California | Federal Prop 8 Trial | Gay Marriage | News | Proposition 8

Prop 8 Attorney Cites 'Brokeback Mountain' and 'Will & Grace' as Evidence Gay People Do Not Face Discrimination


From Day 3 of the Prop 8 trial via LGBT POV. Karen Ocamb citing some liveblogging of the trial by Davina Kotulski:



Thompson, the smug attorney for the Proponents of Prop 8, is taking the position that gays are not being discriminated against any more and so that cannot be the reason that Prop 8 passed.

He makes a point and then asks Professor Chauncey if that is correct.

He’s mentioning Will and Grace, the movie Philadelphia, and Brokeback mountain as evidence that LGBT people are not being discriminated again.


Did I miss something? Nancy Pelosi is our fierce advocate?

Thompson says she is.

Thompson-“Homosexuals couldn’t get hearings in the 1950s, but today you have Barney Frank and he’s a powerful ally of gays and lesbians, correct?”

Thompson, “You have AIDS funding, isn’t that important to gays and lesbians, correct?”

Thompson, “Thousands of employers have non-discrimination policies,


The citation was confirmed via Twitter by the American Foundation for Equal Rights (top).

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  1. This is as good as the lame answer in pre-trial by the Prop 8 attorney that he did not know of any negative consequences of same-sex marriage.

    Barney Frank may have called Scalia a homophobe but nobody's ever said he's a stupid homophobe. C'mon anti-gay folks, help poor old Scalia out. Are we banning same-sex marriage because it's immoral and the protect children libel (at least Scalia can go for that) or because Will and Grace was a hit TV show (only Carrie what-her-name would buy that one)?

    But thanks for putting it in the court record.

    Posted by: Observer1000 | Jan 13, 2010 2:24:57 PM

  2. Sorry for the Guiliani moment: I meant the Prop 8 attorney did not know of any negative consequences of same-sex marriage on hetero marriage.

    Posted by: Observer1000 | Jan 13, 2010 2:28:03 PM

  3. Well,
    Philadelphia was about a gay man with HIV facing discrimination in the workplace.
    Brokeback was about 2 men who were so in fear of their lives that they had to meet in secret, and ended with the audience believing one of them had been murdered after being found out.
    Great examples by the HATERS!!!

    Posted by: Rolph | Jan 13, 2010 2:36:43 PM

  4. Holy fucking shit that is revolting.

    I just don't see how they can even hope to win with crap like that.

    Posted by: anon | Jan 13, 2010 2:40:20 PM

  5. I with JR on this. They are gonna throw this one and let it go to the US Supremes.

    Posted by: Tralfaz | Jan 13, 2010 3:01:18 PM

  6. Are these quotes for real?... It sounds like stoned schoolboy chat...

    Posted by: John Normile | Jan 13, 2010 3:22:21 PM

  7. The counterargument here is not in the story. It is in the fact that two straight actors play these roles. Not that sexuality has anything to do with role playing there just aren't any out gay male actors of the calibre needed to get projects funded or be the commercial success this one was. Oh, and one of the stars of W & G remains in the closet to avoid employment discrimination.

    Posted by: Trasker | Jan 13, 2010 4:02:07 PM

  8. haha whoever said someone was murdered in Brokeback Mountain needs to go back and re watch that movie, no one was murder. Lol! Seriously what movie were you watching?

    Anyhoo I agree this is a stupid argument by people who don't understand the gay community, at all.

    Posted by: Josh | Jan 13, 2010 4:21:00 PM

  9. lol

    stupidity knows no bounds

    just like "Chico & the Man" is evidence that Mexican-Americans had equally respect as affluent whites in the 70's


    stupid stupid stupid

    Posted by: steve | Jan 13, 2010 4:24:32 PM

  10. I say "Keep brining this shit on." Interesting that they are so defensless when they don't have a scary 30-second tv spot to spook the shit out of whoever is watching... "The gays are coming for your children!"

    Posted by: SF_Scottie | Jan 13, 2010 4:24:32 PM

  11. I'm really hoping that they formulated their Brokeback Mountain argument at the last moment as opposed to believing that it holds any kind of strength.

    I also question what on earth either have to do with gay marriage. Effectively that argument is saying if you're not discriminated against in one area then it's perfectly fine to be discriminated against in another area.

    Truly ridiculous.

    Posted by: Michelle | Jan 13, 2010 4:52:22 PM

  12. "haha whoever said someone was murdered in Brokeback Mountain needs to go back and re watch that movie"

    Right. The nice men with the tire irons were just lending a hand.

    Posted by: BobN | Jan 13, 2010 4:58:51 PM

  13. Um, I believe Will & Grace, Philadelphia, and Brokeback Mountain all involved gay men. So, um, what about the lesbian plantiffs? Seriously, these lawyers aren't even succeeding in misusing their own tortured logic.

