1. Jon B says

    Great Job Everyone!!! I’m a native NYer, but I’m in DC right now. Wish I could have been there with everyone. I’ll be at the national protest here in DC on Saturday, and I our march can be just as successful as I’m told yours was. I really hope that we can keep up this momentum. It’s so great to see us stand up as a community for once, really fighting for our rights. We need to put everything we have into this, and not only change State laws, but National laws. DOMA, and DaDt need to be repealed ASAP, and ENDA and Civil Unions need to be created. We need to support these innitiatives with every ounce of strength, hope, and creativity we have, and we need to learn to put our money where our hearts are. This isn’t just about marriage equality, it’s about total equality.

  2. nate in wisconsin says

    I just sent a letter to the major newspaper in Salt Lake City indicating that I will not be coming to Park City this year. I think a major boycott of all things Utah is in order. However, I do think that we need to consider the political wisdom of working for 99% of the loaf as we wait for demographic reality to work it way (ie let the old bigots die off) Young people of all ages support gay rights. (See Nate Silver’s web site for details) Marriage is in inevitable in time. In the mean, time real people need the rights and privileges that could be had for asking, right now, through civil unions. This has worked well in the U.K. Civil unions takes the religious element out of the equation, a huge political consideration. Plus the gay community really needs to focus on out reach to blacks and Hispanics. Can you imagine the power of clinics staffed and funded by the GLBT community that could proved free or low cost health care in poorer parts of California? We need to be hard headed about the political opportunities that the new Obama administration presents. Remember, the right wing it intent on rebuilding through a new culture war. By focusing on civil unions (if the legal cases go against us) we can have all the benefits we need now while working towards the longer range goal that younger voter will deliver in the future. Something to think about

  3. Jo-blo says

    A wholesale boycott of Utah is not in order. Not everyone in Utah is Mormon, and not every Mormon supported Prop 8. In fact, there are a ton of Mormons who didn’t do anything other than vote yes.

    While the indignation and anger is justified, we need to be channeling it in productive ways. We need to stop blaming people and start talking about what it’s going to take to build up the support we need to get equal rights.

  4. colin says

    Yeah New York — great job.

    Saturday is a big day across the nation with lots of demonstrations planned in a lot of cities.

    I’m in MPLS. and we have one

    Saturday, November 15
    Outside Government Center
    350 S. 5th Street, downtown Minneapolis

    and another one at the State Capital in St. Paul from 3-7pm
    here’s a link to the facebook page with listing across the country
    it has a link to events in 60some cities joining together on Saturday, November 15th

    or info at

  5. Mike says


    With 60 to 70 percent of Utah’s population identifying as Mormon, I think it is a viable target for a boycott in order to apply pressure on the church to withdraw from political lobbying (in fact ordering members to donate and vote a certain way). We also need to keep up the pressure to have their tax-exempt status removed, as was done successfully in the past in order to have them rescind some of their racial policies. Boycotting is one tool in an array of tools we have at our disposal, and we cannot ignore it. It must, however, be a part of a coordinated strategy.

  6. Scott says

    I encourage everyone to forward the following statement to everyone they know. Let’s set the record straight and make sure that it’s clear that this isn’t just about marriage equality. It’s about our civil rights:

    I am an American

    I am Gay. And I am a Second Class citizen.

    A number of civil rights and liberties guaranteed to U.S. Citizens under the Constitution are denied to me based on my sexual orientation.

    The Federal Equal Employment Opportunity Laws prohibit discrimination by an employer that is based on race, color, religion, gender, national origin, age or physical or mental disablilty. LGBT citizens are offered no Federal protection from discrimination under those same laws.

    Though I may do so without publicly acknowledging my sexual orientation, I am not permitted to serve or defend my country in any branch of the U.S. Military. If I were a serving officer or enlisted man and my sexual orientation were to be made public I would be dishonorably discharged. As of 2006, over 11,694 U.S. soldiers have been discharged under the guidelines established by the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy enacted in 1993.

