Comments

  1. DrJWL says

    Well OK! I don’t know what they’re selling here, but I think it was a twink porn site, right? Well whatever, anything with guys kissing is a good thing.

  2. DrJWL says

    LITTLEKIWI do you want a phony Benetton ad where guys of all colors and ages frolic together? I could care less, and I am definitely not going to pretend that it would make any difference. Meh, who cares, we’re all too old for Abercrombie anyway.

  3. SOLUS says

    Are we looking at the same clip? I thought it was nicely done Weber is the BEST and alway has been! Homoerotic is in the eye of the beholder. I’m beholder that thought it was homoerotic in a very cool way!

  4. says

    if you “could care less” then it means that you do in fact care.

    unless you meant that you “couldn’t care less” which would mean that you don’t care.

    so, which is it?

    either way, you’re one more white person who doesn’t see reality. congrats.

    the world is diverse, the country is diverse, and beauty comes in many forms. unless you’re an abercrombie exec, in which case only White is beautiful, and a throw “Colours” are thrown into the background mix for pittance.

    yeah, it does make a difference. as those “colored doll picture” tests prove over and over again, and more clueless white people ignore – we live in a world that subtly and not-so-subtly makes it very clear what Beautiful Is, and that does indeed need to change.

    it’s not about us being too old for it – it’s about youth seeing this and having it impact their sense of what constitutes beauty and worth.

    wise up.

  5. Sargon Bighorn says

    To all the racist bigots: how about YOU start your own clothing store and then you can have all the black and yellow guys you want in your ads. NOT EVERYTHING in the world is about race. It’s an ad for clothing, not a social statement about race. Time to grow up.

  6. says

    I don’t know what constitutes beauty . . . i think it is an individual thing in the eye of the beholder . . . and that sort of thing.

    For me, this was pretty freakin’ beautiful!

  7. says

    “all the black and yellow guys”….. and then you call me the racist?

    classy.

    it’s not an ad for clothing. there’s barely any clothing in sight.

    if not everything in the world was about race then this ad would have reflected diversity. that it doesn’t shows that is, indeed, very much about race.

    time to enter the 21st Century, idiot.

  8. Joe says

    Not that I disagree with Little Kiwi here, although it’s an ad campaign that has worked for A&F in the past. As business people they’re entitled to try what works for them again.

    But I just don’t know how he finds so much time to make multiple comments on every post down to the dissection and rebuttal of other posters paragraph by paragraph. I supposed it’s impressive.

  9. DanSwon says

    that was super gay. i enjoyed it. lighten up, it’s not about race. i don’t understand who this advert’s aimed at though, apart from guy men. it just looks like stylish gay softcore erotica.

  10. says

    of course this campaign’s worked, know what else has worked for other companies? playing up prejudices and bigotries.

    these “not everything is about race” comments make me sick, frankly.

    we have a young man killed due to preconceptions about ethnicity. we have racial profiling, we have NOM going out of their way to make gay people feel that black people are their enemy, and then along comes good old A&F with yet another ad campaign where a bunch of white boys frolic together with no room for any beautiful men of colour in the bunch.

    just because a company is entitled or allowed to do something doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.

    “it’s not about race”, says yet another white person. excuse me while i puke.

    http://gawker.com/5896863/university-of-texas-student-paper-wins-most-racist-trayvon-martin-cartoon-contest

  11. David in Houston says

    A kiss on the forehead is not a “gay kiss” by any means. Sorry, it just isn’t.

  12. Sargon Bighorn says

    YOUR Race is NOT the center of the universe. If you’re left out it’s HIGH TIME YOU started your own clothing company. STOP hating on the WHITE folk. Every time some race other than WHITE is not represented it’s taken as a racial slam. Your bigotry is sickening. STOP telling WHITE folk how to live, how to advertise, how to market. Time to get off your big black butt and do some work. START your own company. DON’T expect others to do YOUR work for you. Shut the hell up about White folk promoting White folk. Don’t like it, don’t buy it. But whining and bitching about being left out makes you even more infantile than you already are. GROW UP and FACE UP to the real world.

  13. AZSafado says

    Have to say that while the ad does not make me want to go out and buy A&F, it does somehow make me hungry for chicken.

  14. Jerry says

    Wow LITTLEKIWI, chill out. You seem to have a lot of extra time on your hands. Maybe a white dude stole your job or something. I dunno, but anyone who has enough time to waste like you do flaming out commenters on a blog ought to find work in a more challenging field. If you get what I’m trying to say.

  15. says

    Bruce Weber is VERY strange character. When he was young he was a male model who looked very much like thebuff bioys he photographs so lovingly. Nowdays he looks like a Teddy Bear with half the stuffing pulled out.

    While the homoeroticism of his work is flagrant he lives with a woman named Nan Bush as his beard.

    His Chet Baker documentary “Let’s Get Lost” is truly teriffic. I alos like his Pet Shop Boys video for “Being Boring.”

  16. Mic says

    Littlekiwi is not a racist. Don’t be a moron.

    That said:

    If loving this is wrong…I don’t want to be right…

  17. New-new says

    @KIWI:

    YAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! Co-sign. On all of that.

    to all those people saying that “not everything is about race”:

    You are a part of the problem. To marginalize and trivialize the issued faced everyday by people of color is to uphold white supremacy. To think that you as white person have the authority to tell people of color what is or is not racist as if you are the more objective party is a prime example of white privilege. Racism exists as a zero-sum game where if you’re not a part of the solution, you’re a part of the problem. There is no sitting on the sidelines. Clearly many here are blinded by white privilege.

  18. Zlick says

    So what if they’re all white? They’re also all young, all male, all smooth, all attractive, all things that this particular company thinks appeal to its particular customer base. So what?

  19. Lucas says

    NEW-NEW, Not everything is about race!!! Little Kiwi comes on and comments on every post and somehow pulls racism out of every single story on this blog! its a damn commercial for god sakes get over it!

    I don’t marginalize the issues that any minority groups face (blacks, gays, latinos), but to find racism everywhere must be exhausting! give it a rest! F*#K!!

  20. says

    I’m white, Sargorn. So thanks for proving your own racism by telling me to get off my “big black ass”. It’s big, but it’s white.

    This ad continues A&F’s trend of saying “White Is Beautiful Above All Else” and it’s pathetic.

    I’m just one white dude who is as sick to death of hearing white people say “oh, this isn’t about race” just as much as I am hearing straight people think that LGBT equality issues “aren’t a big deal.”

    of course you don’t think they’re a big deal, they don’t affect YOU.

    pathetic.

    in the last few weeks…. Trayvon’s Murder. NOM’s pitting gays against blacks. racist and stupid young fans of The Hunger Games films being upset that….the black characters are black…

    http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made

    and now more of this.

    sorry, but some of us live in the real world and are rather tired of companies continuing to promote a barely-veiled culture of White Worship.

    http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made

  21. New-new says

    @Lucas:
    Yet again, another white person denying the experiences or racism of people of color. White privilege rears its ugly head again. In this case, this deals with white being perceived as default and thus objective. The same way white, male, and heterosexual are perceived as objective and default.

  22. says

    pointing out the ongoing white-worshipping legacy of Abercrombie & Fitch is not “finding racism everywhere” – it’s pointing out what should be obvious to everyone with a functioning brain and even a base knowledge of sociology.

    we have NOM revealed this week – they intentionally set out to turn the gay communities against the black communities.

    and then this.
    http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made

    yup, these poor young fans just can’t relate or shed a tear if a black dies.

    http://gawker.com/5896863/university-of-texas-student-paper-wins-most-racist-trayvon-martin-cartoon-contest

    and this clearly isn’t about race, is it?

