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1. The Christopher Street area is regularly FLOODED with young kids -- I'm talking teenagers. For years, I wondered where they all came from, imagining that they all just headed downtown from Uptown, Brooklyn, and the Bronx. I then learned that the vast majority are homeless, kicked out of their homes for being gay. Perhaps we should be concerned with a different "quality of life" issue.

   Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 24, 2006 7:01:53 PM

   
   

2. How sad that such a symbolic representation of Gay History and Gay Rights has to die in such a public embarassment. There are so many factors involved with trying to run a successful Gay establishment, and nationwide, most are feeling the pain.
   
   I worked at Stonewall last year as a Promoter. Dominick openly admitted to me that mistakes were made when making business decisions (20K per month in rent is a MAJOR factor).
   
   In an effort to turn the place around, he replaced almost all of his staff and ended specific weekly parties that were drawing the so-called 'undesirable' element. He invested thousands of dollars in renovations to both the club and the restaurant. By the way, is there any word on the fate of Gianna's?

   In my opinion, Gay Youth, no mater what ethnicity or gender, are NOT undesireable.

   The out-of-control drug issue at Stonewall was. In an effort to clean up the business (and the Village) by ending these parties, Dominick ultimately started into a downward spiral that he couldn't navigate out of.

   While she is a FABULOUS person, and I'd work with her any day, putting a Lesbian Latina in as Manager of a reknowned Gay Male establishment wasn't a great decision. She is so trustworthy, there was no way Dominick couldn't. Gina put her heart and soul into trying to turn the business around, but the men weren't responding to her. It's a pity that not enough had taken the time to get to know her. You would have loved her as much as I do. I recall the frigid winter night when Gina allowed a homeles Village woman into the club to use the bathroom and warm up for a few minutes.
   
   As far as minority co-owner 'Bob' is concerned, the frequent lament of the employees was that he was never there, created a lot of drama from home via the telephone, and only showed up when he wanted money. What effort did he put into running the place? As part-owner (rumored at 1%), he could have made ANY effort instead of looking back and making negative statements to the press.

   As far as bartender 'Tree' is concerned, he only had a VERY small following of older gentlemen that he would sneak into the club without paying a cover, gave away drinks to them for free, was openly verbal in trashing Stonewall and it's Management, and was not pleasant to work with. As a matter of fact, after only a few weeks of using him as a Bartender, we asked Dominick to relieve him of his Tuesday night responsibilities, and we brought in our own Bartenders to our Customer's delight.

   While working in clubs throughout the NY/NJ/PA area, it's become quite clear how they are all struggling to make ends meet. It costs a lot of money to run a business. Mortgage/rent, Utilities, inventory, salaries, insurance, licensing - I could go on and on. The Gay community seems to want an awful lot for that $6.00 drink.
   
   I attribute this to two specific factors:

   First and foremost, the cost of basic survival (especially in the NY area)is too high for most. The first thing that goes out the window when you're trying to make ends meet is your partying money. Maybe you go out once a week, if that.

   The second factor attests to how far we have come, believe it or not, in our fight for Gay rights and Equality!
   
   Stonewall was our starting place. 20 years ago, there was no Internet, AOL was in its infancy, and the only place to meet other Gay people was in Gay bars or at rest areas.

   Today, being Gay seems to be not such a big deal, with most Gay Youth more than happy to openly identify as "Bi-Sexual". We are not limited to going to Gay establishments to meet other Gay people.
   
   How many of you that are reading this have actually supported a Gay establishment STRONGLY? Was the last time you went out with your friends to a Gay Establishment, or to a Straight Establishment like TGI Fridays?

   So Hail to Stonewall, an old friend that will not be forgotten, that will forever stand as the starting point for our struggle for acceptance. Thank you to Dominick DeSimone for leasing the place in 19(friggin)89 and attempting all these years to help us keep our history alive. Boo to those who slander him just for the fact that he is straight.

   When Starbucks or Disney takes over the space, I urge the Gay community to consider whether or not they deserve us spending our hard-earned money there.

   Boo to the building owners for being so outwardly greedy. $100,00 down and $22,500 per month? Who can afford that but a large corporation? Just what will the new Lesee get for their $100k down? An empty building that will cost millions to renovate?
   
   Please support your local Gay Bars, Retailers and Restaurants, treat each other with acceptance, respect and dignity, and most of all, understanding.
   
