1. Miles says

    I’m less and less a fan of Hillary as a leader but during this campaign I’ve been consistently impressed with how good she looks. Especially her hair and makeup. Not that that should matter when picking a President.

    I’m really tired of people–especially gay people!–acting like gender-bending, or whatever you want to call it, is a shameful thing. It’s stupid and lazy and probably self-loathing.

    I am proud to have both masculine and feminine qualities highly developed within myself.

  2. Sasha says

    “I’m really tired of people–especially gay people!–acting like gender-bending, or whatever you want to call it, is a shameful thing. It’s stupid and lazy and probably self-loathing.”

    Well said Miles.

  3. Mark says

    Honestly Miles, how in the world would gender bending be considered self loathing? Can’t a person have fun with exploring another aspect of their psyche and express their true selves without judgement and prejudice? Does the recent murder of 14 year old Lawrence King teach you nothing?

    I’m really tired of people throwing around catch phrases without substantiation. Your intolerance is a shameful thing.

  4. noah says

    Argh! I really hate this kind of sexist crap that Gunn and his ilk toss at Clinton. She’s a politician. This is just sexist bullshit. Why the hell should a 60-year-old politician have to care if her fashion style pleases anyone other than herself? Men, gay and straight, have been terrorizing women for not adhering to some pathetic fashion sense that has nothing to do with women and every thing to do with how men perceive them.

    It’s a bit much for the Gunn of all people to criticize Clinton for being ‘mannish” given that he’s effeminate. What the hell? A gay man criticizing someone else because of lack of adherence to gender norms.

    Anytime a strong woman, politician or not, doesn’t follow the fashion trends and maximize her femininity, her sexuality is questioned, and she is automatically masculinized regardless of orientation.

    This is just sexist bullshit. I’ve never thought of Hillary Clinton as mannish looking. She looks like what she is, a 60-year-old woman. Frankly, as a presidential candidate, I’m glad that she’s more concerned with winning the election than looking good. What the hell, it’s 2007 and a smart woman still hast to worry about being judged about her clothes and not her brains or character. Pathetic!

    Clinton has plenty of flaws but attacking her because of her fashion choices in the middle of a presidential campaign just shows how much sexism is alive and well.

  5. Taylor says

    Mark, Miles is not saying that gender-bending is shameful or self-loathing. He said that the finding gender-bending shameful is self-loathing.

    He’s not being intolerant, he’s saying being intolerant is the problem.

  6. Miles says

    Mark, I did wonder after I posted my comment whether I could have been more clear.

    I meant that the shaming is self-loathing. I was trying to defend gender-bending.

  7. Michael Bedwell says

    Glad to see others are getting it, too. There’s Lady Gunn up there, her wrists whirling like a windmill, a trunk full of fake Louis Vuitton purses falls out every time she opens her mouth, and SHE’S calling Sen. Clinton confused about her gender?

    Hesitant to criticize a lame duck President with approval ratings lower than the water in Miss Gunn’s bidet? Could it be Miss Gunn’s a….wait for it….cocksucking Repug?

    Sexist, misogynistic homophobia from a homo is always the ugliest of all and so NOT “fashionable.” I suggest we nominate Miss Gunn to “Project Grow Up.” Fuck him and not in the way he probably has to pay to have done.

    Now approach the “Can’t You Take A Joke Trolls.”

  8. paul says

    If figures that dumbass Bush would be wearing Crocs. The absolute dumbest shoe choice ever!! I mean, these are plastic shoes made for gardening, now people wear them out and now they are even lined to keep you feet warm. STop the Instanity!!
    this is as bad when people wore their Addias sandals with socks. yikes!!!
    Leave Hilliary alone…my God, what is the women supposed to wear? i think she looks age appropriate. she isn’t exactly svelt.

  9. says

    Make her wear a suit and she’s mannish. Make her wear a dress and she’s a weak woman who could never be elected. As a society, we need to stop giving a crap about what our female politicians wear because – guess what – we don’t give a crap what the men wear. It’s blatant sexism to analyze Hillary’s attire. She’s running for President, not Make Me a Super Model.

  10. yeahokay says

    and if hillary wore pretty feminine clothes then she would be torn to pieces and called a female who only cares for how she looks instead of the issues. Women cannot win in this world.

  11. yeahokay says

    and if hillary wore pretty feminine clothes then she would be torn to pieces and called a female who only cares for how she looks instead of the issues. Women cannot win in this world.

  12. Jack says

    It’s really a Catch 22 situation. Hillary’s got thighs from hell and gankles. Pant suits are her solution to camouflage her legs. I agree she should use the fashion resources available in NYC.

  13. noah says

    I think Gunn’s age is showing. He’s from that generation that hates women who are powerful and secure in their identity and don’t need to suck up to would-be fashion gurus or patriarchial notions of what women should be like.

