1. says

    Show me what religious organizations have lost their tax exemption status because they wouldn’t allow marriage between same sex couples. Isn’t that a flat out lie??

  2. Cam says

    Easy, multiple studies have shown that extreme homophobia is usually associated with closet cases who hate that aspect of themselves and are lashing out at homsexuals as a way of attacking what they hate about themselves.

    Just look at George Reckers, Ted Haggard, etc….

  3. says

    It’s just really frustrating when interviewers let people like Tony Perkins get away with saying lies like “Social Science has proven that children do better in home with a mother and a father” and “Churches have lost their tax exempt status for not performing same sex marriages.” I’m pretty sure both of these things are UNTRUE and he needs to be called out on it!

  4. John Freeman says

    Yet again, Perkins fails to make a reasonable argument against equal rights for same sex couples. Obviously, he can’t because there isn’t one.

  5. Disgusted American says

    He’s such a scumbag…and his kids will have to live with the knowledge that thier father is / was compared to the likes of George Wallace and the KKK..History will NOT be kind to this man, and IT shouldn’t! Ever wonder why you never hear from anybody in George Wallace’s family…..very telling , huh?

  6. Brian says

    That interview was a total home run for Perkins, so I’m not sure why we should be cheering Baldwin. He spouted his “forty years of social science confirms overwhelmingly that children need a father and mother” talking point four or five times, and was never challenged, either on the validity of the argument (it’s not) or its relevance to same sex marriage (it isn’t). He made sure to mention at the very beginning, again irrelevantly, that he’ll have preachers of “all ethnicities” against same sex marriage and pushed the race divide hard, again unchallenged, even though the most recent poll shows strong support across races. And she tossed out only a feeble objection when perkins said the debate isn’t about marriage, but about “brainwashing our children and closing our churches”. If I were, for example, an ignorant parishioner at Providence Baptist Church in North Carolina, for example, I’d find him pretty compelling. I appreciate that she tried to lob a couple of slightly aggressive questions, but with no folowup it just allowed him to make up fake answers that made his side look good.

  7. says

    She really had him on the ropes. The best way to defuse a moron like this is to ask them to explain why gay marriage is wrong WITHOUT using religion. If they insist that it’s religious freedom at stake, ask “what if being gay was a religion?” Cue incomprehensible mumbling from the Bible-thumping idiot.

  8. Jeff says

    It’s all lies. A multitude of studes have shown that children raised by same-sex couples turn out just as well-adjusted as those brought up in traditional families. It’s been proven millions of times that as long they loved and nurtured, kids turn out fine.

  9. David says

    I agree with Brian. While she did challenge him on the emotional issues, she seemed unprepared to challenge him on his so-called facts.
    Clearly TP is good for ratings, otherwise he wouldn’t be on all the major networks so often. But I have yet to really see an anchorperson who was prepared to challenge him.
    It drives me crazy to hear TP talk about how we are changing what our kids are taught in school. That gay people exist? That Harvey Milk was the first openly gay man to be elected public office? That in some states gay men and women have the legal rights to be married? That gay men and women raise healthy, well adjusted children?
    These are facts and people who interview TP and who want to challenge him should be prepared to discuss those facts.
    In the end, a fat lot of good it does me to vent in the comments section. Every time I see him on TV, I wonder, where is the opposing view? What do we do in the LGBT community to put an end to these constant attacks on who we are and the rights we are entitled to?

  10. Michaelandfred says

    Every single thing he “won’t allow them to do” to him he does to us. Why does not a single reporter ever ask him that? The problem is is that few reporters are actually informed enough with the studies and the topic as a whole to really hit him back.

  11. says

    Good start, but I counted at least 5 bald-faced lies on his part, and the reporters should really begin challenging those.

    Beginning with the “social science research,” none of which shows that you need a mom and a dad.

    Then the MA claims about schools — changes in what was taught began BEFORE MA had marriage equality. It was about safe schools for gay kids, NOT about marriage.

    The public accommodations / church property was the NJ pavilion that was PUBLIC, it was NOT church property. Why is it any different than refusing to serve blacks in a restaurant “for religious reasons”?

    and so on. He repeats the same few points over and over, why can’t the reporters do a little research on each of these points?