   Me, well, I gave up the NY Club Scene and moved to Phoenix in February. I'm impressed with the Gay community here. They actually seem to be fiercly supporting the local Gay Establishments!

   Posted by: Uncle Buff | Aug 27, 2006 4:45:58 PM

   
   

3. Uncle Buff, thanks for a really well written note. I'm a business owner, too, in a city with a large gay community, and I have to tell you..the best line was "How many of you that are reading this have actually supported a Gay establishment STRONGLY?". Because I refuse to be a 'gay' store owner (sorry, I don't want to carry rainbow flags) but rather a store that respects the customers who shop from me, I get ignored by a lot of locals. Maybe I should put dildos in the storefront, but realistically, the overwhelmingly str8 tourist base in this town might not like the ones I pick ;-). Seriously, the rule of thumb always seems to be those 'queens' with the most money and the most attitude want everything for free. Thank god for the younger guys from LA...they think I'm cheap (and for some I am..LOL). All things must change..this town is...almost certainly in 10 years it's going to be like Key West..gay in memory only. And, really, isn't that the way it's supposed to be? The Castro is more str8's with baby strollers fighting with the homeless. WeHo is no longer filled with overdeveloped circuit boys now, but skinny boys fresh from college with a new (albeit still bitchy..hehehe..god love 'em) attitude of their own. We still want SOME places all our own..but like str8 people, as we age, as we diversify into age/class/racial etc divisions, we're going to gravitate to those like us...which means that for that 40 year old White Party guy who's now starting to wonder why he has all that A&F crap in his closet, the local club with a nice gay and str8 mix (his age) is more fun than being sneered at by 22 year olds..(just as they sneered at the leftover disco boys 20 years earlier.) It's the way of the world..sadly and wonderfully always surprising each generation. It looks like the Stonewall is going the way of the Black Cat, Finochios, and countless historic bars before. Put a marker there, raise a toast, and let life move on...cause it does.

   Posted by: psmike | Aug 27, 2006 10:31:37 PM

   
   

4. This is Bill Morgan from the Duplex. I just wanted to set the record straight regarding the Stonewall Bar. I am in no way thrilled at the prospect of losing such an incredible landmark for both the West Village and the Gay community. I have nothing but empathy for any fellow businesses especially one of Stonewall’s stature. And losing Stonewall would not enhance my business it would hurt it as Stonewall brings people to the neighborhood. The "reporter" from the observer not only paraphrased my sentiments from the 20 minute telephone interview he edited them together in a way that has very little in common with what I actually said. It’s as if he had a bias in mind for the article and decided to tailor or fabricate statements to bolster his case. When he asked why I thought the Stonewall was failing I stated that I felt the owners had forsaken the history of the place and the hardcore regular clientele by bringing in the 18-20 year olds for the “detention parties” and the like. I did say that the crowds can be disruptive late at night as once they leave the Stonewall they have no other bar to go to because they are underage. So they hang out and make noise. That’s the nature of 18 year olds. I never said that the kids were “the wrong element” and I never said anything even remotely close to being happy at the prospect of losing such a historical establishment. The article this person wrote is not only misrepresentative of me but of the attitude of the community toward Stonewall. I hope Stonewall survives and prospers for years to come. As far as the Duplex is concerned - We are very proud of the diversity of our patrons and the diversity of our staff as well.

   As you may imagine I am sickened by the bigoted quotes that were attributed to me. I have written the reporter from the Observer, pointed out the inaccuracy of his article and requested that he set the record straight on his end. I am grateful that I have this opportunity to speak for myself.

   Posted by: Bill Morgan | Aug 30, 2006 8:57:41 AM

   
   

5. I'm glad Bill Morgan got to set the record straight on him being misquoted.

   But the fact remains that something has changed in that part of town. I've lived in NYC since 1988 and seen gay bars & clubs come & go, and seen neighborhoods shift & change...

   In the past few years, there is definitely a changed element on Christopher Street -- a certain type of clientile is being attracted & hangs out on those few blocks where I no longer feel safe on those streets. NOT because of prejudice or racism, but because of very specific instances of threats that myself & my friends have experienced there.

   It used to be Christopher Street was somewhat quiet & depressing, a ghost town presumably due to AIDS ravaging that part of town. Then things picked up, and the area became quite charming. But now, the streets are filled with hoodlums & troublemakers. They may be gay -- but many of them threaten and harrass passerbys. This is NOT lighthearted catty fun by voguing Houses with nowhere else to go -- this is straight up uneducated hoodlums looking to cause trouble.

