Comments

  1. says

    Beautiful story. And we see this when we march with PFLAG every year – the faces of the people lining the parade route. The smiles, the tears – we march for them. Over the years I’ve seen parents go from struggling to accept their child to marching with big ol’ “I LOVE MY TRANS DAUGHTER” sings. love makes a family.

  2. Leo says

    Both kids. WHOA. Those are some amazing parents. Not implying that they shouldn’t be…but…Wow.

    Honestly I’m stunned – blame it on being relatively sheltered I guess.

    Good for them.

  3. Tyler says

    Lol! Yeah, I’m sure the parents are celebrating. Yay! My formerly lovely daughter has chopped off her breasts, injected herself with testosterone and now has a round womanish face with transplanted pubes sticking out of her chin! Someone break open the champagne!

  4. Troll says

    For the record, the reason I’m posting nasty comments under other people’s names is that this story upsets me. It upsets me because I was never loved and accepted by my own family as a gay man, so I don’t like when transpeople get accepted by their families. That’s why I come here every day.

  5. Toba says

    From what I’ve heard, the reason you march with PFLAG is because you mom owns that group in Toronto. That’s what wealthy people do. They throw around their privilege and take ownership. As her son, you enjoy the fruits of that harpy’s privilege. Bet you strut around next to her like a peacock don’t ya?

  6. Tyler says

    I think all of us should celebrate the contributions of trans men to the field of abnormal psychology. They are few in number, but their contributions to our understanding of madness has been significant.

    BTW, the primary organization representing FTMs seeking reassignment surgery admits that the infusion of testosterone into the body causes increased anger and violent aggression. So the next time your transman son comes over for a celebration, it is recommended to hide the cutlery and ensure a safe distance between the transman and young children.

  7. says

    Oh, sorry. I just realized after my years of obsessive stalking of you that your parents VOLUNTEER with PFLAG – which is a non-profit organization. So, I stand corrected – your family is volunteering, to help other families. That’s why I’m so angry at KIWI. My family would never do that for me, and rather than be happy that other families are doing good work I’m choosing to obsess over him. I’m not mentally healthy, and I’m not an impressive person, and nobody loves me. And I hate when transpeople are accepted and loved, because it reminds me of everything I’ll never know.

    Remember dear readers, I’m a cowardly hateful troll and I will never show you all who I am. I’m simply not man enough. And I never will be.

  8. Toba says

    Little Kiwi, yes you are correct. I am not man enough. That is because I am not a man at all. I am a woman. A real woman, with 2 lovely X chromosomes and all the necessary parts in place from day 1. Not like the chemically altered, nipped, tucked and pasted monstrosities you celebrate.

    And the stories about your ghastly mother and the way she treats people at PFLAG are well known. Entitled, overbearing and judgmental. Like harpy, like medicated son.

  9. says

    I guess what upsets me most is that nobody loves me and so stories about transpeople being loved are a reminder that my hatred that I spew online hasn’t actually made my own life better.

    And I will continue to obsess about people who don’t live a coward’s life, like the one i’m barely living. Because I’m a Troll – and when I die it will be alone.

  10. petey says

    It’s also interesting that transgenders are very conformist in their choices. They conform to gender stereotypes appearance-wise – eg all male to female transgenders have long flowing hair. It really is a conformist fetish.

  11. Derrick from Philly says

    Well, it never ends, does it?

    I’m here at work on a Saturday, and so you know I’ve had a little bit to drink, and I’ll have a little bit more…a lot.

    Rick,

    you posted under Tyler’s name some hateful bullsh1t.

    When one looks at documentaries such as “Before Stonewall” or “The Celluloid Closet” or “Paris Is Burning”– you realize (if you have any sense) that Transgender folk have always been part of the Gay culture(s) and the Gay Civil Rights Movement. It is their movement also.

    Gay and Transgender are two “umbrella” terms. There are a whole lot of people who fit under both big umbrellas.

    Tomorrow is Gay Pride Sunday in Philly, and there will a lot of Transgender folk there. Good, I’m grateful to them.