    Despite the fact that anyone can spread the HIV virus through sexual contact, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not permit me to donate blood based on my sexual orientation.

    Some States have made it illegal for me to adopt a child as a single person or as member of a legal Civil Union or Domestic Partnership. Most states rely on local municipal courts to decide the legality on a case by case basis.

    Legally, I can enter into marriage with another consenting adult of the same sex in only two States, Connecticut and Massachusetts. But because of the Defense of Marriage Act enacted in 1996 the U.S. Federal Government is not required to provide me with any of the 1,138 rights guaranteed to married heterosexual couples.

    Civil Unions currently allowed by 7 states do not grant the same rights and responsibilities as marriage does. Domestic Partnerships currently allowed by 3 States grant even less protection under the law. The remaining 38 States offer no legal Marriage, Civil Union or Domestic Partnership rights to same-sex couples. No State is required to recognize the Marriage, Civil Union or Domestic Partnership of a same-sex couple granted to them by any other State.

    The 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all persons under their jurisdiction.

    If you have friends or loved ones that are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgendered show your support for them and stand up against legal discrimination and social inequality. Please contact your local, State and Federal representatives and remind them that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

  7. jesse says

    What tv/press was there last night? I was in the crowd and saw one tv crew interviewing Whoopi Goldberg and another crew interviewing Tony Kushner. But I saw nothing about it on the local news here in NY. What kind of coverage did the event end up getting??

  8. Todd says

    It’s been such a pleasure to watch the transformation of this site in the last 6-8 months. The focus on progressive, and LGBT in particular, politics has made this site a must read (along with Pam’sHouseBlend) every day. Keep it up. You’re keeping us expats engaged while keeping our Stateside family informed and passionate.

  9. says

    Wow, a tremendous turnout and so heartening! Sincere thanks to everyone who came out last night.
    However, very disappointing to see everyone behind the huge inappropriate God Loves Gays banner. It’s religion that absolutely fuels this bigotry, and religious belief has no place whatsoever in a reality-based civil rights debate.
    If religious gays want to be accepted religiously by others then that’s a completely different struggle.

  10. DAvid O says

    Thanks for doing this in NYC, guys, but please don’t forget about Arizona, Arkansas and Florida. They’re calling it “a national protest against prop 8″ and forgetting that Florida for example lost domestic partnerships not just gay marriage and worse still, people in Arkansas will have their foster children taken away from them. These other states might not have the celebrity power and political clout, but if you’re going to protest, protest for ALL of last week’s propositions. We’re doing what we can, but hope that a national protest would not be limited to one state’s issue. Thanks!

  11. RoyA says

    Thank you NYC and to all who attended and showed your support. I would also like to thank Whoopi G. for the support, and showing to the protest and hit the issue very well. there is a separation between state and religion. Huffington post has the link on the interview.

  12. NJDesignGuy says

    Last night was a truly amazing experience for me. As a 27 year old who only came out 3 years ago I felt this need to be part of something bigger than myself, and last night was the perfect chance to do that.

    All day I tried to round up some of my coworkers to go to the rally with me (I work in retail so 85% of the guys here are gay), and everyone has an excuse. So while I almost bailed, I said screw it and went alone. Little did I know when I got there I would not feel alone at all.

    The first person I actually saw was your Andy, and I gave a very awkward “Hi Andy, Im here because I read about it on the blog” as you handed me the chants. But really I was there to support all of our rights. But was only made aware of the event because of the blog.

    So thank you Andy for making me aware of issues, as well as giving me something to read at work!

  13. says

    It’s disappointing that there doesn’t seem to be anything in the local press (unless I’ve just missed the articles). There was a little coverage on the local TV news channels, but not much.

  14. freddy says

    Yeah, seriously, last night was a total sausage fest. Where the hell were the girls? Aren’t lesbians supposed to be more vocal in activism?

    Speaking of the guys last night, um, when did NYC get all the hot guys back?!?

