News: Matthew McConaughey, Circumcision, Alabama Sex Sting

road.jpg 2006 is Britain’s warmest year since records began: “All of the 10 warmest years in Britain have occurred in the past 18 years, except the fourth hottest, when in 1949 the year’s mean temperature reached 10.62C.”

Mcconaugheyroad.jpg Matthew McConaughey appears in public wearing shirt.

road.jpg Circumcision cuts risk of infection by HIV in half: “Previous research has suggested that circumcision is beneficial, but the new trial is ‘definitive,’ according to Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, which cosponsored the study with the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. ‘It’s not a magic bullet,’ said Dr. Kevin De Cock, director of the World Health Organization’s department of HIV/AIDS, but it has the potential to prevent ‘many hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions of infections over coming years.'”

road.jpg David Geffen offers $2 billion for the L.A. Times. Paper continues to seek offers

road.jpg Acquitted Huntsville, Alabama man speaks out about sex sting in public park: “For months I lived a nightmare that I hoped to wake up from, but I didn’t wake up from it. I did not and have not ever gone there for the purpose for sexual contact,” he said. “My family and those people who know me know that I could not do and did not do those things I was charged with. People are going to believe what they want to believe. There is no anger in my heart for anyone. There is forgiveness in my heart, okay. I think he was wrong. I know he was wrong. And a jury of 12 people decided he was wrong.”

Mitchell_3road.jpg Spoof video superintendent Richard Mitchell, who this fall in an extraordinary lapse of judgment posted a remixed video of rookie teacher interviews on a school district website, has filed a sexual orientation discrimination complaint with Chicago’s Cook County, claiming he wasn’t fired because of the video, but because a school board member encouraged others to conspire against him because he’s gay.

road.jpg STUDY: Gay marriage would mean an additional $100 million in yearly revenue for businesses in New Jersey.

road.jpg Read My Mind: Pet Shop Boy fan Brandon Flowers sends next single to the duo for remix.

road.jpg A Ford Mustang…station wagon?

Comments

  1. peterparker says

    Matthew McConnaughey is the sexiest man on the face of the earth. Except of course for Matt Damon when he’s doing an impression of McConnaughey.

  2. Marco says

    That is the hottest picture of matthew ever taken in the history of hot pictures of Mathew. He should send that photographer a bottle of champagne and a dozen roses – then come over to my place and….

  3. borut says

    I’ve never understood this thing with undercover officers trying to seduce guys at cruising spots, just to arrest them when they make a move. I don’t think we have this kind of thing anywhere in Continental Europe.
    Do they send attractive female officers to places where lots of straight guys hang out as well?

  4. Jeff says

    Thanks just the same, but I am quite attached to my foreskin. Buy condoms – which should be worn in any case.

  5. Rob says

    Just want to point out that the study only looked at heterosexual transmission of HIV. Circumcision probably won’t have an impact on HIV incidence in the U.S. or Europe.

  6. EireKev says

    “Circumcision probably won’t have an impact on HIV incidence in the U.S. or Europe.” Because in the Western World only gays have HIV?

  7. HUGO says

    1. Matthew is sex on legs. I’ve had the pleasure of seeing him in personal several times and he is a STUD. I would do very bad dirty things to that man.

    2. Uncut cocks are twice as hot.

    3. I hope David Geffen is able to buy the LA Times. That paper needs a jolt. No one in LA reads it, they all read the NY Times.

  8. Matt says

    Stories like this just send out signals to the less educated that if you’re circumcised it’s ok to have unsafe sex…and yes, some people are that stupid.

    A more detailed report I read goes on to say this is actually more beneficial in heterosexual sex and that circumcision does not eliminate the risk of contracting HIV, the same report made little mention of homosexuals. Since I have no intention of diving into a vagina unprotected or otherwise, I’ll just keep having gay sex with a condom on, works just fine for me.

    Bottom line is weather you’re cut or uncut if you’re practicing unsafe sex you’re playing Russian roulette with your life, the only real prevention is either abstinence or condoms armed with a big dose of knowledge and common sense. I think that message needs to be enforced more than some procedure which in the long run only really benefits the medical profession..once again.

  9. Zeke says

    I find it troubling that these studies never include a discussion of the human rights factor of circumcising males without their consent.

    And for the record, I could prove that a rooster crowing causes the sun to come up if that was the result I set out to achieve.

  10. Lano says

    I wonder if everyone would be rushing to chop off womens’ labias if they found that this other form of genital mutilation also cut the infection rate…

  11. Rob says

    Eirekev, what I wrote was quoted from one of the study’s authors in a WebMD article. In the Western world HIV incidence is primarily spread through homosexual sex, and circumcision likely will not have an impact.

  12. peterparker says

    Anon…no, he’s rich and wants the power associated with owning a newspaper. I for one hope he succeeds in his bid for ownership.

  13. jimmyboyo says

    The circumcision study is totally FLAWED!!!!due to 3 variables they do not account for.

    1- Tribal practice of polygamous marriage = tribal culture does not circumcise. Circumcised african males more than likely western influenced christian/ catholic non -polygamous marriage practitioners which lowers aids risk…NOT the actual circumcision or not being circumcised

    2- Tribal practice of marrying dead brothers wife (see also polygamy) which if husband died of AIDS then wife most likely has AIDS and will pass on to now married to brother who would be uncircumcised.

    3- Tribal cultural practice of believing having sex with a clean virgin will cure diseases which only spreads AIDS the more…..Circumcised african males are more likely to have been educated in western influenced schools and thus not holding to such backwards and dangerous thinking.

    3-HUGE variables blow the whole study out of the water. It is not the circumcision that is slowing down the spread of AIDS in africa it is the tribal culture that is speeding up the spread of HIV in africa.

    DO not believe this crap study

  14. jimmyboyo says

    PS

    Circumcising tribal practitioners yet not educating them about certain cultural practices that spread AIDS will still spread AIDS quickly.

    EDUCATION is what will slow down the spread of AIDS in Africa.

    It is also not helpful that the catholic missionaries dealing with these tribal cultures tell them that condoms will send them to hell.

    I am flabbergasted that this TOTAL CRAP study ever passed peer review.

  15. Zeke says

    RO, I appreciate your feelings but I suspect that your preference is more a result of growing up in a country and culture where “cut” is heavily promoted as natural, normal and preferable whereas “uncut” is degraded as unnatural, abnormal, unattractive, unclean and disgusting.

    By the way, studies have shown that circumcised females in cultures where such butchery is common, are happy with their mutilated state and would definitely do the same to their daughters.

    An excellent anthropological, rather than philosophical or xenophobic, study of ritual genital cutting (male and female) can be found at:

    http://www.drabruzzi.com/circumcision.htm

    I would encourage everyone to check it out.

    Warning: It contains some disturbing pictures.

    I am not against circumcision, I simply believe that every MAN should be able to make the choice to be circumcised or not.

    I believe in “My body, my choice” but I think it should apply to males every bit as much as it does to females.

  16. LightningLad says

    Circumcision is not nearly in the same class as female genital mutilation. Female gential mutilation, as currently practiced in some African cultures is done with the intent of controlling female sexuality for the purposes of maintaining women’s “virginal purity” for men. In other words, it’s part of a system of patriarchal domination in which women are seen as sexual objects for men.

    It also damages the functioning of the female anatomy and is typically practiced under unsanitary conditions that lead to bleeding and infection.

