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1. Great - we can walk by an empty White House and march to an empty Capitol building. This is going to be a colossal waste of time to stroke a few egos.

   Posted by: DCS | Sep 29, 2009 5:54:02 PM

   
   

2. I want to be excited. I do. The last March on Washington turned into a big parade, with everyone standing on the sidelines as if waiting for a float. We needed those people to march, but there they stood, in their short-shorts and tiny tops. It was frustrating and fruitless. I hate to be a cynic, but it doesn't appear if President Obama will be at home anyway. Candidate Obama would have led the parade, what a difference a year makes.

   Posted by: Randalf | Sep 29, 2009 6:26:49 PM

   
   

3. Damn, DCS, why so cynical?

   To quote Margaret Mead: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

   Posted by: Feral | Sep 29, 2009 6:27:48 PM

   
   

4. If the Teabaggers have a bigger turnout than the gays, I'm blaming jaded, useless queens like many of the one who post here.

   Posted by: Gregoire | Sep 29, 2009 6:42:24 PM

   
   

5. Damn! Seeing this route map is getting me excited about the march! I am really looking forward to this event. My husband and I are traveling from New Jersey to be a part of this. It is going to be historic!!

   I have a dream that one day down in Alabama little gay boys and gay girls will be able to join hands with little straight boys and straight girls as sisters and brothers.

   Posted by: Kelly in Atantic City | Sep 29, 2009 7:00:18 PM

   
   

6. Gregoire, you really should blame low turnout on Cleve and his enormous ego. 4 months is not enough lead time. And you have to pay more than lip service to grassroots organizing if you really want to fill the Mall.

   Posted by: 24play | Sep 29, 2009 7:28:37 PM

   
   

7. @24Play - Martin Luther King put his march together in 6 weeks.

   Posted by: Trooper | Sep 29, 2009 8:15:03 PM

   
   

8. I am way excited now, too. My husband and I are bringing a bunch of people down with us including our 13 year old niece who's looking forward to her first march against injustice. Its gonna be awesome!

   Posted by: Jersey | Sep 29, 2009 9:33:39 PM

   
   

9. 24Play; OK, I have to know, what is the REAL source of your anger? It's just odd how very angry you are about people trying to do good. What is the personal axe that you grind so readily rooted in? You and Cleve have a bad second date in '74? Your prom dress got covered in pigs blood in front of your crush? I'm trying to understand. Really. What is your damage Heather?

   What's your real name? Mine is here. Hell you can find me on Facebook:DEREKWASHINGTON314
   Email: derekisademocrat@gmail.com

   Now, your turn. Man up. Lead or get out of the way. You're insulting not just me (and trust me, I can dish it and take it), but, you're insulting college kids and homeless queer youth and LGBT people who are disabled and Transgender folks and Moms and Dads....the list could go on forever because for the very first time, EVERYONE is included. Why does that bother you so?

   It's almost like somebody dropped a house on your sister.

   Posted by: Derek Washington | Sep 29, 2009 9:58:57 PM

   
   

10. @Trooper...

    MLK had the support of numerous Black churches and whatnot to assist him in putting together a march in six weeks. When this was announced, almost every gay group said "not enough time to put together a good march". Don't act like MLK did this all alone the way Cleve is. That is utterly INACCURATE.

    Posted by: DR | Sep 29, 2009 10:29:32 PM

    
    

11. Sorry to disappoint you Derek, but I have no standing beef with Cleve. I've never met the man. Don't think I even know anyone who has. And up until June my opinion of him was generally favorable: longtime activist, trusted aid to Harvey Milk, originator of the Quilt. My only negative perspective was a suspicion that he could be a little difficult and self-important, as demonstrated by the unfortunate endgame between him and the Names Project.

    You really should know what the basis of my criticism of the March is since I've elaborated on it here on Towleroad several times. But I'll be happy to repeat myself.

    1) Four months is not nearly enough time to organize a massive, successful LGBT march on Washington. Almost every gay activist of any stature said so immediately after Cleve announced. But Cleve stubbornly refused to consider moving the date.

    2) A massive surge in grassroots activism is both the primary benefit to be gained from holding a march AND an absolute necessity to organizing one. Cleve's stated goal of growing infrastructure in all 435 Congressional districts shows he gets the first half of that statement, yet he's refused to do the outreach and planning required to actually make it happen. And Cleve seems to have no grasp whatsoever of the critical importance of the second half of the statement—that grassroots organizing is what makes or breaks a march.