  12. Ro says

    It’s funny to me how he can say that he has never been to dinner with a same sex couple and yet he ” knows for a fact” that we are lesser parents than him. My partner and I have a 20 year old daughter and a 16 year old son. Our daughter is an amazing artist who is in an advanced graphic arts program at a top school and our son just passed 11th grade with a straight A/B average. Our son moved in with us last year at his own request and even his mom was fine with it. So, all I can say to Mr. Perkins is his research that he is quoting falls flat in the evidence of my family. I’m sure he would probably say my family is the exception to the rule. That seems to be the response of his type.

  13. Oliver says

    I agree with Brian. And furthermore, there’s a large percentage of Americans that are just like that dumb-f**k woman who was on Anderson Cooper A360 defending that preacher, and they listen to this man as if he’s some authority and they believe his every word.

  14. Xzavier says

    If religion is what you interpret a scripture to be, you can never beat a religious zealot at a religious debate because to them their interpretation will always be better than yours, when in all truth all of your argument is meaningless plausible inarguable aphorisms.

  15. Swiminbuff says

    The next time they have Tony on they should pair him with the leader of the KKK and Fred Phelps. They can all use the Bible to justify their special beliefs and maybe America will get a better understanding of what hate and bigotry looks like.

  16. Derek says

    At least they’re finally starting to challenge him instead of letting him spew his litany of lies.. They do need to be better prepared with the facts though if they’re going to do it right.

  17. Tanoka says

    I also agree with Brian. It’s not enough. Next time one of these bigots come for their interview, have some facts ready, and use them! Point out that their ‘facts’ are lies.

    I guess it’s a step in the right direction, though, compared to earlier.

  18. Caliban says

    I would LOVE for a reporter to ask Perkins what he thinks about the several studies that show homophobes are fighting their own homosexual urges.

    Don’t say any more than that, just let the unspoken implication lie there and see what he says.

  19. JP says

    WHAT SOCIAL SCIENCE RESEARCH???!! The one he conducted?

    God if any of my professors from undergrad were to see this, they’d die.

    She made a brilliant point of how society and its values are evolving.

  20. Strykary says

    “This could be the death knell of marriage.”

    Yes! Exactly! Once homosexuals start getting married everyone else will just stop because marriage will be ruined!


  21. Mic says


    Ted Olsen V Troll Perkins? Now THAT is brilliant! Are you reading CNN??? You guys want REAL NEWS??? Real ratings spike?

    Follow Jacks advice. The eyes of a nation would watch your channel.

    And Miss Perkins and his filthy ilk would finally have to crawl away back into their little tiny churhes and stew in their frothy bigotry, alone.

    Smack Down bar none!

  22. Caliban says

    Since they seem incapable of doing it themselves, GLAAD or some other organization should send out a press packet (complete with footnotes and citations) to news organizations with the studies that refute Tony Perkins’ false claims.

    They KNOW the guy is coming on and what he’s going to say, because he always says the same things, but apparently they’re too lazy to do any research. OK fine, then someone needs to do it FOR them, a concise breakdown of his claims and the actual social science that disproves them.

    Say what you will about Rachel Maddow (I know some don’t like her), but at least when she has a guest on she does her frigging homework on them first! Is it really THAT hard?!

  23. UFFDA says

    BRIAN is way right and CALIBAN has provided an explicit solution. Grill this Perkins jerk with REAL facts, be prepared, the press is still far too lame in confronting these fundamentalist primates.

  24. Tarc says

    Virtually every single thing that man said is a FACTUAL lie. I’d love to debate that moron – I’d slaughter him with science and facts.

  25. marcus66502 says

    You cannot have a debate with Tony Perkins. You can try to argue your position in court in front of a rational judge, but it is NOT POSSIBLE to have a logical debate with Tony Perkins. This man has made up his mind and there’s nothing you can say to change it.

    The only thing left to do is to make sure this man is never heard. Indeed, he should never be invited to speak at any TV network, let alone CNN. Unfortunately, that’s not about to happen any time soon because this country still has a slight majority of its population that (at least at a subconscious level) feels slightly comfortable with the bs embraced by this man.

  26. gomez says

    something i never hear asked: perkins bases this all on religion

    why should their religion dictate secular law??

    never ever hear this asked by a reporter but is seems so obvious

  27. antisaint says

    I definitely applaud and appreciate Brooke for being an ally. Anyone who is willing to question the logic of these people is okay in my book.