  12. Thomas says

    Derrick From Philly,

    Gee, I’ve seen all those movies and didn’t come to your conclusion at all. But anyway, if trans people want to support gay rights, I think that is awesome. We should accept support from as many groups as we can. But just because some trans people might support gay rights doesn’t make us one people with all transgenders any more than it makes us one people with labor unions or Democrats.

    I have long supported Latino rights but that makes me an ally. It doesn’t require Latinos to give up their identity and become “one people” with gay people.

    There is no such thing as LGBT.

  13. Tanico says

    Can someone tell me what they have down there? Is it a vag or what? I cant see how a doctor can create a male penis out of a vag so it would have to be some kind of inflatable thing?

  14. ScottCA says

    As I predicted, the transphobia and “their” fight is not “ours” started almost immediately. Its always SO tiresome. Why not make a G group and an L group and a B group as well as a separate T group while we are at it? You gay men and lesbians and bi folk really don’t have anything in common either do you?

  15. Paul B. says

    If we haven’t learned to embrace the differences in each other that we don’t understand…at least find the compassion to keep your nasty mouth shut. Maybe, someday, if you’re lucky…it will come to you Toba, Rick, Petey…whatever!

  16. Terri says

    That’s very lovely Buckie. Please go to the trans blogs, where they attack and abuse and degrade LGB people on a daily basis and negate their insane cruelty with LOVE.

  17. Thedrdonna says

    How is it anti-gay, Franklin? Nobody has ever been able to answer that in a way that makes sense. They just claim that all trans people are homophobic then refuse to back it up with anything other than maybe referencing a few internet whiners, which is hardly indicative of the whole community.

  18. franklin says

    It must be comforting for straight parents not to have to label their children now as gay or lesbian – they are just transgendered, basically suffering from a malady. Not only has the trans lobby demanded the removal of any and all references to gay and lesbian people from all organizations and events, they are now going after children, demanding hormone therapy to prevent puberty.

  19. Thedrdonna says

    @Franklin: hormone therapy doesn’t prevent puberty, it would cause it. And, name one organization that the “trans lobby” has pressured to remove references to gay and lesbian people. Could you possibly be referencing trans people asking to be included? Because that’s not the same thing at all.

  20. Sarah Jane Smith says

    DrDonna, LGBs are about to lose protections in Houston because those protections are tied to transgender bathroom selection issues. You are using us to benefit yourselves and trans activists insist that LGBs actively oppose their own rights unless those rights are bundled with transgender stuff. This is an attack on gay people as far as I am concerned.

    BTW, you are a real creep supporting the idea that rape by deception is not legitimate rape. Your attitudes are a menace to women. Fortunately, in your case no one would ever believe that you are a real woman so unless you seek out blind victims, rape by deception is not gonna be an option for ya.

  21. Thedrdonna says

    How do you figure? The ordinance passed.

    And, I don’t think that failing to disclose one’s trans past is rape by deception, any more than failing to disclose that one is a republican, or failing to disclose that one is mixed-race. But, of course you aren’t actually going to discuss this in a logical manner, you just want to use scary-sounding phrases to try to discredit me. Sounds a lot like the social conservative playbook, doesn’t it?

  22. Paul B. says

    Dear Sarah Jane…there’s a pill for what ails you dear…a happy pill or maybe a “not such a c-pill”. If you don’t have one in your cabinet…cocktails will help…lot’s of cocktails I would think.

  23. says

    Amazing how the simple love between some parents and their transgender children can make a few anti-trans trolls so outraged and blindly hateful that they go off on all kinds of crazy rants. Memo to Sarah Jane etc: It’s not DrDonna who comes off as unhinged and creepy, it’s you.

    Meanwhile, great to see that these parents are much more enlightened that the predictable trans-hater(s) here.

  24. Johnnybegood says

    I must have missed something Sarah…where did the “rape by deception” thing come from? Are you implying that it occurs by the simple act of a transgendered person using the bathroom they identify with? Would you define “rape by deception” so we all know exactly what you mean.

