Josh Weed Is Gay, And Loves His Wife Very Much

JoshAndLollyThis is, I promise, one of the most fascinating things you'll read this June: The blog post in which Josh Weed, full-time "marriage and family therapist" and part-time humorist, comes out of the closet.

Thing is, Josh Weed is a very devout Mormon, and he's married to a woman. He and his wife, Lolly, have three daughters. Lolly and Josh have been friends since they were kids, and Lolly's known Josh was gay since he was 16. They got married anyway, and they reportedly have a "robust" sex life. But Josh says he's not bisexual. From the blog:

Some might assume that because I’m married to a woman, I must be bisexual. This would be true if sexual orientation was defined by sexual experience. Heck, if sexual orientation were defined by sexual experience, I would be as straight as the day is long even though I’ve never been turned on by a Victoria’s Secret commercial in my entire life. Sexual orientation is defined by attraction, not by experience. In my case, I am attracted sexually to men. Period. Yet my marriage is wonderful, and Lolly and I have an extremely healthy and robust sex life. How can this be?

The truth is, what people are really asking with the above question is “how can you be gay if your primary sex partner is a girl?” I didn’t fully understand the answer to this question until I was doing research on sexuality in grad school even though I had been happily married for almost five years at that point. I knew that I was gay, and I also knew that sex with my wife was enjoyable. But I didn’t understand how that was happening. Here is the basic reality that I actually think many people could use a lesson in: sex is about more than just visual attraction and lust and it is about more than just passion and infatuation. I won’t get into the boring details of the research here, but basically when sex is done right, at its deepest level it is about intimacy. It is about one human being connecting with another human being they love. It is a beautiful physical manifestation of two people being connected in a truly vulnerable, intimate manner because they love each other profoundly. It is bodies connecting and souls connecting. It is beautiful and rich and fulfilling and spiritual and amazing. Many people never get to this point in their sex lives because it requires incredible communication, trust, vulnerability, and connection. And Lolly and I have had that from day one, mostly because we weren’t distracted by the powerful chemicals of infatuation and obsession that usually bring a couple together (which dwindle dramatically after the first few years of marriage anyway). So, in a weird way, the circumstances of our marriage allowed us to build a sexual relationship that is based on everything partners should want in their sex-life: intimacy, communication, genuine love and affection. This has resulted in us having a better sex life than most people I personally know. Most of whom are straight. Go fig.

So — Josh's gayness somehow improved his het sex life. It's a crazy world.

Josh's blog post is a little bonkers — less because of his love life (which, like most love lives, looks a little bonkers to those on the outside looking in) than because of his Mormonism (which is just bonkers, full-stop) — but it's kind of sweet, too. If he's to be taken at his word, it seems he ignored the imperatives of his own natural attractions to settle down with the person he believed to be his soul-mate, and with whom he wanted to build a family. If he was an atheist or a Unitarian or a Buddhist who did that and wrote about it, he'd be proclaimed a bold sexual rebel. The fact that he just happens to be a member of a religion that condemns homosexuality makes the decision feel a lot less bold, and more like the result of brainwashing —

— but he's so nice! So reasonable! From the blog:

About two years ago, I saw a psychologist to get medication for my ADHD-I.  She was a lesbian, and when I told her that I was a gay man in a heterosexual marriage, she spent an entire session hammering me with questions about my situation in a genuine effort to make sure I was happy. I didn’t love that she did this, but as a clinician myself, I understood where she was coming from.

During our conversation, she told me about her life with her partner. She spoke of a girl, whom she considered her daughter, who is the biological child of her ex-lover, with whom she lived for only three years. She told me of how much she loved her daughter, but how infrequently she got to see her. And eventually, when talking about my sex life, she said “well, that’s good you enjoy sex with your wife, but I think it’s sad that you have to settle for something that is counterfeit.”

I was a little taken aback by this idea—I don’t consider my sex-life to be counterfeit. In response, I jokingly said “and I’m sorry that you have to settle for a counterfeit family.” She immediately saw my point and apologized for that comment. Obviously, I don’t actually think a family with non-biological members is counterfeit in any way. I also don’t feel that my sex-life is counterfeit. They are both examples of something that is different than the ideal. I made that joke to illustrate a point. If you are gay, you will have to choose to fill in the gaps somewhere. She chose to have a family in a way that is different than the ideal. I choose to enjoy sex in a way that is different than the ideal for a gay man. It all comes down to what you choose and why, and knowing what you want for yourself and why you want it. That’s basically what life is all about.

True! And it would sound even truer coming from somebody who doesn't base his life decisions on a book that claims Native Americans first sailed to America from the Levant.

Comments

  1. Steve says

    I can certainly see how a gay person can have a deep emotional connection to someone of the opposite sex. It really is how many people end up in a straight marriage. They fall in love with their best friends and only later realize that they are gay.

    But to translate that into “awesome sex” is pretty absurd.

    >”She chose to have a family in a way that is different than the ideal”

    And he here shows that is just a brainwashed Mor(m)on

  2. neo says

    As long as they’re happy. I could really care less about the choices people make regarding sex and relationships. In a world where so many people think same sex love is wrong and disgusting, I can’t really pass judgement a gay man who wants to have a wife and kids. We all get to make our own choices to get what we want out of life.

  3. UFFDA says

    Very, very interesting and memorable. The comments here are going to be wild. I would only say that Josh is the expert on himself and his feelings. When you meet the right person anything can happen. It is a good example of how it is that many essentially straight men can live happily ever after with a gay man to their mutual fullfilment. Orientation takes a back seat to love.

  4. finkles2000 says

    Agreed, Steve. I feel sorry for his wife, but then again, I suppose this is the life she chose. In my opinion, this article does nothing but justify delusion.

    And it’s interesting that he insists he isn’t bisexual. If it walks like a duck, and has sex with both men and women, then that’s a damn bisexual duck. And that second paragraph of the blog post seems like a pretty standard bisexual response: “It’s about two people connecting, nothing else.”

    On the other hand, why should I care? If he’s happy, then whatever, I guess.

  5. ptip says

    @Neo and Uffda
    The problem is Josh’s post is going to be used to further shame gay LDS children into trying to become straight. If you read the comments on his blog, many of them are from gay people saying this gives them hope they too can change. There are also comments from people saying they are going to show this to their gay friends. I suppose to show them that they also can become straight. This is just more mormon ex-gay propaganda that will result in more LGBT children committing suicide after struggling to become straight and wondering why they can’t like Josh.

  6. Lymis says

    I can see why this has the “ex-gay” tag on it, because it’s a part of that broader discussion, but this isn’t an ex-gay story at all. It’s the story of a gay man who made choices a lot of us wouldn’t.

    I know some other couples in this sort of arrangement, where religion is not a part of the equation, or at least, where their personal religion (as opposed to the way they were raised) is not a factor. So, while no doubt his Mormon faith informs his personal decision, it isn’t accurate to imply it’s the only reason similar people might have had.

    This doesn’t bother me at all. Good for him if he is happy and if she is happy.

    I’ll come down hard on it if anyone tries to use it as “proof” that it’s the only acceptable choice for the rest of us, though, or if the religious view shifts from “cure” to this sort of “accommodation” as the standard answer that a denomination wants to impose on people.

    It wouldn’t work for me. I can’t imagine how it works for someone else. But the two of them get to be the ones who say that it does or doesn’t.

  7. Paul B. says

    Whatever makes you happy as long as nobody gets hurt. Is it possible that nobody is getting hurt in this unusual marriage…perhaps. On a side note…I’m gay..maybe 99.5%…because for some strange reason Eva Mendez gives me a woody and desire to french kiss. My husband thinks that’s “sick” and I can’t explain why I find her so sexy…maybe she’s just so beautiful in every way that it transcends my usual instincts. If she had a nice hairy bag of beans…that would be even better! I even tried calling my husband “Eva” the last time we made love…he slapped me hard!

  8. says

    well, there are all kinds of agreements, eh?

    he’s allowed to marry without romantic love, and she’s allowed to marry a man that sees her as a gosh-darn-great best friend.

    the sad reality, of course, is that all of this comes with the LDS baggage; namely – do this or you won’ get your own planet and you’ll end up spending Eternity on a lower-level of “heaven” as a servant (probably with non-mormons and “blacks”).

    intent and motivation are everything.

    the reality of his circumstances, removing an LDS or conservative-religious influence, could be a relationship with a man he’s attracted to, while still maintaining a terrific and close relationship with this (or another) female, and still being an active parent. the choice is not “be gay or be a father” – there are simply too many fathers and mothers and families of different makeup and dynamic for such a “question” to even be posed anymore.

    when i was teen dating a very-special lass in high school, i truly thought i could do it forever. why? because he was, and remains, freakin’ amazing. the best friend, a thrilling intellectual partner, someone i love deeply, and *yeah*, we actually had a really good sex life. but “that something special” just wasn’t there.

    and that something special only comes from a connection to a partner with which you’re naturally oriented for attraction toward.

    so as “lovely” as this story may seem, in an LDS kind of way, i can’t shake that basic truth – his happiness is indeed, without question, missing “that one special thing” – and in true LDS fashion, he doesn’t see it. because he’s doing what he’s “supposed” to do, and that is “supposed” to make him happy.

  9. atomic says

    What I resent is the particular implications of his example; i.e., that a gay man can and thus “choose” to act out a heterosexual marriage, complete with wife, sex, and kids.