    Posted by: eastsidekate | Jan 13, 2010 5:11:40 PM

  14. @ Jr and fans of Jr

    We're all intelligent...

    What do you think their arguments can be..logically and rationally?

    What more can they say? What IS their argument?

    Posted by: Rowan | Jan 13, 2010 5:27:53 PM

  15. "Right. The nice men with the tire irons were just lending a hand."

    Uh, the nice men with the tire irons didn't exist. They were Ennis Del Mar's imagination and what he always assumed would happen to gays, hence why he refused to settle down with Jack.

    Jeez, did people really not get this movie?

    Posted by: crispy | Jan 13, 2010 5:44:04 PM

  16. "And what was the ending for those characters?

    Ah, if only that HAD been the ending for "Will and Grace." Maybe some kind of four-person murder-suicide deal?

    Posted by: bobbyjoe | Jan 13, 2010 5:45:38 PM

  17. The defense argument seems so weak because there is no good argument. There is no super argument to be revealed at a later time. We hear these voodoo logic reasons all the time by people who cannot accept that the law must applied equally to all citizens because that’s the law- it’s called the 14th amendment. And just because the law has never been applied equally does not mean it should never be applied equally. And applying the law equally is not an ‘activist judgment’. And just because I’ve been called faggot a zillion times and never lynched doesn’t make me want to trade-in my civil rights for the hope of a more tolerant society.

    Posted by: One of Many Mikes | Jan 13, 2010 7:30:56 PM

  18. The ironic thing is that the same folks who now cite Will and Grace as an example of faggot equality, were the same folks who threatened boycotts against advertisers who dared to place ads in that show with the perverts.

    Posted by: homer | Jan 13, 2010 8:20:49 PM

  19. So, is this Thompson person spending the night in jail? Because I don't know any way you can say all those things without showing anything but contempt. Especially the AIDS part. Wow, does he sound arrogant.

    Posted by: Garst | Jan 13, 2010 9:02:38 PM

  20. I concur with the impression registered above, that the State of California has decided to lose the respect of opinion vendors in aid of appearing the victim of a corrupt venue on appeal. But I have no respect for the contempt heaped here upon the intelligence of this strategem.

    The State's arguments in favour of the innocuousness of its oppression -- to the effect, that the oppressing majority doesn't hold its cruelty against the repressed minority -- is something of a lark ascending into the rarified ether of Kafka and Lewis Carroll, to be shown to be so unresentful of one's victims. But everyone knows how long the knives are, which the Bush Family Court has sharpened against any movement toward justice in this nation, whether for equal pay for equal work or for actual school desegregation promised 56 years ago. The Bush Family Court has a way of synthesizing a justification for the abuse of liberty without even being asked, as it did in seating the Pretender under Justice Scalia's stark assertion of his obvious "right" before the case was even argued. We will get more injustice from these clowns, and it will help them, and nourish them, to be able to say how happy the State did appear to be, in its necessary work of denying the equal protection of the laws to residents of California.

    Posted by: Carter Nicholas, Charlottesville | Jan 13, 2010 9:03:07 PM

  21. Whereas if Thompson cited the more recent "Milk" and its Oscar wins as proof that anti-gay discrimination is a thing of the past, he would have been openly laughed out of court.

    Posted by: Peter | Jan 14, 2010 11:53:46 AM

  22. Really? Thats their defense strategy?Its amazing the moronic lengths the 'phobes will go to.

    Last time I checked, "BBM" was about one man's inability to deal with his sexuality like an adult. He suffered from a severe case of internalized homophobia which is the direct result of a society that treats us as second class citizens and denies us equal rights and privileges, and discrimination on a personal level in our day to day lives.

    "W&G" is exactly what its title suggests. (the show was not called "Will & Jack"). It was a show that was "about" a gay man and his straight girlfriend. However, the only relationship that got any substantial airtime was W&G's. And they had to balance Jack's flamboyance with Wills sterility so they wouldn't scare away straight viewers.

    So, yeah, you're right. We are treated totally equally. Gosh, thanks for opening my eyes and helping me see the light.

    Posted by: FQ | Jan 14, 2010 4:30:19 PM

  23. @Sudschick: THANK YOU!!! You are correct - Prop 8 is about equal rights, not gay marriage. If this nonsense becomes law, we are on a slippery slope that could negatively affect ANYone. Everybody - gay, straight, whatever - should recognize the danger. Prop 8 must go away - for ALL our sakes. The "yes" people are using preposterous arguments like this because they have nothing else. They are bigots - and what makes a bigot? Fear and ignorance. It's that simple. They just need to open their eyes and recognize what this is really about.

    Posted by: harddavid | Sep 14, 2010 1:07:14 AM

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