    But time and time again I watch these interviews and I wonder why no one shows up to the table with the studies that have been done that show that same-sex couples provide just as ideal a home as their hetero counter parts? Every time Perkins brings this argument up about how ‘studies show bla bla bla,’ I just want someone to say, “That’s fine, but that’s unrealistic.” Because it is.

    Two-parent home is obviously ideal, but the reality is you can define marriage however you want and it’s not gonna stop people from becoming single moms and dads, or putting their kids in foster care or up for adoption. It’s also not going to stop a hetero couple with no desire to marry from procreating. It’s not going to increase or decrease the amount of kids who age out of the foster care system with no parents or family to call their own. His “Think of the kids!” argument is so easily destroyed and no one EVER DOES.

    All this to say nothing of the fact that ultimately marriage equality won’t have any real affect on “The Kids.”

    Why does no one ask how it is that Canada has had these rights for over a decade at this point and the Christian God has not set the place on fire and sent it imploding into the ground?

    Why does no one question him about the SPLC’s designation of FRC as a hate group?

    Why does no one remind him we are NOT a Christian nation, and that his faith-based beliefs are only his beliefs and not the last word?

    And where are these churches who lost their tax-exempt status for refusing to let gay marriages happen in their buildings?

    His answers are literally dodges and swoops most of the time to bring the conversation back to some outdated bulletpoint from some study his group conducted. I swear if I hear that man say, “That’s a good question,” one more time…

    I dunno. It just seems like it would be SOOO easy to back him into a corner. Much as I love Dan Savage — because he totally could do it — you know he would never be able to contain himself.

  28. Roxanne says

    I’m a woman married to a man for 34 years. We are Christians AND WE ARE THE PROUD PARENTS OF A GAY SON! Take that Mr. Perkins and all of those of you out there who have the audacity to call yourselves Christians preaching hate, bigotry and basically showing yourselves to be narrow-minded idiots! My son is loving, wonderful, talented, intelligent and one day, if he so chooses, will make an amazing father.

  29. Dave says

    Tony Perkins lies when he says a family needs a man and a woman, many single men and woman raise children today just fine. Tony also lies when he says that gay marriage will destroy religion, if anybody destroys religion it is the pedophile Catholic priest and others who rape and abuse children in the Christian Church. Tony is anti-gay and wants to stop LGBT people from having the same freedoms as all Americas and this makes him an evil little Hitler much like the white Christian southern slave masters who wanted to keep blacks slaves. The times are changing and the anti-gay Christians want to stop the change and they have never been able to do it. People are waking up and now know that the earth is not flat nor is it the center of the universe. It is time the Christians stop being a hate group and go back to loving their fellow man, if we all are to survive in this world.

  30. GregV says

    GLAAD’s spokesman said: “Baldwin used her questions to put his views into context, and told her audience a complete story.”

    I disagree. Don’t get me wrong, I like her and I commend her for not being silent. But why, oh, why, are people like Perkins allowed to say the SAME lies over and over and over and over again unchallenged?
    We already know from every interview he has ever done that he is going to repeatedly say that “40 years of research proves that kids do best in a home with a mom and a dad.”
    The problem for him is that ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the leading professional organization in EVERY domain of medicine and the social sciences says EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. I can easily link to the policy statements on this issue put out by the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and so on and so on.

    Why do there never seem to be any researchers at CNN who are ready to put one policy statement after another on the screen (even if it is done silently while he talks his nonsense over top of the proof he is lying?)
    The first time in this interview that she let that statement pass unchallenged and with an “Okay,” I cringed but I let it slide because, well, maybe she’s short on time.
    The second time, I cringed again, and thought, well, maybe she didn’t hear what he said.
    The third time he repeated it, I started to get annoyed. The fourth time, I just wanted to yell at my TV, “Come on, Brooke, your heart is in the right place but can you please educate yourself on the issue before you have these nuts on your show?”

  31. GregV says

    Here are some examples from the world’s ACTUAL leading research organizations:

    “Children deserve to know that their relationships with both of their parents are stable and legally recognized. This applies to all children, whether their parents are of the same or opposite sex. The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual. When 2 adults participate in parenting a child, they and the child deserve the serenity that comes with legal recognition.”

    (And be forewarned, CNN reporters: Tony Perkins will try to retort this by quoting a tiny fringe group that he practically invented which has a deceptively similar name to the world’s ACTUAL LEADING group for pediatricians that I cited).