    Perhaps it is genuine in his mind–I have no right to discount that possibility–but Mormons and other nutcase evangelicals have made no effort to give the rest of us GLBTs any equivalent consideration that our lives are genuine. And so, despite his claims, I ultimately find his position unconvincing and extremely offensive because it is so clearly motivated by his religious thinking.

    Again, he is more than welcome to live his life according to the constraints he has imposed upon himself. But when he goes public to insinuate that this is what the cult of Mormonism expects gay men to do, that totally crosses the line. You can read it in his choice of wording–e.g., “different than the ideal.” I’m sorry, but being gay is not different than the ideal, because to say something is ideal means that it is BETTER or a EXEMPLARY MODEL of the available alternatives. His language is full of weasel words that reveal his subtle biases.

  10. BobN says

    His story includes a link to a book to which he contributed. The book is published by the Mormon church. It tells the stories of people like him and others who have chosen not to live the “gay lifestyle”.

    Shame on him for contributing to that.

  11. Luke says

    I just feel sorry for his wife. On my point of view here there are only two possibilities: He’s bisexual or he try to live as his religion told him. I’m not here to judge but I feel sorry for him because he doesn’t live the way he feels deep inside.

  12. John says

    It’s interesting and unusual, and definitely a great read. This would be far more easily digestible if he added the disclaimer that he doesn’t think this arrangement should be the norm, or that it’s more moral than being with a man. I’d have said that from the get go, because otherwise we’re all left to make assumptions.

  13. scott says

    Brandon, thanks for the amazing job you do on the weekends- as well as everyone at Towleroad.

    I was reading through Josh’s post- and while he seems very nice- when you read down, he doesn’t sound that accepting of other gay people’s choices. From a section of that same post under the heading,

    Should all gay people who are LDS or Christian choose to marry people of the opposite gender?
    “2. If you are gay and Mormon (or Christian), I want you to know how much love I feel for you, and how much I admire you. I know how hard it is to be where you are. I want you to do me a favor. I want you, right now, to take a deep breath, look in the mirror, and accept yourself as you are in this very instant. You are you. And your attractions are part of you. And you are totally okay! I promise. I want you to stop battling with this part of you that you may have understood as being sinful. Being gay does not mean you are a sinner or that you are evil. Sin is in action, not in temptation or attraction.
    I feel this is a very important distinction. This is true for every single person. You don’t get to choose your circumstances, but you do get to choose what you do with them. ”

    Now, I appreciate that he says people should love their gay relatives, friends- however, we all know this part of the ex-gay movement’s new language to make it sound better- “Oh, your attraction isn’t wrong- but acting on it is- that’s a sin.” This is what that sounds like. I’ve read down in the post and he never states that other gay people being in gay relationships are ok. What do you think of this? Could you include that section of his post in your own post?

    I am happy for this guy- and I could care less who he sleeps with- but if he’s of the camp that says “oh -you’re born gay, yeah, but it’s a sin to act on it- so be chaste” then he’s not that nice. He doesn’t advocate that in his post- but that’s the logical conclusion from his answer.

    And we def don’t need this horrendous ex-gay movement bolstered by anything or anyone.

  14. Ricco says

    I met a beautiful man once, very good looking, who held many gay titles. After years living the typical gay lifestyle of a very good looking gay man, he felt chewed up and spit out. The result was that he married a woman, who had also felt chewed up and spit out by men.

    They found they shared a lot of the same interests, and they got married so the could pursue those interests together.

    He described the sex as forced, though only occasional, but that all other aspects of their life together was good.

    It really is too bad that we did not have to be so defined by gender in its many variations.

    Still, we each of us should be allowed our choices, free from the criticism of others, or at least the condemnation.

  15. says

    the inescapable truth is THIS – he’s a grown-adult man who is still convinced that the choice he is making is the only way to assure his place in Celestial Eternity Planet-Land.

    just sit and think on that, because at the end it is his motivating factor, and thus makes his choices pretty darn sad.

    all of my former-Mormon friends, gay and straight, say the same thing: they were raised to believe that following LDS doctrine was the only way to be happy in life. that without it, all joy would disappear.

    and every single one of them has stated, emphatically, that leaving the LDS’ was the key factor in actually experiencing true happiness and joy in life.

  16. BobN says

    The thing I find most odd about his story is his use of the word “unicorn”. A gay man — or woman — living heterosexually is probably, no, is definitely the most common “gay lifestyle” within Mormonism and in Utah.

    The only thing “unicorn-ish” about it is that he’s honest with her about it, and even that’s not as rare as a unicorn.

    Of course, telling the whole world on your 10th anniversary is rather unique…

  17. ptip says

    @Scott
    Yeah, over at gawker he said that he’s against gay marriage. So if he’s against civil rights for LGBTs, then he’s not truly accepting.

  18. Pete N SFO says

    I don’t know about you guys… but although I can love a woman, I could never make love with a woman. That engine just doesn’t start.

    I too fear, that those that want to promote “choice of a lifestyle” will seize upon this man.

    He may not like the label, bisexual, but the evidence suggests that it what he is.

  19. Jasun Mark says

    JUST what we need.

    More Mormon scum telling us that that we can choose to be straight.

    This time from one of the brainwashed Mormon brain-butchered victims himself. Beaten with the racist, sexist and homophobic doctrine of the Mormon cult, he tries to convince others that he’s happy. That this is normal.

    He’s not, it’s not and she’s not. But cults make it so scary to escape that people willing to do anything to stay in. I would feel sorry for him but I’m pretty sure he knows just how dangerous his words are.

    He can rot with the rest of those pig fuckers, if you ask me.

  20. Bart says

    Put a guy on a desert island with just a tree and he’ll find a way to make that tree his sex partner.

    He has the right to his own pretzel logic and his own life. So does his wife. If they are happy, who is to judge. But to call something “ideal” is to buy into a fantasy, a fairy tale. There’s no such thing. To aspire to a cartoon is a waste of time. I’m in a great relationship with my partner and we have two beautiful children…it wouldn’t be any more “ideal” if we were an opposite sex couple, nor would it be any less. It works for us. That’s all that matters

  21. says

    Great post, save for the tacky little digs at the man’s religion throughout. As an atheist, respecting people’s faiths in the only way I expect my lack thereof to be respected. Classy as always, Brandon.

  22. Caliban says

    This was posted on Gawker and they arranged for Josh Weed to answer questions submitted by readers. I haven’t read all the responses but if you have questions he may have been asked them there.

    While life is complicated and people make all sorts of accommodations peculiar to their situation, that usually comes at a later point when experience has taught us what we can/can’t, will/won’t settle for. Josh has short-circuited that dynamic in deference to a religion that someone quite literally pulled out of a hat (with a “seeing-stone” in it), if not a bodily orifice.

    IMO his wife *deserves* to be with someone who is attracted to her, a relationship where she is not a means to an end for HIM to get what HE wants, children and a “traditional” family. She was the booby prize at her own wedding, which is only slightly mitigated by the fact she knew that going in.

    And though he’s careful not to say every gay person should do what he’s done, how exactly is this different from “ex-gay” teachings? Even though they have accepted that change is NOT possible, the fundamentalists of various stripes have just changed their message to “Do it anyway. Get married and deny yourself, it won’t be THAT bad and you might even find things about it you’ll like.”

    So, “reasonable” as he is I think the overall message is harmful, that subverting self and sexuality to religious and/or tradition is admirable and a worthy goal. Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah, from every Religious Right f8ckstick who comes down the pike. This is just a candy coated version of the same thing.

  23. ohno says

    So if you’re a man who really prefers the company of another man on an /emotional/ level but not necessarily a physical one, why shouldn’t you be able to enter into a homosexual relationship with him?

  24. says

    take solace – not only will he waste his life, and hers, by having a life barely-half lived, when he dies he’s going to realize that it was all, yes, for nothing.

    “WHAT!? i had to be inside vaginas and then i end up in the exact same place as jews, and active orgy-loving gays and muslims and blacks and non-believers!? WHAT!?? this is a RIP OFF!!””

    yeah. well. sorry about that 😀

  25. Caliban says

    This was posted on Gawker and they arranged for Josh Weed to answer questions submitted by readers. I haven’t read all the responses but if you have questions he may have been asked them there.

    While life is complicated and people make all sorts of accommodations peculiar to their situation, that usually comes at a later point when experience has taught us what we can/can’t, will/won’t settle for. Josh has short-circuited that dynamic in deference to a religion that someone quite literally pulled out of a hat (with a “seeing-stone” in it), if not a bodily orifice.

    IMO his wife *deserves* to be with someone who is attracted to her, a relationship where she is not a means to an end for HIM to get what HE wants, children and a “traditional” family. She was the booby prize at her own wedding, which is only slightly mitigated by the fact she knew that going in.

    And though he’s careful not to say every gay person should do what he’s done, how exactly is this different from “ex-gay” teachings? Even though they have accepted that change is NOT possible, the fundamentalists of various stripes have just changed their message to “Do it anyway. Get married and deny yourself, it won’t be THAT bad and you might even find things about it you’ll like.”

    So, “reasonable” as he is I think the overall message is harmful, that subverting self and sexuality to religious and/or tradition is admirable and a worthy goal. Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah, from every Religious Right s**t-bird who comes down the pike. This is just a candy coated version of the same thing. So thanks just loads, but cram it, churchie!

  26. Caliban says

    While life is complicated and people make all sorts of accommodations peculiar to their situation, that usually comes at a later point when experience has taught us what we can/can’t, will/won’t settle for. Josh has short-circuited that dynamic in deference to a religion that someone quite literally pulled out of a hat (with a “seeing-stone” in it), if not a bodily orifice.

