Don't Ask, Don't Tell | Gay Rights | Military | News | Peter Pace

Gen. Peter Pace Says Military Shouldn't Condone "Immoral" Gays

In an interview with Chicago Tribune editors and reporters, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman General Peter Pace said that homosexuality is immoral and gays should not be allowed to serve openly in the military.

Peter_paceSaid Pace: "I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way. As an individual, I would not want [acceptance of gay behavior] to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else's wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior."

Pace said he based his views on his "upbringing".

C. Dixon Osburn, the executive director of the Servicemen's Legal Defense Network (SLDN), immediately called on Pace to apologize: "General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces. Our men and women in uniform make tremendous sacrifices for our country, and deserve General Pace's praise, not his condemnation. As a Marine and a military leader, General Pace knows that prejudice should not dictate policy. It is inappropriate for the Chairman to condemn those who serve our country because of his own personal bias. He should immediately apologize for his remarks."

Pace's remarks directly contradict the views of Former General and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili, who said in January that he believes the military is ready for openly gay servicemen.

Said Shalikashvili: "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces. Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

Shalikashvili did not bring his personal views on what is "moral" into the equation.

AmericaBlog notes: "I'd say 'immoral' is letting our own injured and maimed soldiers sleep in their own urine when you all knew about it and didn't give a damn. Immoral is lying to the American people in order to get us into a war. Immoral is sending hundreds of thousands of US soldiers into battle without the proper armor. Immoral is risking the lives of our soldiers by still not having a plan for victory or exit."

Top general calls homosexuality 'immoral' [chicago tribune]

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  1. Hitler was very happy to let Rhoem bash in the Communists, the dissidents, and the avant garde artists who saw things different. Roehm was very, very out masculine, Sadomashistic type of guy.
    He was also loyal and loved the Party.
    Many German homosexuals did. Read history folks. Why are you so different. Oh I forgot-you have your rights ,,,,excuse me.

    And when the time came to ice him, Hitler did flinch but only slightly, as he didn't personally mind that the men he knew in the early years were homosexuals. Himmler, understanding how the German people would complain, see through told him "you must kill them all"(the SA-Himmler was SS), so Hitler with what he said were regrets decreed the death of hundreds of the SA, (the night of long knives), and said he had to for the sake of the state...Then purity laws were enacted. It's all in the history books. Purity of Morality for the State.
    The moral security of the Homeland. This may be dramatic, and you can say it's never true in the great USA...and I am first generation immigrant yet I never realized I would live in a country that creates Gitmo.
    Have yo been there? They have lovely food, so the Senator's say...Dick Cheney says it's sunny and quite posh....

    Serious,any of a top players in the republican/right/evangelical regime must either join fully, mouth the party line. Or get out...Example Dick Cheney, his daughter, and countless republican pioneers, they must be quiet and speak against the gay conspiracy or face the harsh cold pavement.
    This is the brillaince of the new repubilican control, and it works.
    Do you not know that certain repubicans/democrats and media executives have been shown rather comprimising data/pics/e-mails to coerce votes on Invasions, and curtailing "civil liberties"?
    Did you know that a couple of State department analysts died as sucides before Iraq was invaded?
    I am amazed that Americans want to watch Sopranos, when a much more effiecient mob is dismantling the country.
    For the whole lot of America, you are part of "decayed liberalism" and the religous moral talk is excellant cover snow job people to accept War, Two-Tiered system, reducing icrementally rights/ land,property ect. also. The brave soldiers are also fighting to get to college, and buy a truck,and not die of poverty. And for the homosexual/lesbian/transgender in the United States now, there is the underlying suspicion that he or she is not safe, he is different, not a part of by many. It's implied, but it's there.
    This doesn't necessarily mean some concentration camp senario, but the words denote that homosexaul is sub-human by Mr. Pace, George Bush, Donald Trump,Ralph Reed, and many, many other's. Including the Jeff Gannon, Matt Sanchez reformed homosexual confessions making cable talk show "news". It says see they are against the State. Many of the architects of the Nazi Reich were in fact gay/jewish or both. This is so hard to fathom?
    To a degree as of the present the army/the congress/the senate resemble the way Soviet society operated in early Stalin era.
    The military is mirroring not what is going to change , but what is approaching. A lone general speaking out will not cahnge the agenda of very cynical brokers. I can assure you that the top dogs are not only working overtime, but counting on the exact diversity, and confusion of all their opponents to help further the dream of a rebuilt prto empirethat they envision.
    The technology being employed by NSA is astounding, and they now track the most inane things, but it is most excellent in that future wise everybody can be the suspect. So nobody really has rights though they tell you do. You are afraid but you don't know how or why. Sound familiar?

