Barack Obama | Bullying | Don't Ask, Don't Tell | Military | News

Obama Discusses Bullying, 'DADT', Whether Being Gay is a Choice, at MTV Town Hall

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At an MTV Town Hall with young people this afternoon, Obama faced a number of questions on LGBT issues.

One question dealt with online harassment, and bullying (transcript via the White House): 

Q    Hello, my name is Allie Vonparis (ph).  I’m a junior at University of Maryland in College Park and also -- this is more of a personal question -- but I’m also a victim of anonymous, hurtful, degrading harassment over the Internet.  Police and university officials have been unable to help put a stop to it.  My question to you is, what can you do, if anything, to put a stop to these vicious attacks over the Internet while preserving our rights to freedom of speech?  I also ask this in light of the recent -- the tragic deaths recently on the news of young people who are bullied and harassed online.  Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT:  Well, it’s a great question.  And obviously our heart breaks when we read about what happened at Rutgers, when we read about some of these other young people who are doing nothing to deserve the kind of harassment and bullying that just completely gets out of hand. 

 And so we actually, the Department of Education, has initiated a -- we had a summit a couple of weeks ago just to talk about this issue:  How can we help local and state officials set up structures where young people feel safe, where there’s a trigger that goes off when this kind of bullying starts taking place so that immediately school officials can nip it at the bud?  So there are a range of cooperative efforts that we can initiate.

Now, in terms of the Internet, you’re right, it is a challenging thing because the Internet -- part of the power of the Internet is, is that information flows out there and it’s generally not censored and it’s generally not controlled by any single authority.

But at your school, for example, I think there is nothing wrong with instituting policies that say that harassment of any form, whether it comes through the Internet or whether it happens to you face to face, is unacceptable; that we’ve got zero tolerance when it comes to sexual harassment, we have zero tolerance when it comes to harassing people because of their sexual orientation, because of their race, because of their ethnicity.

And I think that making sure that every institution, whether it’s our schools, our government, our places of work, take these issues seriously and know that in some cases there are laws against this kind of harassment and that prosecutions will take place when somebody violates those laws.  Sending that message of seriousness is something that I think we all have to do.

 Now, the last point I would make is that the law is a powerful thing but the law doesn’t always change what’s in people’s hearts.  And so all of us have an obligation to think about how we’re treating other people.  And what we may think is funny or cute may end up being powerfully hurtful.  And I’ve got two daughters, 12 and nine, and Michelle and I spend a lot of time talking to them about putting themselves in other people’s shoes and seeing through other people’s eyes.  And if somebody is different from you, that’s not something you criticize, that’s something that you appreciate.

And so I think there’s also a values component to this that all of us have to be in a serious conversation about.  Because ultimately peer pressure can lead people to bully, but peer pressure can also say bullying is not acceptable.

Another question, via Twitter, asked "Dear President Obama, do you think being gay or trans is a choice?"

Obama answered: 

"I am not obviously -- I don't profess to be an expert. This is a layperson's opinion. But I don't think it's a choice. I think people are born with a certain makeup, and we're all children of God. We don't make determinations about who we love. And that's why I think that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is wrong."

White House senior adviser Valerie Jarrett apologized earlier today for language she used in a Washington Post interview which referred to being gay as a "lifestyle choice".

A third LGBT-related question dealt with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell:"

Q    I voted for you in the last elections based on your alleged commitment to equality for all Americans, gay and straight, and I wanted to know where you stood on “don’t ask, don’t tell.”  I know that you’ve mentioned that you want the Senate to repeal it before you do it yourself.  My question is you as the President can sort of have an executive order that ends it once and for all, as Harry -- as Truman did for the integration of the military in ‘48.  So I wonder why don’t you do that if this is a policy that you’re committed to ending.

THE PRESIDENT:  First of all, I haven’t “mentioned” that I’m against “don’t ask, don’t ask” -- I have said very clearly, including in a State of the Union address, that I’m against “don’t ask, don’t tell” and that we’re going to end this policy.  That’s point number one.

Point number two, the difference between my position right now and Harry Truman’s was that Congress explicitly passed a law that took away the power of the executive branch to end this policy unilaterally.  So this is not a situation in which with a stroke of a pen I can simply end the policy. 

