like to make this about “effeminate gay men” vs. “masculine gay men” but it isn’t. Gay men – masculine or effeminate – are men. And transsexual women are women.

    Stop promoting lies and stereotypes in the name of the myth of LGBT.

  30. says

    Personally, as an openly-gay man, I don’t know why any of you are talking about “lumping together”.

    Distancing yourself from ______ in order to save your own ass, or win the favor of, some bigoted person or group is the epitome of cowardice.

    I’m an openly gay man. I stand in solidarity with all LGBT people, no matter where they exist in some amorphous concept of “masc or femme”, no matter what their ethnic background is or their form of gender-expression or identity.

    an attack against a transperson is an attack against a gay person, and a bisexual, and a lesbian. any attack on someone because they deviate from any form of “expected Norm” is an attack on EVERYONE who deviates from any expected norm.

    and real men understand this. cowardly boys distance themselves from others in order to hide.

  31. Gus says

    Then why don’t you include Tibetans, labor unions and Appalachian mine workers in the alphabet soup as well? Are you a coward, distancing yourself from them and leaving them to face their oppression alone?

    You don’t have any argument as to why “LGBT” makes any sense. You just assert it as if it is a fact of nature. And then you call people names if they dissent. I hope people read your comments and see, perhaps for the first time, that LGBT is not based on anything other than a kind of religious decree and a lot of abuse for anyone who challenges it. It has no logical foundation.

    Last point: Just b/c we don’t classify ourselves as LGBT doesn’t mean we hate Ts or wouldn’t support them as friends. There are a lot of friendly groups out there that gays support – women, Dems, labor, etc. – but that doesn’t make us part and parcel.

  32. H8Str8s says

    @LIttlekiwi
    I understand your deeply held position. I imagine you are rather young. I have lived long enough to learn that just because we are all oppressed doesn’t mean we have anything else in common. Lumping us together feels to me like ghettoization.
    While inclusion is nice some places I came out and went to my gay community center to meet (meat?) gay men. Not women; I don’t have sex with them. Not trans males because I like to swallow and they can’t ejaculate. I don’t see what is wrong in wanting a space just for ourselves. I don’t see anything wrong in networking to help eachother as well. Civil rights are not a zero-sum game. More rights for one are more rights for all. So it makes sense to join forces in this way. But to be uninterested in joining force does not make us evil. It makes us in dissagreement with you. Unless you think yourself some sort of god, then you should realize your opinion is just one of many viewpoints.
    Also what you do is call “ad hominem.” it is to attack a person rather than his argument. Many people do it and it is a logical fallacy.
    Bigotry is a biological imperative. You yourself are being intolerant of intolerance. People have a right to share a dissenting viewpoint without being called names for it. Is it not so?
    I do appreciate your passion. I would like to see it more judicialy applied.

  33. says

    anyone who thinks that “you’re being intolerant of intolerance” makes intellectual sense only proves me right.

    your complaint, “H8STR8″, that LGBT people being lumped together makes it harder for you to attend “gay places” where you’ll be able to ingest male ejaculate is puzzling. You don’t like there being an LGBT-inclusive community, as opposed to a strictly gay male one, because to you being gay is just about finding sex partners? That’s odd. I outgrew that sort of mindset by my 19 birthday. Despite your claimed age, you’re still only caring about finding people to have sex with? That’s….odd.. so I’ll just leave it at that and be thankful I’m not related to you.

    i suppose my family is insane. two straight parents, a straight sister, me the gay son, and yet we all stand in solidarity the the trans communities.

    Now, people are of course allowed to share a dissenting opinion – i’m not sure what your complaint is, though. I’m not stopping anyone from showing everyone how baseless and unintelligent their chosen opinions are.