    Circumcision, if performed under sanitary conditions, does not mutilate or damage the penis. You may aesthetically view a circumcised penis as “damaged” but in terms of functioning it is not damaged.

    The vast majority of circumcisions are safe. Only a small proportion are botched or lead to infection or other problems.

    As for the study itself, the authors state this is not a “cure-all.” Nobody is saying that African men who get circumcised don’t have to use condoms or reduce partners. But the study found that circumcision reduced the likelihood of transmission by half. Given that people are dying in African of AIDS in record numbers, if you can promote a practice that could lead to a 50% reduction in HIV transmission, you would a fool to not do it.

    For what it’s worth, an increasing number of adult African men are volunteering for circumcision. What do they know that you don’t know?

  17. Zeke says

    Lightninglad, read the study at the link I provided earlier. Much of what you just said, as much as we’ve heard it over and over, is simply not true.

  18. noah says

    Mitchell is going to have a tough case to prove. It’s easy to understand how he might be fired for making public video that made fun of job interviewers. That was not only stupid but unethical.

  19. Zeke says

    And for clarification, when I used the word “MAN” above it was intended to mean, as opposed to “child” or “infant” rather than as opposed to “woman”.

  20. jimmyboyo says

    lightinglad

    This study does NOT prove that it is the actual circumcission causing the slow down…..common sense and studying the societies involevd does PROVE that education can, does, and will slow down the spread of aids in africa. All the money that will be wasted on torturing little baby boys without local anesthetic (no hospital in america uses local anesthetic which is barberic and tortures the baby boy) instead of using that same money on EDUCATION!!!!! It is the culture!!!! of uncircumcissed africans that is the cause…and the cultural difference to circumcissed african males which is slowing it down..NOT the actual circumcission

    You also said

    You may aesthetically view a circumcised penis as “damaged” but in terms of functioning it is not damaged.

    You are 100% wrong. It has already been proven that YES a circumcissed penis is functioning damaged in that it is LESS sensitive thus the male with a circumcissed penis suffers from less sensation during orgasm. I as an unwillingly circumcissed american male who was totured against my will without the use of local anesthetic am right royaly mad that I was circumcissed. that a babraic religous torture from the days when jews traveled the desert herding sheep was perfomre don me. Science!!! has proven that circumcission provides nothing of value (smegma build up would happen if anyway because a non properly bathing male wouldn’t wash their circumcissed penis any more than a circumcissed one) and does make the penis head less sensitive and thus all circumcissed males are loosing out on even better orgasms.

  21. jimmyboyo says

    HERE is more detail on FUNCTIONAL DAMAGE caused by every circumcission 9all circumcissed males should be right royaly pissed at their parents , the doctors, and the barbaric religous practice that started it all)
    ——————————————–
    Loss of the foreskin nerves themselves. As has been demonstrated by studies such as the one by Dr. Taylor and by the testimonials of the majority of intact men, the inner foreskin possesses a greater density of nerve endings. It is thought to be more erogenous than even the glans. The is no question that the foreskin is a highly erogenous tissue. This tremendous amount of sensitivity is lost completely when the forefold of the skin system is amputated. In addition to this, the most sensitive part of the penis, the frenulum of the foreskin, is either partially or totally removed in most infant circumcisions. The frenulum is the continuation of the inner foreskin which attaches to the underside (ventral part) of the glans. Thus, a significant percentage, if not the majority, of erogenous nerve supply to the penis is removed in circumcision at birth.

    Damage to the glans. The erogenous sensitivity that remains after circumcision is primarily in the glans. This is further reduced by removal of the protective foreskin which leaves the glans permanently exposed. Unlike the shaft of the penis, and most of the rest of the body, the head of the penis, does not posses its own attached skin. This structure, like the eye ball and the gums of the mouth, is a somewhat naked structure. Its surface is non-keratinized, like that of the gums, the eye ball, and the clitoris in women. That means that it does not posses a protective thick layer like the keratinized skin of the outer penile skin system. Like the gums and the eye ball, the glans of the intact penis has a retractible skin covering. The skin covering of the glans is the foreskin. The eyelid is very similar in architecture to the foreskin. If the eyelid were removed and the eyeball were to become keratinized, you’d have a much harder time seeing. The same is true of the glans. It becomes artificially keratinized (dry, ha rdened, discolored, and wrinkled) as a result of permanent exposure, and thus less sensitive. Because most American men are circumcised and have a glans of this nature, it is harder to notice the abnormality. But just compare the glans of an intact man with that of a circumcised man next to each other and you’ll notice a big difference. Thus, in addition to removing lots of erogenous nerve endings in the inner foreskin and frenulum, circumcision further desensitizes the remaining sensitivity of the glans by leaving it exposed.

    Loss of skin mobility. The nerve endings in the glans are predominantly complex touch receptors also known as mechanoreceptors. This is different from the light touch receptors of the skin which detect surface friction. The mechanorecptors are best stimulated by massage action rather than surface friction. Thus, the glans is best stimulated to feel pleasure by a rolling massage action. With an ample and highly mobile skin system that rolls over the glans with pressure from the opposing surface, this optimal stimulation of the glans is achieved while avoiding direct friction of the delicate glans surface. Direct friction tends to fire off pain receptors causing irritation and also causes further keratinization of the glans. With the skin system of the penis significantly reduced by circumcision, the mobility is essentially gone and now the penis is a static mass with no dynamic self stimulation mechanism. Now, it must be rubbed. Direct friction is now the primary form of stimulation. So then circumcision further reduces erogenous sensitivity in the penis by reducing skin mobility and thus the ability to use the foreskin to massage the glans. The combination of foreskin and glans in concert results in an even higher level of stimulation which is unknown to the circumcised male.

  22. Rob says

    Jimmyboyd, you assume the men were circumcised before the study occurred. This is not the case. The researchers pooled thousands of uncircumcised men and gave half of them circumcisions. So there probably were not big cultural/tribal differences between the two groups of men.

  23. jimmyboyo says

    Rob they did not circumcise men and then perform the study. They studied already preaviously circumcissed and uncircumcissed males.

  24. RB says

    So, had I had NOT been circumcised, the penis would have been MORE sensitive?! WOW…interesting. Sex is pretty good now!

  25. Damon says

    I’ll put it like this.

    My parents have worked their asses off giving the world to me and forever I am indepted to them. Most likely they choose to circumsize me because of hygienic reasons and/or because my father is circumsized. Do I wonder every now and then what it’d be like to have a foreskin, yeah. But am I missing it? Nope. My life doesn’t revolve around my dick like so many men’s does.

    I’m 100% fine with my cut penis and I don’t mind that my parents had me cut at birth. And really, if I wanted to have my own son, cut, I’d have it done. I doubt I will have him cut because it isn’t a big deal to me. Maybe something will come up to make have him cut. Maybe circumcision really does reduce the possibility of HIV/AIDS although personally I believe that the great protector against HIV/AIDS, STDs, and a heap of emotional problems is having strong and “conservative” sex morals and not sleeping with people who have loose sexual morals in contrast with being a whore with condoms and still being at risk of numerous diseases.

    If you think my parents have wronged me, go fuck yourself. They felt they have done me a life-long favor and maybe they have. I like my penis just the way it is.

    If you have a problem with your own dick, take it up with your parents or god but don’t tell me or my parents what to do with my or my son’s cock. If you think my dick is ugly, or mutilated or that my parents, who have done more than enough for me, has wronged me; do go fuck yourself and go to hell.