    IMO his wife *deserves* to be with someone who is attracted to her, a relationship where she is not a means to an end for HIM to get what HE wants, children and a “traditional” family. She was the booby prize at her own wedding, which is only slightly mitigated by the fact she knew that going in.

    And though he’s careful not to say every gay person should do what he’s done, how exactly is this different from “ex-gay” teachings? Even though they have accepted that change is NOT possible, the fundamentalists of various stripes have just changed their message to “Do it anyway. Get married and deny yourself, it won’t be THAT bad and you might even find things about it you’ll like.”

    So, “reasonable” as he is I think the overall message is harmful, that subverting self and sexuality to religious and/or tradition is admirable and a worthy goal. Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah, from every Religious Right s**t-bird who comes down the pike. This is just a candy coated version of the same thing. So thanks just loads, but cram it, churchie!

  27. Caliban says

    &%#@#!

    Sorry about that. Didn’t mean to post that several times. For whatever reason it wasn’t showing up as it has ALWAYS done before so I posted multiple times.

    Mea Culpa.

  28. Steve says

    Ideally, yeah we’d simply say to each his own and let him be. But he chose to blog about and present himself as some kind of example of how gay people can live. He wants others to emulate him. And as said, other Mormons are going to use him as an example for the ex-gay fantasies. It’s already happening. So by going public with this, he his hurting people.

  29. ohno says

    Cole: So you’re saying, as a gay man I should show respect to a religion that says I’m engaging in sin and going to hell, which then uses this as a justification for platforming against my civil rights?
    Sorry, I’m not respecting that one bit, keep your high horse and stockholm syndrome to yourself.

  30. says

    “Cole” – use your atheistic intellectual discernment to remember that there is indeed a valid time and place to “disrespect a faith” that hinges on disrespecting other faiths, beliefs and walks of life.

    in this case, it’s entirely warranted.

  31. antisaint says

    There are exceptions to rules.

    There was a pastor somewhere a few years back, wasn’t it, who came out to his congregation and made it clear that he informed his wife when they started dating that he was gay. They made a decision to live that life together, and raised children. This story and that are similar ones.

    I don’t get the impression that anyone held a gun to either man’s head and forced him to publicly speak on their situation. I think they did because they are ultimately OK with their situations, and I don’t think every guy in a situation like this is “living a lie,” as some put it.

    But they’re the exception. Is it possible for a gay man to marry a woman and be truly happy with his life? Most likely, but not ALL gay men can do that. Most can’t.

    I’m sure a very, very small percentage of men who have gone through “Ex-Gay” therapy are happy with their lives as ex-gays, but that doesn’t outweigh the damage it does to the majority of men who go through it.

    It’s kind of like how some women will get an abortion, be a little shaken up, and then move on, and some women will fall completely apart and spend years in therapy and become staunchly pro-life. Not all women can handle having an abortion. I think it’s the same idea.

  32. atomic says

    @Cole: “As an atheist, respecting people’s faiths in [sic] the only way I expect my lack thereof to be respected.”

    This is a common logical fallacy committed by progressive-minded individuals, which incorrectly assumes that others will (or should) do unto you as you do unto them. It’s a strange perversion of the Golden Rule.

    Allow me to explain: I live by the Golden Rule to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” because that is what I sincerely believe is the right thing to do, not because I believe doing so will result in others behaving similarly. It doesn’t mean I live my life not expecting people to do bad things to me, just because I avoid doing so to others. The problem here is that not all positions are equally valid. The religious wingnuts will NEVER see how your respect of their beliefs should equate to their respect of your atheism. Through your actions and words, you do not present a model for their behavior towards you, because your position is by definition a disordered and sinful one.

    Does that mean we stop respecting their right to religious freedom? No, of course not. But it is an act of false equivalence to give their viewpoint equal weight. These are people who make scientifically incorrect assertions about the world we live in. I see no logical reason why that must be given due consideration–indeed, it cannot under any evidence-based form of thinking or Socratic discourse.

  33. Chitown kev says

    They probably are the best of friends and perhaps she DOES make a good partner for him To each his or her own…

    It’s an alternative lifestyle he’s living, that’s for sure.

    My problem is the fact that given that he is a mormon, I suspect that he has issues with other alternatives…namely, that a gay people want to be with and mate with other gay people in all ways possible.

    and I do know some gay men who have lived like this with their wives for years and years

  34. Brandon K. Thorp says

    Scott:

    Hey! Thanks for reading. Yes, I read that bit, but I didn’t include it in the blog post for two reasons.

    1) The post was getting too long, which will tend to cut down on the number of people who finish it, read the linked article, and dive into discussion in the comments; and

    2) I thought he’d already issued a fine disclaimer with: “I don’t actually think a family with non-biological members is counterfeit in any way.” The section you quoted is directed towards gay Mormons, and obviously Mr. Weed thinks that being Mormon is way better than being gay. Which is nonsense, of course, but if he truly believes it I think he’s morally obligated to say so, and to stump for his position with all the class and politesse at his disposal. That he’s done so isn’t, I think, very remarkable.

    Cole:

    Thanks for reading. I think I understand your position, but I respectfully disagree. I think you’re correct that disrespecting persons is a terrible idea — but the systematic disrespecting of bad ideas is how the species slowly, torturously identifies good ones. Mormonism, like faith healing, reparative therapy, Nazism, geo-centrism, etc., is a silly idea worth being called out as such. If it’s not silly — if it is, in fact, the correct idea — it will be able to withstand the criticism, and eventually win everyone over to its side.

    Hope you’re all having a great weekend …

    – BKT

  35. Tom says

    Note that his “primary” sex is with a woman. So he’s an adulterer with men? .. Or a church-approved polygamist with dudes (Mormon)? Not that I care – it’s just how he’s going to be used (or is being used) to hammer other gay people into thinking that his relationship ought to be the norm. I tire of religion, so damn dumb.

  36. UFFDA says

    ATOMIC – Picayune. Pedantic. Boring and obvious. However ideal no realistic person seriously “expects” others to follow their example. And we don’t need yours, or your condescending instruction.

  37. e.c. says

    I know he claims that his sex life is great and I’m sure he and the wife share lovely candle-lit nights of profound intimacy. But given that he discounts passion, attraction, lust and infatuation as not being important components of sex I have to wonder about the “robust” part. I’m sure all the bubble baths and back rubs are nice but sometimes you just want someone to do you on the kitchen table because they have to have you NOW. He’s managed to disengage the physical component of the physical act and make it completely a emotional/spiritual/mental exercise. If that’s enough for him (and his wife) fine, but I will respectfully maintain that they are only living half a life.

  38. St. Theresa of Avila says

    This shouldn’t be presented as one of the most “fascinating” things; it should be presented as one of the scariest things. This is just an evolution in the Mormon propaganda machine’s assault on LGBT personhood. They’re sort of acknowledging the implacability of gay attraction, yet trying to say it doesn’t logically connect with a satisfying sex life. For all we know the whole thing could be COMPLETELY made up. He might not actually have same-sex desire…the so-called lesbian therapist may not actually exist. It could be total propaganda. Let’s not forget “lying for the Lord” is a tenet of this cult.

    Religions need people have to “skeletons in the closet”; it keeps them subservient and keeps the strong-arm marketing immersed in a receptive audience. (yes, I’m being playfully metaphorical) If gay families are no longer seen as “counterfeit”, the Mormons who stay in the church to feed their self-hatred will no longer do so. I see this as another prong in what I’m calling the “summer of hate” – the big-last ditch effort to foment homophobia in the electorate and hopefully contribute to the defeat of Barack Obama. The naivity of some people here is astonishing; you evidently never get out of your warm cocoons of Dupont, West Hollywood, Manhattan, etc. 90% of the people who read this mormon slimebag’s website will think “you see, they can change after all”.

  39. Tarc says

    It’s not like that situation is that odd; I know two couples that are monogamously married where the wife knew that the husband was gay right up front. Both guys married women that they loved, and the wanted kids and the social life that a traditional marriage would provide. I sure as hell would never do that (my partner of 20 years and I are both make and perfectly gay), but I guess I can’t harsh on their arrangement. I’ve seen many gay arrangements that are far more unusual (and complicated), and the gay community seems to be willing to support open marriages, swinging, polyarmory, and all kinds of other romantic entanglements. In fact, the only thing I have a problem with with the couple in the article is that they are Mormon…

  40. St. Theresa of Avila says

    @ATOMIC, @LittleKiwi…exactly. Some liberals like that anodyne little expression “I respect your beliefs”. No, you don’t respect their beliefs or you’s HAVE those beliefs. You might respect their RIGHT to believe the world is 5000 years old, that the Arc held all the animals, etc. etc.

    BTW the Mormon huckster isn’t telling anybody intelligent what they already didn’t know. Straight men can have prison sex, this guy can have Mormon sex. Does that make either one “right”? To the poster who said the equipment just wont get started with a woman, try being with the woman and imagining that you can never, ever have sex with a man and if you do you will suffer internal torment in Hell. Let that fester in your brain for you several years, turning you into a borderline sociopath. Now, your equipment might be able to get started!

  41. Saul Green says

    Am I understanding this correctly? He’s f-cking her up the ass – but a couple of times is slid in to make the kids? And what about the children? Has anyone thought about how they’re going to explain this to them? Snooze.

