1. Ken Gavey says

    If only ANYTHING in life could be so easily categorized to be either black or white…people who need to put everything in a box with a label on it are truly limited thinkers with closed minds and closed hearts. There is not absolute anything and we need to allow people to be who they truly feel they are on the inside. Unclench, God loves you either way.

  2. raphinou says

    “If the left’s template is correct — that turning folks into social pariahs makes them kill themselves — then we should be awash in suicides here at the American Family Association. Our staff should be suffering from an epidemic of self-murder. But here we are, enjoying our lives, our families, our friends and our churches while nary a thought of suicide crosses our minds.”

    if the left’s template is correct, this jerkface has just proven that the AFA bigots and others in this so-called ‘pro-family movement’ have not been turned into social pariahs, and thus, not victims of hate at all.

  3. dc20008 says

    He does make a factual point.. her DNA is female and when her bones are dug up 1000 years from now her DNA will be female.

  4. Michael says

    “then we should be awash in suicides here at the American Family Association. Our staff should be suffering from an epidemic of self-murder.”

    Except that would speed up their one way trip to that hot place they keep wishing on us!

  5. Bravo says

    Technically he’s right. To each their own, but I do tend to think that sex-changes are purely cosmetic and I’ve never believed that appearance makes the individual. Still, this guy needs to reign in the hate. It’s Chaz Bono’s body and he can do with it what he pleases, whether or not other people find it disagreeable.

  6. Andrew says

    Comparing suicidal teens — who have been bullied/marginalized/demonized/abused — to adults who hold socially unpopular views is beyond the pale.

  7. Rin says

    I believe that Chaz’s DNA is that of a female and that surgery and supplements won’t make him technically a male.

    HOWEVER, if it makes him frickin’ happy, if he is happier living his life as a man and the people he engages in relationships with are totally cool…who really cares?

    He’s not out robbing banks, he’s not molesting children, he’s not borrowing billions of tax dollars to keep his soul sucking business afloat so what does the fact that he’d rather have a beard than a tiara have to do with me?

  8. jamesintoronto says

    I know you love your freedom of speech in America, but I am quite happy living in Canada where people like Bryan Fischer and that vile Phelps family would fall under the title of “hate speech” and be shut down. When people spew such vicious lies under the aegis of “freedom of speech” I feel quite safe and proud to be Canadian.

  9. Mary says

    Even people who generally agree with the AFA on issues have to be secretly telling themselves that the AFA made a bad judgment call on this one. We all need to choose our battles carefully, and Fischer picked the wrong one here. Chaz must have been in a lot of psychological pain to undergo a sex change operation – this was not some trendy little cosmetic procedure. And this is a dancing show – its not like her operation will be televised. “Dancing with the Stars” is not exactly “Sesame Street” – can we really call this a “family show?” People who are offended at the sight of Chaz on the show don’t have to watch. But directly attacking him seems mean-spirited. And Cher now gets to display her family values by defending her son – as any loyal Christian mother would when a son is being insulted. This episode will backfire on social conservatives. They should leave Chaz alone.

  10. Rin says

    I really dislike AFA. They give all religious peoples a bad name.

    My parish priest was besieged by calls over this stupid crap so he says to everyone: I’m sorry are all the homeless people sheltered, the poor fed, and the widows and orphans taken care of? If not, go out and do what Christ told you to and when its done come back and ask me about Dancing with the Stars.

    That’s the attitude to take. These aholes are picking low hanging outrage fruit because they can’t accomplish anything genuine or world-changing.

  11. says

    Oh diddums! Poor little Christians. Burnt at the stake; sentenced to jail; beaten up; despised; reviled; not allowed to be at their dying partner’s bedside; not allowed to hold hands in public, or kiss; fed chemical castrators. O tempora o mores! Poor fragile little flowers! How one’s heart goes out to these horribly bullied folks!

  12. metroptomist says

    Let’s just wait for him to get cancer, and when he goes to get treatment, we can say “but GOD made each and every one of those little cancer cells… since He obviously must know what He is doing, we’ll just let it keep growing.”

    Seriously, the argument about chromosomal status of cells has been shot down in the medical community a long time ago. There are separate definitions of “sex” and “gender”. In MOST cases (but not all), sex and gender are concordant (i.e., most XX individuals develop typically female bodies and identify as female, while most XY individuals develop typically male bodies and identify as male). However, there are plenty of examples of variations on this theme… not only are there quite a number of syndromes where there are differences in chromosomal combinations, but there are also ways in which an XX baby develops with male characteristics and vice-versa. So what would he have us do with all those people? In the medical community it takes a committee of doctors, psychologists, social workers, and family members to determine how to raise these children… not just some holy-roller crackpot who wants to spew venom about somebody ELSE’s body.

