Comments

  1. HadenoughBS says

    Fascinating! This video represents what I’ve always thought of as the cultish operation of the LDS church. I’m amazed that someone, presumably a male, got this far into this cult’s secret ritual and taped it. However, I can’t decide if it was done for the purpose of exposing these secretive goings on OR some other purpose. At any rate, for all those Obama-hating Christians who’re supporting Mittens in the November election, I hope you’re satisfied with your support of this “non-Christian Mormon Christian” (including you, Billy Graham).

  2. Rick says

    So religious intolerance is acceptable to the Far Left as long as it is directed at Mormons or Christian Fundamentalists (unless they are black) and not at any non-Western religion such as Islam, even when the fundamental tenets of the non-Western religion are similar to or identical to those of the Western religions and just as “kooky’?

  3. Dastius Krazitauc says

    Man, that is creepy. It’s so cold and robotic, almost alien. And I thought the fervid Pentecostal services were scary. This tops that because it is so bloodless.

  4. CC says

    Disrespectful? A candidates religion is pretty damn close to the heart of their policy making. I don’t want a president who has sworn any sort of blood oath to any sort of religion.

  5. Fenrox says

    Oh come on, all religions are laugh out loud bonkers. Like really, you want to just make fun of Mormons like any other religion isn’t just a stupid (That includes Buddhism, Taoism etc).

    There are plenty of reasons to get rid of Romney!

  6. SteveK says

    The link isn’t working so I can’t see the ritual. People are right about how easy it is to make fun of any religion. The problem for me in this case is the part about “… avenge the blood of the prophets upon the United States…” I don’t have a problem with candidates being religious. But I do question whether it’s a good to have a president who has taken an oath to seek vengeance on the country over which he presides.

  7. UFFDA says

    This is indeed bizaar and happily, for a whole lot of religioidiots out there, it will scare them into an Obama vote. All I could think of for as long as I could bear to watch and listen was that I’d love to see all those vanilla rooms filled with homosexuals.

  8. Artie_in_Lauderdale says

    What a rip-off of Freemasonry. Hey, fellow readers, today’s presentation is brought to you by the letter “C.” Can we all say CULT? Stupid, ignorant pseudo-Masonic cult. Ironically, Aleister Crowley’s esoteric order, Ordo Templi Orientis, uses all of the same Masonic trappings: “tokens” for passwords, etc. The wording of the Mormon oaths in this video are virtually identical to the oaths in the Masonic rituals and Crowley’s Thelemic initiations:

    “What is that?” “The first token of the blah blah blah.” “Does it have a name?” “It has.” etc.

    This silly-ass Mormon crap is just so piss poor, not to mention unpatriotic, with their oath of vengeance against the United States for the death of their con-artist “prophets.” Pathetic. Unpatriotic and pathetic.

  9. says

    As an ex-Mormon, yes, this is an authentic video… I’ve practiced that ritual many times.

    On a side-note, all religions are just different types of supernatural nuttiness. Who’s to say that Mormon crazy is worse that Evangelical crazy… they all make the world a worse place to live.

  10. Blake says

    I do not understand your reasoning Rick. I understand and agree with the accusation that the left is hypocritical when it comes to the deserved criticism of Islam vs. Christianity, but fail to see how criticism of either constitutes “intolerance”, especially here. The Mormon Church is merely the usual batshit lunacy of Christianity PLUS a giant load of additional laughable idiocy piled on top (Fenrox). They deserve every last ounce of scorn and denunciation of which they are in receipt.

  11. Mawm says

    I can’t wait until we get to the point in society where anyone participating in something as stupid as what is going on in this video is considered unfit for office.

    That includes all religions, especially ones that demand total loyalty and at the same time vengeance on the US.

  12. Diogenes Arktos says

    Think seriously about the truck. Romney admits LDS was racist until 1978, when black pseudo-equality was accepted. Gays (under present theology) can never be fully accepted, because you cannot become a god unless you are sealed in marriage to a woman – so that you can eternally engage in straight sex. What gay would want that?

    I am a strong supporter of publicizing the beliefs and practices of LDS. It is shocking how the Religious Right has sold its soul over LDS. It used to be a cult, now there are evangelists who are saying that LDS is not very differnt from traditional Christianity. And they dare declare that liberal Christians are not Christians?

