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Watch: Self-Described 'Pro-Family' Organizations Panic Over Finally Being Exposed as Hate Groups

 

Pakman

David Pakman destroys the American Family Association's Bryan Fischer in an interview in which he asks Fischer to respond to the Southern Poverty Law Center's designation of the AFA and other groups like the Family Research Council as hate groups.

Fischer claims the SPLC are the real haters: "The SPLC is peddling falsehoods, so they should be on their own list."

Watch Pakman's excellent interview, AFTER THE JUMP...

Sdsh Yesterday, the Family Research Council published a full-page ad in Politico and the Washington Examiner signed by conservative leaders and lawmakers fighting back against the SPLC's designation.

The ad, reads, ""We, the undersigned, stand in solidarity with Family Research Council, American Family Association, Concerned Women of America, National Organization for Marriage, Liberty Counsel and other pro-family organizations that are working to protect and promote natural marriage and family. We support the vigorous but responsible exercise of the First Amendment rights of free speech and religious liberty that are the birthright of all Americans."

PDF HERE.

Alvin McEwen notes some of those who signed: "The open letter was signed by many current and former elected and government officials including Speaker-designate John Boehner, Majority Leader-elect Eric Cantor, U.S. Reps Mike Pence (R-IN), Michele Bachmann (R-MN), John Carter (R-TX), John Fleming (R-LA,) Trent Franks (R-AZ), Louie Gohmert (R-TX,) Gregg Harper (R-MS), Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), Jim Jordan (R-OH), Steve King (R-IA,) Don Manzullo (R-IL), Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), Joe Pitts (R-PA), Peter Roskam (R-LA), Lamar Smith (R-TX,) Steve Scalise (R-LA,) Fred Upton (R-MI), U.S. Senators Jim DeMint (R-SC), Jim Inhofe (R-OK,) David Vitter (R-LA), Roger Wicker (R-MS), Sam Brownback (Gov.-elect, Kansas), Governor Bobby Jindal, former Governor Mike Huckabee, Governor Tim Pawlenty, former Senator Rick Santorum, Edwin Meese III, former Attorney General of the United States, and Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli."

The Southern Poverty Law Center responded:

Splc It was a remarkable performance, given that it was precisely the maligning of entire groups of people — gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people — that caused the SPLC to list groups like the FRC. Remarkable, too, was the accusation that the SPLC was avoiding debate — in fact, the very first public discussion of the issues raised by the SPLC came in a Nov. 29 debate between the FRC’s Tony Perkins and myself on MSNBC’s “Hardball With Chris Matthews.”

Consider a few of the comments about gays and lesbians that have come from some of the groups now denouncing character assassination. The FRC, in a booklet entitled Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys, has claimed that “one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets’ of a new sexual order.” The American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer wrote this year that “[h]omosexuality gave us Adolph Hitler, and homosexuals in the military gave us the Brown Shirts, the Nazi war machine and 6 million dead Jews.” Matt Barber of Liberty Counsel, which was not listed by the SPLC but helped organize today’s newspaper ad, describes relationships between gay men as “one man violently cramming his penis into another man’s lower intestine and calling it ‘love.’” Officials of several, including the FRC, have called for criminalizing gay sex.

Almost all the religious-right groups named by the SPLC also have engaged in a particularly toxic and widespread defamation of gay men: The claim that they are essentially pedophiles who molest children at far higher rates than heterosexuals.

That these allegedly "pro-family" groups are going to such great lengths to defend themselves reveals that they are running scared that the falsehoods they've been pushing for years, which have endangered countless lives, are finally being exposed.

Watch David Pakman interview the AFA's Bryan Fischer, AFTER THE JUMP...

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Comments

  1. Someone needs to give David Pakman a television show!

    Posted by: Bobo | Dec 16, 2010 11:59:36 AM


  2. There are people who are absolutely immune to reason.

    Posted by: Adrian | Dec 16, 2010 12:15:22 PM


  3. Well, they're certainly getting a bit hateful.

    Posted by: ophu | Dec 16, 2010 12:16:08 PM


  4. Did Bryan Fisher out himself on this program?

    Posted by: AlexM | Dec 16, 2010 12:18:45 PM


  5. I think he's just saying that he's an "ex" gay.

    He stopped being gay when he stopped having sex with guys but still has urges to.