    Sexual reassignment surgery is about relieving suffering in individuals in whom sex and gender are not the same. No, doctors cannot create a perfect male body from a female body, much less at the cellular level, but what they CAN do is help someone who feels trapped in the wrong body to feel more normal. Think about that the next time you get the urge to giggle under your breath about a transsexual.

  13. Cameron Johnson says

    Okay, we need to start ignoring this man. He is talking to no one but himself, and apparently, us.

  14. Boone says

    They are not killing themselves because THEY ARE NOT BEING HARMED by the society they live in. Christians as victims? Victims of shame for being called out on their hypocrisy, maybe.

  15. Shello says

    I love how they always play the victim card. Maybe we should try to make that claim a reality and make it real victims.

  16. Boone says

    “RIN”, “BRAVO” and “DC2008″: See post by “METROPTOMIST”. Having a penis and chest hair while at the same time KNOWING in your heart and mind that you are a woman is no more a choice than being gay or straight is. Your ignorance is astounding.

  17. JCF says

    “He does make a factual point.. her [sic] DNA is female and when her bones are dug up 1000 years from now her [sic] DNA will be female.”

    I trust that 1000 years from now, we will be about 990 years past the facile idiocy that a person’s identity is defined by their sex chromosomes!

    There have been transgendered people since the dawn of time, and funny: they were never encumbered by lack of knowledge of their sex chromosomes!

    Probably some of the most significant women of all time (known to history and not) had XY chromosomes. And some of the most significant men of all time (known to history and not) had XX chromosomes. It’s the freaking 21st century (“You are NOT the father!” “tainted blood samples!” “human cloning!” blah-blah-blah) which obsesses over DNA, as if it’s the be-all and end-all.

    It’s not. We’re *human*. The very DEFINITION of the human being, is to DEFY the limitations imposed by others, and *define oneself*. That’s what MAKES us human. Chaz is just one more example of that. God bless him, and Go Chaz!

  18. says

    It would be awfully nice if, in commenting on an article about an anti-gay anti-trans nutter people could have the courtesy to use Chaz Bono’s proper/preferred gender pronoun.

    Using female pronouns to referrer to a man, trans or otherwise, is generally an insult (and vice versa). Some non-trans people may not understand the experiences of trans people, just as some straight folk don’t understand what it is to be gay. But denying the fundamental existence of trans people (which mis-gendering is a way to do) is as offensive as the right wing jerks claiming that queer people don’t really exist.

  19. Robert in NYC says

    Whether Chaz’ DNA remains female is beside the point. This bigot actually believes “God” made her. Really? So Chaz’ mother had sex with God? Last time I checked, we were created by our parents, not some supertitious flying sky pixie. What morons. Proof positive devolution exists.

  20. kit says

    Thank you for putting that all so succinctly and clearly! Alas, I’m afraid that knowledge and eloquence will not manage to enlighten these *cough* people so filled with hatred, venom, and self-pity.

  21. Tyron says

    Bryan Fischer could you please point me to the place in the Bible where Jesus whines about things not going his way? The parts where he talks hate about other people? And especially the part where he moans and complains about being the victim?

    Yep, didn’t think so – it’s not in my Bible either … but then again Jesus wasn’t spewing lies and hate to fatten his bankroll – something many “so-called” Christians need to learn.

  22. says

    Re : “male” DNA and “female” DNA.

    I wish biology was taught better in the USA.

    1 in 300 men don’t have the XY chromosomes most do. That’s HALF A MILLION MEN in the US alone not with “male” chromosomes. Not exactly a “tiny minority” or a “one in a million freakish event”.

    And some women *do* have XY chromosomes, for example:

    “A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis.” — J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9

    There’s no more a “male chromosome” than a “male height”. Men are taller than women, but we don’t say everyone shorter than average height is “biologically female”. Having XY chromosomes biases the odds, strongly, in favour of being male – but it’s neither necessary nor sufficient.

    Please, before talking about “real” sex, do some research first, lest you look like someone who doesn’t let mere facts get in the way of their prejudiced “opinions”.