    As an example: I am a professor who voices view regrading Muslims, and War, ect. I am also single, or married but the intelligence agency which now has domestic oversight send me links to compromising sites. I open those links. Dead!
    Could be Kid porn, could be "terror sites", or whatever. I am tried by the cable shows.
    Think how many are going to defend me. How many brave men?

    Posted by: John D | Mar 13, 2007 10:32:54 AM

  2. I agree with the SLDN statement. Moreover, I believe Gen. Pace should be relieved of his command. President Bush, however, is the "decider" on that one.

    Our elected representatives should repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and permit openly gay men and women to serve in the military. Nothing less.

    In this great country of ours, Gen. Pace has to follow orders.

    If Gen. Pace and his fellow homophobes cannot deal with change, let them retire into oblivion, just as the diehard segregationists once did.

    P.S. Some of the best marines I know, the ones of whom Gen. Pace would be most proud, prefer same sex partners. Nature will out.

    Posted by: John | Mar 13, 2007 10:34:06 AM

  3. All the gay men and women should just pack up and get the hell out of the military. Why should they give of their best and serve their country when their country and leaders are hostile to their very existence? The military does not deserve them. Let them find 65,000 straights that want to do the dirty work instead. Let them find a few more straights that want to get shot in Iraq. If someone wants to serve their country, the military should just shut the f*** up and be thankful and grateful that they do, never mind their sexual preference. Show some bloody "General". You are not worthy.

    Posted by: atheist | Mar 13, 2007 10:39:47 AM

  4. (Apols, that should read 'Show some bloody respect General').

    Posted by: atheist | Mar 13, 2007 10:45:39 AM

  5. So let me get this straight...Homosexuality is immoral, but the murder and fascism inherent in any military operation is not immoral? And it is OK to teach men and women to kill and brutalize one another, but loving one another is godless. No wonder we and our military are losing this insane war. We are fighting against Islamic fundamentalists who believe the same things as our religious conservatives. Seems Christianity and Islam have a great deal in common...much to the chagrin of demagogues on either side.

    Posted by: Raman | Mar 13, 2007 10:46:33 AM

  6. He just wants to "preserve his precious bodily fluids".

    Posted by: Josh | Mar 13, 2007 10:47:50 AM

  7. ...unfortunately so many still think that being gay is only about sex, therefore immoral (Gen Pace included) can we change that?

    Posted by: yeahisaidit | Mar 13, 2007 10:53:58 AM

  8. "In other words the facts show that if you want immorality and poverty....believe the bible"

    The facts show that if you want immorality and poverty look at the southerners, particulalry the Bible thumping racist white southerners..

    Posted by: G. Chell | Mar 13, 2007 11:01:01 AM

  9. "GW Bush has been stretching the military so thin lately that they've had to lower their standards -- scrape the bottom of the recruiting barrel, so to speak -- and they're now allowing some felons to join. They call this a "moral waiver"."

    Comment: Round up all the College Republicans give them ammunition and send them to the front.

    Posted by: G. Chell | Mar 13, 2007 11:02:24 AM

  10. So, does Gen. Pace approve of gay group sex generally, or just three ways? Since he denounces "homosexual acts between two individuals" as immoral, I guess he's open to homosexual acts between three or more people. When those Marines talk about needing a few good men, they sure are consistent.

    Posted by: Kelly | Mar 13, 2007 11:18:52 AM

  11. He's such a twat. I grew up on military bases and I can assure you they do look the other way when someone is schtupping someone else's spouse.

    Posted by: Shane | Mar 13, 2007 11:20:05 AM

  12. Peter Pace (the modern day Adolf Hitler) instituted a Holocaust in Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of 600,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, including tens of thousands of children; destroyed the infrastructure for clean water and air; melted old and infirm people to death in Fallujah with White Phosphorous; lied repeatedly about the "progress" being made in Iraq; and all for the purpose of enabling the larceny of Iraqis oil for the benefit of W's cronies at Halliburton, ExxonMobil and Chevron.

    He is a monster. He is a modern day Hitler... and he has the audacity to talk about immorality while pointing his finger at someone other than himself...

    Would someone please put this man out of his misery!

    Posted by: Dan Cobb | Mar 13, 2007 11:34:30 AM

  13. Dan Cobb:

    such is the Devils way. He throws around condemnation and points out the "sins" of others so that perhaps his own intense evil is overlooked or missed.

    Posted by: forreal | Mar 13, 2007 12:09:44 PM

  14. so Andy...we need a dedicated pool thread to take bets on

    (a) How long before this guy gets busted outside a highway rest stop

    (b) What state

    (c) for the trifecta, which Christian re-closeting rehab he will enter

    Andy, this pool will make your site more popular than blingo!

