04/17/2008
ABC Criticized for Lack of Substance at Democratic Debate
ABC is being roundly criticized for the line of questioning at last night's Democratic debate, with 11,032 comments on ABC's website, the majority of which criticize the network for not dealing with substantive issues.
Above, a clip of some of the questions (these are questions only, not answers), via Crooks and Liars and Pam's House Blend (she also has a transcript of these questions) regarding electability, Reverend Jeremiah Wright (3 questions!), Clinton's Bosnia trip, flag lapel pins, and radicals from the 1970's. Below, Talking Points Memo's round-up:
A transcript of the debate can be found here.
I didn't watch the debate, but I'm not upset I didn't at this point. I'll add any interesting clips I come across to this post as they come in.
AFTER THE JUMP, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos are turned on by an audience who wants to know, 'where's the beef?' as they go to yet another commercial break...
The HuffPo writes: "Reflecting what seemed to be the main consensus of the night - that ABC botched this debate, big time - Charlie Gibson tells the crowd there will be one more, superfluous commercial break of the night and is subsequently jeered."
Posted 7:53 AM EST by Andy Towle in Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Election 2008, Hillary Clinton, News | Permalink
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Derrick
You know, I probably was repeating a right wing talking point.
After you asked, I tried to look it up on the internet and couldn't find anything.
Sorry to Hillary, George Stephenopolous, and Hillary supporters if I indeed was repeating some old right wing shit. Even us obamaheads can admit that the right threw a lot of shit at the Clintons.
This debate between which candidate should lead us is in house and it is a good debate.
But I will defend Hillary and Bill against Rush limbaugh types any day. She might not be my candidate but she is part of my family.
Zeke
:-)
I also want the fairness doctrine brought back.
Can you imagine some right wing religous nut railing against gays on TV and federal law forcing equal time for a pro gay xtian from the UCC, a Jewish rabbi to fairly balance the discussion on religion, and an atheist to counterbalance on the whole god thing to begin with.
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Apr 17, 2008 1:04:30 PM
DAVENYC, Hilary is not your fag hag! Get over it.
Posted by: Jason | Apr 17, 2008 1:08:25 PM
As someone who generally tries to be fair despite your stated preference I'm very disappointed Jimmy that you are feeding the Hillary Hate Industry by claiming that she called George S. a faggot. I'm not saying she didn't, though I doubt it. I'm just saying that documentation is appropriate whenever such a serious charge is made about anyone.
In any case, anyone who thinks George is a Clinton fan or opposed to Obama simply hasn't been watching him moderate his own Sunday morning show on ABC where he consistently highlights any bad news for Sen. Clinton and mostly ignores or underplays anything bad for Obama.
Plus, he frequently has on DNC power player and super delegate Donna Brazile and totally plays along with her "I've not decided" charade when the truth is Obama can't defecate without pulling her head out of his ass first. If elected he should make her Secretary of the Navy for helping steer the shameful Swift Boating of the Clintons as racists. But then Brazile, who as his campaign manager, helped Gore lose, is not new to playing the race card. She once extorted rehires of some surplus DNC employees after screeching that they were only let go because they were black.
The debate may have missed the mark in many ways but deserves accolades for being one of the few not to offer Barack a pillow. His face was an illustrated textbook on "Indignation, Defensiveness, Anger, and Just Plain Being Pissed Off."
Dear Sen. Obama: the Republicans are coming! The Republicans are coming!
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Apr 17, 2008 1:29:53 PM
Our posts crossed in the ethernet. Thank you for your apology, Jimmy! :- )
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Apr 17, 2008 1:31:54 PM
Haha. Sorry your candidate finally got grilled. Boohoo.
Why am I not shocked the Obamamites are in a complete tizzy at this seemingly unfair treatment of their candidate by the media? I'm glad the media finally pulled his dick out of their mouths long enough to ask him a tough question.
If you think Rev. Wright, lapel pins and Ayers aren't legitimate issues to voters and together paint a pretty clear picture of how Obama will be painted between now and November, then you're all delusional. And we'll have the misfortune of another 4 - 8 years of Republican rule in the White House.
Posted by: Banne | Apr 17, 2008 1:32:30 PM
Michael Bedwell
:-)
Banne, I am all for a good grilling..............on ISSUES! like iraq, the economy, the environment, US jobs, the food supply, terrorism, education, gays, etc
A cheap flag pin that osama Bin laden himself could buy at any 7-11 and wear 24/7 is NOT an issue. It is crap.