  42. says

    20 years ago, freshly out and newly moved on Capital Hill, I joined a gay married men’s(support for wives included) group and a gay father’s group. It shook my world at first to learn there are as many permutations of human relationships as there are people in the wide world. I was especially struck by the number of open, honest marriages gay men had with wives who were on board, but as couples had no intention of ending their marriages over sexuality. It was a milestone for me to learn how complex, creative and fiercely loving our human race can be. It’s only coercion of hiding, promotion of bullying, fomenting false shame, tolerating ridicule, promulgation of ignorance and misinformation, the establishment of religious condemnation on the part of the state, liars and their lies, that diminish and twist the potential we have to be our best possible selves.

  43. Ted says

    Followning on these comments, I would like to point out that it seems from his blog that Josh has never had sex with a man even though he identifies as gay. So he has nothing to compare his great het sex life with. He is really missing the possibility of a connection so significant, on emotional + physical levels, he cannot comprehend it. He doesn’t know what it is to have a physical union with someone that you love and are also atracted to. I know the feeling as I didn’t make that connecttion until I turned 40. So he has no standing to make his comments, he is ignornant.

    And I would not care, he can be happy in his own little world, but for the fact that I agree with the many commenters here that this reeks of ex-gay work in sheep’s clothing.

  44. Bob says

    MORMONITY!!!!!!! can everyone kind of see how this twisted group thinks it has the right to be the ringleaders of blocking Gay marriage? Their religion is their whole life….. And the are afraid that Gay moreholes would want to marry in the temple

  45. Bob says

    MORMONITY!!!!!!! can everyone kind of see how this twisted group thinks it has the right to be the ringleaders of blocking Gay marriage? Their religion is their whole life….. And the are afraid that Gay moreholes would want to marry in the temple

  46. Dave says

    Sorry, not buying it for a second. He may not want to define as bi, but he is. Gay men may have had some sexual experience with a woman – heck, in our teens, all men would have sex with anything that moves – and some things that don’t. But when a man is gay, his primary sexual attraction is to men; women simply don’t stoke the fire.

  47. Paul B. says

    Yes, yes, yes…this guy is pathetic and misguided. OK, now that we’re all in agreement about that…can someone please tell a joke or something? Remember…we’re supposed to be GAY!

  48. KP says

    According to one of the commenters on Gawker, this guy works for a LSD clinic that peddles two solutions for being gay: celibacy and marrying a person of the opposite sex. I don’t care if he and his wife are happy or not but I do fear people like him are just tools of the whole ex-gay movement. (By the way, what the hell has Gawker done to its comment sections – its like they want their page views to drop_

  49. Angela Channing says

    I have always said, a strong imagination, a dimmer switch, and some hootch can make anything happen. (Maybe not the hootch part since he is a Mormon. LOL)

  50. KP says

    Found the following response from Josh when asked about gay marriage (From Gawker comments):

    “I guess I can say three things: 1. I want people to feel loved and accepted. 2. I have what I consider to be legitimate fears that when marriage equality is finalized (and I think the times indicate that it is only a matter of time until that happens), there will then be religious persecution when religious institutions want to opt out of providing same-sex marriages because of their doctrines. Because this nation was founded, in part, by those seeking religious freedom, that seems rather foreboding to me. But I’m no political scientist and wouldn’t claim to be. 3. Ultimately I suspect the solution would be some kind differentiation between marriage as a religious rite and civil unions as a binding legality, for everybody and not just gay people. I don’t know if clean lines could be drawn though. I think we kind of messed things up in the beginning by having religious marriage and legal union so intertwined. I think that everyone should have the advantage of civil unions. I think that marriage as a religious rite should be governed by religions themselves.”

    Another wolf in sheep’s clothing.

  51. Rhea says

    Also, how in the world can he ‘perform’ sexually if he’s at least not attracted to his wife? So wouldn’t that at least make him bisexual?

  52. jamal49 says

    Look for the Mittster presumptive nominee to obliquely refer to this when he’s garnering his bona fides with the evangelical crowd that is still skeptical of Mormons.

    I’ll take Mr. Weed’s word that he is gay but in a marriage with a woman. One can’t use the word “heterosexual” to describe his marriage because if he is gay, then it is a non-traditional marriage of one gay man and one straight woman.

    Here’s what I have a problem with (and I may have missed it reading the above article or browsing over at Gawker) but has Mr. Weed ever had sex with another man? I don’t think he mentions that he has. Therefore, what is that sense he has of himself that he can call himself “gay”?

    Is it that he is actively and currently attracted to men? When he is out with his wife, do they discuss how attractive Mr. Weed might find another man? Does Mr. Weed have sex with other men outside his marriage? Did he have sex with men before he married his wife?

    This is a very strange declaration by Mr. Weed and I am sure that this will get stirred into the propaganda stew that the Mormon church is brewing in order that Mitt Romney, candidate presumptive of the Republican Party, has something to take–obliquely–to that elusive and Mormon-averse evangelical base he is going to need in order to win in November 2012.

    I want very much to believe Mr. Weed, that he is blissfully happy in his marriage and with his “robust” sex life. He even manages to mention that it is not just about sex, but something much more profound that makes his relationship with his wife work so well.

    Mr. Weed also does not mention whether or not he counsels gay or lesbian couples to overcome their relationship difficulties in a strictly homosexual context.

    What I worry about is that this will once again be part of that heterosexual, evangelical, conservative mindset that it is all about “choices” and that one can “choose” not to live the “gay lifestyle”.

    Sorry, Josh. Sorry, everyone else. Even in my most impersonal sexual interaction with another man, it is still more fulfilling to the absolute core of my being that any sexual relation I have had with a woman.

    I make no sense here. But, in this very volatile culture we LGBT people are fighting, for every “Josh” there are tens of thousands of “not Joshes” who are gay and no amount of “soul-mating” is ever going to get a 100% gay man or 100% lesbian to have fulfilling “robust” sex with someone of the opposite sex.

    That is a fact of our lives and of natural life in general.

    I am happy that you’re happy, Josh. But that’s YOU. And, you’re gonna have to give me a hell of a lot more proof that you are “gay” for me to, um, swallow this declaratory verbal ejaculation that you currently are spewing forth.

  53. Francis says

    I don’t know why anyone thinks this is going to somehow harm our community or lead to people believing that all gays can/should live as straight. Because the reality is, most people see Mormons as crazy and will see this man as damaged, deluded and sad. The only people who are really going to be affected by this are boys and girls who are raised in Mormon/religious cultures who are tragically pushed into living a life which is unnatural to them. That is who needs to be protected and thought of here.

    As for Josh, I couldn’t care less. He’s anti-gay marriage, so obviously, his views are not shaped around “wanting to have a family”, and he doesn’t identify as ex-gay. He’s just another brainwashed Mormon. Not anything else needed to be said about it.

  54. Amy Cirngeneck says

    …and reinforcing negative stereotypes of the hypersexualized LGBTQI community by basing his argument on how much sex he’s getting.

  55. TJ says

    Marriage as a religious rite would seem rightfully performed and constricted according to the tenets of the particular religion. Makes perfect sense to me. Marriage as a legal institution is something entirely different, as is the concept of marriage as something that benefits both the individuals involved as well as society. A legal marriage is a civil union. A civil union as a separate category, however, is not a marriage. No second class status, no separate and inherently unequal category, please.

  56. Rich says

    I see this as no great departure from the nonsense that comes out of the “Ex-Gay” movement, he just seems to be a congenial person. Many ex-gay therapies uphold that while a person cannot change their sexual attractions, through prayer they may find the strength to live celibately or marry a woman.

    Ultimately this man is just as harmful as any ex-gay loon, because unaccepting parents of gay children will google conversion therapy and put this guy forward as a role-model.

  57. says

    i don’t know why he’s worried that legalizing marriage for same-sex couples is going to, in any way, affect the LDS.

    he makes it rather clear that gay Mormons dont have it in them to ask, or demand, to get married within the church , in a temple.

  58. Dana Chilton says

    he lives his life as an example to everyone that being gay doesn’t mean having to act on homosexual feelings,that gay men can have sexually fulfilled lives with a woman, and that the LDS religion really isn’t anti-gay. Congratulations towleroad on supporting this ‘bold sexual rebel’ and allowing us to finally see just how wonderful a life we can all have if we just allow ourselves to look past our wants and embrace the truth that love knows no gender and our fight for ‘equality’ really is just a political agenda, our families really are ‘less than ideal'; especially for children,how we really do choose our lifestyles, and how Mormons really do understand the truth about how gay people can be really happy in this life- in a fun, happy, spiritually fulfilled, productive heterosexual marriage. How’s that for sarcasm?

  59. Jose S says

    I am sorry, but I laughed out loud throughout this post, in fact it is the only time I’ve laughed in a while on Towle.

    Seriously why should I believe what a member of a dysfunctional cult has to say?

  60. anon says

    The problem with blogging and other types of publishing is that once you put words into stone you will want to keep defending them indefinitely. If there are any lies, half-truths or omissions in his statements the defense over time will get progressively more ridiculous. It’s a slow motion car wreck of a story. We really can’t verify any of his claims.

    There are many societies that have the practice of arranged marriage, and so two sexually incompatible people will get together and reproduce. Typically there are outlets in such societies for sexual fulfillment, though normally only for men. His situation, therefore, is common elsewhere but modern society can do better.

  61. jexer says

    Homosexuality is as much about whom we fall in love with as it is whom we fall in lust with.

    Obviously men can and will stick their junk in just about anything, and get less picky about it as their desperation increases.

    If this guy has fallen in love with a woman and claims to enjoy sex with her, despite how much he might want to have sex with men… that makes him ‘bi’, not gay, as far as I care.

