Comments

  1. says

    Yes, by all means, let continue to make this nontroversy into a big stink. Warren wins. GLBT lose. Christians thrive on the feeling of persecution. They are never happier than when they are being demonized by all the right people. If Warren is removed they will crow to the ceiling about the evil gays. And the left just ends up looking whiny and exclusive yet again. This is a nothing invitation that will be forgotten by Jan. 22nd by the majority of americans. At the same time it pulls Warrens base further from the republicans and shows his followers they don’t have to be wed to a single party. In the long run this helps us, but why waste time on the big picture when we can have a nice hissy fit and storm about feeling superior?

    Obama has been criticized for alot of decisions that later turned out to have been extremely smart and subversive in their effectiveness. How about a little trust on this one.

  2. David D. says

    Yes, Etheridge’s inane “He likes me, he likes my album” comments are painful in their self-centredness.

    “He regretted his choice of words in his video message to his congregation about proposition 8 when he mentioned pedophiles and those who commit incest. He said that in no way, is that how he thought about gays.”

    Well, isn’t that nice. So why did he say them if that’s not what he thinks? Peer-pressure? Judgement clouded by alcohol? Because it’s trendy?

    Regardless, he can’t unsay what he said and he can’t unthink what he thinks. I resent that my human rights are an issue to be debated and disagreed upon rather than a foregone conclusion.

  3. Daryl says

    Just because a musician is gay does not mean they are qualified to speak on behalf of the gay community. On the contrary, most musicians aren’t qualified to speak – period.
    People like Melissa Etheridge and Elton John need to realize that they are part of the problem, not the solution. What’s best for their careers and album sales isn’t necessarily best for the gay community.

  4. CCasey says

    Mike, relax. It is not throwing a “hissy fit” to make your displeasure with your elected officials known. It’s not even activism; it’s simple self-respect. If you feel uncomfortable asking for what you want, you can continue to rely on others who are less afraid to object to a President we worked hard to elect sanctioning homophobia as a respectable social position.

  5. says

    The only place I am seeing exclusivity and hatred is here. Just because Barack Obama is not wrapping himself in rainbow flags for his inauguration, you folks suddenly are against him. Good grief.

    I side with Melissa; we have to give Barack Obama the chance to make his case. You can’t change a mind by shutting it out; you welcome it to the table. I do not know Rick Warren, but I suspect he holds the key that will depolarize ALL this crap on civil rights. A president can set all the policy he or she wants. That’s only as good so long as they are in office. It’s the grass roots, the communities and their leaders that drive how a population interprets and accepts that policy. Minds and websites can be changed.

    Tolerance, people. Tolerance.

    Contemplate this for a moment; had the presidential election gone the other way in November, where would we be?

  6. rudy says

    Absolutely agree with Andy’s position. We must continue to hold all politicians “feet to the fire”. Calling for Warren to be uninvited is the morally right thing to do. It shows that we will not tolerate being disrespected and that our fight for basic human rights is not negotiable, despite the almost certainty that Team Obama will not heed the call to do–what they surely know by now is–the right thing. Moreover, I do not expect much progress on specific issues, e.g. DOMA and DADT, in the first term because Obama will be too busy running for re-election almost immediately (political cynic that I am) and will have learned from the early Clinton administration debacles (hence, his invitation to Warren) to risk political captial on culturally controversial issues. Would that it were not so, but I am a realist. Nevertheless, I remain focussed on the eventual nominees to The Supremes (and the Federal Courts of Appeal). That is the holy grail and the means for our eventual success. Therefore, although I am deeply disappointed and insulted–but hardly surprised–by the Warren invitation misstep, I still believe that Obama remains the overall best candidate for the future of my gay community and my country.

  7. Buzz says

    What am I missing here? We ask people to listen and grow and change, and then when they show evidence that they are, we still diss them? It was clearly a miscalculation to invite Warren to speak at the inauguration. But he did MORE than say he liked Melissa’s albums guys. Read it again if you must. When you call someone a bigot, you END the conversation. And conversations are one way to educate and enlighten people. Paving the way to have conversation is NOT being part of the problem. Clearly, it remains to be seen if Warren’s actions will follow the change of heart he seems to be articulating. Keep protesting, but check yourselves to see if you are allowing for a dialogue. No dialogue = less chance to educate and change people.