    Poor guy.

    Posted by: Alco | Dec 16, 2010 12:57:45 PM


  6. I am so sick of hearing the phrase "The American People" used as if I were somehow not a part of that group. I AM an American; I pay American taxes, I vote on American ballots, I own a valid American driver's license. I have an American Social Security number.

    "The American People" are not a homogeneous entity. It is a hopelessly broad and general term that describes nothing beyond indicating that the members of said group all have U.S. citizenship.

    We seriously need to start rudely interrupting these uneducated, stubbornly ignorant individuals every time they start a sentence with "The American People want..."

    We are the American People and we certainly don't want what they're saying we want.

    Posted by: David | Dec 16, 2010 12:59:22 PM


  7. Denial is such a bad place to be. I can't imagine going back into it.

    Posted by: ophu | Dec 16, 2010 1:01:33 PM


  8. My favorite phrase in response to the "family values" crowd: "Whose family?"

    Posted by: ophu | Dec 16, 2010 1:03:52 PM


  9. SPLC in effect controls the purse strings of a lot of corporations, foundations and govt. agencies when it comes time to making grants, so this designation goes right to the heart of a lot of the fundraising that these groups do.

    Posted by: anon | Dec 16, 2010 1:10:51 PM


  10. That list is a veritable who's who of bigoted christian extremists. Perhaps SPLC should just cut and paste the whole list to its list of hate groups.

    Posted by: gaylib | Dec 16, 2010 1:23:26 PM


  11. You too can donate to this fab-u-lously effective 501(c)(3) organization:
    https://secure.splcenter.org/donations/donate

    Posted by: David R. | Dec 16, 2010 1:24:25 PM


  12. we can't forget that these groups are the same ones exporting their hate to countries in Africa, with great success. If they had their way we would all be headed for the gallows. I'd love to see Tony Perkins in the Hague being brought up on charges of crimes against humanity.

    Posted by: gaylib | Dec 16, 2010 1:43:37 PM


  13. Good, "faux tank" hasn't failboated this one up for me. Given that brian fischer makes a living off of extreme antigay bigotry, one would assume that he's not clinically insane. However, his rants and screeds are becoming increasingly deranged and incoherent, appealing to an ever narrowing subculture of christian degenerates...what I suspect is that his audience has pretty much remained the same, but wouldn't be interested in finding out if it has decreased as his loony tune message has been getting greater coverage in the gay blogosphere. Emphasis on wouldn't. Has he turned off some bigots?

    Posted by: TANK | Dec 16, 2010 1:43:45 PM


  14. David Pakman is cute!

    Posted by: Jason 2 | Dec 16, 2010 2:46:09 PM


  15. How can you misrepresent someone when you're quoting them verbatim, Bryan asks. Like this:

    "We oughtta take our lead from the gay porn actors." - Bryan Fischer

    Posted by: Will | Dec 16, 2010 3:08:21 PM


  16. We hear what we want to hear. Fischer's supporters hear him winning this exchange, I assure you.

    No one should go up against these guys unless they are deeply prepared and very, very experienced in "debate" (this isn't real debate, of course). Pakman did a good job, but not enough to shake the opposition.

    On the other hand, the fight is over the middle and things like this bring the middle to our side. So thanks, David Pakman!

    Posted by: BobN | Dec 16, 2010 3:24:41 PM


  17. David Pakman is seriously out-debated by this Fischer guy. Fischer is simply a small-minded bigot who cannot possibly understand the realities of other peoples' lives. The only thing that motivates him is his need to bully and demean. To lift himself up in his concrete world of black and white by denigrating others. His incredibly facile generalizations and aspersions are mind-bogglingly erroneous. Why didn't Dave just ask him:
    "Mr. Fischer, there are gay people in the world, and always have been and alwyas will be, why do you have a problem with humanity as it has been and will always be?"

    Posted by: dancobbb | Dec 16, 2010 4:04:13 PM


  18. Mr. Fischer is someone who cannot be at ease in humanity as it has always been, as it is now, and as it will always be. He has a naive soul.

