Comments

  1. Andalusian Dog says

    No, NO, Kanye! To retool and oldie but goodie: “Please don’t take/ our rainbow/ away!” :_(

    If I weren’t too busy furrowing my brow trying to make sense of this nonsense, or too busy laughing afterward at the sheer idiocy of what I think he was trying to say, I’d be offended.

    But seriously, there’s alot of comedy fodder in there, so have a field day, gents! Can’t wait to see the comments later!

  2. Lucas says

    I’m happy Kanye is so secure in himself that he’s willing to socialize with gays. Wouldn’t a more legitimate argument not be that you need to be secure in your own manhood but that there is NO FUCKING REASON not to be friends with gay people. God. If he’s the best we can hope for, then we’re screwed. No matter what, it’s about HIM.

    I’m so secure in my whiteness that I have no issues hanging out with black people. I learned to have skillz and play mad sports by hanging out with them. *rolls eyes*

    This self-absorbed megalomaniac needs to go back under whatever rock he crawled out from.

    And get a new haircut. The fauxhawk died two years ago. Jeez.

  3. henry says

    Those clothes aren’t gay, they are just lame. Gay means sexual attraction to the same gender. I’m so sick of society conflating the two. I wear cheap jeans and plain tee shirts from Target, so does that make me Not Gay?

  4. Ed says

    This is the second person who I’ve heard talking about “taking back the rainbow.” I was watching Demetri Martin last night and he was joking about liking rainbows but being thought gay as well: “I think it’s weird that one groups gets to claim refracted light.”

    Is this a new meme?

  5. Andalusian Dog says

    DARKSIEGE –

    1) “Gay friendly”? I mean, are you serious? I know it was hard to get what young Master West was saying, but if you do the work and decipher it, it does not amount to gay friendly. It’s a rather awful, reductive view of who gay people are, actually. Just because he dresses like a clown and will stand next to Marc Jacobs for a photo op doesn’t make him gay friendly.

    2) Heterosexual? I mean, come on…only when further qualified by the word “dubiously.”

  6. Sparky says

    Aww… Bless.

    The guy is trying his hardest to be inclusive. He just missed the mark a bit.

    At least he isn’t shouting out that he wants to kill us.

    He’s just in a transition from being a homophobe to a decent human being, he reminds me of my dad for the first few months after I came out.

  7. Darksiege says

    Andalusian Dog

    1. Give me a break. Prove that he’s anti-gay. Go through the archives and bring up anything you can to prove your case. He’s had a pretty excellent pro-gay record so far. Who gives a crap if he has a case of megalomania? Hes in a business. In business or politics you don’t get very far without more than a healthy dose of self-esteem. And lets all be honest right here and now, if he was some white little heartthrob you’d all be falling all over him and thats the f*cking TRUTH.

    2. Sure.*

    *Scoff

  8. scar2 says

    I love Kanye for his music. The fact that he’s gay-friendly only makes me love him more. So he’s not the best at articulating gay issues but at least he’s trying. Apparently, that’s just not enought for some gay people

  9. says

    Hip hop is an aging genre with a narrowly defined frame of reference (it didn’t used to be, but that was years ago). Kanye knows this, and has lamented the fact in print.

    But frankly I’m damn tired of watching some of the most prominent people in hip-hop rationalize why they’ve discovered they don’t have to shoot or diss us, necessarily.

    Kanye seems like a nice lad. Isn’t there anyone who can help him to articulate the view that’s it’s okay, as a matter of fact, to be gay, and to like gays, and that all anti-gay bigots can just suck it? How hard, in fact, is it to say that?

    Pretty hard, judging by his mealy mouthed defensive incoherent reply.

  10. crispy says

    I’m with Darksiege. I don’t think he’s anti-gay at all. Anti-grammar perhaps.

    And honestly, you have to be a confident motherfucker to hang out with a guy in leopard print leggings and cowboy boots.