  26. jimmyboyo says

    Damon that is your post circumcission choice…to accept what you as a baby could not prevent and at this point in time can not change.

    It is a barbaric practice, scientificaly has NO value what so ever, and does cause functional damage as far as sensitivity and thus better orgasms are concerned.

    The ones to blame in america for it though are not parents who out of ignorance went along with doctors’ opinions, nor doctors who were influenced by long dead old white proestant preachers.

    circumcission in america can be traced back to the crazy protestant belief that protestant christians are the new israelis…america was the new jerusalem and they thought that being under the so-called new covenant meant that american males should be circumcissed…it spread and influenced the medical field and a foolish, unscientific, barbaric, religon based torturous medical practice became the norm in america.

    The most barberic aspect of it is that NO local anesthetic is ever given to the poor baby boys while it is being done….I might wish that I still had my foreskin, and think the practice should never be done….BUT at least put a local anesthetic on the poor baby boy’s penises before going at it with a scalpel.

  27. Zeke says

    Damon, with all due respect, it’s wonderful that you are happy with your penis however I don’t think that is the issue here. Had you not been circumcised you would most likely have been happy with it that way as well and if you weren’t you would be able to make that decision for yourself as an adult. The point that Jimmyboyo is making, perhaps too enthusiastically, is that people should be able to make such serious decisions that will result in the radical and permanent alteration of their genitalia themselves.

    The fact of the matter is your parents are much more likely to have decided to circumcise you for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with hygiene. Most people in America do it because they think it’s what their supposed to do because every male they know had it done. If you’re OK with that, fine but it’s not crazy that many people find the universal, involuntary and unnecessary amputation of a healthy part of an infant’s penis barbaric and unacceptable even when a parent makes the decision for his child. I’ve never met a person who felt this way who had any issue with an adult male making the decision for himself to be circumcised.

    Jimmyboyo may be going overboard with his passionate statement but I find your position that no one should question parents for making that permanent decision for their sons is equally inappropriate.

    I find it interesting that we have so indoctrinated people in this country that people consider those who challenge universal, involuntary circumcision as quacks but think people who support this procedure, that is not done routinely in ANY other modern western country in the world, as rational.

    Yet another example of American xenocentrism and arrogance.

  28. Zeke says

    Yes I know the difference between “their” and “they’re”. I sometimes type faster than I think.

  29. Rob says

    Jimmybod, no. From webMD:

    “None of the study participants had been circumcised before the studies started.

    The Ugandan men were 15 to 49 years old; the Kenyan men 18 to 24. They were randomly assigned to get circumcision (surgical removal of the foreskin) right away or after a two-year delay. “

  30. Lano says

    I’m just saying, you hack your little son’s foreskin off, you should hack your little girl’s off too. They are anotomically the same before sex is determined. Besides, nature put it there for a reason, don’t you think? Wouldn’t natural selection have weeded out all those with more foreskin and whittled it away over time. Over time I have a feeling that the more scientific research that is done on circumcision, the more we will learn about just how damaging and bad it can be. What they should really be doing a study on is to see if men who have more foreskin are more likely to contract HIV than men who don’t have much.

  31. jimmyboyo says

    zeke

    :-)

    If I in anyway have offended anybody with my zeal, I am sorry. That was in no way my intention.

    My first and foremost reason for posting on this subject at all was the complete and utter un scientific basis of this particular study since I as a layman can find 3 glaring varriables they did not account for.

    The subject went off into circumcissed vs uncircumcissed asthetics and function. If my posts in any way caused someone to question the choice their parents made for them….GOOD = always quaestion authority. if it has offended anyone, then I do appologize.

    my uncircumcised penis is beautiful, I have been told many times. I find circumcissed penises beautiful and it does not make one less of a man (just less mind blowingness of orgasms)….I personaly wish I still had my foreskin and now prefer men with foreskin.

    As I did mention…no matter what one’s stand on the issue is….the american practice of NOT using local anesthetic is horrendous

    I am not as nice as zeke ( sometimes I wish i were), so this is the best I can do at being diplomatic. :-)

  32. jimmyboyo says

    Rob, I stand corrected on that particular point.

    though i still find the study flawed in that it does not differentiate between cultural backgrounds of particapants. cultural factors are a huge varriable as far as certain practices are concerned which cause the spread of HIV at a faster rate

  33. Zeke says

    Jimmyboyo,

    I agree with most of what you said, I just think it’s important to present arguments in ways that won’t be interpreted as an attack on people’s parents or people who have never given much thought to the seriousness of the topic or considered the topic from a perspective contrary to the common bias found in America.

  34. RB says

    I must be part of the “American xenocentrism and arrogance” crowd. I was not aware that this was as big of an issue as it apparently is.

    When I was given the choice to have my son circumcized I looked at his mother as if there were any option! We did it! I simply viewed it as a hygiene issue. It NEVER occured to me that I was being “barbaric” practice.

    And no, Lano, I would NEVER have have done the same to my daughter!

    Perhaps I am blindly following in the footsteps of my parents and grandparents, but for me it was all about hygiene and nothing more!

  35. Damon says

    The issue here is happiness overall right? How the hell do you know if I’d been happy with an uncircumsized penis? I’ve met mean who have expressed desire or at least mild interest to be cut. Recently a cousin of mine had gotten cut and had told me how he prefers his penis now to what it had been. I’m not saying that cut is better, I’m just saying your no psychic. I know I’d be able to make the decision if I was an adult but so what? I’m perfectly content with not being made the decision. I’m fine with the fact that my parents didn’t bother asking the future me. And all in all, I’m completely satisfied with my penis. I don’t need anyone to tell me how I feel.

    And if my parents had gotten me cut because they found the foreskin undesirable, well gosh, to be honest, I really wish they felt that sugary cereal was equally if not more undesirable. LOL.

    I feel that you have the right to express dismay over my parent’s decision. Sometimes I wonder why people have children knowing that a person doesn’t have a choice to be born or not. But hell, saying my parents violated me in anyway when they’ve done nothing but help me and accept me is utter bullshit. If you find that appropriate, I suggest you scan over to the last sentence of my previous post.

    Personally I never even had opinion on circumcision until the “Uncut Fanatics” started barking. My parents never told me that one kind of penis was right and the other was wrong. I’ve never been indoctrinated about anything when it came to my penis. I had to find out everything I knew through experience such as seeing a boy with uncut penis, then watching porn with men who had uncut penis’s and finally, bumping into someone who tells me (in more polite, philosophical, political terms) that my dick is a piece of mutilated skin, and its all because my parents are ignorant, selfish, sexual abusing, authoritarian mutilators.

    I disagree with mandatory circumcision. But for fuck sakes, don’t get mad at me because people find uncut dicks undesirable. I’ve met heaps of men who’ve found me undesirable based on my skin color and no gives a fuck. They simply blow it off as a non-issue. All in all, I think people should mind their own business and focus on real way parents abuse their kids, like taking them to Mc Donalds every other day.

  36. jmg says

    JimmyBoyo–the histrionic tone of your comments, coupled with an incident in a bar in NYC a few years ago where a guy from New Zealand starting screaming at me because “Americans mutilate their male children”, do not predispose me to see your side of the issue in a positive light.

    I can see the point that Americans do not question this practice at all.

    I also see that people whom I can only call “Uncut fanatics” are willing to disregard what seem to be real medical benefits to circumcision. Is there some other medical benefit, if found to be linked to circumcision, that would sway you towards accepting the practice?