  8. Josh says

    GLAAD has vids of interviews that Kay Warren did last year where she admitts that they didn’t care about AIDS when they thought it was just a “gay disease”…

    http://glaadblog.org/2008/12/18/past-media-coverage-of-rick-warren/

    Fox News: Hannity & Colmes – Warrens Address AIDS

    12.20.07 09:00 pm – Pastor Rick and Kay Warren talk about their work with AIDS and Kay says, “I thought it was a gay disease. And for me I thought that meant I didn’t have to care. And I was so wrong.”

    ABC: Nightline – Kay Warren on AIDS

    12.14.07 11:42 pm – Kay Warren, wife of pastor Rick Warren, admits she did not respond to the AIDS crisis immediately because it “was tied with homosexuality,” but now says all people with HIV/AIDS should be treated with compassion.

  9. titus says

    without any research how many can name who gave the invocation at bush’s 04’inauguration or the any of the previous inaugurations. it will be forgotten. yes it was a bad tasteless choice, but there are infinite other things much more important.

  10. LarsonNY says

    There is one good thing I am focusing on. Rick Warren has been called out on his anti-gay political and moral views. Now everyone knows how he feels about gay rights and abortion. Obama has really put this man’s values front and center and now they are being publicly challenged. It’s a great thing that we all got the chance to very publicly call him a bigot and state our feelings about prop 8 again. It draws even more attention to how wrong this whole thing is. This would have never happened if Obama hadn’t done what he did. Even though I doubt very highly a well known racist would be saying prayers at his inauguration, perhaps some good can come of this.

  11. says

    IMO we have been played like a cheap violin by those who want to deny us our rights and they are succeeding in creating a rift within us and are making us our own worse enemies.

    Let me explain.

    After Prop 8 passed we were angry (And we still should be angry) Our vioces became loud and clear, we started boycotting, protesting loudly and began to expose the religious bigots and right wingers who would deny us as what they really were. And it was working. Then they got scared and started making themselves out to be THE VICTIMS and us the bad guys with quotes like

    “Religion is being attacked”

    “See how they act?”

    “For a group that wants tolerence they should be more tolerent.”

    The fact is they spun it and spun it good and those wspecially in the mainstream got scared at how THEY looked. NOT US.

    The simple facts are that we are not looking to be “TOLERATED” we are FIGHTING FOR OUR INALIENABLE RIGHTS. I don’t care if they like me or “tolerate” me. (And tolerate sounds bad in itself) I DEMAND THE RIGHTS THAT ARE BEING HELD BACK FROM US. And we all should. This IS AMERICA

    I am sure that those who are taking the “olive branch” care also But heres the thing. If you want to extend an olive brance go ahead. Thats fine by me. If I want to boycott and march that should also be okay. If you don’t agree don’t comment and critize it publically. Because if you do YOU are dividing the community, promoting infighting and making us look worse in the public eye and doing exactly what they want you to do.

    KEEP YOUR FOCUS AHEAD ON OUR GOAL. (And our foes. NOT on each other)

    It takes many startagies to win. Not just one.

  12. says

    If someone doesn’t want to be called a bigot, then they shouldn’t do or say things that are bigoted. It’s very simple. The conversation ended the moment Warren equated us with pedophiles and incest. The interviewer even gave Warren a chance to amend his statement at the time, saying “Is that really what you believe?” His answer? “Well, yes… it is.” And now Warren’s taking anti-gay language off his site and saying “I never meant that”? Bullshit. He’s a bigot, plain and simple. I am not interested in anything he has to say, and no one else who has a shred of self-respect should be interested either. If Warren has been trying to tone down his anti-gay rhetoric lately, it’s not because he’s had a change of heart. It’s because homohating is quickly becoming a biblically justifiable but no longer socially acceptable bias. That’s a good thing, but this progress is occurring not because of, but IN SPITE OF people like Warren.