    I wish him luck with his over-rationalized compromised life. If he works hard at the illusion of happiness, it may last him for years.

  62. sara says

    This is part of the Mormon’s reparative ex gay therapy under the label “Affirmation: Gay & Lesbian” . This group is sponsored by the church.

    When someone comes out as gay to the church they’re sent to these groups to discuss their options. One of the groups consist of gay men married to straight women. They counsel them on how this is a viable option for them & how happy they could be in these type of marriage.

    Considering some of the people coming to get counseled are already suicidal this type of counseling can be quite dangerous.

    Towle when posting this needed to consider this is not just some personal story —it can be used to do harm.

    Just a few days ago Benji Schwimmer of SYTYCD did a series of videos where he discussed talking to these very group of gay men/ married to straight wife groups in the Mormon Church & how they were convincing him to do just that as a solution for his gayness.

    It’s when his fallback plan of marriage to a woman got torpedoed(the woman said she couldn’t handle being married to a gay man. She’d always be worried) that he went into a complete breakdown because he saw his only option disappear.

  63. shane says

    Devious actors playing out a script written for them over these last few weeks, after Obama came out for gay marriage. REHEARSED and SCRIPTED.

  64. Steve says

    The guy has simply been totally brainwashed. You can read it all over his piece. He built himself the life the church expects/demands from him, while judging everyone who doesn’t adhere to it. That’s all there is to it. In his cult, nothing else was an option for him. In particular, notice how derisive of the woman who has a non-biological child. Something he doesn’t consider to be a real parent/child relationship because that’s what his church told him to. That he then has to clarify is position is just his intellect failing to override his gut instinct.

  65. says

    As a HOMOSEXUAL man, I am attracted to men, have dated, slept and all the fun stuff with men. There has been one woman in my 30 years of life, whom while finding NO VAGINA attractive, I have had the ultimate attraction to. It had nothing to do with religion, wanting to have kids, or me settling for another type of life to avoid my NORMAL life that some might cause deviant. I loved her. I loved her with the pureness of who we both were. She was and is still to this day one of the best people I’ve had the privilege to know. Yes we did sleep together for a while and I had no trouble with it and she knew I was gay, but did not care because she knew who I was beyond that label that we place on each other. In Dr Who, Torchwood all the witty sitcoms out there, people move past sexuality or the label of the identity that we stick too… even in some modern cultures they do this. THere is no stigma to being with a man or a woman because they exist solely beyond the justification of the pleasure of release and enjoy the metaphysical experience that two people can very much share when sex is more than random. We spilt up because she was moving and I had no interest to move with her and the whole time, we both only saw each other. To this day, she is married to an amazing heterosexual man and I am married to an amazing homosexual man whom we both found as attractive as people can be beyond their skin.

  66. Barbara says

    Mormon Magic. I respect honesty within a marriage & she knows that he knows. I don’t believe these two are so gloriously happy & certainly feel sad for the, if not already, soon to be brainwashed, kids. I don’t get how Lolly can accept a marriage where her husband is imagining her as a “Larry” each night. Crazy!

  67. doogiehowsah says

    “Fascinating”? On the contrary, I find this story ridiculously dull. Gays have lived sexually functional heterosexual lives since the invention of the idea of sexual identity a few hundred years ago, and countless researchers have pointed out the malleability and range of sexual behavior. Moreover, this man’s defensive “logic,” that equivocates the “sacrifice” of being gay in an anti-gay society with the “sacrifice” of sex with a gender you’re not that into, is both patently offensive and very, very sad. Ultimately, though, both gays and straights marry (and have sex with) people for whom physical attraction isn’t necessarily that strong, obviously, duh, and this dude’s taking way too much pleasure and pride in himself for being some sort of revolutionary. Yuck. Please stop talking about him.

  68. FunMe says

    Something is really, really “off” with that Josh. He truly sounds crazy. I don’t care his justifications and his blah, blah, blah’s … the guy is brainwashed. He is a bi-sexual in denial. Whatever.

    If that’s his “thing”, fine with me and society. Go live your life whatever way you want, even if it’s weird. He better just not go around trying to “change” others into his warped thinking.

  69. Rocco says

    Eww….on so many levels…eww. Ok, got that outta the way. He seems bisexual to me, but he gets to define himself I guess. Where he crosses the line is trying to extrapolate. He doesn’t get to define others, or their experience. Basic therapy premise…speaking of which…we’re in the process of outlawing reparative “therapy” here in California….”even” for teens. I’m sure that will take 100 years to reach Utah,if it ever does. I could abide other components of his “philosophy” if he weren’t so intolerant of civil rights for LGBT folks. We deserve the same rights as heterosexuals. Period.

  70. lcaruca says

    This is sad on so many levels.

    The worst part, however, is this type of behavior is alive and well within the mormon church.

    My younger brother is following the same exact routine. Years ago he admitted that his sexual orientation is towards men but that didn’t matter, only his sexual behavior mattered.

    Since then, he has married an extremely orthodox and devout mormon woman, has had two kids, and is “profoundly happy” with his life.

    My mormon siblings put him on a very high pedestal as a shining example of how one can “do away” with the gay. With an undertone of “wink wink” to me (no worries there, I dropped away from the mormon church in my early teens and rather enjoy my black sheep status).

    My non-mormon siblings and I wonder how long it will be till the brainwashing wears thin.

    I’m most concerned about the kids. And how my brother will one day look back at his life and how it could have been much more fulfilling and joyous if he was just willing to accept who he is rather than bury it in the mormon doctrine.

    never underestimate the power of denial . . . throw in a dash of mormonism with said denial and the results are truly scary.

  71. billydee4 says

    When I was 23 I wanted to try sex with a woman. I met my future wife through a man I was having a relationship with. We had sex. She got pregnant. We decided to get married to insure my paternity. After the birth we would go our separate ways but both raise the child. Our daughter died at birth. I really liked the thought of having children so we stayed married and had two sons. For the first five years I was still having sex regularly with my ex-boyfriend and others. It was very frustrating every time I met a man I was strongly attracted to, knowing that, as long as I was married, a close relationship was impossible.
    We were living about 45 miles north of Chicago and I was working in Chicago, so it was easy for me to go out after work. I grew up in Chicago and had many gay friends there. Later I started working closer to my home. There wasn’t much of a gay community where I lived and the gay people I knew there were not as liberated as the people I knew in Chicago.
    I became more and more frustrated as the years went on. I felt more and more isolated. I started drinking heavily and became very hard to live with. I wasn’t abusive, but I was morose and depressed all the time. A few days after our 13th anniversary my wife was killed in a car accident. It was hard for me to adjust to the change. I missed her but I also felt liberated. Fortunately my sons were very devoted to me and helped me through this period. They helped me stay sober and I had free time to spend with my gay friends.
    One of the side effects of our being married was that two of my gay friends decided they could get married to women, too. One marriage ended in an amicable divorce. The other man claims he was never gay to begin with. He seemed to know what he was doing when we had sex, but that’s his problem.
    Marriage between gay men and women may work for some people. I think this man is just deluding himself.

  72. Bill says

    O.K. So he married his fag-hag. He’s not the first gay guy to do that. My only question: How does he get it up for her? Or better said; what does he think about in order to get it up for her? Well, I guess that’s not my only question because I’d also like to know, since he’s probably never had sex with anyone else, how does he know that the sex he has with her is awesome? BTW, I bet he doesn’t eat her out!

  73. Scott says

    So basically… He fantasizes about MEN while having sex with his wife.. Phew.. that could have been a lot easier than hid rambling, beat around the bush blog..

  74. Brad says

    As a former Mormon, I know lots of men just like Josh who think they can eat their cake and have it too. Every single one of them at some point left his “soul mate” despite having kids and being so blissfully “happy” and settled down with a man. He’s so afraid of leaving the Mormon church he’s doing everything he can to make it work. I know, I almost fell into that trap myself. He’s being used by the LDS church and he doesn’t even know it. Sorry, but I just don’t believe him. One is not gay by who they have sex with, one is gay by who they fall in love with. One day Josh will probably meet a man who will knock him off his feet and next thing you know, the wife is left far behind. That will be a hard day for both of them and especially for their children. I just don’t believe him. I also think that anyone who thinks he’s attracted to men but wants to deny same-sex marriage is a huge HYPOCRITE and a self-hating bigot!

  75. Matt says

    I’m so sick and tired of the fundies pushing this “choice” thing on us, and then showing we can “choose” to be straight. Here’s a novel idea; show me a straight person who “chooses” to be gay. Yeah, I thought so. This guy is probably one of the gayest fruits in the fruitcup, but he isn’t homosexual. Homosexuality is physical and emotional attraction to members of the same sex. It’s more than just sex, it’s an emotional need as well. He doesn’t qualify for either, as he’s good with being emotionally attached to a woman, as well as having sex with her. At best, he’s bisexual, but since he has no real history with men, that is up for debate. I’m calling him a fundie liar, and moving on.

    All you bi advocates who say that love has no gender, blah, blah, blah, JUST BECAUSE you like it doesn’t mean it will work for me, or other gay men and women, or even straight men and women. You do what you want, but let the rest of us do what we want without hearing how the world would be better without sexual orientation or gender labels. Most of us like that because most of us are genuinely attracted to one sex or the other, but not both. Why? We don’t know, but why should it matter? Our bodies, hearts, and minds say it’s right, so it’s right.

  76. redball says

    There is some truly fascinating stuff that’s been written about heteroROMANTIC homoSEXUAL people and (vice versa) homoROMANTIC heteroSEXUAL people.

    i wonder if josh is the former. for example, does he (or would he) enjoy j/o’ing to nude male porn?? that would be a simple litmus test.