Now, having said that, what I have been able to do is for the first time get the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mike Mullen, to say he thinks the policy should end.  The Secretary of Defense has said he recognizes that the policy needs to change.  And we, I believe, have enough votes in the Senate to go ahead and remove this constraint on me, as the House has already done, so that I can go ahead and end it.

Now, we recently had a Supreme Court -- a district court case that said, “don’t ask, don’t tell” is unconstitutional.  I agree with the basic principle that anybody who wants to serve in our armed forces and make sacrifices on our behalf, on behalf of our national security, anybody should be able to serve.  And they shouldn’t have to lie about who they are in order to serve.

And so we are moving in the direction of ending this policy.  It has to be done in a way that is orderly, because we are involved in a war right now.  But this is not a question of whether the policy will end.  This policy will end and it will end on my watch.  But I do have an obligation to make sure that I am following some of the rules.  I can’t simply ignore laws that are out there.  I’ve got to work to make sure that they are changed.

Video on DADT question, AFTER THE JUMP...

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Comments

  1. I can't even look at this man anymore. I get physically sick just looking at him.

    Posted by: The REalist | Oct 14, 2010 9:45:44 PM


  2. Lots of freeper operatives stirring up shit as usual.

    Along with the standard clutch of perennial malcontents and keyboard guerillas.

    The former delight in fomenting discontent which could push the Democrats out of office and the latter wouldn't be happy if President Obama married them personally ("I hated that tie...and besides, I'll never forgive him for Rick Warren.")

    Get over yourselves.

    The guy is a politician. He's human. He's flawed.

    You support and work with your allies even when they disappoint you. Life is unfair.

    But this all-or-nothing bullshit perpetuated by two ends of the political spectrum is a colossal waste of time and energy.

    Posted by: Rob G. | Oct 14, 2010 10:10:54 PM


  3. Obama the best failure ever elected to office.

    It is in "their makeup". Cannot even say it as people are born gay.

    Sick of this lame ass monkey.

    Posted by: Martin | Oct 14, 2010 10:54:23 PM


  4. Rob G., Of course anyone who expresses the slightest hint of dissatisfaction with President Messiah is a freeper, malcontent, or guerilla. Because when you can't defend him, the only other option is to attack those who criticize him. I bet we're all racists too, right?

    Obama is not an ally.

    Posted by: Max | Oct 14, 2010 10:57:56 PM


  5. Oh, and by the way, this is from today's Washington Post:

    "The Pentagon announced Thursday that it will comply with a court order to stop enforcing its "don't ask, don't tell" policy barring gays from serving openly in the military."

    Posted by: Paul R | Oct 14, 2010 10:59:59 PM


  6. This website is seriously made up of the bitches people known in the gay community. Good lord, nothing pleases you.

    Posted by: VAVA | Oct 14, 2010 11:31:09 PM


  7. A few things. One, several posters have mentioned that fact that Barack Obama is African American as if his race should make him more understanding. Like white gays are automatically sensitive to race because of sexual orientation? Please. I'm sure you'll find LOTS of gay people of color to sign onto that notion. I don't expect anyone to be more sensitive because of some innate or socially constructed characteristic. If you disagree with his position, I'd just leave it at that. If you want to put his race in it, that's fine, but don't be surprised when someone throws your race into the hopper to explain your antipathy to him.

    Two, Joe wrote "as he [Obama] interprets the constitution and sees Executive power . . . it is not his place to override decisions of congress unilaterally. He is basically espousing a view of the Constitution that rejects the Bush (and really Woo) view of executive power being unlimited." Joe, I think this is something really important. After the Bush years where you a had an executive that ran amuck with terrible consequences, I think this something about which every American should be concerned.

    Third, and along the same lines, what happens when Congress passes a gay friendly law (and this will happen eventually) and the law is challenged when an anti-gay administration is in power? Would we want that administration to have the option to decline to defend the law? Is it possible that he's got a concern for a larger principle where things don't necessarily change when administrations change. Do I want a Republican administration to decline to defend a provision of the new health care bill or the hate crimes act because they don't like it? No. And if DOJ can decide when it will not defend a law, how's that decision made? What's the basis for that decision other than the "preference" (or whim) of the president. My concern in situations is making sure my rights are protected when I'm not in power. If I authorize or endorse a policy where laws are defended based upon which ones the president likes, I'm signing on for a world of hurt when a president I oppose is in power.