    @Andy: I do not care for your use of “nutty”. How about something less judgmental?

  13. Blake says

    Well David, I’m to say it, that’s who. Let’s start with the fact that the Mormon church’s brand of crazy is the one that donated TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to support proposition 8 in California banning gay marriage, hm? How ’bout we start there?

  14. says

    “they’re persecuting my religion!” is a pretty funny thing to hear, here in North America.

    i was, through the miracle of sheer dumb luck, raised in the united church of canada. with a gay minister. in a “straight” congregation. over time, more members Came Out. i came out to the congregation in my teens. there were even non-Christian identifying members in the congregation. why? because it wasn’t a dogmatic church. humanist. knowledge of historical context. no claims to One True Faith, or “All of these stories being real” – simply a way to show how our species looked for guidance in ancient stories, and how those can be applied today, should one feel they need guidance.

    there’s a very specific reason the church i was brought up in is never, ever, being attacked or persecuted of any of that stuff the LDS and the RCC complain about; they give them no reason to be upset.

    when you’re promoting love and understanding and not fear and exclusivity and prejudice, you tend to not earn the ire of folks.

    for some reason this lesson is lost on a great many religious people.

  15. Artie_in_Lauderdale says

    @ Rick,

    Criticism of evangelical Christianity or Mormonism is not equivalent to support of Islam. So you’re still screaming blue murder every time anyone criticizes your precious Christianist homophobes. You do realize that you’ve lost your way on the Internet, don’t you? Please find your way back home to Free Republic sometime soon. Thanks in advance.

  16. Artie_in_Lauderdale says

    @ Rick,

    How do you define the “Far Left”? Anyone who isn’t a self-loathing, closeted Xtianist asswipe like you? Please go to Home Depot, buy some large nails and a couple of two-by-fours, and then go crucify yourself. I’m sure your nasty evangelical Xtian parents will be well rid of you.

  17. Thrutch says

    Can we all stop and take a look at the comments we are posting. Every religion has rituals and aspects to it that we as outsiders find weird. As long as they are not causing harm to others than let them believe what they want and i will believe what I want. We get no where by tearing down other people for the rituals of there religion. I would hope spirituality and faith goes deeper than that.

    Romney and Obamas religion matters to the election only in the ways that their decisions might be made by their spiritual leaders and in ways their religion affects policy. Romney’s policy towards gay people comes from his religion, so does Obama’s. Its the level in which it affects us that matters, not the rituals of the church.

  18. Artie_in_Lauderdale says

    @ Thrutch,

    From your comment: “As long as they are not causing harm to others than let them believe what they want and i will believe what I want.”

    But they ARE causing harm to others by funding anti-gay hate, to the tune of millions of dollars. That they are causing harm to others is precisely the point.

  19. robert says

    I got out from under Mormonism by age 20. I warn my co-workers who plan to vote for Mitt that he will do what the Mormon Church tells him to do, that he will be in their pocket, no ifs and or buts. Don’t doubt for one minute that Mormon rule is their goal.

  20. Rick says

    It is plain to see that the Mormon Church is a cult that hates LGBT people, blacks and other minorities and spend millions on keeping these people down. Now that they are working with the Catholics who spend more millions than any other Christian religion to stop gay marriage and the Evangelical Christians who hate and make trouble for gays by helping hate groups like NOM or National Organization for Marriage by giving them millions of dollars. These cult religions pay millions of dollars to stop LGBT people from having equal and Civil Rights. These same so called religious leaders have been exposed for being pedophiles who rape children and Boy Scouts and hide their evil acts behind their religion and use their money to buy silence from these children and their parents. They are nothing more today than criminal cults who rape and abuse children and they are the ones and they need to be arrested and put in prisons where they belong.

  21. EchtKultig says

    As ridiculous as Mormonism is, I don’t think this last minute rehash of that is going to be a net positive for the election. It could actually foster a kind of sympathy for Romney.

  22. clint says

    I’ve been a Mason since 1995, and I’m totally grossed out. The ancient procedures of the lodge room were never intended to be used in this way, this truly is a perversion. To see something so carefully handed down for at least 900 yrs now twisted into the service of a fictional Kolob overlord is irrationally stomach-turning. I mean, really, via a loudspeaker? They couldn’t even have a real live initiator leading them through? Maybe it’s the completely impersonal herding of veiled masses that is really disturbing, and that’s before you actually listen to the script.