    If Mr. Obama wants to include evangelicals or other conservative christians in a national dialogue about equality and change, then he could easily have found some clergy that were not crazed homophobes. He didn’t. Instead, he’s giving a national stage to this prejudiced oaf, and expects everyone to think that this is somehow indicative of “chage we can believe in”.

    People who think that we need to “show some tolerance” to bigots like this are utterly deluded about what tolerance really means. Read what Dan Savage wrote about how intolerance of intolerance, and you’ll understand.

    As one of the people who has been and continues to be discriminated against by Warren and his ilk, it is not my responsibility to seek dialogue or resolution. It is up to Warren to publicly apologize for his MANY previous statements, to publicly offer a full-throated repudiation for all religion-based homohating, to publicly call for all christians to vigorously support the full and equal human and civil rights for all Americans (including gays), and to make a public announcement that his church will never again engage in anti-gay activities and will instead atone for his hatred by putting the full resources of his church to work for equality and fairness for GLBT people.

    When that happens, I’ll consider a dialogue. But I won’t hold my breath.

  13. DJ says

    Exactly Titus,so all the queens should stop throwhing a hissy fit and stop calling Obama a “bigot”,frankly I see this as more of a bunch of white Racist homos,who are using this as an excuse to express their racism for someone of color and happens to be “the new man in charge”.Gay people are whining and bitcing about the wrong thing,this shouldnt even be an issue.Get your motherfuckin’ priorities str8.

  14. nic says

    ANDY,

    i agree with your assessment. obama cannot unring that bell anymore than rick warren can suck back his effluvium.

    i can only hope that obama’s affront to the gay community, the nonreligious, the liberals, the extreme leftists, and the feminists will not be repeated (gee, i am all of those).

    further, melissa etheridge does not speak for me. her impertinence toward hillary had already soured me to her, and her kissy-face, huggy-body attitude toward rick warren only adds to my distaste. her heart is in the right place, but her brain is AWOL.

    truth be told, we (the aforementioned) have nowhere else to go. it is obama and the dems — or oblivion. hence, my anger and my frustration.

  15. Sam says

    Yay! Warren owns Melissa Etheridge CDs!! Big deal! There are lots of people who like her music, but that doesn’t mean they like lesbians and gays. Before Etheridge even had a chance to criticize/question him, Warren played to her ego and won her over. Sucker!

    If Warren told Etheridge that he regrets the comparisons he made about gays and incest, etc….why are we hearing it from HER? Let’s hear it from HIM! He’s had the opportunity during recent interviews to announce his change of heart, but I haven’t heard him say it…have you?

    And to Rad: If Obama wants to change Warren’s mind, great! I’m all for open communication and listening to views that differ from mine. So absolutely invite him to the table and talk…over dinner or at home or at the office. But NOT by giving him a prominent position at your inauguration!

    You say gays should be tolerant. Why do WE have to continue being tolerant??? Enough is enough! Why don’t you insist that THEY be respectful of OUR RIGHTS!? Of us as HUMANS! You probably would have told Rosa Parks to get her ass up and go to the back of the bus and be glad she wasn’t out working in the field!

    Finally, it isn’t enough to say, “well, we could be much worse off with the other guy.” Maybe so, but that’s why we didn’t VOTE for the other guy! We voted for the guy who promised inclusion and change. The guy who promised to heal and unite. Now, before he’s even in the White House, he makes a decision that hurts, excludes and divides. And you don’t think we should be pissed off??

  16. Patrick Lehman says

    Rick Warren is spineless. When it served his agenda to compare us to child molestors and incestors he gladly did so on national television. When it threatened to cost him a place on a national stage, he has tried to un-say it. It is no more a “coming around” than any other figure who gets caught by his own bigotry. He just got busted. And note to Melissa Etheridge; Sammy Davis Jr. and Leberace had many fans who loved their music and persona, and actively hated gays and blacks. I’m willing to see Obama get beyond this, but as a fundraising, flagwaving, bumper-stickered fan, I’m done.

  17. says

    “I see this as more of a bunch of white Racist homos,who are using this as an excuse to express their racism for someone of color and happens to be “the new man in charge”.

    Right. Disagreeing with Mr. Obama and standing up for my equal humanity is racism. Sorry, I forgot.