  15. Nathan says


    Yesterday’s protest was for Prop 8. Saturday is the national rally for gay rights everywhere. Prop 8 resonated more because it was so darn close and also because it actually took rights away. But you’re right in not forgetting the other states, so be sure to attend a rally in your state on Saturday.

    Here’s where to go and what to do:

    Nice work last night, y’all. That was my first rally and it was great. Let’s not let up.

  16. Alex says

    I was there last night. I saw lots of cameras, but where is the coverage in the press? There’s nothing in the Times or NY1.

    Does anyone know how many people there were?

    Let’s make Saturday amazing!

  17. DAvid O says

    NATHAN: In response to your reply to my posting, you clearly didn’t read my posting and you certainly didn’t look at the contents of the site you sent me to! It’s called, quote: “Fight the H8 – the NATIONAL protest on prop 8″. What I said before and say again, of course each state should hold their own rallies, but something that’s supposedly “national” should not just be in defense of one state. And your comment about CA being “different” because rights were taken away shows you really don’t even understand the issue. People in Arkansas, gay and straight are having their CHILDREN taken away, and Domestic Partnerships were also banned in FL, not just “marriage”. All I’m asking for is more inclusion and less focus on “8”.

  18. says

    Great turn out!! We’re holding a protest this Saturday in front of the American Consulate here in Toronto. Very refreshing and amazing to see how many young people, especially university students, are attending.

  19. willy says

    California sends their love. Thanks NY!

    Why is it that the AP always downsizes the
    marches? I went last Friday to the one here in San Fran and the AP said 1000 people and the news said 15,000!

  20. says

    This is an amazing recap. Well done!
    I’m so glad my husband and I turned out for it. It was empowering to be in that group last night. Thanks to everyone who organized.

    Hopefully the crowd will be even bigger for Saturday’s!

  21. Roy says

    God loves gay marriage?

    Please! Let’s not stoop to the level of those who blindly follow dogma. I wouldn’t march behind a banner proclaiming something that inane. This is a protest about basic human rights – not skyghost’s approval.

  22. Nick says

    Hey Andy, I’m pretty sure the woman with the sign about Barack’s parents is Annie Proulx, the author of Brokeback Mountain. I’ve worked with her before, and I’m almost certain that’s her.

  23. Jeff Hall says

    WHATSTHEPOINT said: “sadly these protests really do nothing… what’s the point…just like any other protest they don’t really “change” anything”
    Posted by: what’s the point… | Nov 13, 2008 8:11:21 AM


    I was there last night…it changed me.

  24. aidanc says

    Great night NYC !!
    Bummer of a banner ??:( This is a civil rights discussion not a competition for “God’s” approval. Lets hope we can strike those sentiments from Saturdays rallies.

  25. says

    Andy, I’m so envious of you and all the other gay brothers and sisters…..huge respect admiration and gratitude for your courage and integrity. I will always love this site. Respect and solidarity to everyone from Ireland

  26. Matt K says

    Wow! Guess we missed A LOT by arriving 15 mins late and marching near the front of the pack. Was still a great experience, though, and am so glad to see all this great coverage.

  27. Kurt Thomas says

    Someone should look into how much the Mormons and their allies i.e. Saddleback Church, Black churches in LA, spent this year on the REAL enemies of the family (poverty, lack of education, spousal/substance abuse, and marriage counseling/divorce.)

    Something tells me it pales in comparison to the time, energy and money spent on Prop 8 – further proving that this was never about saving marriage but rather keeping gays in their place.


  28. says

    PLEASE don’t banner slogans like God Loves Gay Marriage… religious acceptance has no place in this reality-based struggle for civil rights.
    It’s highly inappropriate to pollute, minimize, and hijack the debate to the debased level of the religious bigots. If religious gays want religious acceptance that’s an entirely different cause to raise in a completely different forum.

  29. big picture says

    It doesn’t MATTER if not all of Utah is Mormon or that not all Mormons voted for Prop 8. Withdrawing our support of Utah (financial or otherwise), AS A UNIFIED, COMMITTED GROUP, sends a clear message as to the strength of our movement and the consequences of bigotry in general.