  23. Caliban says

    What isn’t being addressed is that Mormonism is an offshoot, a SEQUEL to Christianity, that has diverged so far from its source that it CANNOT be said to be the same thing anymore.

    From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

    Cosmology- a : a branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of the universe
    b : a theory or doctrine describing the natural order of the universe

    Cosmology is the TOTALITY of your beliefs about how the universe works- how it was created, whether or not a deity did it and that deity’s continuing role, what happens after you die- ALL of it. It doesn’t apply just to religious people but everyone, your understanding of how the universe works.

    Mormon cosmology is VERY different from Christian cosmology, bringing in other planets and changing the relationships between central iconic figures. Their beliefs are SO different that Mormonism cannot legitimately be said to be a Christian religion. Yes, Christ is IN the Book Of Mormon but both he and the rules have changed.

    It’s like if someone wrote a sequel to the Lord Of The Rings trilogy set in the old west and made Gandalf a gunslinger. You may LIKE the story but it’s NOT the same thing! It’s a separate entity from the original. The same thing applies to Mormonism and Christianity.

    But apparently it’s only OK to question OBAMA’s religious beliefs, not Mitt Romney’s.

  24. says

    I’ve always considerd the Mormon religion a cult, no matter how nice the Mormon people I’ve met in the past have been. It was created by a charlatan and this video looks pretty much how I expected it to look.

    This post is disrespectful? The only disrespect here is the disrespect to logic and reason by the Mormon religion.

  25. Elsewhere says

    So you picked a screen cap that is deliberately misleading because… why?

    The caption box prior to the one you show explains that the Oath of Vengeance is no longer given, but that it was “during the time of George Romney” ((1907-1995). So when was that, exactly?

    There’s more than enough crazy in this video to go ’round, but taking a quote out of context was a cheap shot that didn’t need to be taken. That’s an act worthy of a Republican, or a Mormon, or a Republican Mormon… and I expect better than that from this blog.

    Let’s fight for real issues and for real ideas. It’s the only way to win in the end.

  26. BC says

    To show this video in attempt to mock and ridicule people with deeply held beliefs is shameful and pathetic. Whoever filmed it had to be a complete liar in order to gain access to the ceremony under false pretenses. These ceremonies are 100%harmless, whoever says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about. I’ve attended them for 20 years and so have MILLIONS of good honest people. Posting this is absolutely disgusting.

  27. Caliban says

    Well, Elsewhere, since this wasn’t TAPED in George Romney’s time it seems that this ritual IS still being performed.

    BC, what’s offensive is members of a Cult trying to impose their religious beliefs on other people by meddling in politics, as Mormons have done for decades all across the country. Prop 8 ring any bells for you?

    Payback is a b*tch.

  28. revchicoucc says

    All religions have rituals and practices that are odd to people outside that religion. College fraternities and sororities do too.

    I’m a pastor in the United Church of Christ and here’s the deal. Something may seem odd to you, but we won’t keep it a secret. We don’t have secret oaths. All our rituals are open to the public, even to our critics. We’ll take questions and try to answer them.

    For the most part, LDS doctrine and theology does not trouble me. I just don’t believe it. I can show point by point how they differ from any form of Christianity.

    The LDS culture of secrecy, that, somehow, they are above scrutiny and questioning, troubles me.

    That culture shows through in Mitt Romney whenever he communicates through words or body language or actions that he is entitled to the Presidency and should not have to explain himself.

  29. InscrutableTed says

    I hate to defend Romney, but I have to take issue with your headline. Just because Romney identifies as a Mormon, it doesn’t mean he believes everything the Mormon church teaches.

    It would be like saying every Democrat agrees with every part of the Democrat policy platform, or that every American agrees with the Second Amendment.

  30. InscrutableTed says

    @Nil

    Yes, Battlestar’s Galactica’s Kobol was a reference to the Mormon Kolob. Gary Larson, creator of the original Battlestar Galactica, was a Mormon, and the show was inspired by (and possibly a metaphor for) the Mormon migration to Utah.

  31. says

    Inscrutable – the problem, unfortunately, is there is no cult-mentality in the Democrats, meaning that they’re all forced to believe a certain thing lest they be punished by God in the afterlife.

    discernment, please.

