NY Archbishop: Gay Marriage Will Trigger Devastating Church-State Conflict

Picture 21 Timothy Dolan, the archibishop of New York and the ultimate Catholic authority in America (seen right kissing a sceptre), has called gay marriage "Orwellian" - which, come to think of it, is a rather Orwellian use of the word Orwellian. Gay marriage is something you'd see in North Korea, he says, and it's just like marrying your own mother. And the twist in his panties is now tightening and violently riding up. This week he dispatched an angry letter to the president:

The nation's top Catholic bishop issued a stern challenge to the Obama administration's decision not to support a federal ban on gay marriage, and warned the president that his policies could "precipitate a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions.

In a letter sent Tuesday, Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York, who heads the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said he and other prelates have grown increasingly concerned since the administration announced last February that it would no longer defend the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act in court.

I'm not sure what he means by "a conflict between church and state of enormous proportions." It sounds like a big, vague threat. Yet somehow I find myself unafraid of a bunch of men dressed like Queen Amidala.

Here's the full text of his letter. (Note: it's a PDF download.)

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Comments

  1. Isn't there supposed to be a divide between church and state? My understanding of the US Constitution, and, you know, human nature, is that we WANT a big divide between church and state.
    The archbishop can go... bless himself.

    Posted by: verybookish | Sep 24, 2011 6:15:04 PM


  2. Using Orwellian ideas... Roman Catholics have been responsible for how many deaths in the olden times??? Maybe he is thinking they will once again start killing in the name of Jesus... It's like those that think abortion is killing but in the next breath are ready to "use 2nd Amendment" remedies... oh and they are for the death penalty... I have never understood that but I guess the original Ten Commandments had an asterisk after the Thou Shall Not Kill*

    Posted by: Randy | Sep 24, 2011 6:22:41 PM


  3. Hey, Archbishop, this is not Medieval Europe, this is the modern Untied States of America. The Founding Fathers were wary of people like you, that is why your religion cannot govern us. Our civil government, by our choice, governs us. It is all about "We the People", not "I the Church."

    Posted by: trees | Sep 24, 2011 6:23:28 PM


  4. Good!

    Posted by: Paul | Sep 24, 2011 6:24:09 PM



  5. Mr Dolan has the right to believe whatever he wants, and he has the right to speak. He does NOT have the right to force other people to believe anything.

    If anyone has the power to require others to believe any particular religion, then no one has freedom of religion.

    Mr Dolan should go back to his church, and get his nose out of mine. If MY church wants to marry a same-sex couple, we should have that right.

    Posted by: Steve | Sep 24, 2011 6:38:26 PM


  6. Is Dolan an idiot? Every time he trots his morbidly OBESE body before the media with that silly smirk on his fat face, he manages to piss all over himself. Hey Archbishop, you are neither Christ-like in body nor spirit! But do keep it up- no one is listening.

    Posted by: Jerry | Sep 24, 2011 6:38:27 PM


  7. There will only be a problem if the Khurch continues to play politics with the lives of others, including non-Katholics.

    So, what's really in front of Americans?

    Do you want the Khurch more, or less, involved in government???

    That will be the quickest consensus formed... EVA!!!

    Posted by: pete N SFO | Sep 24, 2011 6:41:36 PM


  8. Quite the reverse, actually. The conflict between Church and State would come from listening to this guy and making policy decisions solely based on religion.

    Posted by: Kevin_BGFH | Sep 24, 2011 6:46:48 PM


  9. That is not a scepter, it is a crozier. And Timothy is, once more, way over the top.

    Posted by: Michael Elmore | Sep 24, 2011 6:52:37 PM


  10. The Catholic Church needs to fold its doors and move back to Vatican City where it belongs.

    Posted by: OS2Guy | Sep 24, 2011 6:54:43 PM


  11. First of all, his influence and that of the US Catholic bishops is waning. Secondly, if there is a conflict between church and state, it is one he and his fellow bishops have initiated because they want to decide what kind of marriages the state will authorize and they don't want the state authorizing civil marriages that differ from their religious beliefs. In other words, these theocrats want to determine what the rest of us in our multi-cultural secular society can do and cannot do. Or another way of putting this, they want to enforce their bigoted beliefs on the rest of us. There wouldn't be a conflict if they would just mind their own business and get out of the way. By the way, since they are so hep on marriage, why don't they get married? Of course if they did so, they would be automatically excommunicated according to church law.

    Posted by: john patrick | Sep 24, 2011 6:55:43 PM


  12. There IS a separation of church and state in this country, Padre. Been here since this country was founded, you know, before you Catholics showed up to join the party. Then you all came along and screwed up the good times by pedophiliac diddling a bunch of boys and girls and trying to hide it with all the money you collected from working class people which they dumped in your baskets as they came around.

    Secondly, have you asked most Catholics what they believe about marriage equality? The majority of your followers are for it. So if your hatred isn't getting through in your own house, maybe you should quit whining and just shut your pie hole. You're looking stupid...and it's not just the robes and the pointy hat. Just saying'.

    Third, Father Tim...you and that semi-retarded fellow with no neck that runs the Catholic League are gonna go to your great reward without turning the country back to the regressive 50s, so why don't you retire, get a nice room at the Vatican and lay around for your last few years oggling the seminarians. And as far as your great reward, I'm sorta thinking with all the evil you've perpetrated and hid within the church, it's gonna be like a great big family bar-b-que only you're gonna have an apple in your mouth and a spit with your name engraved on it. Enjoy for eternity.