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/11/oh-abercrombie-fitch.html

    nor this, right?

    you know who says it isn’t about race? white people.

    you know who says marriage isn’t a civil right? bigots.

    some of you should be utterly ashamed at how little you’ve learned from your experiences of being a minority.

  23. Topher says

    I want to see a similar video of Andy Towle and some of his hot friends. I’m so hard!

  24. Craig says

    Yeah, that’s the way I kiss my straight best friend. So in that sense it’s half gay.

  25. David Hearne says

    KIWI- I realize this is your cause and passion, or perhaps your fetish, but even the Big And Tall catalogues don’t have fat or femme guys. It’s where old models go to die, except for Gregg Avedon who has been a god and idol since the days of International Male.

    Please explain what you mean by “Asians”, since Asia is a continent not a race and you can find many races in Asia. Or are you being racist and simply referring to all Asians as Mongoloid people? Israelis, Lebanese, Persians, Arabs, Kurds, 7 kinds of East Indians, a couple of tribes of plains Indians, a whole lot of hybrid Siberians,and the donor population of the Celts and Vikings are in Asia.

  26. Mary says

    I agree with Kiwi on this. Abercrombie and Fitch is selling an image of upper middle class success. And all we see in these ads are white people – ALL the time. What kind of message does that send? I don’t think anyone is asking that they set aside a certain percentage of their ads for minorities as in “20% of our models have to be black, 15% have to be Hispanic,.etc…” But if every so often they had more than one color the message of diversity would be made. One doesn’t have to be politically angry about racism or even politically liberal to see this.

  27. Parvenu says

    Let’s clear up a few things here for the historian, Mr. Ehrenstein. Mr Weber was an attractive youth, but he was no model. He has made a series of intensively personal short films about his childhood which are stunning. Bruce Weber is indeed married to Nan Bush, but has never, ever said he was straight, so beard, he be not.
    The man as a way of looking at life that is so beautiful and certainly his still photography as well as videos capture that.
    Now, this ad, which is about a minute too long, has way too much posing for me. Is it brave? On some minor level, it’s nice to see a group of hot young guys wrap themselves around one another.
    It is laughable and sadly predicable that someone would bring up race. I know, why aren’t their any Eskimos in this ad? Where are the beautiful older men? Why is everyone brunette..complain, complain, complain.

  28. says

    Parvenu, thanks for proving me right. Continue to laugh off the reality that this company ignores the beautiful ethnic makeup of America just like millions of straight people will continue to laugh off our collective journey for true Equality.

    yeah. i “brought up race” – and i gave more than a few recent examples of racial b.s. polluting our culture.

    you pathetic white idiots are free to continue ignoring it. won’t save your gay assed, in the end.

  29. kiwiisamazing says

    KIWI, you’re amazing. like JOE above, i wonder how on earth you find time to comment here & on queerty (not to mention keeping your own blog) as much as you do! you inspire me–but, alas–these mortal coils!–i have a full-time job and stuff. my guess is you either don’t need to work for a living or don’t need to sleep (nonsomnia). i’m so glad you’re on our side, tirelessly fighting. i also feel like you need a bigger, more-visible-to-the-mainstream platform than just gay blogs….

  30. Avender says

    It’s laughably predictable that some bring race into every discussion, even more laughable that he declares himself smarter than everyone else and privy to the “truth” that others cannot see.

    But I suppose AF makes themselves an easy target for using Bruce Weber to exclusively market their image. When a company has had the same advertising campaign for the last two decades or so, it can get monotonous. Weber, a one-trick pony who predictably rolls out “gay porn to kids” advertising, certainly makes the company seem like it has some sort of devious agenda. May it’s just cause they found a trick that works – sell something that’s almost like porn to the masses. But hey, the guys are hot and quite beautiful, no matter what culture or race you are.

  31. uffda says

    KIWI has nothing to do, he’s spoiled rich and accountable to no one. That’s why he’s here all the time, and in long multiples. He’s taken it as his only job to, yes, sometimes enlighten, but mostly to scold, harrangue, badger and hideously insult anyone who doesn’t agree with him. His substance can be well-meaning, but his style always stinks of the sewage he heaps on others, which is something so extreme that he frequetly seems borderline sociopathic.

  32. new-new says

    i’m team LITTLEKIWI all day.

    the marginalization and erasure of the racial problems present today does nothing but perpetuate white supremacy.

  33. PDX Guy says

    Just went through the small outdoor mall near my apartment and saw that all the Abercrombie stores had closed (A&F, kids and Hollister). I live in mostly white suburbia, if they are failing here, I wonder how their business is going.

  34. BEAHBEAH says

    Their advertising actually keeps me out of their stores. Their ridiculous and unrealistic portrayal of male beauty is just boring. I want to see some variety. Every man in their ads blends together. Not to say that other companies don’t hire fit and attractive models, but most of those ads feature the models… oh, I don’t know… ACTUALLY WEARING CLOTHES.

    And it goes right down to their clothing. I am 5’8″ and weigh 140 pounds. I can walk into any clothing store in the US and fit comfortably in a size small or even an extra small. In A&F, their equivalent to a small is a LARGE and sometimes and XL. What kind of body complexes are these a-holes trying to give people?

  35. new-new says

    @ UFFDA:

    so how should he deliver his message to be palatable? i say F*** that noise. People of color have tried forever to deliver the message in a nice way for white people to no avail.

    i’m done playing nice. i officially give no f***s about white people feeling on the matter. this s*** is racist in how it erases people of color.

    to all of those saying that we’re bringing up race and to “stop making things about race” i must say that you are perpetuating white supremacy. you, perhaps not consciously, are upholding institutional oppression.

  36. kiwiisamazing says

    UFFDA, i dont agree w/ the “borderline sociopathic” and other comments. dealing with the racism, xenophobia, biphobia, and anti-obese and anti-poor-and-working-class attitudes amongst our gay brothers can be maddening, esp. when you work so hard to enlighten others, as KIWI does.

    I’m with NEW-NEW: TEAM LITTLE KIWI

  37. William says

    Sorry to sound like a ditto-head, but to all those who said that was not a gay kiss, I agree. That was the first thing I thought when watching the video.

    On the other hand, the blog post said it was a man-on-man kiss. Well, it was a kiss. And it was man-on-man. So I guess that’s fair.

  38. Joe says

    I didn’t say it’s “not about race.” I said something to the effect that this is always what they’ve done and it’s worked. It’s always been what Bruce has done as well for the most part. And that whether you like it or there is no law against a business carrying on this way.

    And how do you know what color I am?

  39. says

    “But hey, the guys are hot and quite beautiful, no matter what culture or race you are.”

    easy to say when they’re all white. as we all know, the continuing culture of “no blacks or asians” is alive and well.

    we’re all expected to find White beautiful. because that’s what society says is beautiful.

    it’s a shame the ads don’t feature guys who are “hot” and “quite beautiful” no matter the different ethnicities they are.

    then we’d be dazzled by comments like “hey, that guy was really sexy…you know, for an Asian”

    or the old favourite: “I’m never into black guys, but that guy was sexy!”