    The LDS belief system hinges on believing that what the LDS believes is the unerring Word of GodElohimStarplanetKolobMan

    you show me a Mormon that actively stands up to their church and its teachings and i’ll show you a Mormon who has been excommunicated and shunned.

  32. Nathan says

    I am a practicing, temple-attending Mormon who has been in countless temple endowment ceremonies and I want to clarify something for the readers of this article. The “Oath of vengeance” cited at the top of the screen is blatantly false and not contained in any of the temple ceremonies. It is misleading, a lie and not fair to the LDS church. If you want to video-tape the ceremony and post it on line, i guess that is within your right (unethical to take it out of context as it is), though to lie is something else entirely. I call on the author to bring some credibility to her/himself and take the false oath down immediately.

  33. johnny says

    Seriously, anyone who has ANYTHING to do with the Morgommon church has a screw loose. The whole freakin’ religion was started by a guy who had been thrown in jail numerous times for being a charlatan and side-show nut who robbed people and lied about it later. Then, when things were getting tight, he started this wacky religion. It’s a bunch of B.S, but because it’s been built into this mega-millions empire, people buy into it and believe this crap.

    And it’s not even 200 years old yet!

    BTW, ALL disrespect intended. :-)

  34. EchtKultig says

    Though, if the video is a reflection of a certain highly intelligent portion of our population being terrified that a believer in such a flim-flammish cult could be elected president…it might have something to do with THE ELECTION…but is in no way endorsed by or a product of the Obama campaign.

  35. B says

    @Nathan:
    Um, it most certainly is accurate. I believe what you’re doing is called “Lying for the Lord,” another acceptable practice of Mormonism. As an ex-Mormon I can vouch for its authenticity, and as a gay man raised in Mormonism, I can also vouch that it was indeed harmful to myself and many others. Many others who would still be alive today had they not been raised in such an intolerant climate.

  36. Diogenes Arktos says

    @BC: Watch your argument: “millions of good honest people” used to believe blacks were second-class citizens according to the unchanging word of God. They proceeded to take action in the world appropriate to their religious views.

    @Rev Chico UCC: Amen! Amen! Amen!

    @Inscrutable Ted: Point taken. In the RCC, they’re called “cafeteria Catholics”. It is the extremely rare RC priest, however, who defies his bishop and church over a hot-button issue like LGBT rights. (Notice, moreover, what the Pope did to the US nuns.) I suspect the last gay-friendly RC bishop retired in 1991 and certainly would not be appointed today. Similarly, it would be odd for someone of rank in LDS not to believe all of what LDS teaches. Continue reading the next comment…

    @Little Kiwi: A liberal (!) LDS blog got into trouble for not blindly supporting Romney – particularly with a post showing how LDS is not Christianity. At least one person feared he was in danger of excommunication.

  37. RytheGuySLC says

    As a former faithful member in good standing, which means I attended the temple regularly to perform these ordinances as proxy, not ONCE was this archaic “Oath of Vengeance ” ever mentioned, performed or even taught. I have experienced many things over my life to put me at odds with the LDS leadership and I am no more Romney supporter than Obama is, but this is taken completely out of contex, a different time period in the churches history and I find it in poor taste that you, Andy, would lower your reporting standards that rival that of the Tea Party.
    And unless you have first hand knowledge of and have been a member of tue LDS Church, not just readabout it or have a neighbor whose brothers sister is a scorned ex member, you have no authority to speak on the subject of what they consider to be sacred.

  38. Bill says

    Does anyone know if the video is real or a staged hit piece? (I’m asking because it seems to have come out just before a presidential election and a lot of people don’t want Romney elected for good reasons.) The way to check is to ask some respected ex-Mormons who have shown enough integrity to be trusted to state whether it is accurate or not.

    For example, I once saw a play about a gay Mormon who was ex-communicated (put on by a guy who was) and after the performance, I asked him if the ex-communication scene in Latter Days was realistic. He said it wasn’t – the ritual and/or setting was quite different. There are lots of reasons to make it different in a film – cost of a set, not knowing the details but having to show something, scene-length constraints, etc.