  37. Damon says

    lol JMG

    Its all I could think up that properly fits this group of people. I really have no qualms with people who find uncut penis to be more attractive but when you use the words mutilate, child abuse, sexual abuse, barbaric, or even American egotism, centricism, et ecetera, obviously your going to hit a nerve, or more appropriately, a man who has had their child circumcisized or worse, someone who has been circumsized, and namely me. lol.

    I really never believed circumcision was an issue. I personally don’t even think I’m going to circumcise my child if I have one unless the chick is Jewish and wants it.

  38. jimmyboyo says

    JMG

    No scientific evidence of substance has ever been put foreword and survived review to show that circumcission provides any medical benefit. Your wishing there was does not make it so.

    Hygene…an uncurcumcised man who does not wash their penis is not going to magicaly wash their penis due to it being circumcissed. Any fresh urine drops that might actualy somehow coat the underside of a foreskin is anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, etc per all medical science and PENTAGON practices of recomending the use of fresh urine to wash out battle wounds on the battlefield where no water is available.

    Circumcisiion is not scientific, is not practical, is not more hygenic.

    “historonic” . I do admit my choice of words might not have been the best due to my zeal on the subject, but “historonics” is itself “hyperbole”
    ——————————————-
    Daimon, I sent you a personal e-mail appologizing for my choice of words and my un-intentionaly offending you. It also mentions the race subject which you brought up. Racism is rampant but not discussed in the gay community. Many forget that the majority of those at Stonewall that fought back against the police were gay African Americans and NOT gay white yuppies who prefered that the boat was not rocked.

  39. LightningLad says

    You gay men and your penis obsession…

    Look, a circumcised penis MAY be less sensitive than an uncircumcised penis – but every day, all over the world, men with circumcised penises have perfectly good orgasms.

    Stop whining because you think mommy and daddy took away your “right” to have the most sensitive and mind-blowing orgasms ever. You have no such right. Be satisfied with what you have.

    Male circumcision is absolutely NOTHING like female gential mutilation which DOES destroy the female genitalia and IS part of a male-dominated system of control of female sexuality.

    I find it so interesting how the anti-circumcision ideological zealots work themselves up into a lather when good science shows that in some circumstance circumcision can do good – in this case, a possible 50% reduction in transmission of HIV.

  40. Zeke says

    Damon, I attempted to be polite and thoughtful in response to your comment. I also asked others to do the same.

    First off, I never said that you WOULD have been happy had you been uncut. Try rereading and comprehending my comment. I said you probably would have been happy with it and if you weren’t happy with it no one would have any issue with you making a personal and informed choice to undergo the procedure.

    Frankly I think it is strange that you would refer to “Uncut fanatics” (I for one have never been called a fanatic for anything) when it is you who is supporting the involuntary amputation of part of a baby’s penis as long a parent deems it to be OK.

    If this discussion were to be held any ANY other western country in the world, it would be the circumcision proponents that would be considered fanatics.

    If you, or anyone else, is lumping me into your cute little “uncut fanatics” category I will tell you now that I take great offense. I think it is absurd that anyone would feel that believing that people should have the right to make these choices for themselves is a fanatic but believing that it’s ok for people to make this choice for others is not.

    One thing that I’ve never been able to understand is why so many men will fight to the death for a woman’s exclusive right to choose something that affects her, her baby and the baby’s father, but they don’t believe a male should have the right to choose to have his body permanently altered in a way that affects ONLY him.

  41. jimmyboyo says

    Lightinglad it does NOT show that

    It shows that the people behind the study did NOT perform a good experiment since there are at least 3 glarring cultural varriables not taken into account and dealt with. To have even 1 glarring varriable and not deal with it in a study makes the entire study fraudulent and void. Contact the AMA and ask about their standards on proper studies and not taking into account cultural explanations.

    I for one never ever drew a connection between female circumcission and male circumcission.

    If you read what I posted from the study by Dr. Taylor then you can read with your own eyes that male circumcission does a lot more than just lessen sensitivity. It also renders the glans more suseptible to inury as well as chapping etc.

    Evolution is a wonderful thing. There is nothing provided for in or on the human body that is not needed and useful. Doctors once though tonsils were unnecessary until better science came along and proved that they help clean the blood of infection…the appendix was also thought once useless but science has shown otherwise. Yes one can live quite normal and healthy lives without a foreskin, tonsils, and or an appendix…BUT properly working foreskins, tonsils, and appendixes are beneficial to the body…..billions of years of evolution is never wrong….a few thousand years of a religous practice can be and often is very very wrong.

    One does realize that the early hebrews who started this whole thing were desert dwelling, NON bathing, goat herders. They generaly only had sand to clean themselves with just like the bedouins of today in the same areas do. YES the practice is from a barbaric time when men thought the world flat and thunder was the rumbeling of an angry god. They also (orthedox still do to this day) viewed sex as a necessary evil to not be thoroughly enjoyed even between a man and woman. This is evidenced by the laws of moses which stipulated that after having sex with one’s own wife one was unclean in the eyes of some desert god and had to sacrifice animals to an angry god to make one clean again in the eyes of that self same fairytale.

    None of this is said in a “historonic” tone, especialy since one would have to be omniscient to be able to tell what tone soemthing via the internet is said in.

  42. t42 says

    I don’t really care if cut men have a lower risk of catching AIDS than uncut men. I think the best solution is pretty simple – WEAR A FUCKING CONDOM EVERY TIME YOU SCREW!!! Yes, I know that condoms are not 100% disease proof either. But it’s much better having everyone (cut or uncut) wear condoms instead of every cut man having unprotected sex.

  43. jimmyboyo says

    T42

    ^5

    CONDOMS and EDUCATION cut the spread of HIV far far far more than anything else and that is proven out by a multitude of studies.

    One could even point out a 4th varriable not taken into account in the so-called study. Those african men who accepted the idea of being circumcissed by WESTERN doctors for the study would also be more likely to accept WESTERN doctors’ advice on using condoms. Those african men who would think a western doctor nuts for suggesting cutting their foreskin most likely would also think a western doctor nuts for suggesting they use a condom.

  44. Damon says

    Zeke, you attempted.
    I don’t think there’s anyway I personally can be politer. If its my vulgar language that sets you off, excuse it, its how I normally talk. I just really want you to understand that although you don’t mean it, you’re offending me almost as much as Jimmy is doing. Now I believe peoples opinions, right or wrong will offend others despite how much glitter they dump on their words. And both of us are examples of that notion. Lol.

    Zeke, I completely understand your comment, I just didn’t address it too clearly. If I didn’t like it, people WOULD have a problem with me going through the procedure because people would become offended by the reasons for my decision. Either way, I don’t care what people care about what I do with my body.

    I don’t believe I’m being a “Cut Fanatic”. I think a “Cut Fanatic” would be a person who believes that mandatory circumcisions should be applied to every hospital, maybe even against the parents will. The closes I’m coming to fanatic of is parent’s rights. I believe a cut cock is as nice and healthy as an uncut cock and that all these studies trying to prove its other wise is bullshit. Its bullshit when you are trying to think and feel for other people.

    And so what if I’m an American? Just because I’m an American doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything my culture tells me and like I said, my culture, my country, my government, my parents have never told me anything about circumcision. You aren’t being polite when you assume my opinions are formed because of what country I live in. I really don’t think I’ve ever judged anyone’s thoughts and feelings based on the country of community they lived in.