  30. says

    PLEASE don’t banner slogans like God Loves Gay Marriage… religious acceptance has no place in this reality-based struggle for civil rights.
    It’s highly inappropriate to pollute, minimize, and hijack the debate to the debased level of the religious bigots. If religious gays want religious acceptance that’s an entirely different cause to raise in a completely different forum.

  31. says

    Very nicely accomplished, Mr. Towle, and congrats to your team of (un)organizers for a superbly (un)planned and (un)structured event. This is the way stuff will get done in the future. It marks a power shift in the leadership of the gay community. Not many people are commenting on this secondary aspect of the event because they are rightly preoccupied with the central issue of prop8/church&state. But I am more fascinated by the viral genesis of this event and by the fact that it will most certainly be replicated elsewhere. We are on the verge of no longer needing formal (and sometimes hidebound) advocacy groups to pave a way for us down Main Street. Blog, seen yesterday as a media appendix, is now the new bicep. You flexed. We moved. Do more reps.

  32. Rocco says

    Tony Perkins’ smirk enrages me! We must find a way (reversal by the courts or winning the next vote)to wipe that smirk off his his face! Everybody march on Saturday!

  33. says

    MY BAD

    I originally thought of the whole No on 8 thing as a bunch of arrogant upper middle class white Weho queens who didn’t have the sense god gave them to actively court the black community in the lead up to Prop 8. I figured that losing would be a good slap in the face to their arrogance.

    I was right.

    It was a slap in the face.

    To me.

    If this many of my brothers and sisters are this inspired/enraged to hold these grassroots demonstrations, then who am I to question this movement?

    I am onboard fully. I still have my issues with the way the campaign was run , however, I am impressed and i think everyone learned their lesson about working together.

    Including me.

    I am on my way right now to paint signs for this weekends rally in Las Vegas. If anyone wants to help call 702 733 9800 (the LGBT Center) and ask how you can help. I’ll be posting pics this evening on my blog (just click my name). Hopefully, I’ll see all Las Vegans this weekend!

    Derek Washington
    2008 Nevada Demcratic Delegate

  34. Nick says

    When will conservatives realize that they are always, 100% without fail, on the wrong side of history? They were the ones screeching for loyalty to the King. They were the ones who said the Civil Rights movement would bring about Armageddon. And today they stand in the way of gay rights. They will lose this one, too.

  35. David Marshall says

    “[ Footnote 4 ] The intelligence community believed that it was necessary “to conceal these activities from the American public in general,” because public knowledge of the “unethical and illicit activities would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles and would be detrimental to the accomplishment of its mission.” Id., at 394 (quoting CIA Inspector General’s Survey of the Technical Services Division, p. 217 (1957)).” See [Footnote 4 of IV] U.S. 709 U.S. Supreme Court 1987 STANLEY military experiment case. [3] The “Veterans Right to Know Act” to establish the Veterans’ Right to Know Commission was proposed in the 2005 and H.R. 4259 [109th] 2006 Congress.[9] In accordance with the ongoing greater good necessity “to conceal these activities…” a veteran’s right to get the U.S. Senate’s “designed to harm” needed for treatment, and experiment identifying, evidence never became law.

    To-date rejected is the U.S. Senate 1994 Report’s, “The Feres Doctrine should not be applied for military personnel who are harmed by inappropriate human experimentation when informed consent has not been given.”[8] Despite the 16 of 66 year efforts of some, the U.S. Congress has failed to protect service personnel from “to harm” experiments. Therefore, do not the U.S. Senate’s reported Department of Defense (DOD) “EXPERIMENTS THAT WERE DESIGNED TO HARM” [8] continue?