    On the one hand, Gunn benefits as a gay man from the changes in attitudes that allow men like him to have societal acceptance. On the other hand, Gunn is all too eager to debase women who do not adhere to outdated modes of thinking. Too bad Gunn is such a hypocrite that he can’t see how he is part of the problem that hurts people.

    Last week, we read about young Larry King who was tormented and murdered for not adhering to gender standards. Here’s Tim Gunn acting as a gender bully himself. Yeah, Gunn isn’t packing lead to do harm, he’s “just” using words, helping to entrench attitudes and beliefs that the morality and gender norm police use to brainwash children into becoming monsters.

    Gunn could learn a lot from Charles Barkley about tolerance and acceptance.

  14. rascal says

    I don’t know, guys. I think you may be missing the possibility that Tim is just playing the practical adviser–precisely what he is paid to do. Like it or not, the vast majority of the electorate would probably characterize as “mannish” Hillary’s fashion choices, too. We can all agree that such gender characterizations are retrograde and even potentially harmful, but one of the first rules of politics is that you have to deal with things the way they are before you can hope to facilitate change. Tim never claimed to be a thought leader on gender politics, and I think it’s misguided to demand that he be. The man needs to cut to the chase, as it were, when discussing issues of cultural perception vis-a-vis clothing choice, and that is precisely what he has done.

  15. Michael Bedwell says

    Oh, fucking puhleeeze, Rascal. “I think she’s confused about what her gender is….the suits are probably made out of Kevlar”—if that’s just “practical advice” then the bullets shot into 15-yr. old Lawrence King’s head apparently because he was “confused about what [his] gender [was]” were just air kisses.

    Laura Bush appears in more pants suits than Rosie O’Donnell. As the Repugs focus group EVERYTHING, I’m confidant research shows that the majority of voters have no problem with women in pants suits.

    In any case, Gunn was perpetuating sexism and gender identity nonsense. What did he say about Obama? That he looked too “uppity” in those nice suits? “Shouldn’t he be wearing a loin cloth under a dashiki? I think he’s confused about what race he is.”

    As someone else astutely observed, he’s one of those shallow queens who have benefited from the activism and sacrifices of others while still living in and perpetuating an Airy Fairy cotton candyass world. We all like pretty things, including clothes, but Bravo has become the Castrati Network, pimping stereotypical, nonthreatening ho-mo-sechuals to the world. Gunn is a cypher, design degrees notwithstanding, and Sen. Clinton, for all her faults, has more of real value to offer the world in one millimeter of her Kevlar pantsuit than Gunn has in his entire Silly Savage life. She’s already in history books whereas most of what he’s done will end up in huge rag bales in fabric recyling factories.

  16. rascal says

    Michael: You’ve succeeded admirably in proving that highly simplistic arguments are indeed most effective using gross exaggerations, but you’ve also proven that you missed my point entirely by regurgitating a set of incongruous and illogical expectations that some here on the board feel appropriate to assign to Mr. Gunn. Tim Gunn would no more put himself in a cultural or historical context with Hillary Clinton than he would with George Washington–you’re the one who is proposing that bit of ridiculousness. And, I don’t think the point is pantsuit or not pantsuit, it’s not as binary as that. It’s about the type, style, cut, color, adornments, etc. of the damn pantsuit. I could argue that the gender comment was unfortunate. But I could also argue that Tim tells it like it is–not from the standpoint of the politically-correct 21st Century enlightened gay man–but from the standpoint of a fashion adviser who knows what the public thinks.

  17. nic says


    it’s better to be simplistic than simple minded. i’d prefer a powerful woman over an effete fop any day — pantsuit or no. fuck Gunn and the rest of the self-cherishing, oh-so-precious dandies like him.

  18. larrish says

    dandies? is this a takes one to know one example, Rascal?

    Obviously, Gunn was prompted by Conan to answer the question. He does have a show called Tim Gunn’s House of Style – sounds like Conan was almost poking fun at tim, asking for his expertise.

    I’m sorry, but someone who is in the public eye should know better. People are vain, which is why we are reading this crap anyways. Even Bush wears armani suits – you think he is shopping off the rack at TJ Maxx? Obviously, not – look at the socks. Additionally, this person is going to represent america. I want a forward thinking person; not some relic of the baby boomer generation, which is clearly the fashion sense she is going for. None of you people would go into a job interview sportin’ ugly, so why should we lower our standards? First impressions last a lifetime.

    If you think fashion isn’t important in this world, you are very wrong. dressing the part gets you the job in this society, as well as any westernized culture. Looking like a tattered rag from the past forces people to draw conclusions that your ideas are from the stone age as well. Last time I saw some bitch wearing Hillary gear was on the Flintstones, and even Betty was chic!

  19. rascal says

    I see…. So a masculine woman is preferable to a feminine man? And a feminine man is “funny” if he observes the masculinity of a woman? I think you all ought to examine your own gender biases and expectations before you criticize the same in others.