  25. Sarah Jane Smith says

    JohnnyBGoode-

    It relates to drive-by postings by TheDrDonna supporting the “right” of transgenders to lie to their partners to gain sexual access to their bodies. TheDrDonna has a mentality similar to that of Elliot Roger, who was outraged that women wouldn’t have sex with him and thus deprived him of something to which he was entitled. DrDonna imagines himself to be a woman, but he is the worst sort of patriarchal, rape-oriented male, who wants sex with women and is prepared to lie to get it. Among the normal male population, his views would be in the small minority. He is the worst of the lot.

    Thankfully even if he is prepared to trick his victims into sex, lying would do him no good b/c he will never pass, no matter how much he burdens the health care system in his quest to try.

    DrDonna, I guess you don’t care enough to keep up with the news. They are circulating a petition to repeal the ordinance in its entirety. The focus is 100% on the transgender bathroom portion of the bill, something which easily could have been addressed in a separate bill. But it was more important to trans activists to hold everything hostage and harm LGBs in order to get what they want. It seems to be a pattern with you folks. Do and say anything to satisfy yourself: transgender morality.

  26. j says

    I’m curious what sexuality these two identify as- that seems a legitimate question. If they are now transgender men I assume they were formally lesbian women – are they still attracted to women? If so, do they now identify as straight? It would make sense – they are identifying as men and are interested sexually in women = heterosexual. Do they get straight privilege when out with their girlfriends? If so, then there are legitimate questions of how these folks fit with lesbians and gay men – who cannot claim straight privilege – it would seem L&G share little common ground with transfolks – whose issue seems to be gender dysphoria and by throwing our lot with them and their struggle we end up taking energy away from other fights that are more central –
    I don’t have anything against transgender folks – I wish them well – I am not sure their fight is my fight –

  27. Thedrdonna says

    @Sarah: I see that among the insulting ad hominems and misinformation, you actually said something that might approach a response to my statement. Although, you seem to have inexplicably missed the entire part where I pointed out how you’re wrong and how you’re using the same fearmongering tactics that are usually used by the far right. Care to respond?

    Also: there are no certainties that the repeal effort will get a vote, or that if it goes to a vote that it will be successful. But, you’re already ready to blame trans folk for that, aren’t you? I bet the extremists pushing the vote would have left it alone if it weren’t for those awful trans folks.

  28. Johnnybegood says

    It sounds like Sarah & Donna have a history that they need to work through. I have to say Sarah…if you come off as an angry bitter “B”…you’re going to alienate some who might otherwise be willing to listen. You’re sounding hysterical, and not in the good way, and that causes someone like me to dismiss you as a wingnut. I’ve followed the Houston thing for a while and I doubt very much what you’re saying will come to pass. Although I can see why some might want to propagate that kind of hysteria…it discredits you in my eyes and begs the question…who are you… really?

  29. Sarah Jane Smith says

    Respond to what? You haven’t said anything. It’s just word salad and denials. Let me know when you are ready to engage over your rape mentality.

    On Houston: First you deny there is a problem. Then you belittle to fact that thousands of LGBs are in fear of losing their protections because of trans activists like you. Then you evade responsibility by inventing a hypothetical scenario that might have played out if the bill hadn’t been transjacked. You have real privilege issues.

  30. Thedrdonna says

    I don’t believe anything I wrote was particularly difficult to understand, if you’d care to point out which part you found confusing I can rewrite it to be more accessible. And, it’s disingenuous to claim that I don’t care about one subset of people losing their jobs when you’re advocating another subset losing that same protection.

    Johnny, I don’t know that I’ve ever talked to Sarah before this post, but it’s kind of funny, somehow all the transphobic commenters here all seem to work from the same set of knowledge. You’ll be talking to one and they’ll suddenly be referencing something you said to another one a year ago (although of course what was said is usually misrepresented so as to “prove” how all trans people are demons who are sucking the lifeblood out of poor decent hardworking LGB folk).

  31. Johnnybegood says

    TheDD…maybe I’m not understanding this yet because I don’t consider myself transphobic. Here’s the simple Johnny talking now. The whole Prop 8 thing caused me to realize even more how important our communities are to each other…joined at the hip in fact. When a large portion of the black community abandoned us in our fight for marriage equality…it broke heart and pissed me off. I couldn’t believe that one oppressed group couldn’t understand & support the struggle of another. Long & short of it…it’s LGBT as far as I’m concerned and we’re not “there”, until we’re all “there”. To me it’s very simple and there’s not much to debate. I’m happy for the progress we’ve made in regards to marriage equality….but the fight goes on for all those who are oppressed because of who they are. I’m a child of the 60’s and this is my personal dogma.