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/10/work.html

  40. says

    Quick question:

    How do we know that LittleKiwi isn’t part of NOM’s plan to create division amongst gays and people of color?

    On the point of the little video: Very enjoyable. Very…Enjoyable!

  41. SayTheTruth says

    If that is a gay kiss, and actual gay kiss would be called pornographic.
    Homoerotic maybe.
    But yeah, in GOD’S ‘MERICA all touching is homosexual.

  42. J Dub says

    This is a marketing campaign targeted to their assumed customer base just as FUBU/FB Legacy have their advertisement targeted at urban African-Americans. Race has and always will be an issue in advertising, just as gender, class, and sexuality are. You won’t see a guy in most Victoria Secret ads. Does that mean some guys don’t want to wear panties? No. It just means they’re directing their marketing to a certain demographic. I can’t be mad at Abercrombie for not targeting me to be a customer. If you want me to buy your clothes it’s not an advertisement that’s going to get me to be a customer. If I like the clothes, whether Abercrombie, FUBU, or Vickie’s Secret, I’ll buy them.

  43. says

    everyone, just watch this video.

    rest assured, i’m not in it.

    people need to wake up and realize how much What We See affects what we think.

    it’s because of things like this ad campaign that people continue to think that black = totally deserved to get shot while walking in a gated community.

    educate yourselves.

  44. says

    and JDUB, your point makes no sense.

    FUBU, like BET, was borne out of a community being ignored by marketers. I’m sure some of you folks don’t even realize that FUBU stands for “For Us, By Us”.

    there are no male models for victoria’s secret? that pathetic “example” would only make sense if A&F was clothing designed solely exclusively for whites at the expense of all others. It’s not, even though in terms of marketing it completely is.

    educate yourselves.

  45. TomJck says

    While there isn’t enough positive representation of gay ethnic minorities in the media, how anyone can project that A&F are saying “white is beautiful above all else” is beyond me. White is their target demographic – no?

    But I’m curious about one thing. For those of you out there who are an ethnic minority, how did this ad make you feel?

    Are there any other similar images in the commercial media that show primarily ethnic minorities and less whites?

    We can’t always tell how someone else feels about something they deem so important. Racism is alive and well, and it’s hard not to confuse that with the fact that minorities will always be represented less than the majorities – and that’s not always racism.

  46. Marco says

    I fail to see anything homoerotic in the image. It looks platonic; and could very well be two straight men. Homogenized? Yes. Homo-erotic? Not so much.

  47. Boone68 says

    “Since the start of the initiative, we have seen marked improvement in the diversity of our in-store staff. We continue to work at this and other aspects of our initiative, but here are a few key facts as of April 30th, 2010 that we are proud of.
    Our in-store workforce, as a whole is 50.22% people of color
    Our in-store models are 48.44% people of color
    Our in-store managers-in-training are 41.04% people of color”

    http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/careers/diversity.html

    Seems pretty reasonable to me. Little Kiwi, do you know something about AF that makes you disagree with this?

  48. J Dub says

    LittleKiwi, I am educated, by both college and the street. I do know what FUBU originally meant, and IF I’m not mistaken, by “us” means African-American. If that’s not racist I don’t know what is. My Victoria’s Secret reference was just another, as you put it in quotes, “example” of targeting to a customer base.

    As for you saying I made no sense, I disagree. I think it’s you who simply can’t understand logic because your thoughts are over-crowded with anti-racism. All of the businesses I mentioned use advertisements to target a certain people they desire to be their customers. That’s what businesses do. Does Walmart target the 1%/mega-rich?
    No, they advertise to the lower and middle classes.

    LittleKiwi… YOU aren’t looking at the bottom line of what advertisement is. It’s a way for a business to make itself known. Abercrombie is using your rants to sell goods just as much as that video. The more you mention their name, the more power they have. So whether you call them racist and so what if they are? Obviously hot white guys are who they want buying their clothing. I may not be a hot white-guy but their gym shorts are really comfortable and well made. I’m gonna keep buying them.

    So sorry that all you can see is race in the situation.

    Who’s the most obvious racist here? LittleKiwi

  49. Anon says

    The production value of the piece is excellent.

    Abercrombie & Fitch has never tried to be all things to all people.

    Would people be upset if a FUBU ad featured only black people?

  50. J Dub says

    ANON, I wouldn’t be. As a proud owner of both FUBU and Abercrombie clothing, I say buy what looks and feels good. Forget the labels, forget the advertisement, buy what you want to buy. We’re supposed to have a free market and you littlekiwi are a disruption to that system by telling them how they should run their marketing/advertising campaigns.
    If people don’t want to shop there they won’t. Not because you told them Abercrombie is racist, but because they just don’t want to.

  51. says

    you know what? you guys are right and i’m completely wrong.

    Abercrombie & Fitch is clearly made for, and by, the same type of people who think that “no fats fems asians or blacks” is an acceptable and non-douchey thing to say in an online profile.

    it’s targeted to young white people, and young non-white people who want to be white and gay people who don’t want to be gay.

    i was wrong. the campaign utterly works to draw in that specific demographic of people who like to be told what to like, what to wear, how to smell, and how to blend in.

    power to you all.

  52. iawl says

    @LittleKiwi– I’m with you on your point, and I understand you are angry, BUT– dude you are coming across as so condescending and harsh. Could you have possibly said “Educate Yourselves” one more time??? God– that is so pious and off-putting. This is NOT the way to convince people of anything– unless all you want to do is convince them that you are arrogant as hell, condescending and have too much time on your hands. Your lack of filter here just doesn’t make sense to me. Instead of the passionate, informed and sensible guy you usually seem to be– you come across all wrong here on this one and your point gets lost. I think you are the real deal– a passionate, well-intentioned, educated and caring advocate for equality in all forms. But this is not the way to advocate for anything. The people who agree with you are already on board– I am one of them. Though it is their right to advertise however they want, I agree with you completely that A & F is ridiculously wrong to keep pursuing this tact and that they are definitely part of the problem. I feel you on that. But your method on this particular posting is having the exact opposite effect on those you are seemingly trying to convince.

  53. says

    and no, FUBU meaning “for us by us” is NOT racism – as it’s an empowered response BORNE of an already racist culture.

    it’s not racist when it’s a phoenix born from the ashes of prejudice and already-ruling racism.

    nice fail, white boy.

    right, i’m the most “obvious racist” because I call out the ongoing white-bias of this company. nice try. good to know your parents money sending you to college was a complete waste.

  54. J Dub says

    Perhaps instead of getting people of non-Caucasian ethnicity to NOT buy their clothing, you get them TO buy their clothing. This would show that their customer base is not as they thought. With letters and included receipt copies, I’m sure they’d get the point and provide advertisement that reflects who are buying their product. Show them an increase in revenue from other than white, athletic, men (who seem to be the majority of their customers), and maybe they’ll include them in their advertising.
    As for what you are doing LittleKiwi, you are furthering the divide and reducing the number of other-than-white people buying from them. Your tactic is counter-productive. Dr. King would say “fill their stores, ride that bus that “they” don’t want you to”. Make them see that their advertising to only white guys isn’t working, with money. Show them that you WOULD BUY MORE of their product if they include “minorities”. Letters from a bigot and racist mean nothing compared to that of a persistant customer.
    Open your mind, see alternatives to just being loud, and put your money where your mouth is.

  55. Joe says

    If you think that FUBU was some kind of fashion emancipation proclamation maybe you should follow the money.