    3) Most efforts of LGBT activism are usually complementary. Efforts on an issue by one group or individual—no matter how poorly conceived or executed—rarely crowd out
    the actions of another. But a national LGBT march on Washington is different. Because of the scope and scale of such marches, they rarely happen more than once every 5–10 years. So by singlehandedly calling for a March, Cleve has essentially commandeered the movement, and effectively cock-blocked other activists. Cleve's poorly conceived, poorly organized, selfishly irresponsible and unresponsive effort is going to prevent more strategic-minded activists from holding a well-planned, well-attended, propitiously timed national march that pays more than lip service to inclusiveness and widespread grassroots organizing anytime soon. So there is a huge opportunity cost to the community.

    4) And finally, there's the issue of moral hazard. Because there is such a huge opportunity cost being exacted, it's absolutely critical that Cleve not manage to somehow escape having all of the blame for a disastrous march land squarely at his feet. Cleve needs to be universally and loudly criticized for his arrogance and stupidity, so that any needy, semifamous queer with an outsize sense of self-importance who happens to find himself with a microphone in his hand will think twice before selfishly hijacking the movement for his own small purposes. Again.

    
    Now, Derek, if you want, you can continue to ignore those perfectly legitimate criticisms of Cleve and the March. You can dismiss them all with the usual glib and erroneous accusation that queers who aren't supporting Cleve's efforts aren't doing a damn thing to advance the cause of LGBT rights. You can keep mouthing platitudes like, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." Or you can take a few moments to consider that every member of the community has a stake in a national march on Washington, and that we have every right to do everything in our power to stop or at least protest this poorly timed, poorly conceived, and largely ego-driven effort.

    Posted by: 24play | Sep 29, 2009 11:32:44 PM

    
    

12. 24play....tell it like it T-I-is!

    Posted by: Mark | Sep 30, 2009 12:26:14 AM

    
    

13. 24play, FINALLY you laid out your points. I have no problem with that.

    Notice, civil discourse. I'm cool with that.

    Now, I don't know what the outcome will be. I do know that a whole lot of people were fed up with sitting around waiting for national organizations to tell us what to do and when to do it. If this was Cleve's ego, you couldn't get me to cross astreet for it. This is for my soul.

    For many years I was a high flying, drug using slut. I made too much money and had no responsibilty other than to show up at a studio and tell people what to wear, stand and do. I had the cool digs and the Audi. I sat front row during fashion week and hired and fired assisants based on my mood.

    I got HIV/AIDS. Full stop. Lost EVERYTHING. Except my mom and dad. He died. I lost over 100lbs and ended up on my moms couch for two years of hell. I'm not blaming anyone, I went out and got HIV through my stupidity. I have it SO much better than people who don't have family and killer friends. I'm cool.

    I got involved in politics through Hillary and then Obama. I found myself again. I went to a domestic partnership workshop and realized I was second class citizen by law in Nevada. Fuck that.

    Now, I stand before some of these organizations that haven't endorsed and do you know what happens? I walk into a room full of white guys who text while I'm making my case and say , and these are quotes:

    1/ If we support you what do we get in return?
    2/ What we are looking for is your email list,but, really only the youth part.
    3/ We've been doing this for 13 years and you think you're just going to come along and change the way we've been operating? I don't think so.
    4/ I am not concerned about Maine, but, supporting your march makes it look like I'm putting my energy into something that a lot of people think should be put into Maine.
    5/ A lot of cash is being diverted from established organizations by this.

    AND THIS ONE: "I think it's nice that Cleve sent a Black guy to get our sympathy."

    I too thought that by virtue of my being Gay, my "brothers" had my back. Let me tell you all something. I have never been so fucked up in the head as I have been since I began seeing how the sausage is actually made. It's not pretty and until you see it for yourself, I can understand that you probably won't believe me. I have no reason to lie. I am begging people for money to get to DC for myself and others who can't afford it. It's not money going to Cleve, it's not money that would have gone to Maine. AND it's 90% from straight people.

    So, just know 99% of the people participating in the NEM are pure of heart and it's just not something you can understand until the calling to dfo something hits you.

    I mean that without rancor. It's just my truth.

    Posted by: Derek Washington | Sep 30, 2009 1:05:53 AM

    
    

14. Those who blind themselves to the March's obvious flaws and who refuse to see the patent self-promotion of Cleve Jones throughout the website and associated marketing collateral hurt the movement for equality in their own way.

    One need look no further than the letter to President Obama. It is signed by one person: Cleve Jones as a co-chair of the event. No one else. An open letter to the President of the United States signed by one organizer. That's ego. At the very least, letters are signed by all co-chairs.