  77. redball says

    BILLYDEE4…wow…just wow. If that story is true, it’s a whole new show waiting to be scripted. Just as juicy as Desperate Housewives.

  78. redball says

    ATOMIC, you put into words perfectly what i find so disgusting and infuriating about some of these religions and associated asininity such as Creationism:

    “Does that mean we stop respecting their right to religious freedom? No, of course not. But it is an act of false equivalence to give their viewpoint equal weight. These are people who make scientifically incorrect assertions about the world we live in. I see no logical reason why that must be given due consideration–indeed, it cannot under any evidence-based form of thinking or Socratic discourse.”

    YES!

  79. scott says

    Thank you Brandon for replying to my comment :-)

    And thank you for the providing the rationale- but your posts could never be too long or boring. However, I think Josh should preface or update his post to clarify that he does not want his story to be used to force gay people into straight relationships- or to state he thinks they can and should. The “non-biological” comment was weak and doesn’t necessarily mean gay relationships; taken literally, it could apply to neither straight or gay relationships- only to children and their parents, whether they’re the biological offspring or not.
    As another poster pointed out- he has stated in a Gawker’s commenting area that he has concerns about allowing marriage equality. And he already stated that he believes children should only have a mother and a father.
    He seems like a sweet guy-but I fear unless he clarifies he’s for his fellow guys and girl’s rights- he’ll be used as a posterboy for their campaign. And he should be. Most of the people commenting on here and Gawker were supportive of him. I hope he states he supports us, too. And not in an unambiguous “oh love them-love them…. but your actions are still sin” kind of way.

  80. jpcolter says

    I don’t believe a word this guy says. The only thing that will come of this is a few years from now he’ll have used up years of his wife’s life and his own. Talk about kidding yourself.

  81. Randy says

    I don’t see the problem.

    Old people manage to have good sex, and have you seen them? (By the way, barring some fatality, we’re all going to BE them, so get ready). Hookers manage to have (some) good sex, and they can’t just pick who they’re attracted to. At some point, attraction simply can’t be the determining factor any more.

    Love doesn’t care about gender.
    And sex doesn’t either.

    That’s why it’s not unheard of for straight guys to be in long term sexual relationships with gay guys. But we don’t usually complain about that here…

    But it does work best for a lot of people when love and attraction line up, and it can go horribly wrong when someone’s in the closet. And that’s why we should have the freedom to love who we love, without discrimination, and we shouldn’t worry about this particular couple becoming some sort of poster couple for the anti-gay crowd.

  82. PasserBy says

    I stumbled upon this, as it is linked from the blog post itself. Reading through these comments, I really appreciate that “intent and motivation are everything.” Absolutely they are; nothing else matters. And I agree that the subtle use of “ideal” was (likely) unintentionally degrading. I also found it eerie that on his blog, all he received was extremely positive feedback and hardly any push back at all. A handful of comments were removed and I too would be interested to know what sort of comments were removed and why. I find his aversion to the term “bisexual” somewhat of a oddity.

    However, it feels like very few here actually read the article. He very pointedly stated that though this lifestyle works for him, and that he in no way advocates that this is generalizable or applicable to others. It seems that many read the headline: “Gay Mormon is Married with kids” and all the readers’ biases towards faith and particularly Mormons were applied to Josh and his situation.

    Sadly, though, I think the general sentiment expressed here will be realized: other Mormons will use this as an example to push individuals into unhealthy directions, though this isn’t the intent of the author’s post.

    Josh is authentic in what he says; I know him and his wife. His story/post is not Mormon propaganda, nor is it fictional or made up. He doesn’t know anybody of any kind of influence in the Mormon faith. This has absolutely no political affiliation or relevance. He is a staunch liberal and advocates for Obama (a minority in his faith group); I’m not sure what sort of ‘ally’ he would be to conservatives.

    His ability to participate in his religion will be curtailed for no other reason than he has stated this: that he is attracted to men. He anticipated that he’d be sidelined but chose to do this all the same. The fact is, he observed the inconsistency in advising youth to be true to themselves and come out, not having come out himself. He clearly states this under the first of many questions. But again, it seems that few here cared to read that.

    On a site full of individuals who have been marginalized and mistreated for who they are, I find it sadly ironic that you all have “the cure” for Josh – something you hate the Mormon church for telling their own. Shame on you.

  83. MateoM says

    Passerby, we’re also responding to Josh’s comments on the Gawker article. He made some illusions to the fact that he would coach his homosexual patients towards more traditional lifestyles, like marriage, as a solution.

  84. ptip says

    @Passerby
    The fact that he forced himself to marry a woman despite being gay shows that he finds homosexuality deplorable. He talks a good talk, but actions speak louder than words. You really think he’s counseling gay kids to accept themselves when he can’t even accept himself?

  85. JM says

    This is just the next wave of the ex-gay movement. I’m surprised so many blogs are falling for such an obvious mormon marketing ploy. Like the “I’m a Mormon” youtube videos, this is just advertising. Very tedious.

  86. epic says

    i just can’t resist….this is just so much more dangerous…this is more then his life, this is what he promotes as alternative for the gay mormons he counsels….its just as twisted, just with a sugar coating the other anti-gay wingnuts are making the lives of the innocent gay youth a hell on earth.

  87. Thisguy says

    If you have to jump through this many hoops to justify who you have sex with, you’re doing it wrong. Religion are fairy tales and basing your life around one is incredibly sad and just insane as these types of people demonstrate time and time again.

  88. Mk_ultra says

    Imagine for a second that GLBT community are Jews in pre Nazi Germany.

    Well, the Nazis are telling us “Look, we even march in your Pride parades. You have nothing to fear from us…”

    And Hans Weed here says “I’m Jewish too, you can trust me. The Nazis really care about you. They just want discussion. They just want to move you into more “comfortable” neighbourhoods.

    I don’t think I have to tell anybody that the Mormons are pn a huge PR campaign now that they have a chance of getting one of their own into the oval office. I don’t think I need to tell anybody that part of that capaign isnan attempt to normalize their image and seem less extreme.

    I’m sure I don’t need to remind anyone that wrapper jas changed, the insidebis still a gross product t
    hat doesn’t approve of gay rights, and believes that living tje “gay lifestyle” is not an option.

    Don’t fall for tye whole “we support you with pretty words (semantics) but don’t pay attention to our actions, like funding anti gay causesbto the tune of billions, whixh tell a different and truer story.” garbage that yhey spew

  89. Shane says

    Funny thing is I was married to Lolly’s childhood best friend. I was also a Mormon. In fact Lolly was my ex-wife’s matron of honor in our wedding. I had met my ex-wife in high school when I was 15, and soon afterward we dated from 16 to 21. All the while I was gay.
    I know Josh and Lolly very well, or did, it’s been a few years since I have spent time with them. My ex-wife and I divorced 6 years ago after I finally couldn’t handle lying to myself and more importantly to her. I admitted I was gay our first year of marriage, and she has since admitted she knew long before, since our high school years, but had decided denial was easier for her. I love her to this day, but I know no matter how much I loved her I could never make her happy in all the ways she deserved.
    We had sex, and actually at times, it was a healthy sex life, but I truly was disgusted with myself and the act. We did marriage counseling and tried many things to try and “make it work”. I went through with it all, because I loved her so much.
    She has since told me that she is so much more fullfilled as a person, and more importantly as a woman having met a straight guy that truly finds her to be the most fetching thing he has ever seen.
    I love Josh and Lolly and even though I know them pretty well, I truly understand their love for each other, their children and their commitments to their faith and covenents thay made in the temple. But I don’t understand staying together.
    We have often laughed about how much our lives were the same, the girls being best friends having met and married gay guys. But due to the religion and the pressures put upon us by our parents, and religious leaders, I felt like I had to be someone I wasn’t.
    I have since left the church and accepted who I am. If there is a God, then I think he would much more want me to experience true love and self acceptence. And live my life in a truly authentic way.
    I wish Josh and Lolly the best.
    My ex-wife and I just couldn’t live our life like theirs.

  90. anony6 says

    He presents a false choice when revealing his discussion with the psychologist. Either have a real family and be sexually unfulfilled, or be sexually fulfilled without a real family. But real family’s can come in many forms. And while love can come in many forms aswell, love without sexual attraction in a romantic relationship is a soup missing a few ingredients. He has imposed these choices on himslef. There are same-sex couples who are in love, very attracted to each, and with real families.

    And to describe sexual attraction as a distraction from intimacy is asinine.

    Point blank, he took an easy safe route. Going out into the big bad gay world, and facing a bigoted society is just too much for some people. Hence why he has never even been with a man. The quest for true love and attraction can be daunting. If sexual attraction was removed as a criteria for marriage, alot more people would be married. But getting married just for the sake of getting married by making marriage easier doesn’t necessarily make the union ideal or even worthwhile. I don’t think he knows what he is missing.

  91. Steven says

    Wow. For a group that advocates, nay, DEMANDS acceptance, (this is directed at the angry gays and gay advocates in here) I’m sure not hearing much of it in these comments. All I’ve noticed is people deriding this major life decision and his religion. Hypocrisy much?

  92. says

    You can be straight or gay all your life, and suddenly you fall for a PERSON. You fall for that person’s verve, and life, and love, and sparkle. The fact that they are the same/opposite sex MEANS NOTHING because you love them. You love everything about them and want to spend your life with them. Sexuality isn’t strict, nor is it governed by rules.