    If that’s how we GLBT people think of this debate, then we’re sunk indeed. There’s plenty of racism among our tribe, but this isn’t it.

  18. CCasey says

    DJ, don’t be an idiot. No one has called Obama a bigot; the bigot is Rick Warren (note: the white guy), and Obama is misguided for having given him a platform.

    How you can make this a racist issue is beyond me.

  19. Cameron says

    The LGBT Community really needs to learn which battles to fight. Frankly, this barely blips on the priority radar. Acting like entitled, spoiled divas isn’t going to help the cause.

  20. Sam says

    Why do people keep going to the “racist” thing?? This isn’t about racism. A bad decision is a bad decision, regardless of race! And Obama’s pick of Warren was a bad decision! It would be the same if Obama was white, yellow, pink or green. We’re not holding him accountable because he’s black; we’re holding him accountable because he’s our PRESIDENT! We CAN be critical of his decisions without it meaning we’re racist!

    Maybe those crying racism are the ones who have the issue.

  21. says

    Cameron makes a point. I might be spoiled. I’m most certainly a diva. But the only thing I’m entitled to is equal human and civil rights. And if I have to squawk and bitch and moan and protest and write letters and send emails and call my political representatives and give money to activist organizations and comment on Towleroad, then that’s what I’m going to do.

    Honey I don’t know about you, but I’ve had it up to here with lying down and taking this kind of bullshit abuse from those who claim to “love” me. I’m done. And the battles that need fighting are the ones that piss us off and highlight our second class citizenship. That includes this one, as well as what will likely be bigger and nastier fights to come.

    Roll over and take it if you want to be agreeable. I for one will choose to fight.

  22. Sam says

    Cameron – If demanding respect and equal rights makes me an entitled, spoiled diva…I’ll gladly wear the crown!

  23. Derrick from Philly says

    RUDY & NIC (Lord, what a combination!):

    Thanks for speaking with reason, maturity and a sophistication about national politics–understanding the dilemma of the Democratic Party trying to position itself as truly the “party in power”. Americans don’t like Liberals or Leftists. A bad war and a economic disaster brought Liberal Democrats to power. But now those Liberal Democrats are trying to find subtle strategies to exert their power. Reassuring the Fundamentalists & Conservatives (reasonable Conservatives) is a strategy. I don’t like, but I’ll live with it for now.

    As others have said, this is not the point to loose hope in Obama and the Democrats.

    Those who say, “this is just harbinger of things to come.” Y’all are full of anti-Obama shit.

    DJ, I felt the way you do now last week when this “Warren hysteria” broke out. Now, I say let them rant and let Obama hear them.

    Black people ranted in 1993 when Bill Clinton withdrew the name of Lani Gruenier (did I spell her name right? no) to be head of the Civil Rights Commission. We accused him of giving into the racists. Then we calmed down and accepted Bill Clinton as the best choice we could have made at the time.

  24. says

    You got this exactly right! Boy, do we need better leaders than the simple-minded narcissim of celebrities. It is such a dead end for LGBT progress.

  25. henry says

    I assuming that the Milkman and all the others who are calling for Obama to de-pick Warren did not vote for Obama. Because if you supported and voted for Obama, surprise…he is doing exactly what he promised to do. Bring opposing voices together. If you can’t handle living in a country with a bigot like Warren, then go move somewhere else where everyone is nice to you and brings you cookies on a plate.

    I am a gay athiest who voted for Obama and I am proud of him for bringing so many different viewpoints to the table to work this shit out. No more divisiveness of the Bush-Clinton era. Time to leave that behind.

    Seriously, the gay community is going to jump the shark on this one and soon we will be a ridiculous minority group of whiners bringing down the left…just like how the religious right was a ridiculous drag on the right.

  26. says

    #

    Posted by: CCasey | Dec 23, 2008 10:47:58 AM

    #

    The LGBT Community really needs to learn which battles to fight. Frankly, this barely blips on the priority radar. Acting like entitled, spoiled divas isn’t going to help the cause.

    Casey, Im not sure how old you are but, had we taken your suggestion in the 70′ and 80’s, we would still be fighting for the right to have legal sex while under quarantine.