    Posted by: BMF | Oct 14, 2010 11:33:32 PM


  8. While I am more than frustrated with the President on how he has been handling the repeal of DADT on tonight's episode Rachel Maddow had on Walter Dellinger, former Solicitor General under the Clinton administration, to help clarify what's going on with the President and repeal. What I took from it was that it is not as simple as the DOJ simply refusing to defend the statute in court and that the advances the administration has made are much more significant than they are being credited for. Give the segment a watch if you get a chance.

    One other point is that, again, while I would like Obama to have done more and really been that fierce advocate that he claimed he was, it is false to claim that under his administration there has been zero advances for LGBT rights. The first that comes to my mind is that two weeks from now will mark the one year anniversary of President Obama signing the Matthew Shepard Act into law.

    Is it enough? No. Did I expect more? Yes. Is it as black and white and simple as everyone is making it out to be? No. But it sure as hell is still better than the alternative we were faced with in 2008 and are faced with in 2010.

    Posted by: SKOC211 | Oct 14, 2010 11:36:46 PM


  9. "We don't make determinations about who we love. And that's why I think that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is wrong."

    People seldom question the ethics of this argument, which assumes that if I had chosen to be gay it would be acceptable to discriminate against me. In fact, homophobia is a religious prejudice that seeks genocide.

    In reality, the entire issue boils down to whether or not Americans have the right to violate the Constitution when their religions demand it. Christianists believe that "there is no higher law than [my] God's law," a tenet which is both imperialist and undeniably antidemocratic.

    Posted by: Bryan | Oct 15, 2010 12:04:02 AM


  10. Girls,

    Keep your fucking money in your pocket. Who gives a fuck. The Dems don't but we repubs do. Just for your vote once we're in D.A.D.T will see the light of Day.

    So don't be patient just don't for Obama anymore. He doesn't care! HA HA HA HA!

    Posted by: RED DEVIL | Oct 15, 2010 1:01:15 AM


  11. VOTE for the republiCONs? yeah right! NEVER!

    All those clowns need to be booted out of our government!

    Posted by: FunMe | Oct 15, 2010 3:14:00 AM


  12. VOTE for the republiCONs? yeah right! NEVER!

    All those clowns need to be booted out of our government!

    Posted by: FunMe | Oct 15, 2010 3:14:00 AM


  13. @ JOE: you chose to ignore my second point that neutralizes the Obama Mafia talking point about not wanting to do a Bush and "override decisions of Congress unilaterally."

    Passed BY Congress in 1983, "10 United States Code § 12305”—“Authority of the President to Suspend Certain Laws Relating to Promotion, Retirement, and Separation" GIVES HIM THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT in the name of national security. It reads:

    “Notwithstanding ANY other provision of law, during any period members
    of a reserve component are serving on active duty pursuant to an order to active duty under authority of section 12301, 12302, or 12304 of this title, THE PRESIDENT MAY SUSPEND ANY PROVISION OF LAW relating to promotion, retirement, OR SEPARATION applicable to ANY member of the armed forces who the President determines is essential to the national security of the United States.”

    If Congress had wanted to exclude gays, they could have, but note they wrote "ANY member of the armed forces." Nor does it matter that the ban was not yet, then, an actual law. "Notwithstanding ANY other provision of law"....NOT "except for any that might be passed in the future."

    The Supreme Court has already ruled 12305 constitutional.

    Over the last year, no less than Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Armed Services Committee Chair Carl Levin have asked him to do suspend discharges pending "repeal," along with 77 members of the House who asked him by letter to stop discharges more than a year ago. Need one point out that, in addition to the personal reputations associated with their positions of leadership, all members of the House and Senate swear to uphold and defend the Constitution and would hardly urge him to take such an action if they didn't feel it legal?

    The President himself said in June of 2009 that such discharges “weaken national security.” So he is not just contradicting HIMSELF, he is CHOOSING to "weaken national security" by continuing, even fighting to be able to continue, these discharges.

    Further, a supermajority vote is required for Congress to overrride any Executive Order, and they'd never get it in this regard.