  39. Bill says

    Regarding Clint’s comments – while I’m not a mason, I sort of recognized the Masonic reference due to being familiar with Mozart’s opera The Magic Flute. My guess is that (to the extent the video is accurate, which IMHO still has to be determined), Joseph Smith and/or others probably just ripped off a few Masonic traditions, primarily because that is a lot easier than making it all up from scratch, but also because it is easier to gauge audience appeal if you’ve seen it work elsewhere. You know, just like Hollywood movies recycling whatever worked previously in terms of box-office sales.

  40. Amy says

    I HAVE to interviene here ,NOW! You can hate the mormons or Romney or whatever but this is FALSE and I have to stand against this lie. That whole statement from the video is a lie and fabricated. That statement is NOT said in the temples. I was just at one(there are over 100) Friday night.Again, hate what you want but this video is false and someone has got to say it. There is no oath like that, no oath of vegence.

  41. Sean in Dallas says

    The secret handshake makes them exponentially cliquish. Their “I know something you don’t” smug attitude wears out its welcome quickly. It’s the same smugness you see on Romney’s face all the time.

    I left the crutch behind at 17 years old, more than half my age ago. It was one of the best decisions I ever made.

  42. jd says

    @Nil: The creator of Battlestar Galactica (the original) is a Mormon and Kobol was definitely a Mormon reference.

    As for religious intolerance, well, yes, all religions are based in superstition and are, therefore, indefensible by definition. I am convinced, however, that Mormonism is a parody of the older religions. The charlatanism is too obvious, the excesses too great, the rituals too transparent.

  43. ryan says

    I see the Mormons are even defending themselves here, on gay chat boards, which is ironic, when you consider how little they rate us otherwise. This bizarre video must cut a little too close.

  44. Brian says

    I’m sure it’s too late for this comment, but there’s a lot of confusion about the oath of vengeance thing. It’s clear if you watch the video that it says the oath of vengeance is no longer a part of the temple ceremony. So the video seems to be authentic, but towleroad as usual pushed the limit with the screen cap, which is definitely misleading.

  45. Caliban says

    Awwww, are the Mormons getting their feelings hurt because they feel they’re being mischaracterized and lied about? Well you sure don’t give a f*ck when you have done and STILL do it to gays, so cry me a freaking river.

  46. Sean in Dallas says

    It’s not that it’s worse than anything Jeremiah Wright said. It’s that it’s creepy as all hell.

    Mormons believe that “as man is, god once was, and that as god is man may be:” you can become god of a planet populated by your own humans, on whom you apparently get to inflict disease and pestilence, all as some sort of cruel weeding-out process to see who loves you the most.

    Bizarre, if not a little sociopathic.

    If you’re an all-knowing god, shouldn’t you be prescient enough to tell who’s on your team without all the weirdness?

  47. TJ says

    All religions are creepy and people with a shred of common sense would not believe the nonsense…Judeo Christian- a talking snake? Also, you must believe that incest is cool as how did Adam and Eve’s children make children?

  48. Yeek says

    This is SO AWESOMELY WEIRD that I have new respect for the LDS religion. Not really the beliefs themselves, but for the fact that it is so spooky and they’ve kept so much of it hidden. Just so very strange.

  49. Randy says

    What’s really creepy is that if you do believe in God, it’s insulting to think that he has some secret handshake that you need to get into heaven. Mormonism didn’t exist until the 19th century, so I guess that means no one got to heaven before them.

    IT’s just a cult, and not very different from other cults or religions. People believe what they want to believe, and I have no problem with that. I have a problem with people who take it SERIOUSLY and think that their eternal life afterwards is dependant upon a few pointless rituals.

  50. Diogenes Arktos says

    The pre-1990 version of the Endowment Ceremony: http://www.ldsendowment.org/

    A footnote:
    “Until the 1920s, the infamous ‘oath of vengeance’ was administered in conjunction with the law of chastity and the law of consecration. This oath, as described by initiates during Congressional hearings in 1904-1906, ran as follows:

    “You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.

    “The ‘blood of the prophets’ is generally understood as a reference to the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith.”

    *****

    Although it has nothing to do with the oath of vengeance, this was an interesting footnote:

    “The 1990 revision does not have women and men covenant separately to keep the law of chastity. Instead, women and men simultaneously covenant to have no sexual relations except with their ‘husband or wife’ to whom they are legally and lawfully wedded. This revision was no doubt made to streamline the ceremony. However, the new wording has the presumably unintended consequence of bringing same-sex marriages–if legalized–within the pale of the law of chastity.”