   I HATE THAT PART OF TOWN NOW. IT IS NOT AT ALL SAFE - not matter what the color of your skin.

   Posted by: HONESTY | Aug 30, 2006 3:02:28 PM

   
   

6. Honesty:

   Honestly, why don't you call a cop if some one is threatening your safety? Are you as afraid to identify a malevolent homophobe as you would a gesticular, loud and over the top person of color?

   Moreover, the very tone of your post suggests, rather than overt racial prejudice, but an ethnocentrism born within the perspective of race and class. To expect people of color to just stand on a corner and "vogue" for you is absurd. Who cares if someone is obviously low class or refined? Does noblesse oblige require a prince to behave toward the peasant horribly and towards his equal differently? They may have in reality and reputations duly suffered for it because it not written into the code of conduct. Isn’t this class defined, the undifferentiated treatment of all people regardless of rank, race, class, social position, etc.?

   We are not sideshows at a theme park you patronize; rather, we are people living in the dynamism of historical, cultural and social change, like you. For example, in 2006 when I walked down the street in Chelsea and a couple of white men yelled at me, "You go girl!" Can you imagine that dehumanization implied? How was I supposed to respond to that? The television show from which it came (Martin) is off the air or in syndication and “Paris is Burning” is even older (to which Honesty refers). Whatever happened to “hello?” and “how’s your day?” What happened to humanity within a group seeking ‘human rights’?

   To think black people live in a fixed cultural reality and for those men not to understand the phrase came from a television show is as deeply insulting and as bad as a white southerner calling me by a diminutive of my first name. Such foolishness in this day and age is rooted in the inability of some whites to see people of color as equals in mind, body and spirit. It’s a declared reminder: you are “underdeveloped child” in a separate and unequal universe.

   No, Honesty, you didn’t say these things, but I’ll unpack what I think you’ve implied through my perspective and present it back to you in the hope that you can recognize your incivility and learn to improve it.

   Safe to say after the “You go girl” crap, I knew the dignified women of my family would have been aghast and the men appalled. Where’s the respect for me as an intelligent, aware human being? Why do I feel like I’m not expected to be received as a “mister” and an equal? That's offensive to me and thus, I didn’t dignify that misbehavior with a glance and carried on.

   May be you should do the same thing, ignore it and call the cops when other’s actions threaten your safety. Is not that what concerned citizens do? It’s what I’ve been bred to do. Some of the assumptions in the article and in the postings are baseborn, but the fact that a lot of clubs hosting people of color are closed barely gets noticed in the responses.

   All people expect is to be treated fairly, as human beings, and not racial/cultural icons in museums. As a black gay man, who attended a little three liberal arts college and an ivy league graduate school, I am appalled by the decidedly cruel calculus of thought expressed by, presumably, insensitive white men who seem to be entitled to the whole of gay culture and life.

   There’s a civil rights movement that included gays, Coretta Scott King, acknowledged this many times. During the March on Washington, she stood with a dignified Bayard Ruston, a black gay man, who organized the very legacy gays (especially the white dominated and organized political establishment) claim heir presumptive.

   But, why would the very members constituting the group treat the gay people of color as if they have no place in the overarching civil rights movement? Why did Mrs. King, before her death, extend her hand to a community that acts like the same community that rejected her nigh seven decades ago? Maybe is has something to do with grace, and forgiveness, and civility the very elements absent in all of these conversations?

   In the 1950’s some of these very same men who today look as if they’d drown under a raindrop wouldn’t have had the courage to leap out of the closet, claim their dignity, if Ruston hadn’t represented it publicly in the face of J. Edgar Hoover, much less their own mothers. Sure, there were small societies, matchsticks, really. The civil rights movement provided the fuel, like gasoline, to enable the larger conflagration to devour the ancient paradigm. This is missed in this age of foolery.

   I wonder if Mr. Ruston expected such cultural and racial chauvinisms to poison the gay rights movement he represented alongside all people all color during that larger movement.

   Well, nevertheless, there are those benighted, unable to see the glory of that movement or its foundation, who only think of themselves. Funny, some gay white men still don’t even realize their light was produced at the genesis of dark encumbrances yoked upon black people as they take for granted these weighty contributions. No wonder such Honesty meets derisions, hostility, and absolute rebuke!
   

   Posted by: Apollo Swift | Jan 4, 2007 2:35:35 AM

   
   
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