Austin Trans Woman Humiliated By Lingerie Store Staff Member

A lingerie store in Austin, Texas has been accused of humiliating a transgender customer, reports Jezebel.com.

On her Facebook page, Kylie Jack said that a staff member at Petticoat Fair asked her for ID stating she was female.  Jack was also told that she had to have undergone sex reassignment surgery in order to have a fitting.

Kylie jack comment facebook

According to its website, "every woman [at Petticoat Fair] is treated with respect and given one-on-one attention and is helped to feel comfortable and confident in properly fitted undergarments."

JackThe store’s owner Kirk Andrews has since posted a lengthy apology which reads in part:

"There seems to be a misconception that Petticoat Fair has a policy of not working with the transgendered community. That is not the case. In fact, we have served the transgendered community for most of our 50 years in Austin. What we do have is a policy regarding who may or may not enter our fitting rooms.

The dressing room area is a particularly private and vulnerable place for many women and girls, so it's a protected area. For that reason, we also have a completely separate dressing area for women who have undergone mastectomies and need post-surgical care.

Just as a gym won't allow men in a women's dressing room for the comfort and safety of its patrons, we don't allow men or boys above a certain age in our dressing area.

Despite our otherwise inclusive approach, those who might be or who outwardly appear to be men (regardless of how they are dressed) pose a delicate challenge, and in the case of imposters, can pose a safety risk to the Petticoat Fair staff.

We respect our customers at Petticoat Fair. All of them. I hope that with this explanation, you have some helpful insight to who we are, how we do business, and that we are open to a productive dialogue."

In a response to Kirk’s apology, Jack replied:

"Kirk is sincere in his efforts to do better, but only time and actual action will tell. I'll consider the issue resolved when a formal public apology is issued to the Austin trans community along with the steps they're taking to update their policies to be trans-friendly and trans-inclusive."

Comments

  1. Wizard says

    “in the case of imposters, can pose a safety risk to the Petticoat Fair staff.” – Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh… I wonder how many instances over the years Petticoat Fair has experienced heterosexual male predators dressing as women to exploit the changing rooms… PLEASE.

  2. Wizard says

    “in the case of imposters, can pose a safety risk to the Petticoat Fair staff.” – Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh… I wonder how many instances over the years Petticoat Fair has experienced heterosexual male predators dressing as women to exploit the changing rooms… PLEASE.

  3. Kieran says

    Question :

    Are the majority of trans men just men who could not accept that they are gay and decided to buck into the hate of anti-gay opposition and “become” female in order to fit in.

    I suspect so.

    *Tish Gervais

  4. UNFAIR TO WHO says

    Wait a minute! If she hasn’t fully gone through the surgery and still has MALE genitalia, then the Store has every right to refuse service. What about the rights of the sales woman who may have felt extremely uncomfortable in a private fitting knowing that the customer still has MALE genitalia. Why is it that it’s ok to humiliate her? Where are her rights? And think about this, whose to say that someone pretending to be “Transgender” gets a private fitting and then sexually assaults the sales person! Then what? I’m starting to think that perhaps there is an agenda here where you can’t say anything!!!! This is still America!!!!

  5. says

    Gender is not about genitalia –

    here’s an example for the stupidest of you to think about: let’s say you’re in an accident (scratch that – let’s HOPE you get in an accident) and in said accident your penis is severed. You now no longer have a penis. Does this make you a woman?

    No. and that’s why “she hasn’t had the genital surgery yet” non-answer is a bogus baseless excuse.

    were this site’s worthless cowardly trans-hating troll to lose his penis in an accident, it would not mean that “he’s now a woman” – just as this woman not yet having had that surgery (if she’s even going to have it, at all…) does not mean that she is a man.

    You don’t need a physical penis to sexually assault someone.

    But hey, feel free to ignore this rational logic, oh cowardly troll. Also feel free to chug a bottle of bleach.