    *****

    Original article found on google:
    http://tucsoncitizen.com/freethought-arizona/2012/05/17/a-look-at-the-mormon-endowment-ceremony/

  51. RobertMckay says

    I was born LDS, and participated in both sealing ceremonies as well as other Temple work. No where did I take an oath against the United States. I did work in the Salt Lake, South Jordan, and even the new Kansas City Temple. My recent Temple Interview resulted in my no longer being Temple Worthy not because I am gay, but because I refuse to tithe, btw. If this happening, it’s not in any of the three Temples I have done work in, or was sealed with family within. Period. I am no fan of the LDS Church – they should lose IRS Tax-Exempt Status – which means hundreds of millions in tax dollars. I am saying that if in fact this was recorded in one of the LDS Temples, I’d like to know how this uncorrelated material is being presented.Period. I may not longer be LDS, at the same time I believe that Joseph Smith *may* have been a prophet (the same way Christ or Mohammed). I don’t know and won’t until after I can post anywhere.

  52. Diogenes Arktos says

    I find the back-and-forth among the various LDS and ex-LDS grimly humorous. (Let alone considering the possible impact of the LDS traditional value of “lying for the Lord”.) I have heard that LDS frowns upon even the most minimal of historical research – and it *embarrassingly* shows in this thread. THE BASIC FACT IS THAT RELIGIOUS RITES CHANGE THROUGHOUT HISTORY. As noted in my post above, the oath of vengeance was dropped in the 1920s. If you choose to follow the link to the pre-1990 version, you will see many other changes in the footnotes; including, JD, examples where parodies have been softened or omitted.

    BTW – While the video on this post has only been around a few days, the NewNameNoah channel on Youtube has been at this for a few months.

  53. Gary says

    (Q) Did Battlestar galactica get the “Lords of Kobol” from the Mormon Kolob?

    (A) Actually, yes, @ NIL, Glen Larson (creator, producer, writer of Battlestar Galactica IS a Mormon.

  54. millerbeach says

    If this “oath” is so untrue, why does it keep turning up? It has at very least, some validity, as it is in the history books. So does this fall under the “it’s o.k. to lie for the Lord”? It is troubling, to say the least. How can I believe the defenders of this “oath”, or lack thereof, when several more attest to the fact it is true? Why all the secrecy? Considering I am Catholic, I almost find my own questions humorous…I, a Catholic, finally stumble upon a religion MORE cult-like than my own? I am impressed! (not really, more like oozing with sarcasm) No Mitt, you are not presidential material, and it has nothing to do with your religion.

  55. Squirt says

    Nathan is right. The “oath of vengeance” in the clip was deleted from the Mormon temple ceremony over 100 years ago, and today’s Mormons do not think like that at all. There’s lots to contend with the Mormons about without lying about them.

  56. gregory brown says

    Let’s not get so much hung up on an oath that was eliminated from ceremonies decades ago. We can still ponder the significance of the Sword of Laban which Brigham Young declared was to be used to subdue the governments of the world to “OUR” god.
    The desire for Theocracy is a common goal shared with numerous cults influenced by Rousas Rushdoony, Lou Engle and other Dominionists, Restorationists and Seven Mountain enthusiasts. it’s an unholy alliance more people should know about.

    the rituals are quaint and the surroundings are tacky, but not everybody is happy in an austere Quaker meeting house.

    And I admit that I was also impressed by the notion of a Divine Glory Hole giving entrance to a Celestial Back Room.

  57. says

    @revchicoucc –

    I’m a UCC member and I serve on one of the national boards. I was thinking much the same thing you said – that while some of our rituals may seem a little, they are performed in public. We’ll explain them if you ask.

    As a lifelong Utah resident, Mormonism’s secrecy has long troubled me. Mormonism’s relationship with authority is equally troubling to me. It’s deeply hierarchical and the mere act of questioning someone above you in the hierarchy is regarded as disloyal and even antithetical to faith. Mitt Romney is an exemplar of that mindset.

  58. chris says

    So obviously this Towleroad post is being passed around on Mormon websites — causing quite a stir, I’m sure.