    Activist groups like ACT UP and QueerNation fought for every Civil Right and HIV/AIDS legislation we have today, because we did not lay low in hopes of compromising those rights.

    Entitled? Your are fucking right. Spoiled? Hardly.

  27. SFshawn says

    Is Rick Warren a female to male transexual? That is the only way this makes any sense.
    It’s still 28 days until this INCLUSIVE event happens-that’s a LONG time to be on the defensive Obama,Biden,Warren,etc.,etc….good luck!

  28. says

    Casey, if i missquoted you i am very sorry. If it was cameron is should have addressed, then it is cameron. Andy! we need better seperation. OK, i said it. Continue

  29. ohplease says

    The one and only thing that Rick Warren really is all about is sales. That’s it. I don’t believe he believes a word he says. He’s just in it to make money for Rick Warren.

    It is so sad that Etheridge fell for his line. Hey, the woman’s a talented singer/songwriter, not Einstein. But I’m just completely embarrassed for her.

    Warren must be laughing his ass off over this today.

  30. Brandon says

    Derrick: oh no you didn’t bring up Lani. LOL! (She rocked ruff n stuff with her Afro puffs!) I actually had dinner with Lani before she was nominated and was so NOT a fan. But, she was very smart and her academic writings weren’t that radical.

    As for the other stuff on here, I can see the perspective of almost everyone who posted. However, I don’t think Rick Warren is WWIII. DOMA, Don’t ask don’t tell, Round 2 of Prop 8 are more important and I want to husband my energy for those fights.

  31. says

    Henry,

    I voted for, campaigned for, and donated money to Mr. Obama. My reasons for doing so were not because he was perfect… his opposition to marriage equality continues to be a sticking point for me. My support was based on my true desire for a new generation of more progressive leadership.

    If Obama wants to have dialogue and debate with bigots like the Warrens, then more power to him. I have never called for Obama to rescind his invitation to Mr. Warren. My beef is that the invitation should never have been issued in the first place.

    I’d be happy to move to a place where GLBT people were treated as fully equal citizens. But as that’s not an option for me, I intend to continue fighting to make our country a fair and equitable place for people like me to live and prosper.

    And yes… Obama always said he would bring people together to “work this shit out”. But exactly how are we to work anything out through this prominent (if symbolic) bully pulpit invitation? Are you under the delusion that simply talking it out with the Warrens and their ilk will somehow make them see the insanity of their bigotry and cause a paradigm-shattering change of heart? Exactly how does my full-throated demand for equality equate to “whining”, and threaten to “bring down the left”? If the left, in its current incarnation, is so fragile that the GLBT community can bring it to its knees, then perhaps it’s high time that it happened.

    Yeah, I’m a complainer. It just sticks in my craw when my rights are shat upon. But heck… if you have those magic words that will somehow convince Mr. Warren and his ilk to see the error of their ways, then I will get in my car, pick you up, and drive you to the White House myself. What, exactly, would that heretofore un-heard argument be?

    I’m not interested in “coming together” if that means giving up my fight for equality.

  32. Jimmyboyo says

    NIC

    “…Obama can not unring the bell…”

    Sadly, EXACTLY right. The repubs would scream “weak” . What is done is done and can not be undone.

    Ethridge’s forgiveness and embracing of Warren so quickly and sooooo easily while not so easily nor quickly forgiving / embracing Hillary due to Bill’s support of DOMA and DADT is hypocritical.

    As you and others know, I did not support Hillary in the primary….BUT I could, did, and do embrace Hillary and Bill easily and quickly in spite of the past due to their actions outside of DOMA and DADT. Hillary made robo calls against prop 8 (whether enough or not according to others is a different subject) etc.

    For Ethridge to embrace Warren so easily yet not to have embraced Hilalry as a fellow dem just makes me sick sick SICK to my stomach and pissed at Ethridge.

    ———————————

    Derrick, Rudy, etc yeah last week I was utterly hurt and furious to, but Obama was and is the best choice over mccain/ palin.

    What is done is done and can not be undone. Obama will deliver.