    Posted by: bambambam | Mar 13, 2007 12:12:47 PM

  15. Forreal: Stop playing the Race Card—it's a losing hand.

    C. Dixon Osburn: SLDN does a lot of great work, in terms of counseling people caught in DADT's web, but you've been predicting the surrender of the Pentagon and the just-around-the-corner overturn of DADT as frequently as Pat Robertson has been predicting the coming of the Lord. And, worse, this is yet another impotent example of Revolution by Press Release that you and HRC and NGLTF and GLAAD so STUPIDLY and LAZILY and COWARDLY imagine actually accomplishes anything—it hasn't; it doesn't; it won't. Instead of wasting more paper and holding press conferences, get all of those medal winning out gay vets with signs in front of the Pentagon, in front of Pace's home, his church; in front of the White House—on the national news where Americans can SEE what we're talking about. "Apologize"? How old are you, Dixon? 12?

    This also is an object lesson for those who want to place the sole blame for DADT on Clinton. THIS is the type of powerful Neanderthal in uniform he was up against; except then it was Colon [sic] [sick] Powell [yes, Forreal, a Black bigot] who was in Pace's position as head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He's not just another homophobic nut—he's the most powerful man in uniform in the US.

    In short: am I the only one tired of simply TALKING about these public demonizations of us?

    Posted by: Leland | Mar 13, 2007 12:37:24 PM

  16. That dumb cracke...oh wait...race isn't applicable here? Oops,sorry...carry on.

    Posted by: Jason | Mar 13, 2007 1:08:04 PM

  17. PS: In what seems to be a pattern for Internet polls, the Troglodytes with a PC are ruling the day at AOL's poll about Pace's comments. At this moment, 65% of 264,000+ voters agree with him.

    Posted by: Leland | Mar 13, 2007 1:29:00 PM

  18. Leland I'm not surprised by those results.

    Harvard and a number of schools created a test to see what people's real reactions to gay people are. They found out that 68% had a negative view and are more likely to express their view about gay people than any other group.

    Try the test by clicking on the "Sexuality IAT" button.

    Posted by: Jack! | Mar 13, 2007 1:43:15 PM

  19. I agree with Chris. And the reality is that there will always be people who don't agree with the gay lifestyle, just as there will always be people who don't like Jews for some reason or another. If we don't allow them to express their personal opinions (however discriminatory), then how can we expect to express our own opinions (however liberal)? It's when discrimination leaks into the political and social channels that something has to be done. A personal opinion requires no apology, in my opinion. I mean, I wouldn't invite this guy over to dinner, but I'm not going to ask him to apologize. It's not worth it. If anything, it makes the gay and lesbian community look a little petty. In my opinion. Let's tackle an issue (the right to gay marriage, adoption, &tc) that affects how we live, not concern ourselves with how one man perceives us.

    Posted by: Ben | Mar 13, 2007 1:51:04 PM

  20. Leland

    guilty much? unlike my first post, the last post had nothing to do with race.

    does devil/evil = white? i guess to you it must.

    i anticipate another 12 paragraph response at some point. save it. although you seem to find the time (do you have a job)to comment on nearly EVERY posting i'm not nearly as impressed with the content as many here seem to be.

    ever heard the saying : "those with the most to say usually have nothing to say at all"?

    don't put your words in my mouth

    Posted by: forreal | Mar 13, 2007 2:00:29 PM

  21. Forreal pot calling leland kettle black

    forreal has a lot of hutzpah

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 2:20:53 PM

  22. PS


    List names of posters please otherwise it is all a red herring

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 2:22:17 PM

  23. Ben, the gay lifestyle? No, it's life.

    Posted by: Jack! | Mar 13, 2007 2:29:45 PM

  24. No matter how many gay rights marches, no matter how many warm pro-gay references in TV sitcoms, no matter how much gay groups complain, no matter how many homosexual channels appear on cable, homosexuality IS immoral. It's also revolting.

    Homosexuals weren't born that way any more than child molesters or bank robbers were born that way.

    About 3% of the population is homosexual at the most, yet we have to endure constant bombardment with the homosexual agenda by TV, newspapers, school lessons, people who are afraid of being labled a homophope. . . I for one of many are sick of it. From all the crap you hear, you'd think 50% are gay.

    Quit trying to make everyone except your perversion by shoving it down their throats as normal behavior.

    Sure, you have a right to be gay, and I have a right to find it sickening. Get used to it.

    General Pace spoke his mind. Good for him.

    Posted by: FedUp | Mar 13, 2007 3:16:37 PM

  25. Fedup: your mother sucks cock -- why can't I?

    Posted by: Tagg | Mar 13, 2007 3:59:50 PM

  26. « | 1 2 3 »

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