  11. says

    He’s just a talentless, Lenny Cravitz wanna-be. Since Kanye has NOTHING except an imitated look so he’s going to keep gaping his pie hole so that he remains in the media.

    He looks SOOOO good, but then he opens his mouth… for any purpose… and you realize there is NOTHING going on between the ears. No concept of grammar, no concept of music. He just SUCKS.

    When will his 15 minutes of fame finally come to an end?

  12. Andalusian Dog says

    DARKSIEGE –

    Scoff all you want. My point is that he paints gay people with a rather broad brush, and infers that gay men are not, or at least do not act like, “real” men.

    I don’t need to go through archives, I just need what he said right here to prove my point. According to KW, “gay” means “not like a man.” For example: “‘Dressing gay’ you can’t dress like … Your dress don’t give away whether or not you like a man. ”

    Further, for all his protest about how secure he is in his “manhood” (whatever that means), it appears that he is actually quite perturbed by the fact that he may appear “gay” to others. He is obviously concerned that the way he dresses seems to indicate to his peers that he may be “gay” (i.e., not like a man).
    Second, his wish to “take back the rainbow” is a pathetic pissing contest with gay people entirely created in his own mind. He’s constructed a false contest between himself (“straight,” “man”) and gay men over the appropriation of a visual symbol. In doing so, he has set up a narrative where a neutral, “innocent” symbol such as the rainbow has been “taken away” from its rightful home in the heterosexual world by gays, who have tarnished its innocence, and now needs to be reclaimed. Somehow, the use of the rainbow in the gay community – an indicator of diversity, as well as a phenomenon that is at once natural, rare, and more magnificent than most other humdrum phenomena — represents, to Kanye, a sullying of something that was once “good.”

    In my view, all this amounts to just another example of a heterocentric, macho ownership complex that extends to other social signifiers — dress, speech, gesture, architecture, etc. etc. (not to mention other people). If this is somehow gay friendly, I would hate to see gay unfriendly.

    Finally, I don’t fall all over anyone. I don’t even fawn all over anyone. I doubt many people who comment here would, based simply on the way a person looks, and especially if this hypothetical attractive young white person were talking out of two sides of his mouth, as KW does in this interview. What YOUR statement speaks to, however, is your own internalized homophobia (ALL of “us” would act in one way or another based on our sexual desire). Not to mention you apparently think that all white (?) gay men would excuse another (attractive) white man for being a homophobe, simply because this other person were white and attractive. That indicates a bias against white people, it seems, and that’s not right. Please go away now and come back once you have a more sustainable criticism.

  13. Alex says

    @ Henry I got confused by the headline, but that’s actually what Kanye is saying as well (“Your dress don’t give away whether or not you like a man.”). Except for the ‘lame’ part.

  14. says

    Wow. Someone says something good about homosexuals, about how he appreciates the stereotypical gay style and out designers, we repay him with catty insults. Yeah, he has a giant ego, but he also has a giant imagination (and debatable giant talent) in both music and fashion. And when we don’t have many allies in the hip-hop community, I don’t understand why we would hate on someone who basically pays us the biggest compliment – imitation, and isn’t afraid to admit it. It’s not the first time he’s said something been gay friendly, either. Kanye’s OK with me.

  15. Cj says

    Guys, guys, c’mon. Kayne’s is trying his best in being inclusive. I find it interesting that we give passes to so many people who have done much worse for inclusivity than Mr. West. Picking apart his diction is just as ignorant as someone being homophobic, we’re not leading by good example. Kayne has come a long way, and is doing a good service in trying to open the minds of a typically homophobic and misogynistic group as the hip hop community. Being bitchy and cutting someone apart for trying their best is exactly how we are being just as exclusive as others are towards us. Sound familiar? Sound similar to McInerney’s defense of his premeditated murder of King as he faced a “brutal” and “tragic” upbringing, thus the reasoning for his actions against another who faced a similar childhood. Like begets like.