    Further, WHY did he back Gates in his demand that there be NO mandate against discharges in the "compromise amendment," thus, "repeal" no longer means a guaranteed end to discharges, only the law, with NOTHING preventing the military from returning to their internal pre-DADT ban that discharged over 100,000?

    “The Huffington Post,” June 3, 2010:

    “Pelosi said the House WEAKENED ITS REPEAL LANGUAGE TO MOLLIFY THE WHITE HOUSE. …Military leaders REFUSED TO ACCEPT LANGUAGE THAT WOULD BAR DISCRIMINATION, so the clause was dropped.”

    Posted by: Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com | Oct 15, 2010 4:48:18 AM


  14. Interesting that no one has commented on two things here.

    1. Note that he credits Mullen as saying he thinks the policy should end, but he only credits Gates as recognizing "that the policy NEEDS TO CHANGE."

    2. What follows is a bit of back and forth between policy ENDING and policy CHANGE.

    I know he insists that the policy's going to end on his watch, but I just don't see how that's truly going to happen after November 2nd. And, the simple fact is, as health care reform proved, he's willing to simply give up on a promise because it might have required him to actually take a stand and fight for it. So instead of health CARE reform, we got watered-down health INSURANCE reform. So, call me jaded, but when he promises an end on his watch of DADT, and carefully sprinkles in the word "change" a lot too, don't be surprised if he end up with no repeal at all, but instead a kinder, gentler "watered-down" DADT that still kicks gays out, but gets some new pretty layer of frosting that will supposedly make that poison pill taste a little bit nicer.

    Posted by: MrRoboto | Oct 15, 2010 5:38:06 AM


  15. You guys are telling me that, in the grips a double dip economic recession, jobless recover, unemployment, two wars, and healthcare reform, you're surprised that LGBT issues are not at THE TOP of the agenda for Democrats? Take a dose of reality.

    Posted by: Mike C. | Oct 15, 2010 5:46:26 AM


  16. "You support and work with your allies even when they disappoint you. "

    Obama is not our ally though.

    He believes that we are inferior - he does not believe we should be allowed to marry.

    I had such high hopes of him when he got elected.

    Now I see him as just another slimy, opportunistic bigot.

    Oh and to the poster who said that the Matthew Shepard Act was an advancement in our rights. That is quite simply NOT true.

    That act simply penalises criminals for certain acts more severely. It will not eliminate homophobic murder or bullying.

    The Matthew Shepard Act will be no comfort to Tyler Clementi's family.

    Posted by: Martin Murray | Oct 15, 2010 6:12:12 AM


  17. And tell me, Martin, the final solution to eliminating homophobic murder or bullying.

    Posted by: Paul R | Oct 15, 2010 8:24:58 AM


  18. I know it feels good to have a hissy fit, and be cynical. But before you give up on Obama, remember a few of these accomplishments okay?

    Health Care Reform:

    1. Coverage can’t be denied to children with pre-existing conditions.

    2. Adults up to age 26 can stay on their parents’ health plans.

    3. Free preventive care.

    4. Rescinding coverage is now illegal.

    5. Eliminating lifetime limits on insurance coverage.

    6. Restricting annual limits on insurance coverage.

    7. More options to appeal coverage decisions.

    8. $5 billion in immediate federal support to affordable Coverage for the Uninsured with Pre-existing Conditions.

    9. $10 billion investment in Community Health Centers.

    10. Create immediate access to re-insurance for employer health plans providing coverage for early retirees.

    11. Made an $80 billion deal with the pharmaceutical industry to contribute to cut prescription drug costs for the nation’s seniors reduce the size of the "donut hole" in the Medicare (Part D) Drug Benefit.

    Economy:

    1. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) has worked. The Economy Has Been Growing - take a look at the graph of GDP growth between 2007 thru 2010.

    2. US auto industry rescue plan -- Detroit making profits again and at least 1 million jobs saved.

    3. Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 that extended Unemployment benefits up to 20 weeks and more.

    4. Provided $14.7 billion in small business loans increasing minority access to capital.

    5. The $26 billion aid to states package preventing large-scale layoffs of teachers and public employees.

    Banking and Financial Reform:

    1. Signed a sweeping bank-reform bill (the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act) into law.

    2. Managed the $700 Billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that Banks have repaid 75% of TARP funds, bringing the cost down to $89B as of June 2010.