  56. Joe says

    In addition – Your calling people “white boy” especially when you’re white, reveals a lot more about your own pathology than an empathy towards other people. If you really wanted to be all-inclusive and “color blind” you’d quit the polemical tone of your comments and stick to facts.

    I know it pains you to treat people with whom you disagree with respect. It does me too. But you’ll make your point with a lot more people if you do.

    And I say this as a friend who often agrees with you.

  57. says

    well, actually, i thought it was rather obvious that A&F was the clothing label of choice for young white gay men who think that it makes them look straight, because they’ve not yet learned that there’s nothing more “new gay” than an A&F ensemble….

    and JDUB, i suggest the opposite – more white people calling out this company’s bias.

    you know, sort of like straight people boycotting anti-gay businesses.

    yeah. exactly.

    IAWL, i hear you completely. 100%.
    it’s a frustration – i’ve had this conversation so many bloody times, and heard the same factually and intellectually incorrect ‘rebuttals’ for so long, it’s bloody exhausting.

  58. iawl says

    @Little Kiwi.
    10-4, I get it. You are 100% on all your facts on this one and I too have had days where my passion and utter frustration got the best of me. Keep fighting the good fight, man. You do have the right on your side. “The truth can never be wrong, even if no one hears it”– Gandhi

  59. J Dub says

    First of all “whiteboy”?
    I am NOT white. I am NOT African-American either. I’m Lebanese. So go shove that up your racist ass.

    Thank you ever so much for being racist against me in your own post so that people can see you truly are being the biggest racist on here.

    So, you’re saying reverse-discrimination isn’t racism, that it’s just a response to racism? Nice way of saying since they were racist first, now we can be.

    And last of all, thanks for bringing up my parents who haven’t paid a dime for my college. Nice to know you think you know me so well based on the fact that I oppose you and not business.
    Learning politics, economy, and business has gone to waste for me?
    On the contrary, It’s allowed me to see more sides to a situation than one. Unlike you, I can see how their ads work.
    You seem so wrapped up in race that you can see how businesses build and keep a customer.
    I’m disappointed in you. You are the worst kind of racist. You’re one that SEEKS division and exploits it for personal recognition.

  60. Gary says

    I’m not too old for A&F, I’m too wise.

    The question of whether it’s racist is an interesting one. What is does is play on notions of white privilege, status and class to establish desire in the potential consumer. In that sense, it reflects the racism inherent in our culture past and present. It is what it is. I’ve noticed no one questioned whether it’s sexist or not. It also objectifies the male body in a way that used to be reserved for women. Instead of our culture becoming more equal by raising our standards for humanity, it is interesting to note that we’ve achieved equality among the sexes not by raising up women, but by lowering men.

  61. bierce says

    Please, A&F and Bruce Weber, change your hot fratboy muscle-jock fantasies from all-white to multi-cultural for the good of all mankind! We beg you!

  62. Heybuster says

    I’ve enjoyed reading all of the comments on this thread but I’ve come to the conclusion that the only commenter being small-minded and rude is the little kiwi. He seems like a really unpleasant fellow to be around.

  63. J Dub says

    Racism can only be overcome through education and socialization, not because a clothing company adds a new race to their ads. Sorry, with every post, littlekiwi, you make yourself more and more out to be the racist you claim to hate.
    But its ok to be racist against whites in your opinion because they were racist first?
    It’s okay for Victoria’s secret to advertise only to women because that has nothing to do with race only gender?
    It’s ok for FUBU to be racist because African-Americans need to have their own goods because they were held back for so long?
    Are you living in the 1950’s?
    Civil-Rights have taken us a long way.
    Affirmative-Action worked.
    It’s time for people like you, littlekiwi, to step back and let people be who they are, promote their product as they see fit, run their businesses as they see fit, and for you to express your right to remain silent, because everything you say can and will be used against you.
    You call those of us in opposition to you in this case to be ignorant, uneducated, and wrong.
    Well, I submit that it is YOU, who has taken this advertisement and made it a platform on which to further spread racism.
    Stop being a bully you bastard. By bastard, I don’t mean that you are born of illegitimacy of marriage, I mean bastard as in your beliefs are illegitimate.
    If you want equality of race stop trying to divide.

  64. Chip says

    Loved the video. You critics who want to make everything into a race issue can go make your own videos and include as much diversity as you want. It is beautiful to me.

  65. Gio says

    J DUB – If you think the casting of that commercial had nothing to do with the constructs of race and beauty you are seriously deluding yourself. But then that’s kind of the point I guess. And the band played on…

  66. uffda says

    TJ – you are a bad person LOL, watcing quietly on the snide side, licking your chops. Meow indeed. I laughed.

    Isn’t it interesting the facets of trouble and reward KIWI gets into? There’s too much underbelly to his “good” fights to keep me near his fan base any longer – for a while now. An odd torn feeling…but he is too vile too often. Ruins everything. If you can keep the baby go ahead, but I have to get rid of the bathwater at any cost.

  67. MrJ says

    LITTLEKIWI you are pretentious and self important and really quite silly. Quit trying to make something out of nothing. People who can think for themselves are not impressed.

  68. See, Not racist says

    I watched several times. One of the guys is not as white as the others. Maybe Italian?

    Oh, and wrestling requires four balls, not two, unless you’re wrestling with yourself, in the shower, in your clothes. And what was my point?

  69. J Dub says

    Please don’t misunderstand me, I wish their ads included more diversity. I just know that they have extensively researched who their customers are. They direct their marketing towards those that might buy their product.
    LittleKiwi, are you one of their customers?
    If not, why should they market to you?
    Why should you care?
    Would you actually buy their clothes if advertised towards any other demographic?
    Probably not.
    So your opinion is nothing to them other than an additional mention of their name, which history has proven, that only contributes to their agenda of brand name recognition.
    Congrats to you for thinking you’re doing what’s right, when in all actuality you’re doing what they wanted you to do: get them mentioned,talked about, and doing their viral work for them.
    Your ignorance has helped them.
    Congrats LittleKiwi
    It’s funny how you

  70. anony6 says

    Thank you Kiwi!!!!!

    There is nothing wrong with the ad, the problem is who the ad is coming from, which is A&F. Had Calvin Klein made the ad, it would not have sparked a debate on race, or at least one on this scale.

    A&F’s consistent overt exclusion of all men outside the “white frat boy” image is attention grabbing. When a company becomes characterized by that type of attention, anything they do that confirms that characterization just draws more negative attention to them. The company becomes so associated with its negative characterization that the very acknowledgment of the company through say advertisement also invokes the negative sentiments trailing the company…regardless of the ad material.

    That is where A&F is right now, and rightfully so. I certainly won’t be buying anything from them. Support for gay rights does not give anyone a pass on racism.

  71. Leonard says

    NOM doesn’t need to do any heavy lifting at all when it comes to pitting blacks against gays. Gay men who are not POC loathe having their privilege pointed out. Or having to face race as an issue.

    The reason people have been piling on Litlle Kiwi (who has been one of the only bright lights in this racist thread) is because gay men who aren’t POC or their allies will do anything and everything in protecting “white is right.”

    NOM doesn’t have to do anything really. The homophobia in the black community and the virulent racism in the gay community will always keep the two divided.