    The American Psychological Association’s stance is that:

    “…In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children’s psychosocial growth.”

  32. Ex says

    I am an ordained minister. If I start my own church
    and call it the Church of Enligtenment and make
    one of the sacred beliefs a right to Gay marriage,
    couldn’t I make it tax exempt, have a right to
    Separation of church and state, and that would
    solve everything?

    Would the Feds have any say and wouldn’t they have to
    leave us all alone?

  33. Dave says

    Tony attacks gays as wanting to destroy religion when it is the pedophiles in the Christian churches who are destroying their own church from within. So the best defense is a good offense, which means when the anti-gay Christians attack you with lies then you attack them back with the truth about their own pedophile problem in the Christian church, which is why people are leaving, they do not want priest to rape and abuse their children. You should also know one of the Christians reasons for saying gays want to destroy the church is that it take attention away from the fact that the Christians have a pedophile priest problem that they do not want people to see or think about and so they shift the attention over to the gays are doing it. So hit them back with the truth that their pedophile priest are destroying their Christian churches not gays.

  34. Sean says

    Baldwin did a good job, but why do they always forget to ask the reverse question, “Why is it your right to decide that a same sex couple’s relationship is not worthy of a marriage certificate? You keep saying this not personal, but what gives you the right as just a regular person to judge someone not worthy of a simple document?” Perkins kept saying this isn’t personal. But, the choice to get married is one of the most personal someone makes.

  35. Jim Stone says

    It’s all about HIS rights..right? Excuse me..but doesn’t he have all of his rights? So..let’s just screw our rights..those homos don’t need rights do they Tony?

  36. Jim Stone says

    I think this closeted homophobe is freaking out because he slowly is realizing that he made some poor “life choices” by marrying a woman and having kids knowing full well that he is gay. He is seeing other gay men not follow his path..marrying the people that they actually do love and having a happy healthy life. I see a man full of jealousy-lashing out. It is called “self internal homophobia” Tony-you cannot fool me. I hope you find your way-life is so short..

  37. says

    as much as we’d all love an argument based on “facts” let’s try to remember something: people like this guy KNOW the facts, they choose to ignore them.

    we have a world of scientific backup for the theory of evolution, the history of the planet and the universe, and yet they all say “no, i believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old and it was made by God in six days and adam & eve are literal historical figures”

    you’d be as successful explaining calculus to a cockroach. their stance can only be maintained by remaining willfully ignorant of specific facts – that’s why they ignore them. without their pre-chosen “beliefs” they have nothing worth living for in life.

  38. Ninong says

    Tony Perkins has that set speech memorized. It never varies. The so-called Social Science he’s referring to has all been debunked. And it had nothing to do with comparing children in heterosexual two-parent homes to children in same-sex two-parent homes. It compared children in heterosexual two-parent homes to children in heterosexual one-parent homes and came to the conclusion that having a mother and father was better than having only one of the above. Other, more recent studies have shown that children raised by gay parents do just as well as children raised by straight parents, except that children raised by gay parents are more open-minded and tolerant of others.

    As far as him claiming that religious institutions have lost their tax-exempt status for refusing to allow same-sex ceremonies in their facilities, you have to pay close attention to every word. What he’s talking about are the few cases around the country that involved religious-affiliated groups that got into trouble with local authorities for refusing to rent their campground or other facility to gay couples who wanted to have a civil union or other same-sex ceremony there. The reason they got into trouble is that in all of those cases the facility rented to both Christian and non-Christian groups for a variety of events, including weddings, etc., AND, in all of those cases that facility enjoyed local property tax exemption. They were found to be in violation of the state’s anti-discrimination equal-access laws. I know of a couple of cases in New Jersey involving Methodists and one case a few years back involving the Knights of Columbus.

    None of those cases involved a church being in trouble of losing either its local or federal tax-exempt status for refusing to allow their church to be used for same-sex ceremonies of any kind. Churches have full control over what type of ceremonies are allowed in their churches; but if the Methodists, or other religious group, has a practice of renting their campground, or boardwalk pavillion, to both Chrisitans and non-Christians alike they can’t deny equal access to gay couples wanting to rent the facilities to have their celebration there. Especially when that property enjoys a local property-tax exemption!

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