  6. will says

    General rule of thumb: It’s a bad idea to have penises mixing in with naked changing women. This applies to bathrooms, gym showers, lingerie fittings. Seriously, where are the rights of the women who don’t want to see penises? Wait until you get your surgery, THEN proceed with your discrimination claims.

  7. says

    Will – what other women would have been in the same change room as him and seen anything? oh, right. NONE.

    it’s not as if tradespeople only deserve equality once they can pony up the EXTRAORDINARY amount of money needed for many of these surgeries.

    but hey, who are you anyway oh Trans-Hating Coward? You’re nothing. You’re less than s**t.

  8. Paul R says

    @Kieran: I don’t wade into these silly, unproductive Towleroad “discussions” too often, but do you honestly believe that there are tons of men who think it would be a lot easier to be trans and go through the physical, financial, emotional, social, and myriad other costs to become a woman, as opposed to just being gay?

    Really. Just think about it. Being trans is enormously difficult. Being gay is hardly a bed of roses 24/7, especially in some places, but it’s decidedly easier than being trans. And most gay men can pass as straight if forced to for whatever reason (safety, money, etc.). Most trans people–and I don’t say this as a slight—are never fully convincing in appearing to be the gender they believe themselves to be, so it’s a neverending battle.

    Seriously, claiming that “choosing” to be trans because it’s a lot easier than coming out as gay is patently absurd.

  9. Kieran says

    Paul

    Real Trans people don’t get surgery….TRUE

    Btw, from my own experience…every.single.trans woman was just a poor excuse for a powerful gay male.

    Always their story was about not fitting in…so they cut it off.

    Sorry I’m right.

  10. will says

    Then why not just allow ALL men into the women’s changing rooms? Is the problem then solved?

    It’s okay to discriminate against pensises in the ladies changing rooms.

    Anyone who argues against this common sense seems to have a selfish agenda.

  11. says

    Kieran – you’re just a trolling cowardly hack. You’re right? prove it. i call your bluff. put your wimpy face online and say your “claims” from a place of honest visibility.

    or, do what you usually do – cycle through various screen names and vent your hatred like an anonymous wimp.

  12. Gliese says

    Who cares? This has nothing to do with being gay.

    This business shouldn’t be apologizing to anyone. Transgenders have many, many problems and they foist them onto businesses and third parties. This transgender, who BTW looks mildly terrifying, should work on his/her psychological issues and stop transferring self-doubt and rage to others. BTW, if the FB post about the store’s policy is false, then the store should seriously consider suing the tranny for libel. Trannies tend to have little money, but the judgment could be collected over 20 years and it would be a good statement that the store won’t buckle to transgender activists’ thug tactics.

  13. says

    “Gliese” is the same troll. a miserable insecure loser with no life who spews hate anonymously to distract himself from the fact that his entire family wishes they’d sprung for that abortion all those years ago.

    Sorry. I’m right.

  14. Kieran says

    Trans people don’t exist unless porn and Laverne Cox are involved.

    Still, they don’t deserved to be killed. I’m for everyone KIWI! You dipdong.

    Listen, Snipping and cutting off your penis is for betas.

    CASE CLOSED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. Tyler says

    No offense to “Kylie” (lol!), but getting fitted for a bra doesn’t make you a woman. And based on that pic, a bra is not going to be fooling anyone.

  16. Will says

    I’m not in anyway shape or form part of the Will post above.

    I don’t understand the hatred towards transpeople on here. I remember before I came out (to even myself) my mother was telling me about a man at her work who had the surgery and I was repulsed by it and said that such surgery should be illegal. Years later I’m repulsed by those comments I made.

    Transpeople are in no way any different than the fight we have fought and are winning. It’s such a shame so many gay men think it’s wrong.

  17. Talisman says

    The client shouldn’t have to strip down completely to have a bra fitted.

    If she is wearing pants or a skirt, she merely needs to take off her top. If she is wearing a dress, have her change into something else. Heck, the store can keep a supply of skirts or pants that they can then send out for cleaning.