  16. Alex says

    @ Andalusian Dog

    1)Whether or not you like a man (=are gay), not whether or not you are like a man(=are a woman).

    2)Kanye actually complements the gays on picking such a fresh-ass symbol, which was smart of them, but he likes rainbows too and wearing colors too, even though he’s not gay, which is what it gets associated with.

    He also says that all gay people dressing well is a stereotype, that it’s okay to hang out with gay people if you’re secure in your manhood (meaning homophobes aren’t), and that you can’t tell from a persons clothing whether he’s gay or not.
    He seems to be really trying to be nice and make his points, albeit grammatically incorrect. I don’t think he’s being homophobic. You should read the ‘you may have missed’ link.

  17. says

    This is a high-profile artist who recently announced his revelation that hating gays was redundant, and has since made ALL attempts to reach out to the gay community – and they bite his head off?

    The poor guy may not have expressed his thoughts very clearly but HEY! He’s trying…..but to most in the GLBT community this is STILL not good enough for ya.

    Why is it that it must ALWAYS be all or nothing with you guys? You got to learn to crawl before you can walk then run.

    Go ahead girls – keep attacking those trying to reach out to us; you can kick a dog only so many times before he stops coming back….

    I swear, sometimes liberals are just as bad – if not worse – than Rethuglicans.

  18. Andalusian Dog says

    @ ALEX:

    I have read the you may have missed. And so? We’re supposed to throw him a parade, or would that just make him more gay and therefore less a man? Wait, maybe KW should now reappropriate parades for heterosexuals too…From there he could move onto reappropriating anal sex.

    All kidding aside, I read the “you may have missed,” and so bully for Kanye. He’s telling people not to call us FAGS.

    I’m dealing with what he says in this interview, and it IS homophobic, whether you like it or not. Excusing him would be like excusing a husband who tells his friends that beating their wives is wrong, and then goes home and tells his own wife that she has to cook for him because she’s the woman.

  19. Cj says

    For those claiming his comments are homophobic, I would like those individuals to parse through his interview sentence by sentence and back up such claims. After all, the burden of proof is on you, not West.

    Further, for those stating his comments are difficult to understand, as a long time Towleroad commentator, I have read far worse diction from comments on Towleroad. Certainly West’s interview isn’t the best example of American diction, however when properly understood is not the biggest disservice to the homosexual community that others claim. In fact, West is doing more in battling homophobia in the hip hop community than those individuals who simply tear each other apart on Towleroad seem to be doing.

  20. alex says

    I never said we should throw him a parade, but I don’t think your criticism is deserved. You say Kanye’s saying being gay is being “less like a man”, which he didn’t. He’s saying you can’t ‘dress gay’, anymore than you can ‘pose natural’. “you can’t dress whether or not you like a man”, meaning you can’t ‘dress gay’, because being gay is about being someone attracted to the same sex, not your clothing.

    In hip-hop, demanding people to respect gay people and not call them fags is a big thing, and I haven’t heard anyone else doing it either.

    To me, he seems to be really trying to have and spread a positive attitude about gay people in a homophobic environment, I don’t think his dubious choices in wording changes that aspect.

  21. Cj says

    Rudy, redundant in normal usage refers to being or pertaining to repetition. As used by Kayne West, redundant equates to predictability, obviousness in nature and/or unnecessary. Such use of redundant may be atypical, but not necessarily inappropriate.

  22. Cj says

    Alex, very well stated and on point. Sadly, your logic is wasted on some individuals who either resort to name calling and childish antics or with to shout homophobia at everyone and everything they don’t find agreeable to their standards.

  23. DarkSiege says

    Andalusian Dog

    Yeah, I’ll keep scoffing because someone like you deserves no better.

    “My point is that he paints gay people with a rather broad brush, and infers that gay men are not, or at least do not act like, “real” men.”

    Welcome to being a f*cking minority.