    I’d also like to add that I’m Pro-Life. I’m not to sure if I believe the government should withhold a woman from having an abortion but I’m completely sure that I believe that abortions is what it is, kill a potential human being.

  45. mark m says

    Wow…

    I mean WOW.

    I have to agree with RB on this. I had no CLUE that my penis was so politicized. Guess it shouldn’t be surprising. Our dicks are pretty special to us men.

    I respect you both Zeke and Jimmyboyo and you make intelligent points. I just have to count myself as one of those xenocentric (was that the word?) Americans who never gave it much thought.

    It’s hard to not get people excited when you use words like “mutilation” and “amputation” and “functioning damage”….

    I love my dick and so does my hubby. I can have multiple orgasms (within seconds sometimes) and I’m the only man I’ve ever met who can admit as much.

    Guess I traded quality for quantity when my folks sliced me :)

  46. jimmyboyo says

    Damon

    I find it offensive that you can not accept an apology. Heck even aknowledging that one was sent to you via e-mail. I could have respected “I recieved it, but do not accept your appology” response…NOPE not a word of aknowledgement that someone tried to appologize to you for offending you.

    Especialy a nicely worded one sent directly to you via e-mail which I can repost here for ALL to judge how I tried to bend over backwards to appologize for offending you.

    Because you won’t even aknowledge the effort but still say that I am offending you then the gloves are off.

    You with your lack of accepting a heart felt appology have shown yourself to be a small mindeed, stone cold hearted, catty queen that probably enjoys a good cat fight more than anything else . Maybe people treating you a certain way at clubs (you mentioned)is not due to your race (the racism within the gay community which I agree exists and is abhorent) but rather your being a small souled, cold hearted, catty queen who can not accept a heart felt appology when delivered.

    A simple aknowledgment of reciept of said appology yet not accepted would have been respectful. You demand people to tip toe around your oh so sensitive sensibilities (you wilting hot house flower you)yet you can not show mutual respect back towards others. LOL

    I now do not regret one bit offending you. I retract my appology. Be offended and grow some balls you oh so delicate flower you.

  47. Damon says

    For the love of God Jimmy, I missed your post where you said you sent me an email, and didn’t even know you had sent me anything until I checked my email. In fact, I actually opened up another window to refer to when composing an email to you, and I find this. Jeez.

    I only read the first paragraph and began reading the rest until I realized that it was going to piss me off and ruin a nice day so I won’t bother looking at it.

    Jimmy, please calm down and stop drawing to conclusions so fast. I’m not on the computer every minute of the day. I don’t check my email every hour, and I specifically was talking to Zeke therefore, I didn’t bother reading anyone’s else posts except his.

  48. jimmyboyo says

    Mark M

    LOL ^5 to you on the multiples. My record is 4-5 (shootings blanks around 4 so 5 was sensation of orgasm without actual cum)but spaced out by a few minutes …not seconds like you you lucky dog you :-) Your husband is quite lucky.
    ——————————————-
    zeke I appologize if my final “historonic” (yes, that one was historonic…LOL) post to damon catches you up in my wake (like a fish caught in the wake of a whale)and somehow causes someone to equate your much much nicer than I responses to my final “historonic” rant.

    ZEKE is very nice everyone and is very diplomatic in his responses unlike my zealot like fiery temper personality and ask all to not lump us together because he is far far nicer than I ever could be.
    ——————————————–

    On my final rant….WOW that “historonic” eruption felt very good :-)

    goodnight all and I expect Andy to ban me by tomorrow. :-) Oh well

  49. Zeke says

    Damon, I don’t know how I could possibly be offending you by saying that I think everyone who wants to be circumcised should have every right to make that decision for themselves but no one should make such a personal decision for anyone else?

    Why is it that someone who thinks a person should be able to make these very personal decisions for themselves is considered radical, whiny, a zealot and pushing his opinion on others but someone who advocates for one person making a decision to amputate a part of ANOTHER person’s body is considered reasonable, noble and NOT pushing his will on another?

    Lightninglad, though you think you are clever with your condescending and mocking tone you are neither clever nor informed. Female circumcision in Africa is practiced overwhelmingly by Maternalistic tribes and is administered by FEMALE elders in female-only ceremonies. The procedure you claim is THE female circumcision is EXTREMELY rare. The most common form is very similar to the male version.

    Strangely enough, a person can rail on and on with extreme exaggerations of the female procedure and they aren’t considered fanatics but a person who dares to challenge an American custom is immediately set upon.

    Lightninglad, you also seem to be under the impression that male circumcision in Africa, Turkey etc. is performed in a sterile hospital environment by a medical doctor under general anesthetic. You would be wrong. (Again: http://www.drabruzzi.com/circumcision.htm) Strange how you exaggerate female circumcision to the extreme and then minimize male circumcision to the other extreme. But THAT is reasonable?

    Before you come here making grand proclamations of ignorance I would suggest that you do some research. Here’s a suggestion: Try reading a study or two that doesn’t parrot you preconceived notions on a topic. The internet is full of very rational and reasonable studies that show the history of the ritual and the modern procedure here and abroad. One doesn’t have to be on the lunatic fringe to come to an informed position that all people should be entitled to make decisions concerning their genitalia for themselves.

    I think I have earned a reputation here for being thoughtful and polite in my commenting. I also feel that I have earned a reputation for not commenting on things that I know nothing about. Some people here, on both sides, seem to be arguing as if they are being personally attacked based on their penile status. That is not my intent. I am not judging anyone or anyone’s parents for making the decision to circumcise. I know that people make this decision based on what they know or what they think they know. I simply want people to be truly informed about the issue and not treat it as if it akin to deciding whether they want to have their child’s hair cut.

    That doesn’t seem so unreasonable to me but frankly some of the silly arguments I’ve read above do.

    Mark M, if you have issues with terms like “mutilation” and “amputation” then perhaps you should look up their definitions.

    Sorry for typos, bad grammar, sentence fragments or run-on sentences. I’m not taking the time to proofread this. Going to bed. Good night. :)

  50. LightningLad says

    Look Zeke and the other anti-circumcision ideologues:

    When circumcision is performed under sanitary conditions, then 99% of the time, no harm is done to the penis. Reducing the sensitivity of the penis is not “mutilation.” The dictionary definition of mutilation is to so harm or destroy something so as to make it unable to function. People with circumcised penises are still able to have erections and feel sensation and have orgasms. Therefore, there is no mutilation – UNLIKE the case with female gential mutilation where long-lasting harm to both the health and functioning of the female genitalia is usually involved.

    And just because women may perform the female genital mutiliation doesn’t mean it isn’t part of a practice meant to make girls and women virginal and pure for men. It’s still a patriarchal practice.

    Believe me, I’ve read some of the anti-circumcision literature out there and the stuff they make up to support their position – stuff like arguing that circumcision is akin to psychologically repressed trauma, which can’t even be psychologically proven – is so out of this world, it actually makes me laugh.

    The African studies were well-conducted studies and you are upset that good science has trumped your ideological beliefs.

    Ultimately at the end of the day you are upset because some doctor removed your foreskin when you were an infant and in your mind you were denied the ultimate in orgasmic pleasure that you think you deserve.

    But you know what? Somebody out there is always going to have bigger and better orgasms than you. What then? There are people with cut penises who have better orgasms than people with uncut penises. Have a foreskin is not guarantee that you are going to have the mindblowing orgasms you believe are your due.

    I really do think this all has to do with gay men being obsessed with their dicks and sexual obsessiveness. I do find it interesting that gay men tend to be more vocal and agitated about this issue than straight men.