  32. says

    @Sarah, I’m not sure what you’re hoping to accomplish by using a celebratory post about parental acceptance to vent your personal hostility towards TheDrDonna? Are you hoping people will read it and think: wow, these parents are horrible people for loving their evil transgender sons? Are you hoping we’ll all be enraged that TheDrDonna has the nerve to dispute the accusations you’re leveling apropos of nothing?

    If so, I fear you’ll be disappointed. What your (and the few other anti-trans commenters who never participate in TR discussions except to rage about the T in LGBT) weird animosity actually shows is the level of ignorance and intolerance trans people are faced with every day, the same kind of ignorance that, historically, LGB people have faced. Scratch a homophobe and you’ll find a transphobe. Yet, some (allegedly) gay people see no overlap and have no qualms about becoming bedfellows with the very people who hate us, too.

    In any event, whatever case you and the other transphobes on these threads are trying to make, you’re failing. You complain about trans-community intolerance while coming across as the most bitter, intolerant, miserable person/people on earth. Happy people don’t hate.

  33. Thedrdonna says

    Hi Johnny. You don’t sound like you’re bigoted against trans folk, at least from what I’ve read. What Sarah is referring to is a debate that has been ongoing in the trans community (and outside of it) for a while, revolving around the issue of disclosure. Sarah feels that if a trans person doesn’t tell someone that they’re trans before sleeping with them, that is rape. Personally, I feel that being trans is like being bisexual or republican or mixed-race: if the other person has an issue with it, then obviously you aren’t going to be having a long-term relationship, but by no means are you required to tell them about it before a sexual encounter in case they change their mind. Now, I can and will change my opinion if someone sways me with good logic, but oddly enough yelling “rape” at me isn’t exactly going to carry the day. And, obviously, she would rather use that to discredit me than actually have a discussion about a complex subject.

  34. Johnnybegood says

    TheDD…unfortunately, some of us don’t communicate well and resort to temper tantrums.I had a daughter like that when she was very young (7) and luckily she grew out of it…but it was difficult for a time. I guess having been in a business where “full disclosure” was key…I’m conflicted here. If a person thinks that gaining knowledge of our transgender status will change another persons course of action…it seems disclosure would be appropriate. Personally, I wouldn’t find myself wanting to have sex with that kind of person but I’m past the age of being controlled by my libido…thank you. I do believe in “full disclosure”, if for nothing else than to avoid conflict and possible bodily harm. I would hope that disclosing our true self would make us more attractive to someone, but if not, I would look elsewhere for sexual fulfillment. Call me old fashioned!

  35. TheDrDonna says

    See, I agree that it would be best if someone is pre-op, or if someone wants something more than a one-night-stand. That said, a trans woman is a woman, a trans man is a man, and if nobody’s going to get a surprise when the pants come off then I don’t think that disclosure is *required*. I, personally, would tell even before things got that far, because I’m not interested in anything that doesn’t have the potential to become a long term relationship, but I don’t judge others who feel that the past is the past, or hetero/bi trans women who don’t always know if their suitor won’t respond with violence. As I said, it’s a complex issue with no easy answers, so I don’t think it’s going to be settled anytime soon. Of course, instantly labeling those you disagree with as either “endorsing rape” or “transphobes” shuts down the conversation, but it doesn’t solve it.

  36. Johnnybegood says

    The DD…That’s helps me understand it better although I don’t entirely agree with you. Obviously, the “rape” thing is not up for serious discussion, in my opinion. How silly is that? But there are other legal issues that concern me…disclosure is the only word that keeps coming up for me. Why not disclose? The answer seems simple to me…because you think it will deprive you of sex. Not good enough. If you’ve entered into a potentially dangerous situation…back out gracefully and never go back there. Come on, sex is great…but can’t we discern what’s right/wrong without asking our genitals? I remember my lusty years…and I was a dog…but I never entered into a sexual encounter with a secret agenda. If I thought “they” would want to know…I told “them”.