    Did you at least read this?

    West said
    “And you know what? That’s when I was ignorant to gays. ‘Cause there’s a lot of gay people who don’t dress good at all. There’s a lot of gay people that I dress way better than.”

    Andalusian Dog said
    “I don’t need to go through archives, I just need what he said right here to prove my point. According to KW, “gay” means “not like a man.” For example: “‘Dressing gay’ you can’t dress like … Your dress don’t give away whether or not you like a man. ”

    Me
    Jesus f*cking Christ. Read into sh*t much? Actually you don’t. Obviously you don’t really take into account the content of nearly every major gay blog. With the exception of a few heavy activist blogs, major gay blogs do a lot of spotlighting on fashion. Personally I don’t give a damn about fashion. There aren’t many moments where I’ve matched in colors, but this is what many gay men are into. I’m black. I don’t care much for hip hop either. It sucks, but what can you do man. The gays like the fashion.

    Andalusian Dog said

    Me: Wait…never mind what you said here. The next couple of paragraphs is just one Queer Nation rant. It died in the 1990s. Get over it.

    Andalusian Dog said
    ” Not to mention you apparently think that all white (?) gay men would excuse another (attractive) white man for being a homophobe, simply because this other person were white and attractive.

    Oh boo hoo. I’ve been lurking on this site for god knows how long and there IS a racial double standard in how major gay blog readers react to famous individuals. Blatant white homophobes will get heat but if they’re young and white, they will get less heated comments and even a couple of admissions of attractions. Black homophobes will get the most damning heat coupled with a bunch of rants on “black culture”. When young white guys say things like what KW said, the thread erupts in crap like “oh, what a friend we have in so and so. And he’s hot!” A black person (mostly heterosexual black men) comes off as gay friendly and if its not Obama, they get little to no comments. And if they say what KW said, he gets trashed. If you think I’m biased against whites because I’m acknowledging the track record then fine. I could give less of a sh*t then you think.

    Andalusian Dog
    “What YOUR statement speaks to, however, is your own internalized homophobia”

    What a f*cking copeout.

  24. Mercurys Wings says

    Kanye West is lamenting the fact that hip hop/rap culture has been so narrowly defined. He’s telling kids there’s no such thing as acting or dressing gay.

    Rainbows, colors, fashion, individuality belong to all of us and not one group. It’s okay to be dress how you want, listen to Kanye and Jay-Z AND Rhianna and Miley Cyrus AND Coldplay and Lady Gaga, for example. It’s the synergy between suburban and urban street cool, pop and hip hop that kids that grew up on MTV and BET easily get.

    Remember his audience — he’s speaking mainly to kids like he was — young, urban, minorities who probably fight the stigma of “acting too white” or “too gay.”

    He has not said there’s anything wrong with being gay. He’s targeting hip hop/rap… you don’t have to be a thug or gangsta or hypermasculine. You can be inclusive.

  25. Ugh says

    Most of the people here are retarded. Look at Kanye’s quotes and blog posts – are you really going to argue with his semantics? It’s fairly obvious his general message was a positive one, and bringing societal constructs, memes, sexual narratives, etc. into the argument is giving his intelligence far too much credit. Pissy queens, get the fuck over yourselves. You tear apart actual GAY MEN on this blog daily, so I’m hardly surprised a heterosexual ally would be any different. My, you’re all so ‘tolerant.’

  26. Mercurys Wings says

    It’s also great for business. Pop, rock, hip hop, street culture, gay culture, Euro-trendiness and fashion. Worked wonders for Madonna, and he gets it.

  27. RJ says

    @ANDALUSIAN DOG…

    Interpreting Kanye-speak may be challenging but THIS statement is probably one of the easiest to understand:

    “Your dress don’t give away whether or not you like a man.”

    He’s saying that one cannot tell from the clothes a guy wears whether he is or is not attracted to men. I don’t know how you can possibly think he’s actually saying “gay means not like a man” from that statement.