    Another former Mormon here with some insight:

    1) To those Mormons here, this website is not the creator of the YouTube video. Also, this is a gay blog.

    2) More in likely, the video was recorded for a Christian group opposed to Mormonism. Some right wing Christian groups have made it their mission to expose what happens in the temple and aren’t beyond throwing in a half-truth in there to help their cause.

    Of course, this video begs a question to Mormons: if God is leading this church and influencing everyone from The Prophet to the local ward Bishop, how is it that no one was able to detect that this person was lying during his temple interview? Did the Holy Spirit have a day off? How come the person checking his temple recommend did receive a revelation to not let that person in the temple?

    3) The Mormon temple ceremony is based upon Masonic Temple ceremonies which Mormons in the 1830s – 1840s believed were corrupted versions of the ceremonies of the original Jewish temples. They obviously weren’t aware of the true history of Masonry. Joseph Smith claimed to have received revelation restoring the ceremonies to their original form. Hell, when Joseph Smith was about to be murdered, he yelled out of the window of the jail a Masonic cry for help in order stop the Masons attacking the jail and show mercy. Didn’t work.

    4) Not sure about the Oath of Vengeance, but it appears to have been something in the early Utah ceremonies through the 1920s. In the 1990s, the ceremony was changed to remove things like an oath to kill oneself by slitting the throat or disembowelment before ever revealing the temple ceremony.

    5) Some the weirdest experiences I’ve ever had as a gay man was with Mormons. A few here:

    a. There was a gay bar near BYU in Orem where a Provo/Orem police patrol car would park across from and shine their lights upon anyone leaving the bar to shame them.

    b. On more then one occasion, a one night stand with Mormon usually resulted in a long crying session from said Mormon because of guilt. Sometimes a call to his Bishop was involved.

    c. The most innocent and nice RM who comes out will become the biggest caricature of every vice related to being a gay within a year: drugs, over indulgence in alcohol, extreme stereotypes, or risky sexual behavior. It’s because Mormons believe in a black and white world, no grey. Either you are all good, or all bad.

  59. says

    @RytheGuySLC – you’re mistaken when you claim that to even post this video is in bad taste and that unless a person has first hand experience they cannot have an opinion. I don’t have to be a woman to know that sexist double standards are bad. I dont have to be African American to know that racism is harmful and wrong. Several folks on these boards have claimed this recording is accurate. Other folks are busy denying it. It certainly seems consistent with what I’ve heard of Mormon temple ritual, from people who have been through those rituals.

  60. andrew says

    All religions are bat s*it crazy. Jews believe that the creator of the billion gallaxy universe chose their desert tribe as his “chosen people” and made a special covenant with them. Catholics believe that after a priest say “magic words” over a piece of bread it becomes the creator of the billion gallaxy universe. As Jack Paar use to say; “I kid you not”!

  61. Zac says

    This is fake. I’m a former Mormon and I can tell you this is not what goes on in the Mormon temple. What actually happens is a little weird, but this isn’t it.

  62. gray says

    As an LDS, mormon, I stumbled on this site, and this garbage is so made up!! You should be ashamed of your selves!! To those who believe this nonsense , please save yourself from this dribble.

  63. MaddM@ says

    I’m a liberal who is relatively open-minded and wants to foster a culture of tolerance and getting-along-ness. The mormon church does not belong in that because they actively work to beat down groups of society trying to make gains in CIVIL society (not in their religion). If mormons could leave me the hell alone to perform their crazy rituals dreamed up by Joseph Smith (and I could go on a rant here about that character however I won’t) then by all means do it.

    However, when the mormon church decided it needs to throw its weight around in order to beat down a segment of society, especially one I belong to, you’d better believe the tolerance well runs pretty dry pretty quickly. Respect and tolerance is a two way street and the mormon church has not chosen to go that way, I don’t know why I should feel ashamed or conflicted in any way by wanting to see the whole thing broken up or at least chased out of the country like the puritans were for behaving like little wankers.

    Here in the US many believe the 1st amendment provides for both freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. Leave me the hell alone, I reject jesus as my personal savior and shouldnt be made to live my life like the bible is inerrant truth cover to cover.