  72. GetLYourFactsTogether says

    J Dub, last time I checked most of Lebanese were WHITE race, unless you are from a small non white minority within Lebanon. Maybe you meant you are not GERMANIC/NORDIC/PINKISH type of white, but that doesn’t make you from other race. Whatever, IT DOES NOT MATTER in the end of the day, but at least don’t confuse country of origin/ethnicity with (now the almost in disuse in biological matters) term for “race”.
    Sometimes overreacting and seeing racism everywhere is so tiring. Racism is claiming one “race”(old school with that) is “superior” (old concept) to other “race”. Other things resemble that, but are not exactly the same, like ethnocentrism, classism, and a long list of etceteras.

  73. x man says

    Thats a Kiss???!!! WTF…on the forehead. The rest of the clip look like an AD for Corbin Fisher’s site.

  74. TJ says

    UFFDA – that meow came from a different TJ . If I did post, I’d probably agree with his point, but not necessarily the rhetoric.

    Advertising is absolutely deliberate in its imagery. A and F absolutely has a specific image, consistent in the advertisements. What one sees, and sees exalted, absolutely affects what one considers favorable and positive. Absolutely, studies have shown that minorities have an understanding that to be American means to be White/Caucasian. Advertisements, tv shows – all media, really, send messages, not only through what they show, but also what they don’t. And media is instrumental in forming opinions about what it means to be an American, and especially the favored type of American.

    I remember meeting the boyfriend of a female friend as an undergrad. We were Psychology majors, he was Business. He joked, “You guys learn psychology to help people. We learn it to use against them.”

  75. gregv says

    I think my friends and I are pretty much living as the post-racist generation, at least within our own social circles.
    I see a video like this and I see four hot guys. It doesn`t occur to me what color they are.
    I can sometimes be the only white person at a dinner party, and it doesn`t necessarily occur to me what color anyone is there, either, nor would my partner even be bothered to notice if he`s the only guy who ISN`T white. I also wouldn`t be likely to notice if I`m the only right-handed person. I`m far more interested in what people have to say than in what color they are or what hand they picked up that zucchini stick with.

    But even if A & F were picking their models from a random cross-section of people walking down a street in America (obviously NO company ever does that, but I`m being hypothetical), the probability of having four white people is reasonably high. Maybe that`s one reason that their race doesn`t stand out as being at all unusual.

    But in regards to a lack of diversity among the four models, it seems to me that their race is logically about the last thing to come to mind.
    They are all four gorgeous, all four virtually hairless, all four look to be around 20-24 years old and all four are built like Olympic volleyball players or wrestlers.

    Abercrombie and Fitch has a substantial number of models who are black, Asian or Hispanic, and even one model who has no arms and no legs. But 100% of those multi-cultured models (including the gorgeous disabled guy) fit the description I gave, and meeting even ONE guy with that look is far more rare than four white people in a row.

    The over-65 crowd makes up almost the same proportion of Americans as black people do. So why is no commenter complaining that these four models ALL fit into an age demographic that is really a TINT proportion of Americans. Where is the 70-year-old model and why is he not getting soaped up in this shower, and where is the obese man (far more common than guys like these) or the short guy or the platinum blond or the guy with Down`s Syndrome or the guy with acne or that cute guy with no arms and no legs…
    I just don`t think every campaign needs to be a cross-section of society, and even if it were, A & F is typically FAR more diverse racially than on any number of other factors.

  76. J Dub says

    Oh, Getylyourfactstogether, you have no idea. The Lebanese are nowhere near in terms of ideology the “white” race. our skin tone varies between light and dark just as the African-American race does. We have been segregated just as they have for being “colored”. This new form of racism, which is more about revenge than race, is disturbing to me. You can’t expect people to accept and include you in their society if you choose to segregate yourself. I am a member of my neighborhood association, I support affirmative action, I dislike racism, I understand inequality in all forms, and I really, really, above all I listed, hate people who will use differences to divide. Differences should be used to educate, inform, and bring together ideas, not used as
    a tool for an agenda of hate and separation.

  77. uffda says

    GREGV – very interesting comment sir. One of the most enlightened and informational here, actually balanced and level headed, raising good questions without being the least bit polemical. A good model. Thank you.

  78. fb says

    Well the company has had many lawsuits over their modeling or hiring practices & several alleging racial discrimination. Maybe that’s why the topic comes up. You see their name & you think hey that’s the company that didn’t want to hire that Asian or that black girl because they don’t fit into what they’re selling. One Filipino guy says they sometimes hire minorities, but they’re placed in stock rooms.

    Here’s an article about that lawsuit filed for racial discrimination: http://majormedia.co.nz/abercrombie-fitch-amidst-legal-suit-due-to-alleged-racial-discrimination/

  79. kiwiisamazing says

    “A & F is typically FAR more diverse racially than on any number of other factors”

    That comment by GREGV is a farce.

    GREGV, you sound like someone in or <5 years out of college. “post-racist” gave it away…plus your lack of history as to how racist A&F was shown to be during a class-action lawsuit or two (i lost count) that happened a number of years ago.

    FB: thank you for educating the people.

  80. TJ says

    GREGV – I won’t question your experience. Maybe, in your world, it doesn’t matter, because no one has any experience with racism or race mattering. But even so, it seems disingenuous (even if very well-intentioned) to not notice race, or appreciate how who and what one is can affect interactions throughout one’s life.

    At the university I used to attend (and later work for), regular seminars explored different aspects of diversity. One that really made me think involved a presentation by an African American woman who talked about how her culture and her dark skin color are intertwined and have shaped who she is. To not acknowledge that interactions throughout her life because of what she looked like had shaped who she was denied her journey. To not notice that she was dark, and to not appreciate her unique and rich culture would deny her difference, her individuality. She was proudly different. Rather than emphasizing “I’m just like you,” she suggested that it is okay to be and to embrace being different.

  81. J Dub says

    so kiwiisamazing is supporting little kiwi… are they one and the same or just a sheep following a shepherd that seeks to destroy the free-market and divide those willing to accept true equality, free expression, and speech in advertisement.
    Good luck in the the internet age where there will always be someone who refutes your ideas of antiquated racism. The new racism is yours, reverse-discrimination, undermining of survival of the fittest, and subjugation of those that gave the rights to those who lacked them.
    YOUR TYPE IS THE PROBLEM.
    Instead of seeking solutions through peaceful negotiation and acceptance, you seek to divide, separate, and attack this business on the grounds of inequality. Include yourself in it and your position would have a much greater impact on company decisions than you currently do.
    The best way to beat them is to join them. Buy their goods and show that their advertisement isn’t working and that they need to change it.

  82. kiwiisamazing says

    yes J DUB…those lawsuits against A&F from just a FEW YEARS AGO are so “antiquated.”

  83. kiwiisamazing says

    lol J DUB…yes, give them our hard-earned money to “show them”…uh-huh, that’ll “show them [the money]” alright

    i suppose war is peace, too, huh? *eye roll*

  84. J Dub says

    Kiwi… peaceful action can be more powerful than war. Proved by the civil rights movement. Money in politics today have the greatest say. If you threaten a decrease in provision of funds a change will happen. Companies look at the bottom line and if it’s in their best interest they will change.

  85. J Dub says

    Have you not studied economic theory?
    Have you only studied racism?
    Do you not see inequality in affirmative action?
    Do you think whites will always be the majority?

    You’ve got some issues you need to resolve in your thinking my brother.

    Inequality will ALWAYS exist. It’s how we deal with it that matters.