  28. rudy says

    CJ, That is just nonsense. Have we reached the nadir of the dumbing down of this society that we can now re-interpret words on a personal whim to give them a new meaning? Aytpical meanings are only acceptable if the speaker knows the correct meaning and is deliberately “breaking the rule” of correct usage to make a point. It must be obvious to the speaker and the intended audience. Otherwise it is merely gibberish.

    There is no indication that Kayne even attempted to do so; he was simply inarticulate in using words beyond his comprehension and mastery. Your attempt at after the fact reinterpretation, while gallant, is misguided. So long as words still have meaning, language and grammar are tools used to communicate ideas. There is no need for “relates to” ex post facto analysis of words in isolation to fit one’s own biases. That is condescending and particularly ill advised when discussion controversial topics. Hence, the ensuing discussion on this thread.

  29. cj says

    Rudy, give it a rest child. Resorting to diction critique through contrasting (supposed) condescending and pretentious language is sophomoric at best. Glossing over the conveyed positive message through distractions cloaked in grammar lessons wreaks of immaturity and does not deserve recognition. Using a thesaurus is simple, maturity is a more difficult concept for some.

    Let’s get back on point to Kayne West’s commentary and focus less on picking each other apart. I swear I am growing tired of the prissy and obnoxious antics of some of the gay community. Get over yourselves and get on board with the program. The more we tear each other down instead of uniting for the greater good, the more we fall further from grace.

  30. Chris says

    Also,I must say I DO NOT dress in clothes like that.I wear button down shirts clean pressed jeans,slacks polos,sports blazers,I rarely wear T-shirts when out somewhere.Around the house yes,Its like,for example:At a nightclub here in NYC while some gays are wearing tight t-shirts and skin tight hip hugging jeans and glitter.Im more of the clean button down shirt and clean pressed jeans with casual shoes.I can go to a str8 club and blend right in because I have no stereotypical flamboyant feminine qualities.I refuse to hang with catty prissy fems because they always tend to have an attitude (which I am way to grown up for the tired teenage mean girl drama)Its all in the presentation people.Get with it.You present yourself in that stereotypical manner,thats how most people will interpret the whole group.While some gays bide by stereotypes,I break them.Get over yourselves and grow the fuck up.

  31. Godfrey says

    WOW…..!

    I am a British black male (mixed-race but who is counting!), and it always puzzles me why “some” African-Americans take such bride in their lack of ability to speak English, correctly!

    I thought this guys mother was a school principle! If anybody understands what he just said-could you please translate it for us.

    Thanks!

  32. Godfrey says

    ………And to those on the panel that think a critical review of his language skills is not warranted: maybe they need to review the latest academic scores of African-Americans.

    If you do not speak and understand English properly-how do you expect to achieve such as Obama!

  33. says

    “He’s just a talentless, Lenny Cravitz wanna-be. Since Kanye has NOTHING except an imitated look so he’s going to keep gaping his pie hole so that he remains in the media.”

    Lenny Kravitz wannabe!? PLEASE! Lenny Kravitz is an “every white 60/70’s’s rock star with a dash of Jimi Hendrix” wannabe! He has NEVER had an original idea in his life. Even in his “Romeo Blue” period he was, at best, derivative.

    I have to admit, I have never really cared for Kanye. After this I see that he’s at least trying to open up the minds of his millions of fans. Whether you like it or not (A.D.) he is a huge influence on the youth of this country and has a much bigger affect on what people think of Gays than that bunch of losers who ran No on 8.

    Maybe our “leaders” should have thought to have people like West make commercials against Prop 8?

    They were probably too busy listening to their Melissa Etheridge albums to even notice that they had a potential game changer in people like Kanye. With his ego, Kanye probably would’ve been happy to do it.

    GODFREY, I get your point, however, until The UK gets an Obama or Oprah or, well, ANY Black person of equal stature to so many of us African Americans, I’ll kindly ask you to preach at home.