  34. H8Str8s says

    You really don’t understand the idea of being intollerant of intollerance?
    O.K.
    I didn’t say I didn’t like LGBT inclusivity. I don’t understand it. You seem to think it is a logical grouping. I don’t see it. I have suffered more injustice at the hands of lesbians who knew I was gay than any other source, since I became and adult. That seems odd even to me but it is true.
    My position is not that it is bad per se, even though it still feels like ghettoization to me. My position is that I don’t see the “naturalness” of the grouping.
    When I was a young man, I was looking for sex with gay men. I am not ashamed of that. I don’t understand what seems odd to you about that, or that I like to swallow. It is simply a turn-on for me. No ejaculate equals no turn-on.
    I am a misanthrope. I don’t seek out anyones company other than my companion of twenty years. I was stating that “When I came out” I was looking for that and didn’t understand the grouping. I was sincerly confused. I still am.
    I don’t see why you can’t disagree in a civil maner. Why is it you can’t be polite in the way you disagree? You seem, because of that, to be a mean spirited person.
    I feel for you.

  35. H8Str8s says

    @littlekiwi
    As far as I can see, going to a gay community center is for one of two reasons; to meet people for sexual or political activity. Not everyone is politcaly active. I am not. I don’t go to such communit centers anymore because of that and the fact they all like to use the “Q” word which I object to. For more on that see my post at the end of the ohio suicide story so you can attack me personally there as well.
    “Unintelligent and baseless” There you go showing your insecurities again. What, did you not finish high-school or something so you are insecure about your intelligence? That is what it looks like to me. Just saying.

  36. Rick says

    @Gus It depends on how you define being a man. If you are using a strictly anatomical definition, then you are correct–anyone who does not want to trade their penis in for a vagina is technically a man.

    On the other hand, gender is also about identity. And when I am around an effeminate gay man, I absolutely do not feel that I am in the presence of a man. I feel as though I am in the presnece of a gender-confused individual who is anatomically male, but who is trying very hard to behave as much like a woman as possible, without actually changing their anatomy. They even use the female vernacular to refer to themselves and each other (“she”, “girl”, Miss______, “her”, etc.)

    Their friends tend to be women, their cultural icons are all women, their interests more closely parallel those of women than of menl; they almost always side with women in disputes with men What, then, is male about them–and what differentiates them from transsexuals–other than the fact that they still have a penis? Seriously.

    You say that transsexuals are “women,” but that notion is based entirely on what these individuals say about their own psychological state, not on any genetic evidence or any other kind of scientific basis. So I have great difficulty accepting that they are completely different from effeminate gay men who basically identify with women rather than men in every possible way, albeit without wanting to go so far as to actually change their anatomy.

    Could it be that some of them don’t want a sex change simply because of the trauma and expense involved rather than because they really feel like men.

    You are saying they are totally different in kind, but to me, it seems more like a difference in degree…

  37. Rick says

    @H8STR8S You cannot reason with the Far Left, any more than you can reason with the Far Right. Both groups are full of insecure people who take psychological comfort from adhering blindly to a set-in-stone ideology that instructs them on how to think in every situation……which frees them from having to think for themselves and face the world the way it really is, in all its complexity. It is their insecurity that drives their intolerance and hostility towards anyone that disagrees with them about anything…..and both tend to resort to personal attacks when confronted with anyone who does not adhere to their ideology.

    Most of the “gay” men who want to include transsexuals as one of us are, as I say, effeminate…..and one reason they want to do so is to try to continue to legitimize effeminate behavior as the gay norm. They are deeply fearful of a change in the male culture that will make homosexuality acceptable–but only if it is not coupled with effeminacy……which is where we are headed, as more and more straight men “loosen up” their sexual mores and their emotional loyalties.

    The culture of effeminacy is doomed in the long run…and that is threatening to a lot of gay men who have invested so heavily in its continuation.

    Hope that helps you to understand the motives of some of these people.

  38. says

    H8STR8 – i hear you loud and clear. to YOU, going to an LGBT Centre, or gay village, is a place for you to find partners so you can consume male ejaculate.

    that’s lovely. and by lovely i mean pathetic and disgusting. I just turned 30. I have no idea how old you are, but I can safely say that I’m relieved I don’t share your mindset.