    3. Cut Salaries For 65 Bailout Executives.

    4. Closed offshore tax safe havens, tax credit loopholes on companies that use the tax laws to ship American Jobs oversees. HR 4213.

    5. Signed into law the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act to fight fraud in the use of TARP and recovery funds, and to increase accountability for corporate and mortgage frauds.

    6. Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure Act.

    Education:

    1. Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010 that increased the amount of federal Pell Grant awards and enabled the stripping of banks privileges as intermediaries for student loan servicing.

    2. Created the Race to the Top Fund, a $4.35 billion program to reward States that submit the best proposals for change.

    3. As part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, funded over$100 Billion for reforms to strengthen Elementary and Secondary education, early learning programs, college affordability and improve access to higher education, and to close the achievement gap.

    Jobs:

    1. The $787 billion economic stimulus package has created or saved nearly 2 million jobs slowing the bleeding.

    2. Jobs for Main Street Act (2010)injected $27.5 Billion for Highways, $8.4 Billion for Transit into the country’s transportation system to create jobs and spur economic activity.

    3. A $33 Billion Jobs Package that will allow Small businesses to get $5,000 tax credit for new hires.

    4. A $26 billion State Aid Package Jobs Bill saving 300,000 teachers and public workers jobs from unemployment.

    5. The Auto bailout saved 1 million jobs.

    Green Energy:

    1. Implemented renewable fuels mandate of 36 billion gallons by 2022, four times what we currently consume.

    2. Automakers will be required to meet a fleet-wide average of New Gas Mileage Standards at 35.5 MPH by 2016.

    3. A $60 billion investment in renewable and clean energy.

    Housing:

    1. $275 billion dollar housing plan - $75 billion dollars to prevent at-risk mortgage debtors already fallen victim to foreclosures and $200 billion to bring about confidence to offer affordable mortgages and to stability the housing market.

    2. Established "Opening Doors" to end the homelessness of 640,000 men, women, and children in the United States in 10 years.

    3. Provided $510 Million for the rehabilitation of Native American housing.

    4. Provided $2 billion for Neighborhood Stabilization Program to rehab, resell, or demolish in order to stabilize neighborhoods.

    5. Provided $5 billion for Weatherization Assistance Program for low income families to weatherize 1 million homes per year for the next decade.

    6. Provided grants to encourage states and localities to take the first steps in implementing new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.


    Medicaid/Medicare/Social Security:

    1. giving $250 economic stimulus check to 55 million Social Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) recipients in 2009.

    2. Cutting prescription drug costs for Medicare recipients by 50% and began eliminating the plan’s gap ("donut hole") in coverage.

    3. Passing as part of H.R.3962 (Preservation of Access to Care for Medicare Beneficiaries and Pension Relief Act of 2010) a $6.4 billion measure reversing a 21 percent cut in physician payments that would have started a flood of rejections by some doctors of seniors covered by Medicare.

    4. Expanded eligibility for Medicaid to all individuals under age 65 with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level ($14,400 per year for an individual).

    Military Veterans and Families:

    1. Implemented a strategic planto increase the hiring of Veterans and Military spouses throughout the Federal civil service.

    2. Provided for the expenses of families of to be at Dover AFB when fallen soldiers arrive.

    3. Passed the Veterans' Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2009 increasing the rates of compensation for veterans with service-connected disabilities and the rates of dependency and indemnity compensation for the survivors of certain disabled veterans.

    4. Declared the end of the war in Iraqi bringing back nearly 100,000 U.S. troops home to their families.

    5. Donated 250K of Nobel prize money to Fisher House, a group that helps provide housing for families of patients receiving medical care at military and Veterans Affairs medical centers.

    LBGT:

    1. Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees.

    2. Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

    3. Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights.

    4. Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer).

    5. Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act.

    6. Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover Gay employees taking unpaid leave to care for their children of same-sex partners.