  64. MaddM@ says

    I’m a liberal who is relatively open-minded and wants to foster a culture of tolerance and getting-along-ness. The mormon church does not belong in that because they actively work to beat down groups of society trying to make gains in CIVIL society (not in their religion). If mormons could leave me the hell alone to perform their crazy rituals dreamed up by Joseph Smith (and I could go on a rant here about that character however I won’t) then by all means do it.

    However, when the mormon church decided it needs to throw its weight around in order to beat down a segment of society, especially one I belong to, you’d better believe the tolerance well runs pretty dry pretty quickly. Respect and tolerance is a two way street and the mormon church has not chosen to go that way, I don’t know why I should feel ashamed or conflicted in any way by wanting to see the whole thing broken up or at least chased out of the country like the puritans were for behaving like little wankers.

    Here in the US many believe the 1st amendment provides for both freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. Leave me the hell alone, I reject jesus as my personal savior and shouldnt be made to live my life like the bible is inerrant truth cover to cover.

  65. Wendy LeGault says

    I am shocked by your presumptions of belief based on so little information. Especially where you say these people swear an oath to pray & never cease to pray…to avenge the blood of the prophets et al and to teach this to our children. You probably won’t allow my posting, but you are crazy.

  66. flax says

    GROW UP. first of all whoever made this video should seriously thinkn twice about what he did. He lied his way into one of the holiest and purest places on this earth, then made a video of it? grow up. I dont care if your a mormon or not. But if your not at least respect someone who has a religion and is trying to live a good life. Funny to see that someone over the age of 19 made this video.. cause its something a 5 year old wouldve done. GROW UP and show some respect to religion. You can’t tell me one mormon thats a bad person. Its a church who tries to raise good people with high standards. Sure people fall away or people make their own mistakes. but this is pathetic grow up.

  67. Reggie says

    This a total lie. i am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of later day saints. i have been to the temple and i have seen these sacred meeting sacred not secret and any temple recommend holder May enter and are there upon their own free will and choice. and there is no oath of vengeance. That i promise. the law of consecration is that when the day comes that the world May end that all members while give what they have to the church. that all May be divided equally between the members . whether they be black, white, Asian, or whatever. The Mormon church does not support gay marriage because they believe that a marriage is between a man and a women for the soul reason of procreation. we do not hate gays we preach love one another. I have akot of gay friends and they haven’t problem with my religion.

  68. cindy koestler says

    It amazes me how blind and ignorant people are, really so bored in life you have to make fun and sneak in a camera, like we do security checks at the door right? They only ask for your temple recommend, and again it doesn’t surprise me that all you IDOITS did this when Mitt Romney was running for President and further more you IDOITS think that Mormons only vote for their own.. OH MY WORD WHAT A JOKE.. We vote for whats right.. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN RON PAUL.. Get a life and find God, and leave Satan to his own lies, instead of manufacturing them for him.

  69. says

    No, most Christians do NOT believe you have to be baptized to get to heaven – Baptism is an act of obedience, not salvation; Baptism is a public profession of faith that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior – there is no way one can make that proclamation for the dead. Salvation is by faith alone through God’s saving grace (the Reformists call them the “solas” – e.g. Sola Gratia and Sola Fide) – now, one can debate the truthfulness of that, but cannot simply proclaim Christians believe something they don’t.

    Also, we do not believe that God came from another planet – you are attempting to use man’s understanding to pervert scripture, and I cannot let that stand. We believe is He who was and is and will always be, from everlasting to everlasting, and His ways are not our ways. I don’t know how He could “always be”, but I don’t have His understanding, and I don’t attempt to apply my human limits to Him.

    Your are correct, though, that Elohim is one of the Names of God, and is the plural of El – it is the first reference to God’s name in Genesis – “…God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth”. While it has the plural ending, it does not mean “gods”, rather refers to the plural nature of God, i.e. the Holy Trinity.

    I’m not bashing Mormons because, quite frankly, a lot of the good works they do put mainstream Christians to shame, but do not use the false doctrine of some Christianity to justify non-Christian theology of Mormonism.

  70. says

    Religion, what a complete waste of time. Think of what we could have become had we all embraced a reality based life. And we taught our children how precious life was in the sense we are only given one to live. I wonder if human compassion and progress would be farther long? I have been an atheist since I was sixteen, I got confirmed in my church due to my parents begging but the day after they told me I could follow my own path and I left the church as quickly as I could. Best decision I have ever made.

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