Catholic Church | Gay Marriage | New York | Timothy Dolan

Archbishop Timothy Dolan Was Deceived By Politicians On Gay Marriage


On the ominously titled program World Over, Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, explains how he an his co-religionists were deceived by his state's politicians in the run-up to New York's gay marriage vote this summer. Apparently, his back-room conversations with the state's power player's left him convinced the gay marriage vote was a sham and was "not going to go anywhere." Watch, AFTER THE JUMP ...


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  1. Awww, pooor ol' queen. He thought he was a playah and then got played. It's not so much fun when the prada is on the other foot, is it?

    Posted by: woodroad34d | Nov 26, 2011 5:28:49 PM

  2. Timmy Dolan mentions St. Thomas More, who was canonized a saint by the Catholic Church in 1935 and later named patron saint of politicians. That's how Thomas More's name came up in the conversation. Timmy was complaining about being misled by certain Catholic New York politicians, who assured him the marriage equality bill would be defeated.

    While Thomas More was chancellor, people were burned at the stake in London for the criminal act of reading the New Testament in English. That was a capital crime back then that was enforced by the Catholic Church and carried out by the state. Of John Tewkesbury, a London leather-seller found gilty by More of harbouring English translations of the bible and sentenced to burning, More declared: he "burned as there was neuer wretche I wene better worthy."

    The same church that burned people at the stake for reading the bible in English only recently forgave Galileo for promoting the heretical idea that the Earth revolves around the Sun. They had to wait more than 300 years because they wanted to be sure. After that declaration by JPII, then-Cardinal Ratzinger wrote that the Church was correct to convict Galileo because he had violated official Catholic dogma of the time. Unbelievable!

    Posted by: Ninong | Nov 26, 2011 5:32:11 PM

  3. Dolan just stated that anyone that is opposed to Catholic doctrine is called Legion which is a demon quoted in the Bible. This leader of the Child Rape Church should look within for the demon called Legion.

    Posted by: Rob | Nov 26, 2011 5:36:05 PM

  4. TAX THEM!!

    Posted by: trevor | Nov 26, 2011 6:08:54 PM

  5. I will never understand this man. He has never once spoken out and condemned his own church's actions regarding the molestation of children. He makes his living hating gay people and trying to get other people to hate them. I didn't see a single comment from him when last week they found that the man in England who is responsible for investigating catholic abuse cases was found to have over 4,000 child porn images on his church computer. He hasn't mentioned that at all. And yet he is still here to talk about how he was bamboozled by the gays. What a piece of work. If I am going to go to hell, I will definitely see him there. I would love for someone to finally come forward and directly accuse this monster of molestation so he will go away.

    Posted by: Michael | Nov 26, 2011 6:15:02 PM

  6. Looks to me like two gay men having a chat over tea. How delightful!

    Posted by: Dali | Nov 26, 2011 6:56:45 PM

  7. First, a note to Parker. Your argument was very eloquent and you would defeat Dolan in a debate. And if you run for an office in NYS, I'll vote for you. :)

    This post would be much too long to point out all the factual errors (aka lies) in Dolan's diatribe, but I have to note the most glaring examples. First, there is no referendum on common issues of law in NYS. He knows that, yet still calls for such a referendum.

    As someone who lobbied (unofficially because I was only representing my now husband and myself) for this bill in the week leading up to the vote, there were plenty of opportunities to talk to state senators one way or another on this bill. The pro and anti-equality forces had their chance and no doors were locked away for three days. There were literally hundreds of thousands of phone calls, letters, faxes, emails sent to legislators. I know because they told me this when I called and visited.

    Religious protection is a major part of this bill. He lies when he says a religious liberty clause is not in the bill. There is such a clause, even extended to organizations and facilities related to sects, faiths and denominations. The Knights of Columbus, a truly homophobic organization, is mentioned in the bill by name.

    Notice the use of the term "these people." This is a well-known attempt to create the sense of the lgbt community as "the other," hardly in keeping with the Church's plea that it respects all people. The same is true when you call unions that are legal in NYS "so-called gay marriages." Sorry, like it or not, I AM married according to the laws of the state of New York whether you like it or not. I love introducing my husband with that term -- husband. It drives the haters up the wall.

    Dolan lies when he says he was assured he had the votes to defeat equality. He uses this canard because he wanted to wield the gavel in his new role as president of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. He did not stay in NY to lobby against this bill. He wanted to cavort with his "brother bishops" and pontificate at their meeting. He got his wish, and so did my husband and I.

    If there is an organization that knows about a "very well-oiled, high-financed program of manipulation," it is the Catholic Church, which secretly sends money to NOM and other organizations to spread lies about the lgbt community that actually leads to violence against gays and lesbians from teenagers to old age. I don't even need to go into other lies perpetrated by the Church over the centuries and recently. Others have documented them.

    Dolan lied when he claimed clerks were fired for not performing "so-called gay marriages." Not one clerk has been fired. Ask him for one name of a town or city clerk who has been fired. There is not a single one. That said, no official paid through tax dollars, including mine and my husband's, should be allowed to disobey the law and not perform a civic duty because of someone's race, religion, or sexual orientation. If a clerk refused to issue a marriage document to a Catholic couple because s/he did not agree with the Catholic Church, you know Dolan would call for that clerk to step down or otherwise be removed from office.

    While there may be a constitutional duty to protect religious freedom, there is also an equal constitutional duty to protect civil liberty promulgated by laws duly adopted by the legislative process. Dolan's demand for religious liberty does not trump my husband's demand and mine for civil liberty. There is no hierarchy of liberties where his are greater than mine. This is not a theocracy, it is not the Vatican. He knows that but wants to be "more equal" than the lgbt community.