    You choose an antagonistic approach, whereas those that have made great strides in equality have used, as I’m trying to, a protagonistic approach. Instead of being negative and stating the wrongs and injustices, give ideas for inclusion and positivity, involvement in government, and support freedoms.

  86. MajorTom says

    That was def a gay kiss. How do I know? They had their eyes closed! Football hooligans don’t close their eyes when they kiss (unless they’re closeted gay football hooligans).

    A&F ads do skew heavily towards white boys (and I use “boys” quite deliberately here), but they do sometimes use models of other races. To wit:

    http://www.mankinirevolution.com/ads.html
    (Scroll to A&F at bottom of page showing a black model)

    http://www.homorazzi.com/article/abercrombie-and-fitch-paris-france-grand-opening-champs-elysees-address-shirtless-guys/
    (See A&F fashion show models including two black models)

    I think they use far more white boys simply because that is their market. You hire models who look like the people you are trying to sell to. Of course, that could open up a whole debate about whether it is racist to market predominately to a specific race. If I owned A&F, I would market to anyone I thought I could get to buy the clothes. 😉

  87. Boone68 says

    I’ve enjoyed and respected Little Kiwi’s posts in the past. However, on this one, he’s just wrong. I don’t think he’s upset that the models are not black but rather that he’s a big white fat ass who can’t get laid. It’s not the racial discrimination that bothers him. It’s the discrimination faced by bored, white, fat, lonely old men who aren’t physically able to live out their fantasies any longer. Get help, and fast.

  88. kiwiisamazing says

    boone68, that’s just b/c they got their azzes sued for in-store discrimination.

    what about their print-models workforce?

    their TV-and-video-models workforce?

  89. kiwiisamazing says

    you havent seen kiwi’s blog & videos, have you?

    he’s anything but a “big white fat ass”–not that the ad hominem attack u just made is even relevant….

  90. AladinSane says

    So Kiwi, who I used to find myself in agreement with more often than not, has taken not only to spamming ironic posts from the other side but is now creating handles so they can agree with him. Over the last couple months his tone has become increasingly shrill, uncivil, and just plain antagonistic to anyone that disagrees with him. Don’t get me wrong, Rick and Jason deserve some (a lot (ok, almost all)) of what they get but it is becoming clear that Kiwi has the same crazy. Any point he is trying to make is quickly becoming lost in the disparaging and condescending tone. I used to think Rick and Jason were the only trolls on Towleroad but Kiwi is gracing himself with addition to that list.

  91. kiwiisamazing says

    nah i’m different from kiwi…trust. i dont even think he stays up this late :). i’m just an ally who happens to be up insanely late Eastern Standard Time.

  92. Patrick says

    A&F sure does like Asian money though. Their Singapore store just opened a few months ago and their Hong Kong store is opening soon.

  93. Boone68 says

    KIWIISAMAZING, the “reason” for the initiative doesn’t deny the facts. Your Pollyanna view of the way things “ought to be” isn’t unlike the unrealistic evangelical Christian view of the world. The reality is, change is forced by the law. Human nature will NEVER get it done. That includes eliminating discrimination.

  94. J Dub says

    KiwiIsAmazing… stop being a followtard and be an individual. IF, and I really emphasize IF, you aren’t littlekiwi, then choose a name the makes you unique. Kiwiisamazing?
    That unnerves me.
    For evry post from now on I’ll use a different name just to reciprocate your iconoclastic nomenclature.

  95. says

    We’re brought up from the time we’re born with images that project Whitness as good and beautiful and Color as evil and ugly. To say that this is isolated and has nothing to do with the rest of the world is narrow-minded. I didn’t make this up. Google a Black Doll/White Doll Experiment video and you see children, not even of school age, consistently picking the white doll as beautiful and good and the brown doll as ugly and bad regardless of their own race.

    Those kids get older and they get UPSET that a “good” character in a book they love is actually black on the big screen. Even though she’s described as black IN the book, kids assume she’s white because her character is so good and pure, and then they see a black actress playing her part, and tweet that it ruins the movie, that the character was supposed to be angelic and now she’s not, and that they are less sad when she dies because the girl is black. (see: Rue Hunger Games)

    And then those kids grow up to vote and serve on juries and become police officers. Those kids who admitted to being less sad that a little black girl died. And then we see murderers of black victims receive lower sentences than murderers of white victims.

    The world doesn’t exist in little boxes–it’s all connected. A affects B affects C. The white washing of advertising leads to the continued stereotype that brown is bad or undesirable or less-than. At some point, everyone needs to recognize this so things will change.

  96. Oliver says

    “Meh, who cares, we’re all too old for Abercrombie anyway.”

    Why are we all too old for Abercrombie? What’s the difference between a polo shirt bought there and one bought from Ralph Lauren? Or an oxford cloth shirt from Abercrombie and one from Brooks Brothers? Aren’t boxer shorts the same no matter what brand name is stitched into the waist band?

  97. Adam says

    Little Kiwi, where did you pick up your bizarre ideas? This degree of hysteria about white people appearing in any context without black people must betoken something close to self-hatred. A&F are selling an image. It might not be your bag but trying to censor their work by yelling ‘racist’ seems so disproportionate.

    One comment would have been more than enough, big boy.

  98. J Dub says

    As I said before, I wear FUBU and/or Abercrombie in certain social situations. There have been times in which I’m wearing shorts by FUBU and a shirt by Abercrombie, and other times when I am wearing a shirt by FUBU and shorts by Abercrombie. Sometimes I wear all FUBU and sometimes I wear all Abercrombie. There are times, as well, that I would not wear either.

    Call me a poser, but don’t call me uneducated or someone who doesn’t make sense.

    I’m willing to back up and explain myself in MY OWN WORDS, not links by which I neglect my intellect and individuality.

  99. Jon says

    Pointing out that A&F seems to have a whites-only policy when it comes to hiring models isn’t racist, and it’s hardly a slam on white people. This isn’t a complaint about a single ad — it’s about a long history of this company only using white guys in ads.

    It’s also possible to be unhappy about A&F’s hiring practices while being happy that they’re willing to acknowledge that a big part of their target market is gay. Hell, you’re even allowed to think the ad is sexy and the guys are hot while simultaneously wishing A&F would hire a more diverse group of models.

  100. jack says

    Someone should tell Ande Towle that his site has been taken over by an intolerant left wing ideologue named littlekiwi. He is hazardous to the free exchange of ideas that this site use to have.Kiwis comments are often arrogant and condescending and on many occasions full of name calling, vitriol,and mean spirited and down right nasty. It is a shame to let one intolerant person ruin a good thing.

  101. jack says

    Littlekiwi seems to think that a young white gay man who is not sexually attracted to: “fats, fems, asians or blacks” is a racist. What about a young black guy who is only attracted to blacks? Or what about across racial lines? I have a white friend who is only attracted to asians? What is his sin? Don’t freak out pious liberals but we call him a “rice queen”. What about rich black athletes who only date white women? Have you noticed that most white, asian and black folks date their “own kind”? Are they all racist? Poor littlekiwi’s head is about to explode.

  102. 99% says

    Makes me want to take my 50 year old, 300 pound hairy body into A & F for a complete wardrobe make over!!

  103. jack says

    Littlekiwi are you in a relationship with a black or asian man? Have you dated many people of other races? Most of us, black,white and asian are more sexually attracted to people of our own race. Whats wrong with that? I can look at women and see the beauty in them. I can look at black men and see the stunning beauty in some of them. But who gets my motor running? Southern European whites. Portuguese, Spanish,Italians and Greeks. Why? I don’t know. Does it mean that I am bigoted against Swedes? NO. There is an old kind of crude saying: the c**k knows what it likes.

