1. johnny says

    I live in Indiana. I won’t hold hands or show affection in public with my partner unless it’s a gay club or private event. You are asking for trouble when you do something like that here. And our police are worthless in those situations.

    A few years ago, three of us were simply having fun being catty to each other in a restaurant. When we left, a group of 4 young black men followed us out and tried to jump us in a parking lot a block away, calling us fags, etc.

    They were very sorry they tried that and got hurt way worse than we did.

    Her’s a clue for any young guys that think they can beat up people just because they’re gay: Some of us know martial arts and know how to fight and won’t stand there and simply take it. One of those guys left with a broken jaw and another one left with some very sore nuts. The other two ran away before we could lay into them.

    Don’t judge a book by it’s cover, there are some pretty scrappy gay guys out here in the stix.

  2. sundayboy says

    My friend Catherine is tall and rather butch but you’d never guess she’s an Aikido world champion. The men who tried to attack her in Moscow didn’t. She was kind enough to call an ambulance for them after she gave them reason to go to the hospital.

    Don’t doubt that there are courageous and fierce gays who will put serious manners on you XoMoDe.

  3. Jeff says

    Glad to read that Johnny! Word needs to get out we kick ass as well as bite, scratch and pinch nuts off. Unfair discrimination will get you an unfair fight.

  4. Brian says

    I don’t know enough of the survey construction to comment on it, so I will just say that I’m extremely surprised by the finding that a quarter of Europe’s gays have been attacked in the last five years. That’s several million people. I thought towleroad featured any gay bashings they came across, and this amount of abuse would really flood this site. If it’s true, it’s extremely underreported, and I’m hanging out with a very fortunate crowd because I don’t know anyone who’s been attacked. The finding that half of Europe’s gays felt discriminated against last year in terms of employment, benefits, housing etc also doesn’t seem to match the previous article with the map showing a pretty gay friendly legal regime in Western Europe, Italy excepted.

  5. Georgie says

    I think the main point of the article should be the fact that this is a GOVERNMENT SPONSORED survey on LGBT issues. The European government actually has a “Fundamental Rights” agency that is concerned with how LGBT live.
    When was the last time you heard of such government sponsored survey in the US?
    I haven’t. Therefore we have no idea what these results would be here in the US. So apparently Europe is still one step ahead on that matter.

  6. ratbastard says


    You do realize reality is often at odds with official policies and what people fantasize was reality? Western European and other governments sometimes do and say the ‘correct’ things, and pass laws for this or that. But none of this translates into everyday reality for MANY people. A lot of times is so much window dressing and, and lets ‘advocates’ and politicians some street cred, and pad their resumes with their ‘successes’ and achievements. A great example is Canada and the U.S. [as wholes]; reality is there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between how the average Canadian and average American thinks in regards to gay issues and almost any other issue. But you’d have a different impression if you judged each country solely by it’s laws.

  7. Jack Ford says

    Well if Russia’s being included, they make up 20% of the total population of Europe. And I think we all know from reading articles how bad it is there.

  8. Francis #1 says

    Things are pretty awful, even in the Netherlands, hate crimes have dramatically risen and over 1/3 don’t feel comfortable being out at work. In the UK right around half of people don’t feel comfortable at work and in Scotland over half of students report being harassed on a regular basis.

    Things have improved to the point our existences are accepted but certainly have not improved to the point where we’re truly accepted as normal and equal to heterosexuals. There’s still an us vs them dichotomy throughout the world. Tolerance, even acceptance, is not the same as being embraced and affirmed.

  9. Brian says

    OK, I’ll drop the tentative language and come out and say that there’s no way the majority of gays in Europe live in fear. Sure there’s discrimination everywhere, but living in fear? Really? It just doesn’t sound plausible. (with the caveat that as Jack Ford points out, if Russia is included in this survey, which I doubt they’d ever allow) it’s quite possible since I would think 100% would feel threatened there.)

  10. Francis #1 says

    I guess by living in fear, what they mean is not actually stepping outside and immediately scared they will die, but more a feeling of insecurity and that something bad could happen if they hold their partner’s hand, or concerned they could lose their job for being LGBT, or if they walk into a bad area they could be attacked, more than a general daily feeling of fear wherever they go. Of course some countries are significantly worse than others.

  11. Jack Ford says

    @Brian – Russia is included.

    @Francis1 – where are you getting these statistics? There is no way that half of the gay people I know here in the UK aren’t out at work unless they are not out at all in which case I doubt they’d respond to a survey like this. I’m gay, most of my friends are gay. Some of them queeny, some of them butch but every single one of them is out at work. Even the older ones. There’s no reason to stay closeted at work unless you have a problem with it personally. Anyone showing an ounce of discrimination or bullying on the workplace would be up for disciplinary action. Do it again and it’s grounds for dismissal. No light-hearted “jokes” or ribbing allowed. Even in the ultra masculine fields like police/firefighters/military/construction etc. all staff have to go through endless sensitivity training.

  12. Roman says

    @Jack Ford- No, Russia is not included. This is a European Commission study; it only includes nations under it’s jurisdiction. Namely: the 27 member states of the European Union.

  13. Jack Ford says

    I was wrong, I thought this was an IGLU study like everything else we’ve been reading about today. Got it mixed up. I freely admit it.

  14. Francis #1 says

    “Similarly in the UK, only 52% of respondents said that they felt able to be ’out to everyone’ at work, and 15% of respondents indicated that they had suffered harassment in the workplace during the past year.”

    So about 1 of every 6-7 gay person in the UK is harassed at work and right around half are out to everyone at work. Half of LGBT persons in the UK are either partially closeted or completely closeted.

    That’s better than the US, at least. In the US, only around 40% of LGBT persons are completely out at work. Over 40% of white-collar workers who are gay are closeted. And there are precious few gay CEO’s and bosses.

    So the fact of the matter is, while homophobia is decreasing, at the very least, heterosexism remains very strong.

  15. ratbastard says

    Sure, no problem sashaying around some town center [sorry, centre] in England on a Saturday night, hand in hand with your BF. Nope, no potential danger of getting whacked on the head with a vodka bottle and/or called mean spirited homophobic slurs. Sure. OK.

    Reminds me of some people who think they’ll see rainbows and unicorns as soon as they cross the U.S / Canadian border.

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