    The employee assigned to help this person can stand just outside the dressing room while the client is changing.

    And if the employee does feel threatened, ask another employee to stand outside the door.

    There’s no need to make a big production about it.

  18. Lance says

    This comment war made me chuckle. Just an observation that it’s funny how much Little Kiwi is hating on others for hating on others… 😉

    I very rarely read the comments, so I don’t know if Little Kiwi has a continuous beef with the trolls, but a little less preachin’ and a little more practicin’ might be in order.

    Flame on!

  19. Michael Sawyer says

    I agree with the store owner on this one for the sake of women. 1 in 3 women in the U.S. will be subject to some form of mental, verbal, and/or physical violence in the U.S. and you may have transexual men who still identify as straight but still wish dress as women, and some of them may be predators.

    The clerk needs training, and for goodness sake a compromise can be made. But I do not believe in allowing penis into a women’s dressing room, regardless of the gender, outfit, or identity of that which covers the penis. Hell, I am an OBVIOUS gay male and yet when I see a woman walking down the street, I make sure every inch of my body language and posture is non threatening.

  20. Thedrdonna says

    @Michael Sawyer: trans omen account for 45% of all hate-based murders reported in the US. For pretty much every metric regarding violence victims, trans women are at a significantly higher rate than their cis counterparts.

    And, regarding the myth that predators are going to use this to attack women, that almost never happens. There have been one or two highly-publicized cases where something approximately like your scenario occurred, but the vast majority of crimes of that nature have trans women as the victim.

  21. Kevin says

    Here’s a business opportunity for transgender entrepreneurs: Start a clothing shop that caters to the transgender community. I know that some trans people and drag queen/kings have trouble finding their sizes in things and it would seem to me that a store that catered to these folk’s needs would be profitable as well as a place that they could feel comfortable and “pampered.”

    Just a thought.

  22. Anon says

    @TALISMAN, thank you for pointing all that out.

    In addition, even pre-op transexuals are probably on hormones that precludes the possibility of an erection.

    @LANCE “funny how much Little Kiwi is hating on others for hating on others.” – If you’re implying that you are tolerant of intolerance, you’ve gone too far…

    That trans woman deserved to be served, and shouldn’t have been subject to being carded; her genitals were/are none of the staff’s or patrons’ business.

    Predators?! Get a clue.

  23. Mike in the Tundra says

    @ Ratbastard – I have a friend who underwent the surgery about 20 years ago. She looks like a man in drag, but she is happy. She knows how she looks, but she finally has a body that feels right to her. She enjoys the clothes, the hairdos, the makeup, and everything that goes with being a woman.

    I know the courage involved with coming out, but I don’t think I would have the courage to do what a lot of transgender people have to do.

  24. ernest1960 says

    Wait a minute, did Little Kiwi actually tell someone to chug a bottle of bleach simply because they had differing opinions?!? Wow. SMH. I guess that’s how bullies get away with stuff. (And, yes, I fully expect to get the LK treatment). Don’t care.

  25. Lexis says

    I agree with Michael Sawyer’s POV.

    The store sounds sincere. And for the record, while they appear to be accomodating, not all of their customers may be that way. And if one of their store clerks were to make a mistake involving an imposter who ended up doing something, they might be sued by other female customers for failing to protect them.

  26. Anthony says

    Except it is to 99% of the population. The way they treated her was dead wrong and unacceptable, BUT it shows the need for dialog and conversation. Some trans folks and their allies keep attempting the shove it down everyone elses throat because they say so approach -and thats never, ever gonna acheive any positive results.

    im not trans, but I imagine were I wanting a fiting in an old school bra store,knowing the way the world’s understanding stands right now, I would have called ahead and explained the scenario and made sure sypathetic folks would be there to help me. Yeah, it sucks that a trans woman would have to take that extra step… but till she doesn’t its just not rational to be surprised when assholes like this clerk act this way.