    You may continue to “feel for me” – but remember, I’m not the one miserably walking around looking for semen to drink, and blaming trans people and lesbians for my inability to do so.

    you’re very odd.

    and rick, as we all know, is a closeted wimp with a father who never loved him. and that’s why he’s angry at trans people and men he deems “femme”. his dad didn’t love him, and he blames “fems” for the fact that his father was an unloving bigot.

    the fact that he can’t SHOW HIMSELF proves that he’s nowhere near the “masculine man” he wishes he was, and his father wished he was. one more sad closet case, destined to die alone and forgotten.

    not that any of us will shed a tear.

  39. HonestMe says

    I SAY ANYONE WITH ANY TYPE OF PLASTIC SURGERY, BOTOX, ETC…SHOULD BE DISQUALIFIED AND NOT ABLE TO ENTER. PAGEANTS SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT NATURAL BEAUTY, PERIOD.

  40. Book 7 says

    To those thinking she should have been disqualified for having had “cosmetic surgeries”, do we know she’s even had breast implants? She was on hormone therapy since age fourteen, she could have grown her own very nice pair. And no one is judging what is in her bikini bottoms, are they?

  41. aina says

    Uhm… IF we look at this differently, IF a natural born woman enters a gay beauty pageant and goes to the finals, and eventually has the running to win AND the officials find out, will this be the same issue?

  42. anonymous says

    This is extremely unfair to real women who were actually born women, who have real breasts, real hips and real hair. You know what? James Brown was right when he said “this is a man’s world”.. it’s amazing how men get more privileges in society, like this event happening, viagra on the market for men’s erections- but they can’t cure BREAST CANCER for women with REAL breasts to save theirs!! Now don’t get me wrong, she is very good looking, and I agree with people changing themselves– but for self- improvement though- not to impress anybody else! I have many trans friends who are transwomen, HOTTER than this woman, HAVE NEVER HAD PLASTIC SURGERY, whose hair is all real that they grew out themselves, DON’T even need to compete in beauty pageants to feel beautiful or show the public that they have sex appeal, strong confidence, and high self esteem!!! I have quite a few F-M trans friends who aren’t trying to compete in the MR. UNIVERSE pageant, and don’t need to hire GLORIA ALLRED to get their point across and deal with all the discrimination that they face daily.. The fact of the matter is that she LIED on the application and being a beauty queen is a JOB. As a beauty queen you are seen as a role model and public figure who is supposed to be TRUSTED, whose words to the public is important and influential. Beauty pageants were originally created for beauty with a purpose- to show young ladies that being beautiful, educated, talented, respectable and prominent is better than being another statistic, barefoot and a pregnant/stepford wife who only cleans house, cooks and pleasures her man- beauty pageants are NOT silly. Every single Miss Universe pageant titleholder has had something special about them that helped them win. Obviously the majority of them have a talent, otherwise they couldn’t have competed successfully on the national stage. Now, I don’t agree with anyone who has had plastic surgery of any type entering these pageants- anywhere in the world- especially not Miss Universe- the pageant with the best and most coveted crown on the planet. I don’t even agree with little girls competing in pageants- hence the Jonbenet Ramsey case.. This is because little girls look up to these women and they will believe it will be okay to get plastic surgery, believing that plastic surgery will make their peers, the public and men fall in love with them. We as humankind already have a problem with society, mainstream media, and celebrities setting a terrible example and making young ladies believe that the sexier they look, the more jobs and privileges in society they’ll get, that behaving badly is okay, having a criminal record is okay…. what’s next? Are they going to allow women who have had abortions and children before to actually compete too? What about the good women who are all real and don’t look fake and promiscuous- have real hair, real nails, real breasts, a real butt, menstruals and can bear children competing? I apologize to anyone if I sound like I am sending mixed messages and getting off topic..

  43. anonymous says

    Now, not to sound bigoted, but rules are rules- outdated or not, just like the Constitution that America has. And as a proud member of the LGBT community, a proud and feminine bisexual woman, I AM NOT discriminating against the community- worldwide, just stating my opinions.

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