  37. Thedrdonna says

    I don’t know. I think that there’s probably a lot of people out there, democrats living in staunchly conservative areas, bisexuals who are trying to live straight lives…there’s a lot of closets out there, and I don’t think it’s easy to point at one specific person and say they’re obligated to leave theirs. I certainly would never consider telling a closeted gay man that he must come out to the woman he’s currently attempting to woo.

  38. Johnnybegood says

    Maybe I’m just too old for secrets DD. I think it may seem harmless & convenient at the time but turns out it’s really not. The truth is that the only secret I keep to this day haunts me all the time. I’m realizing as I age that deceptions, secrets, closets… are all corrosive…even the ones that work. So, spill the beans & get it on…or spill the beans & get out of town. You are what you are and they want you or they don’t. Peace & good night DD.

  39. Sarah Jane Smith says

    DrDonna, as usual, is being dishonest. The issue was not some general duty to disclose transgender identity. The issue was refusing to disclose to an imminent sexual partner – EVEN WHEN you know or have reason to know that the information would be material to your partner’s decision to have sex with you. And Donna has gone even further and supported not just non-disclosure but active lying to the partner, for the purpose of achieving sexual access.

    This is rape. Not only is it “up for serious discussion” Johnny, it is the law. When consent to sex is thwarted, whether by violence, threat of violence, drugs and alcohol or deceit, the resulting act is rape.

    To justify this because transfolk need sex is the mentality of a rapist and of Elliot Roger. This is Donna’s sick mentality. Trans activists desperately try to portray their movement as progressive, even as an offshoot of the LGB equality movement. But in fact it is deeply reactionary and misogynistic.

    This is what Donna comes here to push on us. This is the person who comes here to dispense moral lectures to Towleroad readers, when in fact he should be seeing a therapist.

    In the criminal law, whenever there develops a belief that criminal conduct is legitimate or justified or that prohibited conduct is “complex” or that “there are questions with no easy answers”, then there needs to be a response in the form of an enhancement of deterrence. This issue isn’t difficult or complex for anyone other than trans activists who want to facilitate sex hookups with nonconsenting partners via deceit. Which is why there is a movement today to enhance criminal penalties for precisely this sort of criminal conduct.

  40. Johnnybegood says

    Sarah…you’ve got to figure out a way to make your valid point without agitating & fabricating. I agree with much of what you just said…although presentation is seriously lacking…resulting in the loss of credibility.
    Yes, it’s deceitful to lure anyone into sex with information that should be disclosed…but to my knowledge the jury is still out on criminality. And, that’s the debate…not DD’s “sick mentality”. You’ve really got to get a grip on that anger…you sound like a loose cannon. I think the enhancement of deterrence you mention is on it’s way in some form, it only makes sense. But I also think it’s got to be narrowly targeted, precisely aimed at what you’re describing as “rape”…not transgender people in general who deserve equal access. And…to your issue with “them” and “us”…shame on you. Too much lawyerism and not enough humanity.

  41. Paul B. says

    OK, this is good dialogue. A little less name calling would be nice though. I’m learning a lot about this issue here. An issue that as a gay man who is just coming out of a life of repression and misunderstanding and into the light…sincerely believes that respectful dialogue is both progressive & persuasive. It’s a great tool Sarah…

  42. SARAH JANE SMITH says

    I accept your criticism Johnny and Paul B. FWIW, my tone comes from viewing many thousands of words posted on trans blogs, where you get to see what Ts really think of “cis” people, including LGBs. It is really horrible.

    They – and yes, I said “they” – don’t respect LGBs in the least. On their own fora, they show deep contempt for us, and are primarily concerned about how effective they are in using us for their own objectives. On these same trans blogs, you see the justification of lying to partners to trick them into sex. And believe me, on those blogs it is not “complex” or a “question with no easy answers.” On those blogs, the discussion of getting sex by lying is defiant and celebratory.

    So I don’t see much reason to put on airs when someone like TDD shows up here to try to spin and control the discussion of T stories and to lecture us about morality.

  43. says

    Sarah Jane Smith – go practice your oral sex skills on a shotgun.