  27. Tyler says

    Lol at TheDrDonna! For the longest time, tranny activists like DrDonna would scold anyone who spoke out on behalf of women’s safety, which is put at risk when any man can claim to be a tranny and gain access to women’s bathrooms, lockers and dressing rooms.

    “You bigot! That’s a myth! That has never happened anywhere!” was the standard response.

    Well, now that multiple women have been raped in just such a scenario – only made possible because transgender laws forced facilities to let men into women’s areas – well, now Dr Donna says that “it only happened a few times.” Hey, what’s a few rapes to a trans activist. Far more important that businesses and women’s shelters make her feel pretty.

  28. Randy says

    While Petticoat Fair is clearly in the wrong here, I am also annoyed by the terminology in the Facebook snapshot.

    Which policies are transphobic, which policies are cissexist, and what is the difference between a transphobic policy and a cissexist policy?

    Trans people: if you label everyone else “cis”, which is NOT a label we choose for ourselves, you are also exhibiting bias.

    Regarding the store’s statement: “Despite our otherwise inclusive approach, those who might be or who outwardly appear to be men (regardless of how they are dressed) pose a delicate challenge, and in the case of imposters, can pose a safety risk to the Petticoat Fair staff.” That is utterly ridiculous. A woman is just as much of a threat as a man, and could be more so because they are not suspected by this store as being threatening. This is a simple case of bold prejudice against masculine women, and transwomen. It’s a disgrace.

  29. Thedrdonna says

    Yeah, Tyler, right: let’s also point out that sometimes people leave their heterosexual spouse after coming out as gay, thus the gays destroy straight marriage! It’s all so simple when we ignore things like cause and effect, or context!

  30. Thedrdonna says

    Really Nicos? Then the genital monitors in my town have really been falling down on the job. I can’t think of the last time I had my genitals checked before entering a bathroom.

  31. meh says

    My god, this site has some of the most retarded commenters on the Internet. That’s saying a lot.

    It’s a goddam changing room at a clothing store. They are individual rooms. No one is going to (OMG, clutch the pearls!) see a penis or (seriously?) get assaulted.

  32. Jeremy says

    “The dressing room area is a particularly private and vulnerable place for many women and girls, so it’s a protected area. FOR THAT REASON, WE ALSO HAVE A COMPLETELY SEPARATE DRESSING AREA for women who have undergone mastectomies and need post-surgical care.”

    The owner of the business admits that it has a completely separate area for special circumstances. If that is true and it is a separate area (I assume with a door), then how about including trans women in on that room? Not that I think trans women should have to go to those lengths to get CUSTOMER SERVICE, it is an attempt at solving the problem!

  33. Tyler says

    DrDonna, I think the point is that for 99.8% of the population, there is no sex/gender issue. A shelter or a dressing room attendant can tell male from female simply by looking. It is simple and effective and it protects women. The fact that we have a tiny fraction of a percent of people who alter their appearance because they feel like the opposite sex may create a problem, but it isn’t our problem. It’s your problem.

    Trans activists are trying to change the law so that visual appearance is no longer a valid way to determine who is a man and who is a woman. Instead we have to accept the unproven claims of individuals. Inevitably, this has led to multiple rapes. Trans activists are responsible for those rapes and those which will follow.

  34. Jeremy says

    And let’s just call a spade a spade here. If Kylie were “passing”, as completely offensive as that word is to me and the trans community, this would not be an issue. The incident would have never happened.

    Unfortunately, it did happen though and the bigotry didn’t start when she was denied access to a fitting, it started when the fitting gal passed judgment on Kylie.

  35. Thedrdonna says

    Actually, Tyler, I think you’ll find that the rapists are responsible for the rapes they commit. By your logic, you, as a gay man, are responsible for the murders committed by Jeffrey Dahmer.