    Dolan tells the truth once. In the United States, "the government exists to protect our rights, now to bestow them or take them away." That includes my husband's rights and mine too, Archbishop.

    Posted by: Tim | Nov 26, 2011 8:19:51 PM

  8. I have no intention of clicking that link. The only thing I want to hear from Dolan is a full confession of his crimes once he has turned himself in to the authorities.

    Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Nov 26, 2011 8:36:47 PM

  9. @Tim - Great rebuttal. One question: Could you identify the source of the quote in your last paragraph? I would love to know who said that! Thanks much.

    Posted by: MajorTom | Nov 26, 2011 9:01:41 PM

  10. @MajorTom Thanks so much for your kind comment. My apologies for some repetition and a grammar error or two. I should have proofed it better.

    The line within the quotation marks in the last paragraph was a direct statement by Dolan taken from the above interview -- toward the end of the section that discussed marriage equality. I only threw that in to say what is true for his POV of the government's role in right is also true for mine.

    Posted by: Tim | Nov 26, 2011 9:11:08 PM

  11. He was mislead by politicians? The Archbishop is either a liar or a fool, and I doubt he rose so high in the church's power structure by being a fool.

    Posted by: Ed | Nov 26, 2011 9:12:38 PM

  12. Deceived? Dolan is deceiving himself if he thinks anybody believes this load of horse$hit. The FACT is that Dolan knew that the vote was going to pass. That's why he tried to distance himself from the political shenanigans and in-fighting that occurred in the weeks/days leading up to the vote. That's why he LEFT TOWN to address a bishops conference during the critical days leading up to the vote. He miscalculated that distancing himself from a failed campaign to continue denying marriage equality would save face for him with his congregation. He was wrong. The bigots in his church are furious at him for having failed and for not having delivered on his bigoted promise, and donations have been affected. Dolan's credibility has suffered within the church as well. This ridiculous story about being 'deceived' is just another desperate (and failing) atttempt to duck responsibility for his failure. Even among the faithful, there are tens of thousands who pray for the demise of Dolan and Ratzinger, and hunger for a reformation of the Church, so that it can return to relevance in the 21st century. Uneasy rest the heads of those who bear the beanies and pointy hats. When you see the pitchforks and torches in the street, it will be too late.

    Posted by: Sister Vira | Nov 27, 2011 12:15:42 AM

  13. @Tim - Thank you. I couldn't stomach much of the interview. I should have watched it in its entirety before asking you for clarification. Thank you for being so gracious about it.

    Posted by: MajorTom | Nov 27, 2011 2:28:12 AM

  14. I find Dolan's comments pretty funny. So he thought he cut a back-room deal and got taken. Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

    Posted by: Hunter | Nov 27, 2011 5:32:02 AM

  15. Timothy Dolan believes in talking snakes, dudes who can walk on water, and bread that magically turns into meat. How hard can he be to deceive?

    Posted by: jomicur | Nov 27, 2011 10:09:47 AM

  16. We remember this day 33 years ago, as the news spread East, that Harvey Milk and George Moscone had been assassinated by former SF fireman and cop, Dan White.

    Posted by: Ted | Nov 27, 2011 10:22:15 AM

  17. Parker and Tim - excellent comments. Thanks.

    Posted by: john patrick | Nov 27, 2011 12:49:07 PM

  18. @TIM: Kudos for a wonderful rebuttal to Miss Archbishop Thing. One wonders where the courageous reporter is who might confront this wretched excuse of a man with all the lies you have exposed and call this SOB out. We are talking about an effete, elitist snob who wouldn't know what suffering is if it came up and kicked him in his fat, flabby, Catholic can. The audacity of Dolan to cry "foul" because courageous politicians in NY State voted their conscious and not the dictates of Dolan's church is beyond comprehension. To you, Tim, or to Parker, your eloquence has made my Sunday a little brighter. Both of you should run for office. I'll not only vote for you, I'll volunteer to help in any way I can.

    Posted by: jamal49 | Nov 27, 2011 1:37:52 PM

  19. It's a "Oh, how the mighty have fallen!" kind of story. There aren't many religious denominations that have come out in favor of gay marriage, so Dolan's reactionary views are not unusual.

    Posted by: anon | Nov 27, 2011 1:53:37 PM

  20. Some one should pull dirt on Timothy Dolan..I'm sure he is not the angel he claims to go do it people..:) bring him down..:)

    Posted by: miles | Nov 27, 2011 10:36:06 PM

  21. Yes, tax the church! Start with the Catholic Church but get 'em all!

    Posted by: Ted | Nov 28, 2011 12:01:01 AM

  22. SCREW THESE ANCIENT FREAKS! Move ahead. Their ideas never will and have not worked! Your priests seem to the proof.


    Posted by: GRivera | Nov 28, 2011 6:51:08 AM

  23. And the Knights of Columbus - Loads of Cash - Maggie Gallagher & NOM - Funded and Brought to you by, Knights of Columbus. Dolan is an evil man.

    Posted by: RexT | Nov 28, 2011 8:40:58 AM

  24. The only way the Catholic church, or any other religeon, can endure is by it's "Believers" contributing money each week at Mass so that the priests and Nuns do not have to go out and earn an honest salary to support themselves. Oh! And these "Believers" have to produce lots of children to be trained and brainwashed into supporting the Priests and Nuns after their parents die.

    Leviticus realized that marriage and children were the keys to perpetuating the system. That is why he decided to create his list of sexual sins that would help the system to continue. After all, if sexual activities do not result in new children to be thus trained, the religion will slowly die off. That is why men who sleep with women not their wives, and men who sleep with other men, and men who sleep with prostitutes,etc, are to be put to death because these acts, generally, do not produce any children that will be brought up to put money in church collection plates.

    Posted by: Jerry6 | Nov 28, 2011 9:16:49 PM

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