  104. BZ says

    It’s a strange thing, they ARE all quite beautiful and pleasant to look at, and I probably should find this arousing, but somehow I don’t.

    Maybe it’s because A+F models always seem to look so bored/jaded. Sexual desire is written in the facial expressions. That’s why I got bored with the Sears underwear ads at the tender age of 12. (OK, maybe 13.)

    Or maybe it’s because they all look so…Aryan. They could be selling clothing, or they could be selling National Socialism. As I was watching this ad the song that ran thru my head was “Tomorrow Belongs to Me.”

  105. jack says

    WOW! Such beautiful well built white men kissing. White is certainly beautiful.There is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement. However, the white liberals who probably live in mostly segregated neighborhoods, date almost exclusively in their own race and have few if any really close social friends of another race will rail against my comment.Everything revolves around race in our society. Don’t be bigoted and prejudice. But, also don’t apologize if you prefer your own race in intimate relationships. Most people of all races do and there is nothing wrong with it.

  106. SOLUS says

    I agree with CHIP this is a beautiful video as it stands. Making this into a race issue takes the seriousness out of the real complexities of true racism which has little to do with some shirtless white boys frolicing around in the shower. If this is a racist video to some of you. Take this as challenge to create one that in your minds is not racist.

  107. Anon says

    I think this is the only post I’ve seen on Towleroad that generated this amount of vitriol and number of comments.

    I can’t believe A&F may have beat out the spewing that usually follows a post on whether or not Anderson Cooper is or should be out.

  108. Gio says

    The lengths people to go to defend the indefensible would be hilarious if it wasn’t so myopic and sad. I prefer to live in a world where people strive for true equality in every “venue” rather than just those that suit them. I’ve had the “no blacks, fems or asians” argument more times than I care to count and eventually it exhausts you to the point of dull surprise but never ever, apathy. Thanks Kiwi – personally I think you’re rad.

  109. Jester says

    Count me as a white guy who wants to be part of a welcoming and inclusive community, so this ad campaign is obviously not aimed at me. But I’m much more troubled by some of the comments here. Do you really think you’re not being disgustingly racist? Try saying these things at work: you’ll be fired in a heart beat. Because it’s not the 1950s anymore. So cut it out. This crap has no place in a civilized discussion.

  110. opinionated says

    Holy crap what a waste of comment space. Umm I just want to see the video and the link doesn’t seem to be working. Can anyone tear themselves away from the Little Kiwi Show and please provide me with a link if they know of it? I am equal opportunity hotness and would like to drool over some young men please.

    Thank ye!

  111. anony6 says

    Once again, the criticism directed at this ad has much less to do with the content of the ad and alot more to do with the company who made it, A&F. Because of A&F’s history and reputation, they are under a spotlight. Ad’s like this keep confirming the negative views of the company.

    Funny how so many people are more bothered by Kiwi and many other peoples criticism of the Ad and A&F, then they are bothered by the narrow views of A&F. They find support for diversity distasteful in the face of exclusion.

  112. David Hearne says

    KIWI – ” I’m smarter than you”

    Good, then you won’t have any trouble explaining why you use “Asian” as a race rather than a geographic designation. If I used “American” in lieu of caucasian would that be OK with you?

  113. says

    @KiwiIsAmazing: I suggested that A & F’s models are more uniform based on any number of factors more than they are racially uniform.
    Rather than retort this with any facts, you’ve simply dismissed the comment as a “farce.”
    I AM a university graduate, and I DID check put facts (such as reading the details of the lawsuits to decide whether they had merit) before posting. I also went A&F’s website to read their statistics on the diversity of their workforce. I also looked at the models on the website’s “casting” pages (where most of the headshits are found) and did a headcount. My conclusion is that, in order for the models to be almost exactly the same as US demographics, they would need to get rid of one Asian and swap him out for one black guy. In other words, their models are pretty racially diverse, if not always exactly the same as the US population (not that I think they have to be).

    But they are NOT diverse AT ALL in all kinds of other ways (again, not that I think they have to be a cross-section of society).

    Some commenters talk about how kids pick the white doll over the black one. Well, they surely also pick the doll that looks 20 over the doll that looks 65.
    There Is no age diversity among these models. The VAST majority of American adults are older than ALL of A&F’s models.
    100% of them are very young adults. Not 80% or 90% but 100%. And that lack of age diversity is far more striking than the degree to which they lack any races among their models.
    The vast majority of American adults are also fatter than 100% of the A&F models. Again, kids don’t pick the fat doll, either; they pick impossibly skinny Barbie and muscle-toned Ken.
    Whether it’s true that a Filipino was told “we have too many Filipinos working here already,” I don’t know. If it was said, I don’t know the context (Was it a poorly-worded way of saying that the store was striving to have a more diverse workforce?)
    But I do know that I can find Filipino-looking models and employees on the A&F sales floor.
    But for all the young, tall, handsome, toned black guys and Filipinos who did get a job in A&F sales or on their posters, I have yet to see an obese person (whom they’re clearly beating out for the job).
    And while I agree with Little Kiwi that guys of any race can be attractive to me, I also find a man of George Clooney’s age and build to be hot. And a fifty-something hot man with hair on his chest doesn’t stand a chance to be featured wrestling in that shower or even working on the sales floor.
    So why do some posters here focus on race when it is obviously so far down the list below other criteria that clearly exclude other potential models?

  114. says

    @KiwiIsAmazing: I suggested that A & F’s models are more uniform based on any number of factors more than they are racially uniform.
    Rather than retort this with any facts, you’ve simply dismissed the comment as a “farce.”
    I AM a university graduate, and I DID check put facts (such as reading the details of the lawsuits to decide whether they had merit) before posting. I also went A&F’s website to read their statistics on the diversity of their workforce. I also looked at the models on the website’s “casting” pages (where most of the headshits are found) and did a headcount. My conclusion is that, in order for the models to be almost exactly the same as US demographics, they would need to get rid of one Asian and swap him out for one black guy. In other words, their models are pretty racially diverse, if not always exactly the same as the US population (not that I think they have to be).

    But they are NOT diverse AT ALL in all kinds of other ways (again, not that I think they have to be a cross-section of society).

    Some commenters talk about how kids pick the white doll over the black one. Well, they surely also pick the doll that looks 20 over the doll that looks 65.
    There Is no age diversity among these models. The VAST majority of American adults are older than ALL of A&F’s models.
    100% of them are very young adults. Not 80% or 90% but 100%. And that lack of age diversity is far more striking than the degree to which they lack any races among their models.
    The vast majority of American adults are also fatter than 100% of the A&F models. Again, kids don’t pick the fat doll, either; they pick impossibly skinny Barbie and muscle-toned Ken.
    Whether it’s true that a Filipino was told “we have too many Filipinos working here already,” I don’t know. If it was said, I don’t know the context (Was it a poorly-worded way of saying that the store was striving to have a more diverse workforce?)
    But I do know that I can find Filipino-looking models and employees on the A&F sales floor.
    But for all the young, tall, handsome, toned black guys and Filipinos who did get a job in A&F sales or on their posters, I have yet to see an obese person (whom they’re clearly beating out for the job).
    And while I agree with Little Kiwi that guys of any race can be attractive to me, I also find a man of George Clooney’s age and build to be hot. And a fifty-something hot man with hair on his chest doesn’t stand a chance to be featured wrestling in that shower or even working on the sales floor.
    So why do some posters here focus on race when it is obviously so far down the list below other criteria that clearly exclude other potential models?