    Posted by: Bart | Sep 24, 2011 7:08:09 PM


  13. All this talk about the Catholic church just makes me want to drop to my knees and start pleasing Jesus!

    Posted by: DearComrade | Sep 24, 2011 7:19:10 PM


  14. He should go sit on his crozier if he really wants to get some attention. In front of St. Pat's on a Sunday morning.

    Posted by: Advice for the loser | Sep 24, 2011 7:19:11 PM


  15. The real conflict between the Roman Catholic Church and the State is the church's avoidance of taking responsibility for it's actions in the child sex abuse scandals. Hiding evidence, moving priests around, covering up and perpetuating the abuse is a far more serious matter. There goes the credibility of the Archbigot from NY right into the cesspool they belong.

    Posted by: Brad | Sep 24, 2011 7:21:38 PM


  16. Oh Bishop. With your frilly outfits, penis head hat, and your church sanctioned 'sexcapades', its no wonder Catholic churches are closing left and right. Tut-tut.

    Posted by: Chicklets | Sep 24, 2011 7:38:34 PM


  17. everytime he opens his mouth I am reminded about how lucky I am not to have been raised a Roman Catholic

    Posted by: bill o | Sep 24, 2011 7:46:40 PM


  18. As a devout Catholic, but not a blind follower of this outdated and bigoted set of leaders from a previous generation. If there is a divide to be worried about, it's the divide between the younger, more progressive Catholics (not to mention the many who are leaving the Church) who can't reconcile the reality of human rights and life (and how it fits INTO God's message) and the outdated bigotry of their leaders. If you believe (and it's easy to considering who has the mic) that Catholics aren't already rebelling against anti-gay messages, check out this AWESOME editorial calling this and many other NY bishops to task by a HUGE Catholic publication. It shows, for what it's worth, that everyday Catholics aren't the same and are refusing to follow lockstep with histrionic leadership.

    http://ncronline.org/news/gay-marriage-bishops-and-crisis-leadership

    I won't argue with anyone who thinks the Churh is evil or Christians are deluded. But I think the editorial should warm the hearts of anyone who does think that religion has a place in society (like I do), but that bigotry does not. I've been fearing that bigotry was becoming the order of the day. The push back has begun from major institutions within the Church such as the Catholic press which has enough wind at its back to openly defy the crazy hysterics of those who feel the time and certainties fo what they once "knew" slipping away. Change is hard, but the new generation will force them to deal with it, as we have every other force of social change in Church history and will again, and again. At least when the church changes slowly, as it has with female alter servers, masses in local langagues instead of Latin, admission and apologies for sins of the past, it does so absolutely and does not look back. I intend to fight from within and make sure it happens, not leave it behind for a group fo holier-than-thous to have a tradition that is as much mine as theirs.

    Posted by: breckroy | Sep 24, 2011 7:48:04 PM


  19. The Roman church won't accept same-sex marriages? Fine. It doesn't accept divorce, either. It can set the rules for its members; it shouldn't try to enforce them in civil society.

    The plea that all children should have a mother and a father rings false. Obviously, many don't. How does the Roman church plan to remedy this situation? It looks like a sentimental debating point to be trotted out when gays are involved.

    Posted by: Mudduck | Sep 24, 2011 7:49:53 PM


  20. I think someone should loose their tax exemption

    Posted by: Akula | Sep 24, 2011 8:07:00 PM


  21. @Randy, the Catholic church (and many others) has never stopped killing people. Gay suicides are often caused by religious doctrine and people's feeling they can't live up to it. Back alley abortions (before and even since Roe v. Wade), the same. And there's the small issue of lives wrecked by pedophiliac priests.

    The US president is not beholden to a Catholic priest. He's not accountable to the Pope. Screw this man's elevated sense of self-importance. Maybe he should focus on his personal problems (weight being a glaring one) and those of his church (too many to mention).

    Posted by: Paul R | Sep 24, 2011 8:48:45 PM


  22. Someone should remind Miss Dolan that we are living in 21st century not the 12th- which must have been around the time the Catholic Church had some real power

    Posted by: jaragon | Sep 24, 2011 9:10:08 PM


  23. Timothy Dolan should be more concerned about the coterie of pedophiles his church harbors.

    Posted by: bruce | Sep 24, 2011 9:13:12 PM


  24. I grew up Catholic and the majority of catholics are very good at ignoring whatever doctrine they don't agree with. There is a strong liberal tradition amongst many Catholics and I believe the majority of people in the US who classify themselves as Catholics support gay rights. The biggest problem is that most of them never seriously challenge the church and its outdated doctrines. Most just stop going to church.

    It's ironic that they are having such a hard time recruiting new nuns and priests because in the past when it was still too taboo for anyone to be openly gay the celibacy requirements made the church a safe haven for gays who didn't want to explain why they never got married. The majority of the older priests are closet cases.

    Posted by: IAN F | Sep 24, 2011 9:15:14 PM


  25. The days of established religions is just about over!

    Sensible individuals are clearly aware that this has long been a scam perpetuated on human beings: to enrich pompous clowns!

    What we are seeing is the desperation of these pompous clowns as we the people take away their ill gotten gains, and their access to simple minds!

    Posted by: Brains | Sep 24, 2011 9:19:18 PM


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