    And to extend my defense of Timm Gunn yet further, I might offer that what he most likely meant, and should have probably articulated more clearly, was not that Hillary is in fact confused about what her gender is, but that she may be perpetuating a subliminal impression of gender confusion within the public perception (and whether this is right or wrong is–again–not the issue here) that is probably not doing her any favors.

  20. Jimmyboyo says

    Banne and your faux news outrage

    Did you grow up as a black woman?

    HELL dude, she was born only 4 months after 4 little black girls lost their lives in the 16th street baptist chuch bombing in 1963. Just one of the pivitol moments during the civilrights era.

    I you don’t understand how many african americans could grow up not being particularly happy and proud with the country they were born in then go back to the coutry club and enjoy your tea an crumpets with the other wasps.

  21. Pugzz says

    I think you have all lost your sense of humor. Tim was not being evil…he was just being silly. Let’s just be happy and full of hope that Hillary or Obamam could be in the White House next year. Hoooooray!

  22. BrokebackBob says

    Whatever she wears, Hilary is better looking than whoever she’s with most of the time.
    Tim is so over, on so many levels.
    I think while he’s telling everyone to “make it work”, he hasn’t noticed that he hasn’t.
    Hilary is about as mannish as Tim.

  23. says

    Jimmyboyo – this has nothing to do with whether African Americans have a reason to be down on their historical treatment in this country. It has to do with the fact that most prominent African Americans would never stand up and say they are not proud of their country. Martin Luther King, Jr. certainly loved this nation enough to believe that it would set straight the wrongs it had done in the past.

    And let’s face it, Michelle Obama is EXACTLY the type of person who has benefitted from strong black Americans who came before her. And if she is not for that reason alone proud of her country, then she should at least know better than to get up during this already tumultuous election season and provide the Republicans with just more ammunition to use against her husband in the coming months.

    The point really was that so many blogs refuse to say one negative thing about Barack or his wife, but have absolutely no issues posting every article or mention that comes out that demonize Hillary or Bill Clinton. Unlike Michelle Obama, I remember the 70s and 80s and I remember the hope and change that came in the 90s with the Clintons. Just because she and her husband refuse to admit that the Clintons were saviors to the Democratic Party in the 90s doesn’t make it untrue.

  24. Jimmyboyo says


    You can’t comment on Michelle’s statements because

    -You did not grow up as a black woman in america being born just 4 months after the bombing of the 16th street baptist church which killed 4 little black girls

    – you did not grow up as a balck female in the south side of chicago

    – you did not find yourself dismissed at princeton because you were both a woman and black despite being supremely inteligent enough to gradate summa cum laude

    – you did not find yourself dismised at harvard because you were both a female and black despite enterig Harvard as a Princeton Graduate summa cum laude.

    – You must have convenently forgotten that we have suffered 8 years under bush cheney which has seen the majority of america not proud of the USA

    Clintn has many things to praise without you so desperately trying to stir a tempest in a tea cup.

    Do your prefered candidate a favor and highlight the many wondrful things about clinton. Otherwise you sound like an out of touch wasp sipping tea and eating crumpets at you country club.

  25. Jimmy says

    LARRISH: Whatever it is you’re smoking, get rid of it. Bush wears Armani? Who told you? All Presidents have their suits specially made by a Washington-based tailor. Fool!

  26. patrick nyc says

    ‘It’s a bit much for the Gunn of all people to criticize Clinton for being ‘mannish” given that he’s effeminate. What the hell? A gay man criticizing someone else because of lack of adherence to gender norms.’ —– NOAH

    Well said sir. I hate this prissy Queen, and I have many great Queens in my circle, he could not wash their panties. He is a tired old bitter queen. Who lacks the balls of a toddler, or Barbra Bush.

    For him to praise Pelosi and her ‘style’, who gives a fu@k what she wears, does he know how spineless that woman is, how little she has done since she took over the number three spot in the country? Get a clue you douche bag.

  27. michael says

    this is absurd. everyone knows you dress for the job you want, not the job you have, and for the past 200+ years, the job sen. clinton wants has been held by men with diverse fashion sense. hillary’s wardrobe is certainly not above reproach, but this kind of sexist circumspection is despicable. the leader of the free world does not conduct business in a couture gown. tim, i love you, honey, but this was a dumb remark.

  28. says

    I think that the word “mannish” was very, very badly chosen, sexist and transphobic and all sorts of things. But I love his wry comment about the Crocs. Tim Gunn is the master of loading a lot of meaning into a few words, whether as encouragement or disparagement. I don’t see how he could ever be called bitter or shallow, given that his body of work (his writing, his new show) are so thoroughly about encouraging people to love themselves – even on Project Runway, everything he says is sharp and accurate and full of compassion at once.

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