  115. Steven says

    Um…doesn’t anyone else remember Abercrombie forbid their clotting from being worn on QUEER AS FOLK because they didn’t want their clothing associated with gay people (despite their pandering homoerotic ads)?

    Funny how desperate companies get when sales start to sink.

  116. RedOnTheGreg says

    @LittleKiwi Your arguments against racism pointless when you engage in it yourself…”you pathetic white idiots are free to continue ignoring it. won’t save your gay assed, in the end.”
    Lose the hypocrisy and people might be more inclined to take you seriously.

  117. Jerry6 says

    @ LITTLEKIWI I suspect that after all these years of critics faulting A & F for their “White Only” advertising, it means that they are, and will continue to be, a company that does not want their clothes to be worn by anyone who is not Lilly White.

  118. says

    whew, that was a lot to read. click my name to see who i am.

    my boyfriend is mixed-race: polynesian/chinese-swedish.

    i’ve dated every colour of the rainbow. grew up in toronto, one of the most multiculturally-diverse cities in the world. i have no racial preferences – well, that’s not true. i have one big one. i don’t date guys that think beauty comes in only one colour. if you’re not into blacks or asians, then i’m not into you. sorry, it’s just my preference.
    😉

    none of those comments “defending me” were me – i’m an attention-whore, remember? i like people to click me to see who i am 😉

    but thanks, guys. i’ll continue to call our this B.S. as it comes along.

    i’m just a gay white dude who is continually frustrated by other gay white men who, clearly, have no idea what life is like for people of colour in 2012. sure, some will say “i have _____ friends!”
    *yawn*
    sure you do.
    in the last few weeks we’ve seen staggering examples of still-prevalent racism in our collective culture, and there’s more to racism than slurs or outright hatred.

    the Hunger Games Tweets – people upset that black characters are black. why? because they can’t cry when a black girl dies.

    NOM exposed for working to turn gay people against the black communities.

    Trayvon Martin. The ongoing “Obama isn’t american” nonsense.

    and then another ad for A&F highlighting One Colour Of Beauty. of course you guys think it isn’t about race.
    just like the straight anti-gay crowd insists LGBT Equality isn’t about civil rights.

    you don’t think it matters because it doesn’t affect you, personally.

    saying “A&F has racially-diverse policies” is like saying “Chick-Fil-A treats its gay employees with respect”

    you’ve got your blinders on.

    Cheers to all that “get it” – and a great deal of pity for those who don’t.

  119. jaragon says

    I thought Weber was gay his images are so obviously homoerotic- and he is attracted to same type of white, smooth athletic young man he should be working for gay clone factory.

  120. says

    “I have a white friend who is only attracted to asians? What is his sin? Don’t freak out pious liberals but we call him a “rice queen”. What about rich black athletes who only date white women? Have you noticed that most white, asian and black folks date their “own kind”? Are they all racist? Poor littlekiwi’s head is about to explode.”

    Not really. Your friend is fetishizing ethnicity. It’s the flip-side to “not into asians”, actually.

    there’s being colorblind, and then there’s having a color-specific fetish. my friends of colour attest to this – the annoyance wherein you have a world of people who either “aren’t into your ethnicity” , meaning what turns them off about you is your ethnicity, or those who are fetishistically drawn to it. not much better – “the person” is still not being seen, only the ethnicity.

    as for “what about minorities who only date their own ethnicity” – for that to make intellectual sense we’d have to be living in a culture where all ethnicities are equal and equally represented.

    they’re not.

    so, no. why would my head explode when someone says something that reveals how little they know about sociology? Jack, you didn’t say anything I haven’t heard some uneducated teen say. Congrats.

  121. jaragon says

    Advertising is suppose to sell us a fantasy- it doesn’t have to be racially inclusive to be effective- this is some sort of fantasy universe in which impossibly beautiful white young men wrestle, shower in their shorts and hug.

  122. Gio says

    “Advertising is suppose to sell us a fantasy- it doesn’t have to be racially inclusive to be effective- this is some sort of fantasy universe in which impossibly beautiful white young men wrestle, shower in their shorts and hug.”

    AKA The Fourth Reich.

  123. AladinSane says

    Some people like to be right at all costs, some to have or make others agree with them, but a rare few actually engage in conversation in order to change hearts and minds while willingly admitting the possibility of changing their own. The latter is incompatible with the former two. Let me be clear; you can be right Kiwi (as you are in this case), you can have others agree with you (as I do), but you aren’t even close to changing minds, in fact the opposite. You are actively shutting down the conversation with your strident and condescending tone, ad hominem attacks, and your inability to concede that someone may have a different, but logically held, OPINION. This isn’t just about this thread. It’s about everything you’ve posted in the last few months. I’ve never in my 39 years had to say this to someone with which I agree so much, but you need to check yourself. You are not the arbiter of all that is right and good. You are not omniscient, nor infallible, nor even particularly likable. The quality of a person is not defined in how many agree with him, how loud he can shout the opposing opinion down, but in how many voices he brings to the table with the possibility of reaching future understanding.

    With that, here’s some gay (but applicable) frivolity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODNHOX5GY04

  124. joe says

    These ads are pure explotation. The videos distort and outsize the homoerotic aspects of a difficult and diminushing sport to sell awful souless clothes. It cheapens the long, difficult efforts of dedicated athletes into soft core pornography so people will conflate the idea of getting a boner with “ambercrummie” clothes. I fear more young men will avoid the sport to not end up in a fourgy in a shower.
    Why eroticize an actual sport to provide cover for soft core pornography (or glorified eroticism)? If nearly nude young men frolicking together is what you want to show, don’t hide behind some one else’s hard work and “pretend” you are “documenting” legitimate behavior. And when have we as queer men & women got so desperate for mainstream images that a kiss on a forehead is qualified as a “steamy image”?
    Stand against cheap explotation and phony glamour! Call this junk out for what it really is. If there were females in this advertisement the cries of horror would echo around the world of “abusing” the female body and “decrying the legitamate uses of sport”. Why not the same standard for men? Or is everyone so busy watching it with one hand they forget their principles and honor?
    If gay rights is a civil rights issue, then we have to take a stand against precisely the areas were we are stereotyped, not to be trusted in lockerrooms, fantasizing about fellow teammates, suppose this was a military barracks and not a locker room? Do you know the lengths that real gay athletes have to go to be accepted and this junk comes out and “oh, it has a gay kiss and lovely shirtless models, so it must be good.”
    If gay rights equals civil rights, then act right, define sport as sport and porn as porn and defend both equally, but don’t conflate the two of them and say its wonderful.
    Real wrestlers wear sweat clothes from head to toe usually, because heat is a friend to muscles, watch a real event once in a while, and real men who participate, whether straight or gay, give heart, soul and body to the sport. They should’nt be exploited as cheap quasi porn fodder in return.
    Any one who supports gays in the military and is pro gay marriage and then likes these videos should be sent to remedial gay education on what constitutes real pride and progress, and this stuff should be shot down, not glorified. You want a real gay kiss that certifies progress, try the military homecoming pictures for real emotion and pride and dignity, and compare to this cheap shot.
    Towleroad, you should be ashamed!