    Please have your members in the U.S. Congress give back to service personnel and veterans those rights that convicted rapists and murderers keep, e.g., “Written policy and practice prohibit the use of” [prison] “inmates for medical…..experiments.”! See page 13 of 14, REF: [6] The U.S. Supreme Court’s 1987 STANLEY [3] “to harm” DOD experiment is approved by the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1950 FERES [1] ‘can do no wrong, ends justify the means’ Doctrine. The STANLEY case is one of the U.S. Senate’s 1994 “During the last 50 years, hundreds of thousands of military personnel” were subjected to “experiments that were designed to harm”, e.g., the reported biological and chemical agents, radiation exposure, hallucinogenic and investigational drugs, experimental vaccines and behavior modification projects.[8] It is a dereliction of duty in direct disobedience of the DOD Secretary’s 26 February 1953 NO non-consensual, human experiments.[2] During the U.S. Senate’s reported past 50 years, most of the “to harm” service records were destroyed in a 1973 National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) fire. Congress’s 1974 Privacy Act censored experiment verifying witnesses from any surviving records!

    After the 1987 STANLEY, Congress passed the 1988 Veterans’ Judicial Review Act (VJRA).[4] Established was the Legislative, Article I severely restricted, U.S. Court of Veterans Appeals. In 1994 its Chief Judge stated, “The Court simply identifies error made below by a failure to adhere, in individual cases, to the Constitution, statutes, and regulations which themselves reflect policy — policy freely ignored by many initial adjudicators whose attitude is, “I haven’t been told by my boss to change. If you don’t like it — appeal it.”[7] Congress dictated that, “The court may not review the schedule of ratings for disabilities or the policies underlying the schedule.”[4] Given to the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA) is the Judicial Branch’s final authority on “the policies underlying the schedule” questions of law![5]

    Each “to harm” experiment completes a Research and Development (R&D) process. Prior R&D is reviewed. The resulting Scope of Work defines what each experiment is “designed” to accomplish. The how, where, when and who is identified. The conducted RESEARCHED cause and effects are closely followed and recorded. From the results are DEVELOPED safe production, use, victim treatment and protection. Accordingly, at the time known are the recorded and withheld “designed to harm” resultant “schedule” disabilities with their identifying symptoms and treatment. Ignored by the U.S. Congress is the service personnel rights lost vs. prison inmate kept!

    Overlooked by many in Congress is our “Pledge of Allegiance” “with liberty and justice for all” and the U.S. Supreme Court’s ignored own, carved in stone over its entrance, “EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW”!


    [1] 1950 – Feres v. United States, 340 U.S. 135, 146 (1950).

    [2] 1953 – DOD Secretary’s 26 February 1953 NO non-consensual, human experiment’s Memo pages 343-345. George J. Annas and Michael A. Grodin, “The Nazi Doctors and the Nuremberg Code; Human Rights in Human Experimentation” (New York: Oxford University Press, 1992).

    [3] 1987 – U.S. SUPREME COURT, JUNE 25, 1987, U.S. V. STANLEY , 107 S. CT.. 3054 (VOLUME 483 U.S., SECTION 669, PAGES 699 TO 710).

    [4] 1988 – Veterans’ Judicial Review Act (VJRA), Pub. L. No. 100-687, Div. A, 102 Stat. 4105 (8 December 1988) DVA-Chapter 4 and

    [5] “United States Code (USC) Title 38, 511. Decisions of the Secretary; finality.” US CODE: Title 38511. Decisions of the Secretary; finality.

    [6] 1994 – U.S. State Dept., “U.S. Report under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights July 1994, Article 7 – Freedom from Torture, or Cruel, Inhuman
    or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.” Electronic Research Collections (ERC)

    [7] 1994 – Chief Judge and colleague statements, Court of Veterans Appeals, Annual Judicial Conference, Fort Meyer, VA., 17 & 18 October 1994. Chief Judge Frank Nebeker’s Statement STATE OF COURT – – – URL:

    [8] 1994 – December 8, 1994 REPORT 103-97 “Is Military Research Hazardous to Veterans’ Health? Lessons Spanning Half a Century.” Hearings Before the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, 103rd Congress 2nd Session.

    [9] 2005 & 2006 – “Veterans Right to Know Act” to establish the Veterans’ Right to Know Commission was proposed in the 2005 and H.R. 4259 [109th] 2006 Congress. H. R. 4259.

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