  23. says

    The AFA are emotionally and spiritually mutilated aberrations.
    Siamese twins (born conjoined) by this moron’s definition/criteria should never be separated surgically, even if it enhances their lives greatly and gives them happiness, because “God made them that way”…OR, wait! Would the AFA find them to be “aberrations” as well?
    These self-identified “Christians” spew their venomous hatred for anything and EVERYTHING they fear or don’t understand.
    Assuming there IS a God…..and a Son named Jesus…..WWJD? (What Would Jesus Do?)
    Would He judge and condemn or exhibit love and compassion?
    From all I have read and heard about Jesus..He would do the latter. And He would sorely chastise His “followers” for NOT doing the same.
    SHAME on the right-wing “Christian” conservatives!
    If organizations like the AFA, One Million Moms, Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK are the best you have to offer, then Christianity has surely gone to Hell in a hand basket! Count me OUT!
    Go Chaz! Dance your ass off dude and enjoy yourself! There are still plenty of us who accept and embrace you and who feel no need to “label” you.

  24. sarah says

    I love how he threw in that ‘belle of the ball’ comment just to stoke the fire a little more.

    It makes him more comfortable to decide people’s gender for them.

  25. SFshawn says

    Anybody with a brain cell in their head knows these religious freaks are unstable and irrational and CRAVE attention and validation through their insane minds and mindless words. DIE ALREADY and go to your skyyy gawd and shut your hateful mouths. Anybody who follows/supports these nut jobs deserve the hell and hatred they live with daily in their heads,their empty hearts and in their constant hate filled rhetoric/actions/words towards their fellow humans.
    Xians go kill yourselfs and save the world and your fellow humans from your ugliness and stupidity.

  26. Sonneillon says

    Y’all, there’s this thing called Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. It’s pretty complicated, but one of the effects it can have is that a person’s DNA is NOT explicitly gendered. Y’all are acting like ‘male’ and ‘female’ are a complete binary – they are NOT. People are born with ‘male’ DNA and vaginas. People are born with ‘female’ DNA and penises. People are born with DNA that is of neither gender and has aspects of both and a myriad of genital arrangements that may or may not match. The brains of transgender individuals have been shown to behave chemically more like the brains of cisgender people who share their gender than that of cisgender people who share their sex.

    Seriously, this attitude like DNA is the be-all, end-all authority on the ‘truth’ of a person’s gender identity needs to DIAF. Furhtermore, considering the advances we’ve made in forensic anthropology NOW, scientists who theoretically dig up Chaz Bono in a thousand years won’t say “this was a female” they’ll say “This was a transman”. We are already able to determine this about the skeletons of ancient people. Science marches on.

  27. anon says

    I’m not sure of the point of posting AFA vids. They are extremely predictable and posting them here isn’t going to change anything.

    We aren’t actually dealing with an obscure medical condition here. Chaz Bono’s issues were psychological. All trans people must receive psychotherapy before being allowed to get surgery for a variety of reasons. Medically, the first do no harm principle would suggest that if psychotherapy alone and without surgery is enough to bring the patient out of their disordered state then that would be the preferred treatment. Failing that the patient receives hormone therapy and is advised to live as the other gender for several months to see if it works out. Only then will the patient be advised to get surgery, if so desired. Both Fischer and trans activists are vastly oversimplifying how this works. And remember, it’s classified as a disorder, otherwise there would be no medical treatment or surgery at all.

  28. metroptomist says

    You are welcome. I happen to be a physician. Unfortunately, until recently in the medical community, most babies that were born with ambiguous genitalia (just one form of “intersex”) were simply surgically altered very early in life to resemble the most outwardly convincing sex and then raised as that gender. There are multiple examples of these kids later in life, having felt their entire lives that they are not the gender they’ve been taught to believe, discovering what happened later in life and suing over it or even committing suicide.

    Perhaps it “doesn’t make sense” to some that Chaz Bono, with XX chromosomes, can actually be male. Let’s all keep in mind that until 1973, homosexuality was considered a psychiatric disorder in the United States. After all, how could it make sense that two men or two women wanted to partner with one another, when the penis and the vagina are literally made to go together? It might not make sense… as we can all attest, it just IS. Accept it and move on.

  29. Dakotahgeo, Pastor/Chaplain says

    Hey Bryan… Bryan Fischer? Wrinkled Sweetcheeks? If the GLBT Community were bigots and made YOU or AFA a pariah, you wouldn’t even be posting/videoing a show, nor would your perverted minions be ga-ga over your stupid vocal dribbling… nor would you be committing suicide! You’d ALL be dead!!!…by the GLBT Communitys’ hands! We are, however, a benevolent, forgiving group and we will keep y’all around as a laughingstock for the entire world to guffaw at! We thank you for your cooperation!

  30. Mary says

    In an earlier post I mistakenly referred to Chaz as a “she.” This was done accidentally since I first knew of him when he was a woman. No disrespect was intended to either Chaz or the rest of the transgendered community.