    At the end of the day, circumcision is a health decision parents make for their children, just like getting them vaccinated, or telling them to put a coat on in the cold weather. If you’re a parent, you get to make these decision on behalf of your children. I think all parents who have children should be educated about both the potential benefits and potential risks of circumcision and let them make the decision themselves, which is actually what the position of the AMA is.

    If you want to try to change parents’ minds, you go ahead and try to do that. In the meantime, all parents should be informed that circumcision MAY reduce the likelihood of getting HIV (notice how I qualify my statement with the word “may” indicating that those who advocate science, rather than ideological zealotry, are willing to consider evidence that may disconfirm their views.)

  51. jimmyboyo says

    Circumcision: A Jewish Feminist Perspective
    http://www.noharmm.org/pollack.htm

    If there were any group to give a balanced view on circumcission it would be a group whose very identity is wrapped up in the practice. The above site takes the stand that jewish mothers should forbid circumcission due to medical and psychological reasons. That jewish women for millenia have kept their jewish identity despite not even having a foreskin to circumcise and that argument that jews should not stop circumcissing would be detremental to the jewish identity.

    Some interesting facts sited at the above site are

    “there is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn” (American Academy of Pediatrics, 1975). The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists followed with a similar statement in 1978 (American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, 1983)

    An infant does retain significant memory truces of traumatic events. When a child is subjected to intolerable, overwhelming pain, it conceptualizes mother as both participatory and responsible regardless of mother’s intent. When in fact, mother is truly complicit, as in giving permission for unanesthetized surgery, (i.e., circumcision) the perception of the infant of her culpability and willingness to have him harmed is indelibly emplaced. The consequences for impaired bonding are significant (Laibow, 1991).Because the centers for pain and pleasure reside in such close proximity to each other in the human brain, it has been found that flooding the neonatal brain with massive trauma creates physiological changes in brain structure (Prescott, 1989). Physiologic responses to painful stimuli have been well documented in neonates of various gestational ages and are reflected in hormonal, metabolic, and cardio-respiratory changes similar to but greater than those observed in adult subjects. Other responses in newborn infants are suggestive of integrated emotional and behavioral responses to pain and are retained in memory long enough to modify subsequent behavior patterns (Anand &Hickey, 1987).

    This last is particularly relevant to this thread

    The contention that circumcision helps prevent venereal disease is completely contradicted by the facts. The Centers for Disease Control reported that the syphilis rate has increased seventy-five percent since 1985, and yet, those who have contracted the disease were born when the neonatal circumcision rate was at its highest. Likewise, the incidence of gonorrhea and genital herpes has risen sharply (Wallerstein, 1986). Neither can circumcision seriously be considered an effective prophylaxis against the transmission of HIV. American men who have been acutely vulnerable to the AIDS virus are amongst the most highly circumcised male populations in the world.

    ——————————————–

    Now I am truly out of here, good night all

  52. Anon says

    My, where do you guys get all this time to type!

    Circumcision is a pan-mediterranean phenomenon that includes Hebrew and non-Hebrew cultures.

    Most parenting is mediocre and most children are mediocre and that’s just the way things are. Parents make mistakes all the time. However, we can approach this issue by ramping up the harm: let’s say your parents decide that you need to have your left foot amputated because it is possessed by demons (not for any clear medical reason). In theory the religious basis is equivalent to circumcision, but would you still be content with their decision? I have my doubts. There are many examples of outdated ideas causing bad decisions. I don’t think they need any sympathy or protection.

  53. Zeke says

    Before I go to bed I have to say one more thing.

    Has it crossed ANYONE’S mind here that there might actually be men here who have been the victim of botched circumcisions? When people say, “I’m cut and I’m perfectly happy with my dick so I don’t know what the big deal is”, did any of you consider the fact that it’s not just about YOUR fucking dick?

    When some of you are talking about “uncut fanatics” and “zealots” and making statements like, “Stop whining because you think mommy and daddy took away your “right” to have the most sensitive and mind-blowing orgasms ever. You have no such right. Be satisfied with what you have”, did you for one moment consider just how utterly fucked up such a statement might be to someone who has to endure a lifetime of problems because someone else made a decision to have him circumcised and the result was a severely scarred penis? Can you not imagine how someone who has endured this might take great offense at being called whiney just because he doesn’t want ANY other boy (including his own son) to have to endure the same as the result of a completely unnecessary and permanent surgical procedure that is not even recommended by the AMA but is promoted mainly because it has become as American as apple pie?

    Well, let me just lay it on the line. I AM THAT PERSON!

    And everyone here pay, real close attention because I am getting ready to do something that I have never done before and I hope I will NEVER do again.

    Lightninglad, YOU ARE A FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!

    How dare you fucking lecture me about why I take this issue so seriously? How dare you fucking presume to know anything about me or my intentions? I’ve tried to deflect all of the ignorant proclamations from those of you who are such fucking experts about the banality of circumcision and what a simple procedure it is and how it’s practically as non-intrusive as a haircut. I’ve tried to be polite even though people here who have whined that I offended them had no clue just how offensive they were being to me. I’ve tried to avoid getting so personal by speaking in broad generalizations and dropping subtle hints but some people are obviously just too fucking brilliant to catch on to such subtlety.

    So let me be a bit less subtle. Grow the fuck up and consider for one moment that the world reaches beyond YOUR fuckin dick and YOUR fuckin experience!

    Why do gay men “obsess” about this more than straight men you ask? If you weren’t such a fucking moron you would realize that it’s because most straight men pay no attention to anyone’s dick but their own and most straight men don’t concern themselves with anything that supports other men’s health or well being.

    This will be my last comment on this thread. I was actually praying to God that Andy wouldn’t post this story because I knew that shit for brains deep assholes like Lightninglad would come out of the woodwork saying just the kind of ignorant “ideologue”, “zealot”, “whiney” shit that he did. I wasn’t disappointed! I should have just stayed the hell off of this thread.

    I want to apologize to Andy and my friends here for losing my cool. In the future I will refrain from reading discussion boards that I know will push my buttons like this one has.

  54. steve says

    Geez calm down everybody

    esspecially you Miss Damon!

    The fact it…that cut cocks are SO last season. By the time generation Z (if that’s the next one) comes around. The majority of men will be uncut

    Also think of it like this…We have a foreskin for reason

  55. rudy says

    The depth of emotion expressed here shows how very personal is this issue. This is not a trivial subject because it affects our body image and functioning and is made for us before we are able to speak for ourselves. It is family legend how my normally reserved Hispanic cowboy father nearly blew the roof off the hospital with his rage when he discovered that my mother’s pediatrician had taken it upon himself to circumsize me without even discussing it with my parents. My father would never have let them “butcher” me (his term) although I am perfectly happy with my cut dick. But then again, if I had been asked and able to answer I would not have chosen to be circumsized. My Dad’s ire was raised again when he felt compelled to consent to having my brother circumsized so we would not be “different”. I know of one case where a circumcision was medically necessary. I had a friend whose schmuck was so tight that his dickhead could not emerge, which made sex painful, particularly because he was incredibly well hung. He suffered intense pain and a prolonged healing period when he was finally circumsized at 24 years of age. My longtime partner is uncut and appears to have incredible orgasms (but I credit that to my skill!). According to my brother and sisters (who have sons), they were advised that current medical practice is not to circumsize unless requested by the parents for religious reasons because there is scant evidence that circumcision is necessary for cleanliness or other health related concerns (prior to this latest HIV transmission “study”). The majority of American baby boom generation males were circumsized as a matter of course. The pendulum has swung however and the majority of American males born since the eighties are no longer being circumsized. This is the practice in the rest of the world except for observant Jews and Muslims. The change in thinking has been the recognition that this is a serious issue that paernts need to address in a deliberate manner. The number of posts and the well of emotions expressed here confirm this judgment.