All polls of voters show the top 2 issues are
1- iraq
2- The economy
They switch places depending on the poll but the top 2 are those 2 and nothing but those 2 real issues
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Apr 17, 2008 1:37:03 PM
People in my building must have thought that I had lost my mind because I was SCREAMING with anger over this sham of a debate! It was absolutely nauseating to watch and ABC should be publicly taken to task. It reminded me of NBC moron Tim Russert's inane questioning of Obama on Farrakhan, but much worse.
Then Clinton has the fucking gall to say that Obama's associations need "deeper investigation", but when questioned about her outright LIE about Bosnia, she pooh-poohs it as some kinda brain fart!
Now more than ever, GO OBAMA '08!!!
Posted by: soulbrotha | Apr 17, 2008 1:42:51 PM
Wait, so Leland is posting as Michael Bedwell again? When they start talking to each other, you know the bitch done finally fell outta her rocker.
Posted by: crispy | Apr 17, 2008 1:42:52 PM
You mean Sybil Bedwell-Frances?
Posted by: 24play | Apr 17, 2008 1:58:03 PM
Oh poor baby Obama - he was not cuddled and given a blankie this time and people are not liking it.
The REAL issue is how unprepared Obama was. These issues have been in the media and he should have had a good response but no. This is the beginning of the end for Dems taking back the WH. The repubs are going to run all over his campaign. Weak, weak, weak.
Posted by: Mike | Apr 17, 2008 2:19:39 PM
MIKE
So the trotting out of a supposed Pennsylvania voter to ask Hillary Clinton about Tuzla with the admonishment that she'd lost her vote wasn't pointless melodrama but rather a great thing??!!??
It sucked all the way around. Yes it appears the suckfest was heavily tilted towards sucking for Obama but there were deffinetly sucky crap moments pulled on Hillary by ABC as well.
Tuzla Bosnia snipper fire sh@t has been played out in the media. It will change nobody's mind at this point.
To even bring it up while ignoring real issues is bad enough, but to have brought it up in such an over the top melodramatic way was pure crap.
Pure crap thrown and Hillary by ABC.
Are you sure you liked the debate as much as you earlier claimed?
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Apr 17, 2008 2:28:19 PM
"and" should read "at"
pure crap thrown at Hillary by ABC
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Apr 17, 2008 2:38:39 PM
The debate was a disgrace. I tried to leave a comment at abcnews.com earlier and the site was unreachable.
Ultimately though, I think Obama is staying above the fray. His comment to Hillary that she took the wrong lessons from the cookie episode in '92 got me to cast a vote with dollars at barackobama.com.
Posted by: Philip | Apr 17, 2008 2:41:46 PM
I want DAVENYC or anyone else to explain to me how it is that they feel that Obama has proven himself to be unable to withstand the "hard questions" or the "Republican mudslinging" in the general election when he survived two of the biggest media feeding frenzies that ANY candidate has faced this year and come out the other side STRONGER than he was before the onslaught began.
I would also like for someone to explain to me how Senator Clinton will be BETTER equipped to withstand these attacks and win in November when she can't even manage to get through the attack's on OBAMA (which she joined in) without sinking further in the polls (national and Pennsylvania) and at the same time having the number of people who think she's dishonest skyrocket (based not on what Obama's said about her but based on SHE'S said about him)?
Please explain to me how this adds up.
Let's also keep in mind that the Republicans haven't unleashed their barrage on Senator Clinton because they WANT her to be the nominee so that they can unleash it all on her in the general. There is absolutely NO benefit to them unleashing the hounds on her now. That's why they are digging up all of this stuff on Obama now. I think they will have shot their wad by the time the general gets here and the fact that they can't make anything stick to him is making them VERY nervous.
Posted by: Zeke | Apr 17, 2008 3:02:43 PM
LOL@CRISPY & 24PLAY:
No one on this earth can "read" or "throw shade" like a gay man. Ruthless!
Y'all need to stop. Just stop. Remember your Christian upbringings! Leland Francis & Mr Bedwell have both promised to vote for Obama in November. There's no conflict between the two entities...unless they don't know each other (all of a sudden I'm seeing a young Sally Field in my mind). Unfortunately, they may have persuaded hundreds of Towleroad visitors not to vote for Barack. It's BANNE, MIKE &DAVEYNYC who worry me. They actually hate Barack. Why? He can't help it if he's beautiful. Well, fellas, it's either Barack or John McCain--that'll be your choice.
DAVEYNYC, you keepa' prayin', brotha'.
Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Apr 17, 2008 3:16:57 PM
"digging up all this stuff on Obama"?
One doesn't need a shovel to expose Obama's weaknesses. You just have to be willing to see what's mostly been there all along. Diamonds [or fool's gold, depending on how one looks at it] all over the ground. But the media have been in high See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Say No Evil mode for so long that straying from it now can so easily—and irrationally—be denounced as being unfair. "What do you MEAN Obama's not PERFECT?!"
Based on what I wrote above about the velvet glove hand job George Stephanopoulos has been giving Obama for the last year, I was shocked that the question about his friendship with the Weathermen bombers came from George even if he did also pillory Hillary about being "trustworthy" and Bosnia.
RE the latter, are there statements from the pollsters, Zeke, that "the number of people who think she's dishonest skyrocket [is] based not on what Obama's said about her but based on SHE'S said about him" or is that your interpretation?
Having seen only a few minutes of the debate, I have no opinion on it overall or the performance of the moderators [while TOTALLY agreeing that all future debates SHOULD be scripted by a respected nonpartisan group like LWV].
But we do smell a familiar theme: those who don't like the message but can't dispute it frequently try to shoot the messenger instead. For a high profile example, check out the cold doghouse black writer and media star Tavis Smiley now finds himself in for having failed to be willingly assimilated by the Obama Borg [or as 24 Play once put it, to "get with the program"].
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Apr 17, 2008 3:34:46 PM
Well, Derrick, in this forum, if you don't throw shade and read these posters like a drag queen who has lost her wig and broke a heel and eye liner running, they will trounce all over you in a shrill, negative tone that's uncalled for in a civil debate! I think that those who hate Obama, HRC included, have a much bigger problem and its not that she is geatting mauled by him in the polls and with voters, and, I'm sure that MCCain will be more than happy to help them with it. None of the HRC fans, or herself cares about this country, its all about them, and, sadly, in the end, we will all suffer with another 4 years of a dimwit just like the current ones in office, disgusting.
Posted by: Kevin | Apr 17, 2008 3:40:01 PM
It's being reported that as of this morning Obama has had a net gain of 7 superdelegates over the last week whereas Senator Clinton has had a net loss of one.
It's really time for the Democrats to face the reality of the situation and come together behind our prohibitive nominee. If we want to win in November we better start acting like a united party now. Senator Clinton, love her or hate her, is moving in the wrong direction in every indicator of her ability to win the nomination; much less the general election. That reality may be hard for some people to swallow but I can't imagine how anyone living in the real world can see any way that she can pull this off.
It's time to take a deep breath, get behind our nominee and start focusing our time, energy and anger at our true opponents who want to continue with eight more years of the Bush administration, which will certainly include appointing at least one new Supreme Court justice that would very well tip the balance for our life time.
Posted by: Zeke | Apr 17, 2008 3:44:55 PM
It's time to get with the program.
Posted by: 24play | Apr 17, 2008 3:54:30 PM
I'm praying Derrick- but I DO have faith in the intelligence of my fellow Americans. There's no need to be scared or hateful of Hillary..yes she may be a woman and yes she may not be what the majority of Americans think a woman should be..she's not scared of a man, she's not afraid to get her hands dirty and she's not afraid to fight to be President of a country she loves so much. Obama lacks moral fiber, he lacks ideas that can be planned and executed. This man is not an innovator..he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. If anyone can withstand what the republicans can dish out-it's Hillary, she's done it for years. God bless Hillary and her unwillingness to stop fighting, to stop caring. Don't be scared of her, embrace her. She's not just "a woman", she's not her husband, she's a proud American and a fighter and she WILL fight for us, you just have to let her...Hillary '08!!!
Posted by: daveynyc | Apr 17, 2008 4:19:41 PM
The Kool Aid obviously comes in both flavors.
Posted by: 24play | Apr 17, 2008 4:25:14 PM
Gotta love the smell of bullshit.
Posted by: Silverskreen | Apr 17, 2008 5:00:06 PM
Yeah, but wait till you smell the elephant shit, that's more smelly than two donkeys.
Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Apr 17, 2008 5:07:37 PM
AMEN
Derrick
I'll take the bullshit of two donkeys kicking each other in the head anyday over the smell of elephant bullshit
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Apr 17, 2008 5:12:28 PM
Please, when was the last time anyone in the last 8 years, on either side, has done something that wasn't at least tainted in crap.
Posted by: silverskreen | Apr 17, 2008 5:19:42 PM