    What hope do we have outside of the dems? The repubs are a non starter. Will their party even survive as a national party or go the way of the wigs. If they don’t give up their stance on abortion (ALL anti-choice initatives nationally FAILED by a larger margin than prop 8 passed by)and realize that laissez faire , de-regulation, so-called free markets, and support for the wealthy over the middle class and poor is a dead ender then they surely will end up ceasing to exist as a viable national party.

  33. Jimmyboyo says

    PS

    Yeah it is obvious that Warren is a snake oil salesman opportunist. When it was beneficial to his ambitions he hated us big time, now it appears that to be on the world stage he is willing to backtrack.

  34. Paul B. says

    Melissa Etheridge misses the point. First I would have to say where the hell has she been: “I hadn’t heard of Pastor Rick Warren before all of this.” Secondly she thinks Warren is not a “gay-hater” because he has bought her albums. Big deal. That is like saying a rapist isn’t really a rapist because he mentioned love or bought a condom. Is she that naive? Or am I that dumb? If we follow her logic then gays are relegated to only be florists, hairdressers, interior designers, and entertainers.

    She talks about how Warren regrets his choice of words but this is the standard “MO” for these right wing nut bags. They spew hateful remarks and when the heat is turned on they either proclaim it was taken out of context or that they misspoke. No. The truth comes out first and the lies try to cover-up the truth. Pastor Warren truly hates gays. In my heart I believe this. And if you think that he doesn’t because he is helping Africa with their AIDS crisis I want to remind you that AIDS in Africa is primarily a straight disease. Why not work with gay AIDS victims here in this country. Thousands need support, love, and medical care – especially when state’s are cutting budgets. Yet Warren offers nothing. And if you are gay, you can’t seek spiritual guidance and membership in his church because you are banned from joining if you are a “practicing” homosexual. He likens homosexuality to incest, pedophilia, and bestiality. He lied during Prop 8 by saying free speech of pastor’s will be taken away if it passes. That teachers will indoctrinate our young, impressionable children. He’s not a gay hater is he Melissa? Melissa, appeasement no longer works. It’s time our voices are heard loudly and clearly. Stand with us.

  35. Nickp says

    “Tolerance, people. Tolerance”

    I think we have been very tolerant for decades. If you look at history you will see the only things we have ever accomplished have been through activism (Stonewall, Act UP).

    Our vocal resistance to Warren is essential and I am sorry to see so many apologists here.

    Self loathing is a terrible thing when it blinds you from your own oppression.

  36. nic says

    DERRICK F.P. and JIMMYBOYO, thanx. cooler heads will always prevail. after all, who wouldathunk that Mr. RUDY and i would find common ground. but when i think about it, he and i share many ideas. peace, RUDY.

    there is something transcendent that most of us queers share: indomitability. defeat after defeat, we pick ourselves up and continue the good fight. if it is 2 steps forward and 1 step back, we can work with that.

  37. FunMe says

    “He bought my records. He likes me, he really likes me! So let’s forget about all the horrible things he said about gays or even the fact that his ‘small groups’ specifically deny gays from being in his church”.

    Melissa: bitch please!

    Why is it that “celebrities” can be so shallow at times and so easily bought?

    Obama’s decision to have a homophobe say a prayer in his inauguration was simply callous and insensitive.

    This warren fat cow homophobe needs to be removed. Any gay who doesn’t seem to get it that having someone who hates you speak at the inauguration, needs to wake up and reject those who hate you.

  38. ChrisDC says

    How do we find Melissa’s home, office, or record company address? We should start a campaign of flooding her with broken copies of her CD’s to reflect our broken faith in her as a representative of the LGBT community! Anyone else in?

  39. says

    “Exactly Titus,so all the queens should stop throwhing a hissy fit and stop calling Obama a “bigot”,frankly I see this as more of a bunch of white Racist homos,who are using this as an excuse to express their racism for someone of color and happens to be “the new man in charge”.Gay people are whining and bitcing about the wrong thing,this shouldnt even be an issue.Get your motherfuckin’ priorities str8.”

    Sorry, but I’m majprly Black and very politically aware and informed and I have to disagree with you on this one. While, for sure, some whites are using this as a way to express some hidden racism, I think, on this issue, Obama made a stupid move and is paying the political price for it.