  56. mark m says

    Zeke, my dear friend, I do not need to look up the definition of said words in my earlier post. I know the definitions. My point was simply that for circumsized men, those appear to be red flag terms.

    It’s clear that I stumbled upon a discussion that I should have been more sensitive to and perhaps not so glib.

    I apologize if my comment was an irritation or distraction to your obviously heated and passionate debate on this thread.

    I, unlike most on this thread, do not feel strongly enough about the subject to let it get in the way of common courtesy. Consider me mute on this subject.

    Have a great morning.

  57. mark m says

    Zeke,

    I basically scrolled down and skipped the rest of the posts after reading your terse instruction directed towards me.
    In doing so I missed your confession and I am TRULY sorry that I came across as one of those insensitives.

    You have every right to feel the way you do — angry! Honestly, none of your arguments hit home with me until your confession.

    Zeke, by making a bold and brave step to reveal something so personal and sensitive, you won me over with your argument… because yes, I am a selfish imperfect human being. I need to actually know a soul who has been touched by such a thing to understand why it’s so important.

    I’m simply not sophisticated or big hearted enough to take on all of the world’s injustices and mistakes unless someone I know and admire brings one of those injustices to my attention.

    I’m deeply sorry that it happened to you but I applaud you for being brave and MAN enough to share that. I know it couldn’t be easy.

  58. rudy says

    Amen to that Mark M. Zeke, you never fail to impress me with your deep humanity and concern for your fellow beings, imperfect though we remain. Righteous anger is yours. Your willingness to share educates all of us. Muchicimas gracias, compadre.

  59. Strathos says

    I’m on the side of cut dicks. I just think they look better and that has nothing to do with how I was raised or what I was told. I’m not for the cutting of infants, but if a man wants it why judge him.

    I love my uncut cock and so do many other people. LOL

  60. Strathos says

    One more thought. Why is it that no matter where you turn you’ve got people trying to tell you how to live and what to cut and what not to cut?

    Again, cutting an infant boy without pain killers is horrible, however, I’m one of the cut and if my dick was any more sensitive I probably couldn’t deal with it.

    To each his own and let’s stop telling people how to live. HOWEVER, I think it’s best that we let the men decide if they want to cut their dicks and not the parents.

  61. LightningLad says

    >>One more thought. Why is it that no matter where you turn you’ve got people trying to tell you how to live and what to cut and what not to cut?

    Indeed. It’s the anti-circumcision zealots that are going around telling people what to do or what not to do.

    As I said before: parents should be informed about both the possible benefits and risks of circumcision and then they can make that decision for their child – just as they make hundreds of other health care related decisions.

    As far as Zeke’s botched circumcision goes, your one personal experience, no matter how unfortunate it is, does not exemplify the broader scientific truth, which is that the vast majority of circumcisions are not botched.

    You accuse me and others of not looking outside our own experience, yet you are guilty of what you accuse others are, allowing your personal experience to distort the valid scientific data on the benefits of circumcision.

  62. Derek says

    some of you boys posting comments really really need to get a life….

    you appear to be such losers with nothing else to do but trade catty barbs with each other….

    most of you want nothing else than to have to last word and it’s sad….

  63. Jack says

    SO TRUE!!! And no they do not send female officers to catch straight men. It’s discriminatory. And it’s got to stop!

    “I’ve never understood this thing with undercover officers trying to seduce guys at cruising spots, just to arrest them when they make a move. I don’t think we have this kind of thing anywhere in Continental Europe.
    Do they send attractive female officers to places where lots of straight guys hang out as well?” – Borut

  64. jimmyboyo says

    Lightinglad

    I wish you would actualy post FACTS instead of your opinions

    You keep saying things like “scientific data” BUT you have not posted one study, one fact, one experiment, one actual statistic, or one REPUTABLE scientific/ medical organization

    I have, but why don’t you take it up with the AMA and the AAP

    the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association both consider circumcission to be painful and A medically-unjustified procedur.

    The Center for Disease Control has declared that circumcission does NOT prevent or slow down the spread of STD’s

    BUT lo and behold the all mighty QUEEN OF HEAVEN herself Lightinglad has declared otherwise and be damned all us poor mortals because the Great Goddess Queen of heaven lightinglad knows better than the AMA and the AAP and the CDC

    LOl you are just making yourself look more the fool. My wonder is why oh why you are so adamant about circumcission? Is it your heritage? The calling into question of this practice calls into question your ethnic heritage? Well per 3 count them 3 well respected jewish organizations it is ok for jews to question circumcission. It is ok to not get circumcissed and many jews are opting to not circumcise their sons.

    http://jewishcircumcision.org/ CRC

    Israeli Association Against Genital Mutilation
    P.O. Box 56178, Tel Aviv 61561, Israel Tel 972-9-8949236 E-mail: avshalom@ozemail.com.au

    Af-Milah – Second Thoughts on Brit Milah The Israeli Newsletter Against Circumcision (in Hebrew)
    P.O. Box 207, Rosh-Pinah 12000, Israel Tel 972-51-979568 E-mail: af-mila@canaan.co.il

    So, all knowing Goddess Queen of heaven and earth who we poor schlep mortals should bow and scrape before because you know better than the

    AMA, AAP, and CDC
    what is your bias? where are you coming from? Maybe perhaps you perform circumcissions? The state of Arizona recently showed that the cost for the procedure is in the dollars while the cost to the patient’s family is anywhere betwee $60- a few hundred dollars which is a mark up of 1,000%- 5,000% A lot of profit right there

    So Lightinglad, where are you coming from? What is your bias? What is your slant?

    I admit mine is that yes I would love to have even more mind blowing orgasms….Yes I love my dick, yes I love sex because sex is GOOD!!!!! and that little boys should not have procedures done to them that are medicaly unnecesary / provide NO health benefit like a vacination would (nice false analogy between those 2 you did) and are painful 9as registered in multiple studies showing increased heart rate, sweating, increased breathing, and actual tears and screams coming from 99% of boys while they are being circumcissed per the AAP)

  65. Damon says

    Jimmy, have you considered the opposing viewpoint by any chance. Read any pro-circumcision studies?

    I’m pretty much done arguing. What I will say is that from what I’ve read, I believe that there ARE benefits that come from circumcision. My extended family doesn’t practice new-born circumcision and I’ve personally seen some of the results that comes with the negative side of having a foreskin including a cousin who’ve gotten his foreskin stuck in his zipper, another cousin who got a nasty infection threatening his sexual being…

    …A friend who had to get circumcised because of frenular chordee…

    There’s no studies really proving that circumcision definitely decreases the sensitivity of the penis and I’ve got three personal men I know to prove that there’s a difference between studies and personal experience.

    Contrary to what Zeke believes, I will not have my son cut for whatever Americana, “parental fascist” reason. I feel sorry that he was one of the small percentage who do have a botched operation but c’mon, when someone who’s worn condoms everytime get HIV do we ban condoms or simply dismiss them as an effective agent against HIV?