  36. Anirban (aka Abner) Bhattacharya says

    There is something wrong with a man thinking he is a woman or a woman thinking she is a man. It is mutilation with dangerous hormones. Most transexuals were sexually abused in childhood which messed up their minds and transexuals sexually abuse children. Transexuals are mutilated gays and lesbians. I don’t care what others say but mutilating a man or woman to make them fake members of opposite sex is gay/lesbian. And gay/lesbian groups are apologists for Transexuals which is why the word T is there. They must abolish this surgical mutilation.

  37. John says

    Full disclosure… I’m still angry at all the anti-gay attacks by the lunatic fringe of the transsexual community. I’m trying hard not to think it’s a transsexual thing.

    Little Kiwi said…Gender is not about genitalia –

    here’s an example: let’s say you’re in an accident and in said accident your penis is severed. You now no longer have a penis. Does this make you a woman? No.

    I agree. Said penisless man should not be allowed in the ladies changing room.

    How about this hypothetical… Lets say you’re a dude who thinks he thinks and feels like a woman (how would you possibly know) and some surgeons cut of your penis and do some stuff to give you breasts and other stuff to make it look as if you have a vagina. Does this make you a woman? No. You’ll still be a man. You’ll always be a man.

  38. Anon says

    @ [ANIRBAN] & [JOHN | JUL 4, 2014 8:55:18 PM]

    That was the dumbest s*** – I can’t even…

    You clearly have access to the internet. Do yourselves and the world you live in a favor and learn learn learn about sex and gender.

  39. Anirban (aka Abner) Bhattacharya says

    If any of you know me, you know that I have commented on other sites using my name Anirban (aka Abner) Bhattacharya and am copying/pasting what I have written there here. If you don’t know who I am here’s a copy/paste of what I have written on other sites and my views.

    Homosexual/lesbian conduct is bad for health as smoking is and needs to be marginalized like smoking is. If homosexual/lesbian conduct and tobacco use were to disappear eventually, then it’s fine with me and I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

    Mutilating people to make them fake opposite sex members is a sad science waste. sex change maimings which is mutilating some1 to make them fake members of opposite sex is comparable to trying to make a man a fake animal because he thinks he is an animal trapped in a human body. Most feminists are not speaking against this. 1 would hope that feminists would oppose the mutilation that happened to Chastity Sun Bono as feminists have spoken against Female Genital Mutilation which happens in some nations. Transexuals are mutilations which no Dr. should take part in, yet most feminists are not condemning this female genital and breast mutilation as what happened to Chastity S. Bono where her healthy breasts were mutilated, dangerous hormone shots and her genitals mutilated.Transexuals are mutilated gays and lesbians. I don’t care what others say but mutilating a man or woman to make them fake members of opposite sex is gay/lesbian. They must make it a crime to do sex changes.

    I also support abolishing vasectomies, tubal ligations and breast implants, I support birth control such as condoms, pills but am against sterilization surgeries. I oppose breast implants because they are fake (excludes reconstruct surgeries for women who have had breast disease). If a woman has naturally nice big boobs as singer Katy E. Perry has (she is listed as DD but there are women with bigger boobs than her), then that is good. There is nothing wrong with a woman having small boobs. Most men want a woman with natural boobs-small, medium or big vs. a woman with fake boobs.

    I would limit Viagra in most cases because those are performance enhancers. If a man is let’s say 25 years old and in a wheelchair, then I support him using Viagra to have sex with his wife or girlfriend and have kids with her because there’s a use to it. But I am against Viagra or any other sexual enhancement drug for old men because that’s like giving steroids to a nfl player after he has passed his prime. I would also be against giving Viagra and sexual enhancement drugs to homosexuals. So yes, I would limit Viagra or other sexual enhancement drug to straight men who are under 40 years old with a handicap to that they can father children. So I would limit Viagra or other sexual enhancement drug to straight men who are under 40 years old with a handicap to that they can father children which below a certain age it’s medicine, but after a certain age it’s performance enhancers comparable to Steroids as Viagra, Zestra are.

    I support fertility treatments and I support In Vitro Fertilization. There are couples who have problems having children and In Vitro Fertilization must be available for them and they must make this affordable.

