08/12/2008
Gay Mormon Group Confronts LDS Leaders Via Press Conference
Put off by the cancellation of a meeting with Latter Day Saints church leaders, the gay Mormon group Affirmation yesterday held a press conference in its place, where they addressed a few of the requests they had planned to ask for in the meeting:
"Affirmation wants a female church leader to address mothers to let them know they're not responsible for their children's sexuality. Melson said guilt is a 'huge problem' for mothers of gay children. The group also wants to meet with a member of the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Twelve and to invite a general authority to speak at its 2009 conference. Affirmation wants to work with the church to develop resource materials for bishops to better and more consistently deal with gay and lesbian members who seek counseling. The group also intended to give a letter to President Monson concerning future discussions, for which he could give as much or as little publicity as he preferred."
LDS leaders responded quickly, and were critical of the group's actions:
"The issues surrounding same-gender attraction deserve careful attention, not public posturing. It has always been the intent of the church to engage in an open and honest discussion with Affirmation leaders to listen to their concerns. When the church was originally approached by Affirmation, church officials offered a much earlier meeting date. The meeting was put on hold until August at Affirmation's request. The church asked for the same courtesy as it hires a new director of Family Services, a position crucial to this conversation...It appears from Affirmation's actions today that it has opted for a public rather than private exchange."
Gay support group lists requests to LDS Church [deseret news]
Posted 10:04 AM EST by Andy Towle in Mormon, News, Religion | Permalink
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These guys really need to move on with their lives, there is no way they will ever be able to rationalize with a cult or its leaders. The only time they will be accepted is when God "speaks" to one of the old men who runs the show and tells them that hate isn't a family value, like he did when they had to be told racism wasn't one either about blacks.
Posted by: Jed | Aug 12, 2008 10:16:20 AM
... or when "God" decided polygamy wasn't cool. Which was right after the U.S. outlawed it.
God likes to kid the Mormons: "You guys hate blacks! PSYCHE! They're okay! Let them in the church leadership!"
Posted by: jeffy | Aug 12, 2008 10:28:14 AM
I've never really taken Mormonism seriously, but when you hear a phrase like "the Quorum of the Twelve," it just sounds ridiculous. And a bit like Battlestar Galactica.
Posted by: crispy | Aug 12, 2008 10:30:52 AM
Isn't "Quorum of the Twelve" the new James Bond flick?
Posted by: Scott B. | Aug 12, 2008 10:38:37 AM
LDS leaders are terrified of "public posturing", as they realize how their sophmoric views on sexuality and love look ridiculous when presented on the world's stage.
Posted by: John Bisceglia | Aug 12, 2008 10:47:43 AM
It took me a long time and strength to leave the Catholic Church, mainly because of strong family ties. I agree with JED above, these people need to move on, acceptance of gays is the least of the problems this cult has.
Posted by: patrick nyc | Aug 12, 2008 10:51:47 AM
They should be demanding that Andrew Christian design and market sacred Mormon undergarments. Then they'd really be able to fully integrate their Mormon and gay selves.
Think of it: Butt-shaping, Christianity-affirming magical Mormon panties!
Posted by: 24play | Aug 12, 2008 11:08:22 AM
Crispy's right about the Battlestar Galactica similarity. I believe a Mormon penned the original series.
Posted by: Brandon | Aug 12, 2008 11:13:07 AM
I kind of admire them - but not really - for wanting to change the church from inside. I wouldn't have bothered wanting to be part of a group that wouldn't accept me as I am.
Posted by: SJ | Aug 12, 2008 11:21:36 AM
the similarities between mormonism and battlestar galactica aren't accidental as the show is based on the book of mormon (i used to have a roomate who called the show "mormons in space.").
the gay mormons are as sad as the log cabin folks - quixotically trying to get into the good graces of an entity that wishes they would just disappear.
Posted by: alguienn | Aug 12, 2008 11:52:45 AM
John B.,
The LDS could not care less about looking sophomoric. This is about their religious beliefs.
Gay people have to stop pretending that homophobia is not a normal part of life. People who live in big liberal cities or states don't experience life as millions of others do. For a large percentage of gay people in the U.S. and around the world, the attitude of the LDS is normal.
There is a reason why the Republicans have been very successful using homophobia to win elections: a lot people still hate gays or see them as being unnatural or worse.
The Catholic Church, the LDS, a large number of Protestant denominations all view homosexuality as a sin. Those are facts. Wishing those facts to go away doesn't work.
The LDS is a conservative church. They did not allow African-descended people to take part in the Church until the 1970s when faced with loss of tax exempt status. Until then, Church theology held that anyone with one drop of African blood was black and unworthy.
While I would like nothing more for all religions to be accepting and loving, that's not the case. The LDS is no different that the Catholic Church in its stand. Therefore, it is not fair to single them out as worse than others.