    So in a way, I am basising my beliefs on my personal experience but I believe I have the right to do that. I believe every parent does because thats all any parent can do.

  66. JT says

    An observation: this thread has over 75 posts. That’s a record for the week. And the amazing thing is that, with only a few exceptions, these posts deal with the circumcision article a non-“gay” topic.

  67. jimmyboyo says

    Just found this out

    30%

    30% 3 out of 10 circumcissions result in severe scarring and or total amputation of the glans (head of penis)

    WOW, a lot more than your opinions lightinglad claimed.

    one wonders why doctors do not mention this fact to mothers and fathers who are trusting and relying on them??? The MONEY circumcission turns out to be one of the least expensive medical procedures to perform yet brings in HUGE 1,000-5,000% mark up profits.

    30% WOW

    3 out of every 10 are mutilated, scarred, and or fully removed. Stuff that in your non statistic non scientific data just opinion spouting pipe lightinglad

    To all fathers like RB who allowed their sons to be circumcissed, I in no way condemn you. You relied on doctors. You trusted and believed that medical profesionals would tell you all the facts. The didn’t…they were after your easy money. be happy that your sons’ circumcission were not within the 30% scarring, mutilation, and or full amputation of glans (head of penis)

  68. jimmyboyo says

    damon

    you are entitled to your opinions, this is america

    BUT the

    AMA American Medical Association
    AAP American Association of Pediatrics

    both say that circumcission provides no medical benefit. I would bet my life that both organizations know a whole heck of a lot mroe than the 2 of us combined.

  69. jimmyboyo says

    Nandi Siegfried a South African Nuffield Medical Fellow at the University of Oxford, Oxford, United Kingdom (lightinglad does your education boackground and or current job beat OXFORD? LOL)She has no financial or other competing interests in male circumcision. (this latter part is stressed because she questions the financial motivations behind the supposed studies backers since circumcission turns out to be a very very very profitable procedure.)no causal relationship between male circumcision and HIV prevention could be confidently assumed (she and others are going over the suppsoed above study with a fine toothed comb and are not convinced so far by what they have seen, they are finding faults with the control group, the experimental group, and other varriables. She and others are questioning the financial interests behind the study)

    BUSTED

    Lighteninglad, I am sure that she far far far outranks you on education and employment

  70. jimmyboyo says

    The United Nations weighs in

    – United Nations Development Programme Emergencies Unit for Ethiopia Situation Report for Ethiopia

    Sites that circumcission is universal in Ethiopia especialy amongst Coptic christians yet the spread of HIV in ethiopia is one of the highest in africa and no correlation between circumcission and slowing the spread of HIV can be made

    The UN also sites that circumcission is a cure looking for a symptom and has so for a very long time

    “masturbation insanity” in the 19th century,
    then tuberculosis,
    Sexually Transmitted Diseases (then called Venereal Disease or VD) after World War I,
    penile cancer in the 1930s, and
    cervical cancer in the 1950s, when cancers were terrifyingly untreatable,
    Urinary Tract Infections from 1982 onward,
    and now HIV.

    The UN sites the financial interests behind a cheap to do medical practice with a high mark up in cost to patients. That the latest study is 1 out of hundreds over the past decade to try to draw a line of conection between circumcision and HIV prevention. It is the only 1 to show any connection and based on hundreds of other studies showing otherwise, the conclusion is called into serious question. The UN also worries that financial interests are hell bent to get less educated africans to submit to an unnecessary yet very profitable medical procedure.

    So lightinglad

    The
    AMA
    AAP
    both say unnecesary medical procedure
    The
    CDC
    OXFORD
    UN
    all say that the study is faulty and financial interests are trying to push an unnecesary and NON helpful procedure. The UN goes as far as saying it is just the latest scam linking circumcission to some benefit to try to bilk people out of money.

    The UN also says that properly used condoms are KNOWN to slow the spread of HIV by 80% and bemoan the fact that the Bush regieme has cut funding to provide condoms to poorer african nations

    lightinglad oh mighty Goddess Queen of heaven and earth….do you wish to put foreword that you know better than the AMA, AAP, Oxford, CDC, and the UN???

    LOL

    done and done

  71. Mark Lyons says

    Everybody has their own preferences, but I am circumcised and have never regretted it a single day. I just think a penis looks so much more attractive circumcised and even more so when it is not erect.

  72. RB says

    WOW…where to begin? First, I honestly had no idea that this was such a political issue. CLUELESS!!!

    Zeke, you are the man and I think the world of you. Jimmyboyo, you know that I like you too! I can honestly say that they have taught me many things and I will forever have their backs. Regardless!

    I simply want to say that it is ok to disagree. I had my son circumcized for hygiene reasons only and would do it again. I also uderstand that there could be complications. Somehow, it never occured to me that it was a huge political deal. I simply missed the whole thing.

    Zeke is such an awesome guy! He has taught me more about what is important about being a gay man, and a human being that I could ever have learned on my own! However, it is ok to disagree. We are all influenced by our own experiences. We all come to the table with diferent life experiences and that is ok.

    I am not sure how to respond other than Zeke and Jimmyboyo are my friends and their posts represent their experiences and their beliefs. Regardless of my beliefs, I respect theirs and I am a better person today for having known them.

    Unfortunately for them, I still agree with circumcision. Fortunately for ME, they still respect me and I am still their friend.

    Everything I needed to know about life I learned on the baseball field; it takes a team. It is ok to differ, but not ok to tear one another down in the process. I have been far too guilty of that in the past.

  73. jimmyboyo says

    RB

    :-)

    I enjoy your different perspective/ perceptions than mine….lightinglad, not so much

    :-) Peace to all

  74. Noone says

    Almost everyone in this thread is missing the point those of us against circumcision are trying to make:

    YOU ARE IMPOSING YOUR WILL (i.e. AS PARENTS) ON SOMEONE ELSE (i.e. YOUR INFANT) THAT RESULTS IN THEIR PERMANENT BODILY CHANGE.

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to shout. We are arguing that you have no right to impose such will (esp. resulting in permanent change (notice I didn’t say damage)).

    Here’s what we’re not arguing against:

    An adult male’s choice to undergo circumcision.

    Thank you.

  75. RB says

    Noone,

    My kids are perfectly free to do whatevery they like as soon as they pay rent! I get frustrated when people who are not parents try to tell me how to raise my children.

    While I appreciate and respect your opinion, I do not share the sentiment nor do I believe you respect my position on this matter.

    Sorry, but this post angered me! I have tried to remain neutral and simply state my opinion, but it is clear that there are many here that have no kids and will never have them trying to dictate child raising.

  76. Noone says

    RB,

    You just don’t get it do you? I’m not trying to tell you how to raise your kids. Yes, as a parent you are obligated to make choices for your kids until they grow up and do it for themselves. And most of the time, you try to make the best choice, relying on the best information available.

    And yet, no decision you make for your kids (good or bad) is as _permanent_ (note: this is the emphasis) to their body as circumcision. Why does that anger you?

  77. jmg says

    What about smoking or not smoking during pregnancy?

    Breast-feeding or not breast-feeding?

    These are also permanent decisions which the children have no say in.

  78. RB says

    I suppose one of the reasons this angers me so much is that at the end of the day, my son would much rather know why he does NOT have 10 fingers than why he was circumsized!!?? You see, we ALL come to the table with our own issues. I just want his hand to be normal and YOU talk about “barbaric torture”!!! KISS MY ASS and I mean that with the most humble of intentions!