    7. Lifted the HIV Entry Ban.

    8. Implemented HUD Policies that Would Ban Discrimination Based On Gender Identity.


    Posted by: Brent Z | Oct 15, 2010 8:58:09 AM


  19. @Paul R

    What's this BS assumption that people who criticize on here haven't done squat? I've written to my representatives in the senate and congress, protested, rallied and gone door to door for candidates who clearly support equality. People have the right to bitch and moan and they will until the end of time.

    Wow! DOMA and marriage equality are "easier" to change in the US than DADT?!!! Have you forgotten the little matter of the religious right in this country? Last time I checked their sacred institution sanctified by god was waaaaaay more serious than openly gays fighting beside straights. If you HONESTLY think the Christian zealots are going to make marriage a cake walk than you are a very, very silly man.

    Posted by: Toto | Oct 15, 2010 9:06:50 AM


  20. You know, I want to be as generous and graceful as you all are being.

    You guys are racists. You do not like Obama because he is black. You have this low opinion of him because you have low opinions of all black people. You aren't "really attracted to them" either, You try to watch white only porn and justify it as "I like white guys, is all". You say to yourself "Mmm-hmm" and have a "Of course.." moment the second you hear about anything involving black people and gay people.

    You are the worst kind of racists, the ones who will never care enough to see how racist you really are. You have preconceived expectations of every black person, you guys are childish scum.

    Posted by: Fenrox | Oct 15, 2010 10:23:17 AM


  21. Obama says his heart breaks when he hears about bullying and suicides, yet he instructs his Justice Department to appeal both DOMA and DADT. Doesn't that defense just send another message to bullied youth that "you aren't good enough and something is wrong with you"? Omama doesn't care about gays. If the Democrats gave us the civil rights we are entitled to under the constitution, they wouldn't have the deep pockets and purses to fund their campaigns. My pockets are locked to the DNC. I've given enough, they've had majorities and "WOW" they passed a hate crimes bill. I'll be so happy if I'm murdered that someone might get a longer sentence.

    Posted by: Gary | Oct 15, 2010 10:30:37 AM


  22. Toto, the fact is is that most of the people bitching on here have NOT done a damn thing. Notice that you are the first person to even address Paul R's statement.

    I get so sick of people saying "Obama's words are meaningless" when they haven't done a gotdamn thing to fight for their own rights. Not a march, not protest, not a sit-in, not a letter written or an email sent, nothing. People who are actually INVOLVED in the fight discuss strategies and exchange ideas and talk about what they have done. They instigate ACTION, not bitch and say "fuck Obama."
    Whenever there is a post on Obama, suddenly names appear that either never existed before on here or ONLY show up for Obama posts. You want to talk about "meaningless words," look no further than those names. You can scroll through the inevitable 80+ comments, and count on one hand the ones that have something constructive to say.

    So kudos to you, Toto. But you do not represent the majority in this thread.

    Posted by: Q | Oct 15, 2010 10:49:58 AM


  23. I understand that DADT is not a good thing, but arent things like passing ENDA, and repealing Doma more important to our cause. Im just confused why everyone has been so dedicated to the repeal of DADT. I just think we have more important issues than this.

    Can anyone tell me why ENDA and the repeal of Doma are not being pushed as hard? Maybe I missed something...i know the repeal of DADT would have been convenient with the defensive spending bill, but now why?

    Posted by: Dustin | Oct 15, 2010 12:40:27 PM


  24. Lord, this thread is a piping hot mess.

    Running all the way from (some) racism to that rather weak tea known as "you simply hate Obama because he's black" defense.

    Nothing wrong with calling Obama a double dealing two faced hypocrite who says pretty words out of his mouth but his actions don't match. Hell, I call him out on that all the time.

    Fenrox's bullshit is just that...bullshit.

    So is calling the President a "monkey."

    Posted by: Chitown Kev | Oct 15, 2010 2:33:46 PM


  25. Kev, you waste, I am illustrating a point. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If people want to forget anything Obama has done for us and have the nerve to balk at his every fucking decision like he is twirling a mustache, laughing at gay people, I will show you that same respect and boil YOUR criticisms down into racism.

    Are you guys racists? Why would I care about you assholes enough to decide? You do nothing for this discussion, if all I can do is keep you guys balking "I'm not a racist!", maybe the adults in the room can have a real conversation.

    Posted by: Fenrox | Oct 15, 2010 3:02:48 PM


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