(From a theological point of view, I am happy to disagree with the LDS and its teachings. I don't believe that God, Jesus and his brother Lucifer came to Earth from planet Kolob.)
Too much of the focus on the Anglican/Episcopal church problems with gay issues is on a couple of African bishops. This makes for "sexy" journalism because it paints the black guys as bigots. Nice story BUT it misses the point that the majority of Anglicans/Episcopalians who are against gay inclusions are white. They control the Church's purse strings. They are fomenting the split. It's easier for them to remain on sidelines.
Fred Barnes, the sleazy Republican operative/pundit who recently implored John McCain to ramp up the anti-gay rhetoric is a leader in the anti-gay Anglican/Episcopal Church split.
Sorry for the ramble but these comments that trivialize religion and the passion behind the politics, along with well organized campaigns, are naive and dangerous.
P.S.
Why mock Mormons for wearing "magic underwear" when followers of other religions wear skull caps, play with beads on a string, etc.?
Posted by: noah | Aug 12, 2008 12:41:31 PM
I support this group in speaking truth to power, and in Utah the LDS church is power. Their ideas are good, let our mom's off the hook, it's not their fault. Also since the entire clergy is volunteer and drawn locally from every neighborhood, city, rural town and jungle outpost education about homosexuality would be very helpful. I adopted atheism as a teen, but it took me a long time to come out to my family about that, even longer to come out gay. It baffles me why people still love their religions even when they are scorned and abused by them, but they do. I wish them well. Churched with open policies and a place for gay members will do much less damage to young gays coming to terms with their sexuality. As things are now, none of us grow up without scars.
Posted by: Rikard | Aug 12, 2008 1:23:35 PM
Having once been very religious myself, I respect the original goals of such groups as Affirmation. And no one unfamiliar with the degree to which Mormonism permeates every aspect of its members lives should scoff at their emotional imperative. While I haven't followed closely the various approaches of its leaders over the years, I can say this:
1. It has been hoping for a change in heart of Mormon oligarchs for 31 years.
2. The ONLY change of any significance during those three decades has been criticism by church spokesman of "conversion" "therapies" that it once firmly endorsed such as electro-shock and violent nausea-inducing drugs.
BUT, at the same time, they expect troubled faithful Mormons to seek counseling ONLY from LDS Family Services which is required to tell them that you cannot be a good Mormon and gay [among other moldy dogmas such as refusing to facilitate single parent adoptions]. AND, because such therapies are not FORBIDDEN by the Church they say they can't be responsible for their use from any LDS Family Services practitioner.
3. Unlike leaders of gay affinity groups in some other denominations, these current Affirmation leaders are in no way challenging the authenticity of the Church's teachings on gays. Essentially, their goal is simply to beg the Church to choose prettier words when telling its gay members that they're sick, Goddamned freaks breaking their families hearts.
4. LDS President Monson, whom they want "to give a letter" sent his own letter in June to be read to every Mormon congregation in California on, ironically, Gay Pride Sunday, that said that the Church's position on marriage is "unequivocal." In Affirmation's own summary, the letter instructed Church "members to fight for passage of ...Proposition 8 which would define marriage as being between one man and one woman, ending the civil marriage equality that Californians now enjoy. Mormons in California are being instructed by Church leaders to give both time and financial contributions to the campaign."
The letter closed with [emphasis mine], "Our best efforts are REQUIRED to preserve the sacred institution of marriage."
In short, were I an Affirmation member I would be demanding that my leaders wake up and smell the "funeral potatoes" [church potlucks, particularly after funerals, are even more ubiquitous in Mormon culture than others] and GROW SOME. The same man you're FANTASIZING about ever meeting, your Church is formally and financially a part of the "holy war" on gays not just in California but everywhere.
Studies of successful change movements show that both discussion AND direct action are necessary to effect such change and you're being rebuffed for the former and, to the best of my knowledge, personally shunning the latter. Your current approach sounds almost identical to that of "homophile" groups in the 1950s. Such "accomodationist" tactics were necessary then but there is no excuse for this approach half a century later.
You shouldn't be singing, "Don't Be Cruel" but "We're Not Gonna Take It." And you shouldn't be wasting your time trying to talk with the Trolodytes [even gracing them with "privacy" for Christ's sake!!!] but talking LOUDER and MORE publicly to gay Mormons telling them that there is NOTHING wrong with them! If you can't convince a rich gay/gay-friendly Mormon to fund it, deny your ties to the Church long enough to pay for a full-page ad saying that in Salt Lake papers [if they'll print it] and "USA Today."
Posted by: Leland Frances | Aug 12, 2008 1:44:19 PM
Gay Mormons. Wait, what? Leave the mormon church, they don't want you and you shouldn't want them. ugh.