    Humans try to impose rules, and control, but attraction doesn’t listen, thank goodness.

    I may fall in love with a woman, but that doesn’t meant I am attracted to all women. I ccan be attracted to the ONE person, because of who and what they are, what they mean tome, what they embody.

    It’s not so strange, and this article seems to be rather of the point and laugh variety. Digs about the man’s religion are uncalled for, but also TOTALLY unneccessary.

    It makes no difference, gay or straight. Love has no such rules, no such impositions and yes, I’ve been there.

    He sounds like a very kind, and very sensible person, and neither person in that relationship is ‘suffering’ or ‘settling’.

    How sad that people can’t just be happy for them, they have to turn them into an oddity.

  93. Rocco says

    Lisa, I suppose I can’t argue with your basic premise, as I have encountered some of those people…most of them bisexual, most of them women.

    I think what you may not understand about a lot of folks on here is how much we have been harmed by proponents of “reparative therapy,”or harangued by people who claim anyone can become “straight,” or bisexual. There is such a person as a “Kinsey Six,” I am one. I’m not the only one.

    I’m sure the couple in this article are fine people. They get to be who they want to be. They don’t get to tell me who to be, or define/ describe my experience (sexuality). They don’t get to decide my civil rights, my husband’s, or my children’s, that’s where they get into trouble: trying to regulate others.

    I hope this makes sense to you, & doesn’t seem hostile…take care…

  94. Rocco says

    Oh, and about the religion thing…the Mormon church was a major player in passing Prop. 8 here in California. Then there’s an awful history about what almost all organized religions have done to LGBT folks for several centuries…that would account for a lot of the hostility you noticed here.

  95. JD says

    If they’re happy, good for them.

    But please don’t tell me that you have a great sex life with a woman if you’re only attracted to men.
    He says:
    “The truth is, what people are really asking with the above question is “how can you be gay if your primary sex partner is a girl?” ”

    That is not my question at all. My question is: How can you think you have a “healthy, robust sex life” with a woman, if you are sexually attracted to ONLY MEN?

    You’re both living a lie to fit in with your religion. It’s totally beyond my comprehension how you can be an out gay man, and live as a hetero. You cannot tell me that on some level, maybe when you’re not blogging, you’re not happy.

  96. warren says

    So he’s attracted to men yet is married to a woman and has sex with her… this is not shocking news.

    There are plenty of married/partnered people who have sex with their chosen one and are highly attracted to completely different people in both orientation camps. Acting on those feelings are different from having them.

    He is not claiming that he is ex gay, or living a lie. He is simply choosing to not act on his nature. Just as we have the right to act on our nature. The truth is we all make decisions every day and do the best we can with the results of those decisions.

  97. Karel says

    I’m 99.5% heterosexual: there have been one or two effeminate gay guys in my life I’ve been seriously attracted to, in the middle an endless cavalcade of women.

    The guy’s religion does raise legitimate suspicion, but I’m in the camp that says he should be taken at his word, and also that this is a mostly irrelevant example for everyone else. He should absolutely not be taken as a model for people who want to “change,” because there should be NO REASON for anyone with an ordinary homosexual orientation to want to change, as there’s no reason to regard an ordinary homosexual orientation with opprobrium. Only those bigots who do have any interest in making people “change,” and they completely disregard the interests of those that they want to change. The stigma surrounding homosexuality has to go away before this guy’s example (if indeed he is being honest) can be seen in its proper context.

    And I was going to add something vulgar about what his wife lets him do in bed, but I’ll leave it at that.

  98. So what? says

    Not only is this man’s story entirely unremarkable, he completely misses the point.

    Throughout most of the 20th century, most LGBT people lived their lives this way. We were forced to by legal and social sanctions that harshly penalized those of us who came put of the closet or even discreetly acted on our feelings. While some of the most serious legal sanctions have been eliminated and the social sanctions have eased, there are still penalties for being an out LGBT person. Far more of us are out today, but some still live in fear. I can only say “So what?” to Mr. Weed’s story.

    What he ignores or misses is that the majority of his peers — Mormons, Christians and others — have worked very hard at maintaining the legal and social sanctions that penalize us and some of his peers have said they would put other legal penalties, such as sodomy laws, back on the books if they could. One could argue that Mr. Weed tells his story to put a kinder, gentler face on the prejudice that underlies the efforts of his peers.

    When Josh Weed puts as much time and energy into condemning the hatred and violence (That violence comes in a number of forms) of his peers then I might believe that he holds to this notion of loving the sinner, but until he has done that loudly and consistently, I don’t give a damn what he thinks.

  99. UFFDA says

    LISA is right and PASSERBY has added a lot of interesting/powerful stuff (many people have) even though many also seem threatened, perhaps understandably.

    There’s everything under the sun here below and it’s all simultaneous…but I am sorry that Josh’s story will be used by the fundies to short circuit the authentic feelings and life of many gay people. Still, I believe that when they persist people manage to swim through the net of convention in the opposite direction and find their right place. It’s condemning religions that need to change (and are) not gay people (who are winning through the force of nature itself).

  100. Randy says

    “”She chose to have a family in a way that is different than the ideal”

    Really? That’s very strange, because all the opposition to marriage equality is that all children MUST have the ideal family of one father and one mother. All other arrangements amount to child abuse, and must be avoided at all costs.

    And here she is proud to say her family situation is not ideal. I only wish she were as fair with gays who want to marry.

  101. alan says

    Interesting.. and complicated… I see some validity in what he says… and you will know why… however, I’d like to hear from him again in 30 years. I’d like to hear from him, after the children are gone, when it is just he and his wife.. will he still be a gay virgin.. we will see…

  102. Matt says

    I’m sure this has already been mentioned, but I didn’t feel like reading through 117 comments.

    What’s frustrating about this story is that because they are both US citizens, no one is swooping in and breaking up their marriage on fraud grounds.

    Immigrants who marry American citizens have to jump through all sorts of hoops to “prove” that the marriage is real, if they want to apply for a green card or citizenship. If an official were to learn that the immigrant partner were gay, and especially if the immigrant partner self-identified as gay, then the application would be denied outright because the marriage is a “fraud.” And the immigrant partner risks deportation and denial of any future visas to the US.

    So while it’s great for this man to identify as gay, marry a straight woman, and have the life he wants, it’s a shame that so many of our LGBT brothers and sisters do not have the same experience.

  103. andrew says

    It is not possible to be only sexually attracted to men and have a “healthy and robust” sex life with a woman. That just ain’t the way human sexuality works.

  104. truthteller says

    What bothers me about blogs like Josh’s is the underlining ideology they push; that you should be UNAUTHENTIC to be okay.

    They claim it is not a sin to be gay but to “act out” on it is. What the hell does that mean?

    Let me put it this way so we can grasp the absurdity: Having brown skin is not a sin, but not changing it to white with skin bleaches to imitate the majority is.

    Make no mistake about it. His post is meant as propaganda to influence others to follow his “choice.”

    We should be working to become more authentic, not to resign ourselves to what someone’s ideology says is ideal for us to be. And we should fight every hideous agenda that demean our value as whole, valuable and authentic human beings.

  105. truthteller says

    This, from his blog, says all I need to know to judge where Josh’s agenda: “First and foremost, my clinical work as a therapist is taking me in the direction of helping clients who struggle to reconcile their sexual orientation with their religious beliefs.”

    Still don’t believe he’s preaching religion based “conversion therapy?”

  106. says

    He sounds not only self-delusional and self-loathing, but like a total a-hole. “She chose to have a family in a way that is different than the ideal.” What a rotten thing to say — and it completely undermines his claim, “I don’t actually think a family with non-biological members is counterfeit in any way.”

    Just as telling: “If you are gay, you will have to choose to fill in the gaps somewhere.” No, Josh — YOU are the one choosing to “fill in the gaps somewhere.” What a self-deceiving — and homophobic — tool.

    Finally, re “powerful chemicals of infatuation and obsession that usually bring a couple together … dwindle dramatically after the first few years of marriage anyway”: You know this how, Josh, if you’ve never been married to anyone you were sexually attracted to?

  107. Tony says

    Josh is a propagandist for the Mormon church. Part of their propaganda is a “niceness” and “wholesomeness”. It’s right out of 1950s America, but what isn’t so nice in the 21st century is when a religion like the LDS church encourages its members to bankroll anti-gay marriage initiatives, and which still sends their gay young men to charlatan ex-gay therapists.

    You’ll notice that Josh and his many supporters over on his blog continually refer to the “gay lifestyle” whatever the hell that means, and all that nonsense about “choice”.

    The option has ALWAYS been there for gays and Lesbians to marry partners of the opposite sex. It’s been called “marriage of convenience” for ages and there’s nothing new about it. Being “open” about it on a blog and Gawker is just shameless self-promotion, as well as trying to push the Mormon agenda and the “LDS Lifestyle” 😉

    Don’t be fooled for a minute by the “niceness” – these are wolves in sheep’s clothing, just like the fundamentalist Christians and their hateful campaigns against anyone who is LGBT.

  108. Miguel R says

    Here’s the thing- none of your comments matter. Josh is going to keep screwing his wife and be happy.
    I am gay and live with my partner and I am totally happy and that is to me the dream of gay life. To live the kind of life I want. And to let Josh live the kind of life he watns. Not the kind of life I was supposed to live.
    How DARE you all tell Josh how he should be living his life. What good is being gay if its just another “straightjacket.” If I had to live life according to your categories, I might as well have stayed in suburbia, married some girl, had 2 children and bought a tract home.