    While I’m neutral on abortion, I’m against sterilizations. There’s birth control such as the pill, condoms & old fashioned Rhythm Method. Sterilization surgeries however are mutilations. Unless it’s a hysterectomy to save a life, they must abolish this. Also they make less attractive. All things =, if you have an intact woman vs. a woman who has been spayed, most men would take the intact woman. Same thing with a man who is intact vs. a man who has had a vasectomy, most women would choose the intact man.

  40. says

    Trans panic and transphobia, just like gay panic and homophobia, make some people really dumb. Sex and gender are two different things. Gender does not depend on genitalia. How people choose to modify (or not) their bodies to fit their gender identity is their own business, not yours. (Just as who we choose to love is our business, not the homophobe’s.) Not so hard to understand.

    As for the fitting room incident, most stores do not have fitting rooms where customers are exposing their genitalia to one another. And bra fittings are unlikely to involve anything below the waist. A lot of unnecessary hand wringing, the same kind that homophobes have about gays ogling and pouncing on straight men in the lockerrooms. Panic based on ignorance.

    To the store’s credit, they’re trying to get it, their thinking less primitive than some on this thread.

  41. John says

    Ernie said…Sex and gender are two different things.

    – that seems to depends on who you ask. However i’m happy to go with your definitions. Tell me then what your definition is (not what it isn’t) and we’ll go from there. :) – honestly – i’m up for learning.

  42. Anthony says

    Im with John. If 99% of folks consider sex and gender the same thing, folks who want us to see it the way they do have some work to do -and either own a responsibility to teach others or lose the expectation to be able to complain about it.

  43. Tyler says

    Tranny TheDrDonna wrote:

    “Actually, Tyler, I think you’ll find that the rapists are responsible for the rapes they commit. By your logic, you, as a gay man, are responsible for the murders committed by Jeffrey Dahmer.”

    Wrong again, sir/madam. Yes, rapists are responsible for their actions and they go to prison for it. But that does not mean that others are not responsible. Landlords, businesses, and property owners are sued all the time for creating dangerous conditions which facilitate crimes by others. Trans activists are playing that role here, forcing upon shelters and businesses rules which make it easier for a rapist to access women’s spaces.

    No one is arguing that all transfolk are responsible if 1 trans person commits a rape (which is your Jeffrey Dahmer analogy). The claim here is not even that any transfolk have raped or will rape, but that trans activists have imposed rules which facilitate rape. If you want a Dahmer analogy, trans activists are analogous to the police who turned a blind eye to Dahmer’s victims and went on their merry way.

  44. says

    @John: Sex/Biological; Gender/Constructed. You’re welcome. (If you need more information, The Internet exists, as do real live trans people.)

    @Anthony: Trans people, like gay people, are doing the education work to secure their human rights. Like us, they don’t lose their free speech rights if some people don’t agree or get it. If that were the case, we’d have been silenced by homophobes long ago.

  45. Sean Maloney says

    Wait, doesn’t Petticoat Fair have single-person fitting rooms? Aren’t they like dressing rooms? This shouldn’t be like Filene’s Basement.

  46. says

    @Fake Tyler: By your analogy all men should be excluded from bathrooms with boys because some men are secretly pedophiles. Or, really, all men should be excluded from all spaces, public and private, because allowing them to mix with anyone facilitates rape.

  47. Trust And Believe says

    Discrimination is discrimination. If they can discriminate against the trans folks they can discriminate against YOU. #trustandbelieve

  48. The thoughtful one says

    Ok. I get why someone may be offended by this. I also get that someone is asking a private business, whom is allowed to conduct their business any way they choose, to acquiesce to their personal preference. Biologically, you are not a woman. It’s the same to me as dwarf going into a men’s big and tall store and getting mad that they have nothing in his size. Business’ are allowed to protect their interest however they choose. Why should you be allowed to possibly interrupt the majority of their business? You are entitled to respect, absolutely! However, your are required to give the same.