Posted by: paulwho | Aug 12, 2008 2:03:37 PM
"Why mock Mormons for wearing "magic underwear" when followers of other religions wear skull caps, play with beads on a string, etc.?"
Oh, we happily make fun of them too.
Posted by: crispy | Aug 12, 2008 2:06:03 PM
Even some Amish people choose to leave that religion/way of life and live a life of their own choosing. If they can do it, certainly Mormans, Catholics and people raised in other religions/cults can do it. Why would you want to live your life according to tenets you do not hold to be true? Kinda like choosing to marry a woman when you're just dying to suck a big old...
Posted by: dezboy | Aug 12, 2008 4:53:32 PM
This is going to make you all crazy, but the LDS Church does not hate gays. Their viewpoint that active sexuality outside marriage is what it is and will never change, but it does not mean that they hate gays. It is doctrinally based.
Speaking as a fully active member of the the LDS church, you need to understand that the core of this church's teachings is love, regardless of the details of your life. The church teaches over and over again that we are to accept and to love EVERYONE.
That the members and leaders of the church are uncomfortable with homosexuality is hardly a surprise. You have to understand that most members do not know what to make of it, much less understand it, and many of their attitudes about homosexuality have grown out of the hyper-conservative nature of the culture in Utah, not out of some church policy that says, "we hate the gays."
Remember also that the members of this church are as prone to weakness and fault as any other humans on the planet. It is not a church for the perfect (no such person exists), but rather a place for the "weak and simple" to gain an eternal perspective on life and to strengthen their divine natures.
My suggestion is to reach out to anyone you know who is LDS and help them understand the issues of your own life. Many may not ever understand homosexuality, or ever try to understand. But, that doesn't mean you shouldn't befriend them and try. The members of the church should also be doing the same with anyone they know who is gay.
Hopefully, some meeting of the minds may come to pass.
I have spent a considerable amount of time working with the gay community in Utah (which, contrary to popular belief, is quite large) and have come to love this terrific community of people as much as I love the members of my faith.
I have been priviledged to know the leaders of Utah Pride, the LGBT center, and the publisher of Utah's gay and lesbian magazine. All are wonderful people and make great contributions to our community.
So, I think it is a little unfair to characterize the general membership of the LDS church as haters of the gay community. I simply think that most members do not know enough about the gay community to really understand your lives.
I believe that Affirmation is on the right road in terms of educating the leadership of the LDS church. If they can get past this disagreement about the meeting, hopefully their agenda items can be brought to the church leadership, especially the issues of guilt and education for the church's bishops.
But, please remember that many of us in the church are fully engaged with the gay community and wish only to strengthen that friendship in the hopes that better understanding will exist.
I welcome anyone who wishes to openly talk with me about it. Feel free to send me an email. I am eager for an open discussion to continue.
Posted by: Utah Boy | Aug 13, 2008 1:45:11 PM
As one who spent the first 33 years of my life as a mega-devout Mormon, I disagree with Utah Boy that the mormon church is based on love. It is based on control and perpetuating itself, and it disguises that agenda in loving poetic language.
There is ZERO chance that the mormon church will ever change its basic thinking on homosexuality because their core beliefs are deeply wound up in the concept of a father+mother family. They will never change. I think Affirmation's goals are admirable: to get the church to stop telling mothers that it's their fault their kids are gay, and to stop tearing up families by telling lies about gay people.
I would be happy to maintain a live-and-let-live attitude toward my former religion if they would be happy to adopt the same attitude toward me and other gay people. But they are active opponents of gay rights and pour millions of dollars into campaigning against against gay marriage. They are the enemy -- make no mistake.
Posted by: Former Mormon | Aug 13, 2008 6:22:04 PM
As a former Rlds member, I'm glad to see the Mormons are beginning to address the issues. I'm impressed with the response of LDS leadership as well as the initiative of Affirmation. I hope both groups are able to keep a level head about this and continue the pursuit of discussion. Maybe a meeting behind closed doors would put the LDS leadership on a less 'defensive' side of this issue. Afterwards, what happens behind closed doors can come to surface in the general population. But, there's a big picture here and both sides seem to be willing to approach it; it will take some patience. Good for both groups!
Posted by: Scott | Aug 14, 2008 10:23:11 AM
Your kind thoughts, Scott, are charitable but unrealistic. The principal motive of the LDS heirarchy is self-preservation, and that motive will not be mitigated by a closed-door meeting. Similar to the Roman Catholic Curia, the LDS general authorities believe they are protecting God's pure way of thinking from corruption by outsiders. It's irreparable, and not up for "discussion".
Posted by: Former Mormon | Aug 14, 2008 5:02:23 PM