    Posted by: dancobbb | Dec 16, 2010 4:06:20 PM


  19. Mr. Fischer, I am sorry to witness your disquietude about the existance of homosexuals. Homosexuals have always been, are now, and will always be a part of humanity. Always. For eternity. And, there will always be those people, like you, who are ill-at-ease existing in humanity as it is --a humanity that has always counted homosexuals as members.

    Posted by: dancobbb | Dec 16, 2010 4:10:29 PM


  20. You know, as great as David handled this guy, I'm amazed how few people bring this fact into the argument:

    WHAT ABOUT LESBIANS?

    If you start tacking on vast differences between gay men and women, all of the conservative arguments break down entirely, because they can't be applied across the entire spectrum of 'homosexuality'.

    Posted by: sarah | Dec 16, 2010 5:01:25 PM


  21. sarah - it astounds me how people don't address the fact that the anti-gay mov't is overwhelmingy an anti-gay male one

    lesbians are invisible. as if women aren't important. it's really bizarre

    Posted by: gomez | Dec 16, 2010 5:55:26 PM


  22. "If you start tacking on vast differences between gay men and women, all of the conservative arguments break down entirely, because they can't be applied across the entire spectrum of 'homosexuality'."


    NO ONE IN THE MEDIA EVER PUSHES THIS BACK as an argument, and it drives me crazy. It's such an easy, obvious response that destroys their argument.

    Posted by: rafi | Dec 16, 2010 7:25:15 PM


  23. David Pakman acted as a true investigative journalis here, which is something we too rarely see in a media that seems to want to just provide a sounding board for outrageous comments without fact-checking.
    It's easy to find the Spitzer video on Youtube in which he states that anti-gay orgs are misrepresenting his research, and that he actually found that any change is "probably very rare."
    But Spitzer's study was very sloppy in the first place. He assembled his test subjects from the "star students" sent to him by the anti-gay orgs themselves, and set a laughably low bar for what he allowed to be counted as any degree of "heterosexual functioning." (i.e. a simple statement over the telephone from his test subjects, who were not only members of anti-gay religious orgs but also hand-picked by the anti-gay organizations themselves).

    Although Pakman didn't mention it, the Vancouver study that this wing-nut referenced in the interview is yet another that has published a written statment saying that their study is being twisted by these anti-gay groups as if it proved something that it did not.
    That study was done in the early 1990's at the height of the AIDS epidemic That study was pretty sloppily-done too and hardly worth quoting.
    But basically, it was just saying that only IF (yes IF in the future, meaning the late 1990's) AIDS were to spread at specifically high numbers (numbers which did not come to pass) and IF HIV patients continued to die within months of diagnosis with no effective treatment options and IF we were to assume that gay people are a particular percentage of the population (the fundies always cite the study's "worst case scenario" with presumed tiny numbers of gays existing and AIDS numbers that hypothetically would have exploded as exponentially after 2000 as it had in the first few years of its discovery)... THEN gay men may lose on average X number of years of life in the future (i.e. the late 1990's and the year 2000, etc.)
    The authors of the study later put out a press release stating that none of their hypothetical scenarios ever came to pass and that thankfully, the hypothetical numbers they projected only as future possibilities were moot.

    Posted by: GregV | Dec 16, 2010 10:12:29 PM


  24. Bryan Fisher is a liar. There are many gay couples that are at least as monogamous as the average strait couple.
    This is the real reason that those groups hate marriage equality. It is a lot easier to hate us when they imagine us picking up a different trick every night vs. us having lives almost as boring as theirs. Hundreds of partners ? who has the energy? It is like inferring that all strait people act the same way some college kids do during spring break. (for their whole lives) Give me a break.

    Posted by: Tom in long beach | Dec 17, 2010 3:24:21 AM


  25. Really Bryan, us "homos" are not monogamous? That's pretty hilarious, considering I've been in a monogamous, homosexual relationship for 4 years now with one woman. If we could get married we would. So don't sit and spout that ridiculous misinformation without having talked to every gay man and lesbian in this country.

    Posted by: Jes | Dec 17, 2010 1:01:56 PM


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