1. Dastius Krazitauc says

    Doesn’t work for me. This paints Clinton as being bolder and more of a leader on gay rights than Obama, and that just doesn’t ring true.

  2. Patric says

    I agree with Dastius. This is so tiresome.

    I am a progressive who volunteered for the then-First Lady’s Senate campaign in 2000 and, though I supported then-Senator Obama in the 2008 primaries, I would absolutely consider supporting Secretary Clinton in the 2016 election and will support her if she is the Dem nominee.

    This tendency of gay Clinton supporters, however, to deify the Secretary and to attribute to her qualities, a record and even positions which she has not demonstrated or taken is tiring and does not serve the interests of our community.

    The facts are that, as a U.S. Senator, she tread very carefully on our issues and certainly was not among the boldest and most progressive of our allies in Congress at the time. Her record as SOS – at a time when public opinion about gay rights had advanced and taking stands for our community did not carry the same political risks for her that it had earlier – was better, consistent with the stands being taken also by the President at the same time. I expect that, if she is elected President, she will make decisions that will advance our interests – in part because the political environment at the time is sure to be conducive to that – but this notion of Clintonistas that she has a record of being bolder or more principled on our issues than the President is just not borne out at all by the historical record (and you can be sure that any Clintonista who attempts to dispute that in this thread will do so without backing up their case with references to the historical record).

    Enough already. She could make a fine President but she is not a saint and her record on our issues is decent but not extraordinary.

  3. says

    Agree, Dastius. I’m not sure what makes the folks at Freedom to Work think that Hillary would sign it, other than wishful thinking–unless I’ve missed some statement she’s made? Nice fantasy, though.

  4. Robert says

    I agree with Dastius. This idea that Hillary would be better for the gays is ridiculous. Unlike Barack Obama, Hillary couldn’t even say she wanted all of DOMA to be repealed when she was running for president–she would have left parts 1 and 2 in place. I have seen no evidence that Hillary Clinton would be a more effective president than Barack Obama on any issue, especially gay rights.

  5. Houndentenor says

    There’s no basis in reality for this. Would she sign the executive order? I’ll believe that when it happens. I don’t believe any promises from a politician and I certainly don’t believe promises made on their behalf by others.

  6. Dastius Krazitauc says

    I was thinking about Hillary’s reticence to lead on gay issues recently when both Chelsea and Bill publicly supported Jason Collins on his coming out, but not a peep from Hillary. I read that has been blamed on her not having a Twitter account, but Bill could have said “Hillary and I…”. Chelsea and Bill both kept her name out of it.

  7. Pat says


    Not to say that either of them were less outspoken in the Senate, but there’s very much a basis in reality for this. Follow her Senate career, and the work she did on ENDA (and trans-inclusiveness) won her over to many LGBTs for a reason.

    I do however think the point of this is for Obama to hurry up and move along before his time passes on this.

  8. Michael Bedwell says

    @ Robert: First, there ARE only two parts to DOMA, and Candidate Hillary, like Candidate Obama, said she supported repeal of the federal part. The other one, about “states rights,” despite Obama’s talking out of one side of his mouth about also wanting to see it repealed, in fact, he then—AND UP UNTIL MARCH OF THIS YEAR—also said he supported a “state’s right” to do what THEY wanted, i.e., allow same-sex marriage OR ban it.

  9. dwarka says

    Agreed about Patric: 100% right. Hilary supporters better not take the gay vote for granted, though most will support her – of course. While I like her, I have no doubt she would throw us under the bus, just like Bill did with DADT and DOMA.

  10. Omar says

    They are both cautious. But Obama is overly cautious. The reason this rings true or rubs some the wrong way is that Hillary has always been much more willing to step out on a limb. Were either them the most progressive politicians.. no, but the most progressive does not equal the best leader. Obama will always be a disappointment compared to the big ideas he spoke of. “If you want something spoken about, ask a man…”

    Hillary is ready to lead.

  11. Patric says

    Thanks, Matthew and dwarka.

    And thank you, Randy, for proving me correct:

    I said that “you can be sure that any Clintonista who attempts to dispute that in this thread will do so without backing up their case with references to the historical record.” And you proclaimed that “[d]uring the 2008 campaign, it was clear who we could trust, and it wasn’t Obama.” I appreciate your assistance in proving my point.

    Pat, you reference “the work she did on ENDA (and trans-inclusiveness)”, which you assert “won her over to many LGBTs for a reason.” I’d like to know more, since a quick Google search seemed to suggest that in fact there was a lot of dissatisfaction with her statements while in the Senate about, in particular, an ENDA including protections for trans individuals. See, e.g., , , and

  12. Patric says

    And, Omar, thanks for also illustrating my point:

    You proclaim boldly that “Hillary has always been much more willing to step out on a limb” but cite not a single fact to support your argument. I know, I know: in Clintonista world, had Senator Clinton been elected President in 2008, Mississippi, Russia and Malawi would all now have marriage equality and we’d have a single-payer system of health insurance and world peace.

  13. nola fred says

    She was able to effect some changes while she was at the State Dept. for its employees. Of course she was constrained in what she could do by prevailing Civil Service-OPM rules and regs.

    Despite holding back in supporting same-sex marriage, Hillary Clinton was a strong support of gay rights, both in the U.S. and abroad, during her tenure at the State Department. Under her watch, the U.S. government made it official policy to promote gay rights around the world.

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