  109. Miguel R says

    Here’s the thing- none of your comments matter. Josh is going to keep screwing his wife and be happy.
    I am gay and live with my partner and I am totally happy and that is to me the dream of gay life. To live the kind of life I want. And to let Josh live the kind of life he watns. Not the kind of life I was supposed to live.
    How DARE you all tell Josh how he should be living his life. What good is being gay if its just another “straightjacket.” If I had to live life according to your categories, I might as well have stayed in suburbia, married some girl, had 2 children and bought a tract home.

  110. Miguel R says

    Here’s the thing- none of your comments matter. Josh is going to keep screwing his wife and be happy.
    I am gay and live with my partner and I am totally happy and that is to me the dream of gay life. To live the kind of life I want. And to let Josh live the kind of life he watns. Not the kind of life I was supposed to live.
    How DARE you all tell Josh how he should be living his life. What good is being gay if its just another “straightjacket.” If I had to live life according to your categories, I might as well have stayed in suburbia, married some girl, had 2 children and bought a tract home.

  111. Todd says

    Here we go again. So, because he can be happy with a wife and says it’s his “choice” some jackass with a bible or a voting card is going to assume, that, with love and a crucifiction I too can fake a straight love. Note to jackass in article. My gayness isn’t a choice, it isn’t required to be changed, I will not change it to please anyone, and years down the road you too will be tapping a foot under a toilet stall wall. History is a wonderful teacher, and it will prove to be accurate once again.

  112. TJ says

    CONBAB – Actually, the extreme passion (limerence, infatuation) fades in most relationships. And people freak and think that they are no longer in love and break up and get divorced because the romanticized expectations of love and relationships set people up for an unrealistic expectation that they will find “the one” with whom it will always be the 4th of July. Most relationships turn companionate. From a theorthetical, evolutionary standpoint, passion is a great way to snare someone who will help you pass on your genes. After the passion fades, the relationship you have developed is what will nurture your progeny and ensure that your genes pass on.

    Josh has committed to a relationship with his wife. He has children, and has a vested interest in supporting them emotionally, physically, financially, morally, and evolutionarily. Respecting his autonomy, he has made a choice, and for the sake of his family, I hope he makes the best of it.

    That having been said, look to comments by TRUTHTELLER and others. He has committed to, and developed, nurtured, and respected, the relationship he is in not because it is what he desires and who he is, but because it is what he is “supposed” to do, because of an ideology. He gets to be a living, breathing poster boy because of his apparently not so difficult to endure sacrifice. What a beautiful martyr he is!

  113. truthteller says

    @ MIGUEL R
    Miguel, you need reading comprehension skills. Josh can screw whoever he wants. What he can’t do is sell propaganda to make LGBT people’s life miserable.

    He, as a therapist, has an ethical duty to help people heal. He is, however, inciting spiritual violence.

  114. says

    @TJ – Oh, yes indeed, I know all too well that the starry-eyed, walking-into-walls infatuation fades, and fairly quickly. What irritates me is how Josh speaks of something about which he admits (or claims) he knows nothing (that is, if he’s telling the truth, and he’s never been in a LTR with someone he had ever been hopelessly, passionately, breathlessly in love with). It’s not that he’s wrong about passion fading, but that he talks (about this, and everything else) like some sort of authority, without the benefit of any real-world experience; he’s only parroting what he’s been told (or what he wants desperately to believe).

    I would respect his autonomy, and even his choice, if he wasn’t bleating about how he’s made the “ideal” “choice,” 1) denigrating and degrading those of us who live our lives honestly, and 2) repeating the same, stale, old “choice” crap.

    Honestly, I feel more pity for him than disgust. Although I am indeed disgusted.

    P.S. Agreed, Truthteller has it spot on.

  115. Lee says

    I know of an old friend who is in this marriage situation. During his early years of his marriage, I had an affair with him. Believe me he was all gay. His wife later found out about the affair. She came to understand it but has accepted her husband for that side of his life. I’m sure he said that was the last. We have long broken that tie, but little does she know, he still has flings on the side. She recently posted marriage photos on facebook, ah the love, how it has endured, how he still continues to be a “ho.”

  116. Peter M. says

    “Fascinating read”? Really, Towleroad?
    How is this anything other than a sugarcoated version of the “ex-gay”-mantra that gay people can “overcome” their “same-sex attractions” and living “happy and healthy heterosexual lives”?
    He seems to be a nice guy but his declaration will be used (and he doesn’t seem to mind it) as proof by the anti-gay movement that gay people can change, or in his case ignore, their gay identity. Until he declares his support for people who live in same-sex relationships I see him as nothing but a posterboy for the ex-gay movement. Nothing to be hailed on a gay website.

  117. redball says

    RICCO from page 1 of comments: your story about that man is very odd. if him “living the typical gay lifestyle” means that he was a big mansl*t enjoying his status as a “beautiful, very good looking man” & getting all the easy azz he could get, then, yeah, THAT might’ve been part of the problem.

    it’s not all his fault, either. mainstream gay culture has long valorized the physical to the detriment of real emotional & spiritual connections–a problem i hope we can fix soon in our community.

  118. TJ says

    CONBAB – and it’s a good thing that the walking into walls stops. That shiz can hurt!

    Yet, when I think of how one kiss from my partner of 25 years can still make me light-headedly melt, I completely see your point. It’s not just about the relationship we have built. It’s about the passion that brought us together.

    I am reminded of a college roommate with whom I eventually had my first torrid affair. He had an on-again, off again relationship with a girlfriend, whom he eventually married (and later divorced, or so a whim google search a few years ago revealed). I was not his first same-sex partner, and probably wasn’t his last. When he went back to his gf – we were still roommates; leases and impecunity, you know – he would talk about the hours of foreplay (candles, music, bubble baths together, massages, etc.), before they got down to the deed. A female friend was appalled. “He’s 19, and it takes all that just to have sex!?”

    I hope Josh makes the best of his choices. But ultimately, he’s no role model for enlightened people. I appreciate the importance of religion in people’s lives. But I’d chose a religion that understands human beings and sexual orientation better than it understands dogma.

  119. says

    So in other words, it’s OK to be gay…. just as long as you marry a woman, have kids, and never so much as kiss another man.

    This message have been brought to you by the Church of Jesus Christ for Latter-Day Saints ™.

  120. Dave says

    Mormon propaganda. Even Hitler and his Catholic Nazis were able to get the German people to think Jews were bad and murder them by the millions just because they were Jewish.

  121. Rathje says

    And your blog post would sound a little more credible if it didn’t end with:

    “And it would sound even truer coming from somebody who doesn’t base his life decisions on a book that claims Native Americans first sailed to America from the Levant.”

    Because the Book of Mormon doesn’t claim this. If you’re going to bag on faith claims of a religion, at least educate yourself in what they actually are.

    Aside from that – I’ve found it rather telling how utterly threatened the gay blogging community seems to be by this article. Despite the fact that he is at pains to emphasize that what worked for him won’t work for everyone.

    Why is it that every time a gay guy decides not to have anal sex, he’s immediately made the target of a bunch of hate speech?

    Apparently, in the homosexual community – if you want acceptance and tolerance, you’d better be prepared to “put out.” Otherwise, forget about it.

  122. Steve says

    @Miguel R
    The problem is that he doesn’t keep his ideas to himself. He is blogging very loudly about it and advertising his life as a model for other people

    Also, and here is the most important part:
    He is an ex-gay therapist! He is hurting people with that

  123. Robyn Jane says

    Interesting that I found this article the day after I read his wife’s blog entry regarding the same topic. And like so many of you, I’m still scratching my head. Incidentally, she used the same word–“robust”–to describe their sex life. But then, she says she’s a good Mormon wife, so I wouldn’t expect her to have an independent thought in her head.

    Oh, and by the way–even though HE claims he’s Mormon, SHE says he was, until he stopped believing in God… She says they’re both atheists now.

  124. Dwight says

    It is very interesting to read the comments on this blog: those demanding tolerance from others demonstrating gross intolerance of anyone who does not affirm their positions. Lacking a moral compass, you condemn Mormonism and Evangelical Christianity, as if they are the source of your problems, though every major religion in the world condemns homosexuality as sinful and unnatural. Josh Weed, one who identifies himself as having same-sex attraction, is roundly condemned because he insists that behavior is a choice, not a programmed inevitability. Like a bunch of adolescents who can’t have their way and don’t want to accept responsibility for their own actions, you lash out against anyone who insists sexual behavior is a conscious decision governed by moral law. It is time to grow up. You don’t have to agree with Josh Weed, but your bigoted, intolerant rants will not produce your desired outcome: affirmation of your actions.

  125. pete says

    A Mormon phreeque.

    It was nice to see that mormons are fighting back. Today’s NY Times had an article about the 300 Mormons marching in the Pride parade in Salt lake City.

    I saw about 50 marching in the pride parade in Washington DC last Saturday.

  126. Guy says

    This actually sounds like a kind of Mormon polygamy.

    His speech is terribly one-sided. She’s his wife and “primary” sex partner, which suggests that he has sex with men on the side.

    Does she get that privilege too, or is she the conforming Mormon wife, controlled by her husband, faithful to him, while he has multiple partners?

  127. says

    “Passerby” – call B.S. on that.

    the “cure” for Josh would be to accept reality. truth. facts. evidence. logic. reason.

    nobody here is “marginalizing or mistreating” him for being LDS, or for the “choices” he’s making – in reality, he’s making choices and is marginalized by the LDS and their belief system, which is forcing a “choice” onto him.

    discernment, please.

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