  49. Tyler says

    Ernie,

    The bottom line is that we have a system right now in which men and women use separate facilities. It works for over 99% of the population, and it protects women. If trans activists force that system to be altered in order to make them feel better about themselves, and if that change results in an increase in rapes or assaults, then they bear responsibility.

    Now to your analogy –

    If, as a matter of public policy, we determined that adults and children should use separate facilities (which is actually the case with certain locker rooms and changing areas, as well as bathrooms in schools), and if that policy successfully protected kids, and if a group of adult activists came along and said that the system needed to be altered because they felt like “kids at heart” and should be allowed to access the kids areas, and if molestations increased as a result – then, yes, absolutely those activists would be responsible.

  50. Tyler says

    To Ernie and John:

    About trannies “educating” the public about their sorry condition: Ernie suggests that things are progressing for the trannies the same way that things progressed for LGBs. But that is not true, at least with respect to the public. With LGBs, homophobia decreases and support for LGB rights increases as people get to know LGBs. They see with their own eyes that LGBs are not miserable or perverted or dangerous and the hostility decreases.

    With trannies, it is just the opposite. People interact with trannies, and trans activists in particular, and they see with their own eyes the pathology of transgender – the violence, the suicidal tendencies, the misogyny, the mental instability, as well as disturbing compulsions like the castration compulsion of the “neutrois.” The result: feelings of pity and hostility increase; support for trans rights does not increase.

  51. says

    @Fake Tyler: Well, I think it remains to be seen where trans rights go from here, but certainly there have been many recent signs of progress for trans people and trans rights. And a majority of young people have no issue with the T in LGBT–in fact, they wouldn’t have it any other way.

    Clearly, you’d like the public to share your hostility, but–like many seething homophobes: Bryan Fischer, Pat Robertson, Linda Harvey, other right-wing loons–what comes across in your comments is a weird, irrational obsession with an issue that doesn’t really impact your life. When you scream about other people being pathological–like the nutty homophobes do with us–you risk coming across as the mentally unstable one. Though, at least the noted homophobes dare to use their actual names.

  52. says

    Wish we were still in Toronto, LK: I’d hold you to that. :-) But we did cheer you on from the parade sidelines. (Which is, imagine, actually possible when people aren’t afraid to use their real identities online.)

  53. Tam says

    @Ernie

    “And a majority of young people have no issue with the T in LGBT–in fact, they wouldn’t have it any other way.”

    I’m 19 and I have an issue with it. None of my friends calls himself lgbt. We’re gay. Isn’t that good enough? I don’t know where you get your info!

  54. says

    I call your bluff, “TAM” – prove it. show yourself. (hehe, you won’t. it’s ok, wimp)

    I’m gay – I support LGBT. why? because i stand strong with my brothers and sisters who are trans. you don’t. because you and your friends are piece of s**t 😀

  55. Tam says

    lol! u mad bro? supporting trans ppl and calling urself lgbt are 2 different things. i support all my str8 friends and fam, but that dont make me lgbstr8 or whatever. we are gay not trans so no lgbt.

  56. Anon says

    @”JOHN”
    ” If you know the answers then why not just post them?”

    I never said or insinuated that I know ALL the answers, but I know a HELL of a lot more than you.

    Why do you feel so entitled to MY time and energy?! F*** Y**!

    Why should I spoon-feed information to a troll who’s mind is closed anyway? I’m not giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re really looking to be educated or looking for a dialogue.

    You’re just a troll spreading your anti-LGBT propaganda; your hate and fear mongering.

    The information is all out there; it’s free and a click away. How DARE you bait gay strangers in a comments section into some troll-game. Can’t you think of something else that’ll tickle your between-me-down-there?! Pathetic online sadist.

  57. Fenrox says

    The imposters line shows that they are not down with the trans community.

    Speaking of horrible people and things, look at almost all of you.