    And the March has now become secondary to the establishment of a new organization, Equality Across America, whose chief goal at the moment seems to consist of convincing people that we need a new organization. “No More Fractions of Equality” as a slogan? Fractions or factions?

    Standard tactic: start an ego-driven organization which purports to offer a new paradigm in the drive for equality. Then characterize those who see the cult of personality inherent in the effort as heretics, self-loathing queers, etc.. Those of us who have moved the struggle forward for decades, attended march after march, rally after rally, celebrated the victories and mourned the defeats, and written check after check after check to causes, candidates, organizations, charities, etc. take a rather dim view of anyone who puts personality before cause and who draws parallels between his event and the most important rally for civil rights ever seen.

    The very fact that Jones and his team are publishing article defending March attendance speaks volumes. This event has not caught on in the community at large and it's not simply apathy. As in politics, if you’re already on the defensive, you’re fucked.

    I will show up, in part because I support a number of the organizations which will participate and because it will be an embarrassment if the crowd consists of less than 10,000 - 20,000. But the fact that the March's chosen hotels - the ones with discounted rates specifically available to participants - aren't sold out a week before is a huge red flag.

    Want to make this march meaningful? Have a weekend of workshops but drop the self-promoting speakers and rallying cries. Do something different. Have a five-minute period of silence in contrast to the screaming tea-baggers. Focus on people of faith. Change hearts and minds.

    If it's just more screaming and bog-standard slogans, there's nothing new or newsworthy. If you can't make an impact through the sight of hundreds of thousands of people filling the Mall, you'd better think of other ways to get your message out in the national media.

    I do not see that level of imagination in the current organization. Somebody had better figure this out fast, although there is nothing on the website or brought up in the meetings I attend to suggest anything other than the usual march events.
    

    Posted by: Josh G. | Sep 30, 2009 3:11:02 AM

    
    

15. Self-loathing queens can't stand anyone to feel hopeful, they want everyone to feel as hateful and filled with self-disgust as they are. They are worse than the haters and the homophobes. They spew vemon, it's all they have. Ignore them, let them choke on their own bile. If you want to be active, then be active. Join the march or one of the many events planned in support of the march.

    Posted by: Wayne | Sep 30, 2009 6:43:06 AM

    
    

16. Somebody is really jealous of Cleve Jones. But I don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate like Cleve and David Mixner have. Jealous little bitches filled with hate and envy and a whole lot of unwarranted self-importance. You want to knock on Cleve's acheivements? What have you EVER done to even come close to his advocacy? ANYTHING? No. NOTHING. Jealous bitches, plain and simple (accent on the simple)

    Posted by: Wayne | Sep 30, 2009 6:46:10 AM

    
    

17. No one is stepping up to to the plate? Who decided that we NEED a large national march and rally in DC that will have zero impact? The people who have stepped up to the plate are those people working feverishly to protect and gain rights in Maine, Maryland, Washington, California, DC, New York, etc. THAT is the important work. THOSE are the plates that really need stepping up to.

    There are "big" "important" national events on the national mall nearly every weekend here in DC. It's empowering to those people in attendance, but does nothing much. In fact, there are even OTHER "big" "important" events on the mall that weekend being put on by other groups!

    Posted by: Tom A | Sep 30, 2009 10:14:21 AM

    
    

18. Don't give me "FINALLY," Derek. I've laid out my position in detail several times on here over the past few months, including in several exchanges with you, the latest of which took place earlier this week.

    More like, FINALLY you're paying attention to what I've written.

    I fully support, and would have gladly attended, a well-organized LGBT March on Washington during Obama's first term. Unfortunately, I cannot support this March.

    Posted by: 24play | Sep 30, 2009 10:40:15 AM

    
    

19. The March is scheduled . . . The March is going to happen . . . Either get busy working to make it a success . . . or get out of the way and let the rest of us do our work. I'm sick and tired of hearing wimps and whiners chant "No we can't." I've been at this for 40 years now and don't know the meaning of "can't"! Much respect to all who choose to struggle in good times and bad!!

    Posted by: Mark Fischer | Sep 30, 2009 12:15:50 PM

    
    

20. +1,500 from Dallas going! There will be 400,000 in DC next Weekend. Join us to make it 1/2 million.

    We are going to change a lot of minds. Obama will take notice. This is the event that gives us our full equality now! Thank-you Cleve Jones - Harvey taught you well.

    Posted by: Jame's Gang Dallas | Oct 3, 2009 4:03:53 PM

    
    

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