    I’m an openly gay man, and you can click my name to see who I am – and i have a great many transgender friends and allies whom i love and support, and who love and support me.

    you have nothing but a fake screen name used to spew you usual lies. i’m dead serious: off yourself. you’re a person of no worth.

    all your hatred against the trans community is a sad reflection on how your own family never loved you.

    My truth outweighs your lies.

  44. Johnnybegood says

    Sarah…of course reading that kind of stuff is hurtful and infuriating. I remind myself that it’s small group of angry hurt people who are very focused on their own pain. And, it’s not hard to understand why. However, the vast majority of us LGBT’s are not in that place. Maybe we need to make that more vocal but I honestly believe that most of us in this community are united in many ways…much more than we are divided by issues like this. I personally don’t participate in sex achieved by omission…certainly not by outright lying. Well, maybe that’s a place that we all arrive at in our own good time but I like it here and I would hope if we’re ever in doubt about whether we should or shouldn’t disclose the truth of ourselves, for whatever reason…we make the right choice. Pollyanna…I know.

  45. SARAH JANE SMITH says

    “go practice your oral sex skills on a shotgun. . . . i’m dead serious: off yourself. you’re a person of no worth.”

    This right here is the true spirit of trans activism. It portrays itself as progressive, but at its core, it is angry, violent, and contemptuous of the lives of others, including LGBs.

  46. Johnnybegood says

    Come on Sarah…what did you expect when you compare people to serial killers & rapists.
    Kiwi represented his own feelings…and once again you twist it into what you consider to be “the true spirit of trans-activism”. You just don’t get it do you? You sew the seeds of hatred and you reap what you sew. Most of us reading your comments probably just dismiss you as another loonie…and I guess I’m inclined to agree. Is that really what you hoped to achieve because I can tune into Fox and get that anytime…but choose not to.

  47. says

    JOHNNYBEGOOD, you can go off yourself too. So what if transfolk kill cisprey from time to time? So what if they pursue transgressive expressions of sexuality? I stand with my trans sisters!

    Your father hated you just like your mother did. There is no place on Earth for you, waste of space.

  48. Anon says

    Sarah,

    You’re a troll. You did remarkably well goading people into responding to your content and not your game, so congrats for that.

    Your oppressive pronouncements only generate the remedy, the counterdiscourse to deconstruct them. In a way your game actually helps LGBTs refine their values and arguments. You failed to actually create any doubt or discord.

    The fact that you think people like Venus Extravaganza are rapists and not victims is almost laughable. But the joke is really on you Sarah.

    Rather than spending so much time trolling LGBT sites, try learning about trolls and trolling. Try learning to fix yourself before you insert yourself into situations.

  49. Anon says

    @ JOHNNYBEGOOD

    This post “LITTLE KIWI | JUN 8, 2014 7:56:18 PM” was not written by Little Kiwi.

    Trolls impersonate him as part of their identity game all the time because he is one of the few who identifies himself and argues with them. It’s just an attempt to defame him.

    If you see posts by Little Kiwi that seem non sequitur, they most probably aren’t by him.

  50. says

    thank you, ANON, and yes – that wasn’t me.

    hey SARAH TROLL SOMETHING – post the links to the “trans blogs” you keep talking about. yeah. exactly.

    i’m an openly gay and i stand in solidarity with my trans brothers and sisters. when i was coming out, 15 years ago, back when i was a teenager, a great number of trans people were my biggest supports. their strength and resilience inspired me to be the in-your-face non-apologist you see today. and thank god for that.

  51. Johnnybegood says

    Thanks ANON…that’s what I meant when I wrote Not…KIWI. Sorry that wasn’t clear. I’ve read a lot of Kiwi here on T, and there are things he just wouldn’t put in print…even if he had the thought in his head. Let’s just say that if he did write that garbage…it would be a big disappointment to me. I’m sure it’s someone out for a Sunday troll.

  52. says

    when i was attending the national equality march back in 2009, i got to talk with a lot of long-time activists and advocates. they all told me the same thing: when you make yourself visible as an advocate or activist you will become the target for deranged, obsessive unhealthy people who cannot live with the openness that you do. they were right. but they were also right that it says more about their cowardice than it does about me. so there :)

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