  58. Thedrdonna says

    Tam, I’m trans and gay and I don’t describe myself as LGBT either, because I respect the English language. I am part of the LGBT community, though, as are all the other gay and trans folks I know.

  59. UNFAIR TO WHO says

    @WIZARD

    So basically you’re saying to hell with the female staff right? Never mind there rights. So if there has been no fires in your city should we take away the fire department? It’s about denying someone their rights in order to accommodate someone else and it’s just WRONG!!!

  60. Anon says

    @”UNFAIR TO WHO” “JUL 5, 2014 7:03:00 PM”
    STRAW MAN – “So basically you’re saying…”

    FALSE EQUIVALENCY – “So if there has been no fires…”

    FALSE DILEMMA – “It’s about denying someone their rights in order to…”

    This goes for you as well: I’m not giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re really looking to be educated or looking for a dialogue.

    You’re just a troll spreading your anti-LGBT propaganda; your hate and fear mongering.

    How DARE you bait gay strangers in a comments section into some troll-game. Can’t you think of something else that’ll tickle your between-me-down-there?! Pathetic online sadist.

  61. Tam says

    MEH – yes i am totes cool with l and b because lgb are all attracted to same sex. we are all the same in that way. not true for ts. not true to tell lgb youth that they have gender identity problem.

    btw, my GPA is 3.8. prolly better than yours! :-O

  62. TheDrDonna says

    @Tam: It’s simplistic in the extreme to claim that the idea of an LGBT Community tells LGB people that they have gender identity issues. By that logic, the idea of an LGB community tells gay women that they’re actually men, and tells bisexuals that they are actually solely gay.

    Also, you might find that out in the real world, away from the hallowed halls of academia, what makes you “smart” is oftentimes a long ways away from some number in a grading system.

  63. CalinPortland says

    I think Tam makes a decent point. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to add a group of people who can have any old sexual orientation onto LGBs. And no Donna LGB isn’t like telling a bi that he is gay. L and G and B are all together because all of us have same sex attraction to one degree or another. Even Gs and Ls might be a Kinsey 4 or 5.

    Anyway, that’s LGB. One common trait. You can explain it in 3 words. Pretty easy to understand if you ask me and I only got a 2.9 GPA. More important, it is something that every LGB kid can understand. LGBT is what sends the confusing message to gay kids like “Well, kid, you are gay, and you are just as much a boy as anyone else, and you aren’t transgender, but you are linked to transgenders, even if the transgenders aren’t gay.” WTF?

  64. Anon says

    @”CALINPORTLAND”/”DANNY”/”TAM” TROLL

    What about FTMs that want to be with men, or MTFs that want to be with women?! Did you in your willful ignorance deliberately neglect to mention them?! Methinks. Besides, like the nasty troll you are you digressed from the topic at hand, and are super sloppy about the blatant sockpuppeting.

    This woman deserved to be served. She did NOT deserve to be carded. Her genitals are nobody’s business, and nobody would have EVER had to see anything as it was a BRA FITTING.

    Straight male rapists don’t disguise themselves as women in public as their MO to get into dressing rooms and rape women in public in broad daylight. (I challenge you trolls to cite a single instance of such a thing happening). You can’t. And even if you COULD cite a single instance which you can’t, that still wouldn’t be enough reason to discriminate against all trans people.

  65. Helene says

    Ack! Sorry I am late to this discussion. Good to hear from Gs and Bs on this!

    Anon, google Toronto Women’s Shelter and transgender and rape and you’ll get a recent case. 4 women, already abused and seeking protection from male violence. Sexually assaulted by a man who got into the women’s shelter because the law did not permit the shelter to turn the dude away. He falsely claimed to be a “transwoman” in order to gain access, but in the wacky world of transgender, we have to take people at their word because you can’t go by anything other than their stated feelings.

    If 4 destroyed lives – not to mention the trauma inflicted on the other residents – aren’t “enough” for you, well, then there’s nothing I can do. You live with your male privilege and keep discounting women’s lives. That makes you an honorary trans activist.

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