  34. RP says

    Remember that guy in high school who dressed different ’cause he thought he was deep and on another level than all the other students… but he was really just a socially inept clueless nerd?

    Yeah.

  35. Giovanni says

    Dude is trying and if you can’t see it it may be because you don’t want to. We all have our blind spots…

    The Lenny Kravitz (it’s with a K not a C)reference in an earlier comment is just outright foolishness. Kanye may be a lot of things but talenless is not one of them. I suggest you give another listen to some of his lyrics/rhymes.

    I agree the rainbow is fresh which is why I am an equal opportunity fucker! Vive la diversite!

  36. rudy says

    CJ, “wrecks”? Did you mean ‘reeks’? Moreover, your bald reference to a “fall from grace” comes without context. Accordingly, your rhetoric is almost as impenetrable as Kayne’s putative support for gays.

    Who is dispensing such “grace”? What is required to earn it? Your approval, alone? Have you set yourself up as the gay diety? Do tell! Don’t you just know that we graceless gays are pining for a self-appointed saviour.

    Nevertheless, it is abundantly clear that CJ and Chris add so much to the discussion. And, no darlings, I am not about to get aboard the “program” of one who has not mastered the use of apostrophes, colons, contractions, capitalization, punctuation, and proper word usage.

    As for the “pressed jeans,” thanks for giving the rest of us an all too clear signal (n.b., compare usage of ‘to’ ‘too’ and ‘two’) to avoid you. Your pressed jeans are just as effective as would be an ‘L” tatooed on your forehead.

  37. Rikard says

    Someone please tell lil mr west the Paris pic is so tame it is lame. Take a look at any pic of George Clinton from the last 40 years for a lesson on how it is done. Want to take back the rainbow? Try tearing the roof of the mutha first babe.

  38. cj says

    “particularly ill advised when discussion controversial topics.”

    I’m sorry Rudy, did you mean “discussing”? Your ignorant attempts at discrediting me based on my typo’s and opinions on what is correct diction is laughable. Grow up and find another sandbox to play.

  39. Cj says

    oh, and I forgot to mention, thanks for proving my point. You know, the point about prissy and obnoxious comments tearing each other apart instead of working together as a community. Ask yourself Rudy, why is it you get into numerous fights with commentators on Towleroad? Why is it you take discussions to a personal and inappropriate level? We’re done here, I’m finished playing your reindeer games.

  40. Thomas says

    Rudy got pwned! That’s slang for put in your place Rudy. Good questions CJ, Rudy has some inner demons he needs to face. Rudy has a history of getting into off topic fights with a lot of people on here. Someone please drop a house on this biatch.

  41. says

    I love Kanye West. He’s a brilliant talent and a colorful personality who genuinely tries to do good. When anybody else in music today does as much to fight homophobia as he does, I’ll be interested in parsing his speech for anti-gay hints.

    He’s a hero.

  42. Lt. Marshall says

    I am pretty “secure in my manhood too.” So secure I am proud to be an out soldier, and a bottom at that. Living int he bowels of Detroit my whole life I can decipher this rubbish and that is all it is. It is not supportive or friendly, it is simply heterosexist rhetoric at best. The notion that I am better than gays because I am “secure in my manhood.”

    I am sorry but a real man or women, is a person who puts their life on the line for others and for their friends and family, not some hippity-hopping wanna-be ‘gansta’ who ruined a great Katie Perry song, with his rubbish.

  43. Lt. Marshall says

    @Alex

    The rainbow is not a “fresh-ass Symbol” the symbol dates all the way back to the late 40’s for LGBT. That symbol is ours as a symbol of standing proud to be who we are in a heterosexist run society that discriminates against us. It is NOT the symbol of the straights. For them to say that they want to take the symbol back is a severe insult on those who suffer and suffered under their idiocy and religious based bigotry.

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