1. says

    exactly. like when Donald Trump was rambling about his belief in “traditional marriage”

    yeah. traditional like flying your mistress to the winter resort your family is vacationing at over Christmas so you can boff her in secret, then getting busted, divorcing your wife, marrying your mistress, then divorcing her before the 10 year anniversary so you don’t have to pay her as much in alimony after you leave her for a younger supermodel.

    tradition indeed.

  2. Alan says

    Yes, because Barney Frank and partner running a prostitution ring from their home is like, an ideal message the gay community should be sending in the debate on DOMA, the policy signed into law by Democrat Bill Clinton.

  3. Rick says

    One thing I do like about Barney Frank is his boldness and directness in confronting others like Gingrich for their hypocrisy and for not shying away from confronting straight men (and women) as individuals,not in defensive mode, but in offensive mode, which most gay men would never do, out of fear. Impressive.

    That said, I hardly think that reducing marriage to the lowest common denominator constitutes a convincing defense of the institution and its appropriateness for same-sex relationships…..and until long-term relationships become more the norm for gay people rather than the rare exception, I think that pushing the envelope when it comes to marriage rights is a risky proposition…….Let’s not forget that half of all straight marriages still last “forever”, despite the high divorce rate……which I doubt is the case with more than 2% of gay relationships, especially gay male relationships

    And ole Barney has demonstrated a bit of hypocrisy of his own, to be honest…..

    Still, his sharp tongue will be missed when it comes to putting the Gingrich’s of the world in their place……

  4. Butch says

    Rick, I live in a rural and remote area, so maybe we’re not the norm, but last Sunday I had dinner with a group of gay friends, all in committed relationships; they’ve (or “we’ve,” since I’m the 19 years in the list that follows) been together for 30, 19, 12, and 6 years, so I don’t know why you consider long-term relationships the rare exception.

  5. says

    RICK, just because you can’t see any happy healthy and successful gay relationships from the confines of the closet you still insist on living in doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.

    there’s a world of happy, content, blissfully-in-love gay couples out there.

    when are you going to stop sucking up to the father who’s ashamed of you? your dad hates you because you’re gay, and you hate other gay people because your dad hates you.

    just because you’re going to be single and unloved forever doesn’t mean the rest of us are similarly doomed. if you stopped hating “femmes” so much maybe you’d see that there’s a world of more than content gay people and couples out there. you know, they’re the ones who learned how to stand up to their dads and claim their lives as their own.

    you don’t think gay male relationships work? that’s because you’re a lousy gay man who hates himself, hates being gay, and hates all the happy gay men who arent’ afflicted by your pathetic insecurities.


  6. says

    whenever a self-loathing gay man like RICK talks about “other gay men” he actually says more about himself than anything about Other Gay Men.

    most of my gay friends in relationships have been together long-term. i know a great many married gay couples who had weddings AFTER already being together for more than 10 years.

    it’s only the insecure wimpy gays like RICK who can’t make marriages work. they’re still so busy trying to convince their bigot fathers that they’re “not like those other stereotypical fags” that they forget to, you know, become interesting and decent people who are capable of loving, healthy reciprocal relationships.


  7. Rick says

    @Butch Anecdotes are fine, but most of us know what the realities of gay life are…..and the statistics on marriage are beginning to bear that out in the states (and countries) that have legalized it, with only a very small percentage of the gay population having taken advantage of the change in the law.

    All I am saying is that crusading in favor of same-sex marriage is going to allow society to “call our bluff”….and that that is a potentially dangerous scenario.

    I personally think we should be going in the opposite direction, trying to change the male culture in such a way as to liberate men from the unnatural constraints of sexual monogamy–which is basically a female value–at the same time that we work to strengthen the institution of marriage, itself, in recognition of it being the best set-up for raising children successfully, at least if one parent stays home.

    A commitment to providing children with a secure and stable home environment, but one which allows men the freedom to follow their natural tendencies to have more than one sex partner over a lifetime….

    A very different view from gay men trying to emulate traditional male-female relationships….and usually failing…..

  8. Robert in NYC says

    Alan, the thing is, Barney Frank isn’t married which is relevant to the DOMA debate more than his alledged “prostitution” ring. Gingrich committed adultery twice while sanctimoniously preaching the sanctity of marriage and family values, ditto David Vitter, Mark Sanford John Ensign,et al. Why is it republicans be they civil libertarians or tea party scumbaggers can’t accept responsibility and the hypocrisy that they’re so notorious for? At least a philandering democrat nowadays wouldn’t support legislation against gay people and by the way,I didn’t see any republicans oppose Clinton signing DOMA into law either, none. Clinton now supports repeal of it, name one republican who does? Don’t give me Ron Paul either. He believes in DOMA if states legislate for and against it and he made that quite clear. The recent Respect for Marriage Act authored by Senator Leahy (D)received next to no support from any republicans.Lets face it, the GOP has done NOTHING for LGBT people and will continue to do nothing.Name one piece of legislation it intends to support in regard to LGBT equality? I can’t.

  9. RyanInSacto says

    @Ted B: I don’t think he’s claiming that he is “the paradigm [I think you mean paragon, btw] for successful, stable long-term relationships.” The fact of the matter is, he’s not the one running around claiming that same-sex marriage (or any other kind of marriage) ruins the “sanctity” of marriage. So it doesn’t really matter what his personal life has been like. On the other hand, if Newt is telling us that we have to “protect” marriage or whatever, I guess he’d better start protecting it in his own home first. Get it?

  10. Tonic says


    ‘All I am saying is that crusading in favor of same-sex marriage is going to allow society to “call our bluff”….and that that is a potentially dangerous scenario.’

    What bluff? There is no bluff to be had. Everyone should have the right to marry the person they love. It doesn’t matter how many others fail at it – that’s irrelevant.

    And among the people I know around my age (mid-thirties) the longest running relationships are among my gay friends – hands down!

  11. anon says

    I’m sure everyone defending DOMA in court will also feel proud of their work for years to come. Frank will probably stick to very safe TV appearances on MSNBC lest they bring up Fannie and Freddie and his various other lovers (political). On mainstream news sites the comments were approaching 100% that it was time for him to leave. He’s perfectly electable in MA, but the rest of the country associates him with the 2008 banking collapse and subsequent bailout.

  12. John D says

    Alan, do you have any proof for your outrageous claim that Barney Frank ran a prostitution ring from his home? That’s not how I remember the story.

    What I remember is that Steve Gobie outed Frank in revenge several years after Frank kicked him out of Frank’s home. Barney Frank admitted that he hired Gobie as an escort (yeah, prostitute), convinced him to leave escorting, found him a job, then broke up with him and kicked him out when he found that Gobie was hooking or pimping on the side.

    It stayed quiet until Gobie decided to sell his story. Since then, the fantasy world version of it has dominated discussions of Congressman Frank. As you tell it, the man’s DC’s gay madam.

    Personally, I was more concerned when he was dating a banker.

  13. BobN says

    Rick seems to be complaining that gay men are doing exactly what he thinks we should all be working for: lots of freedom and a few marriages.

    Confused, I’d say.

  14. RyanInSacto says

    @RB: “Finally!!! Maybe now we can fix the financial debacle that he has left us.”

    Wow. One senator created the financial meltdown? Fascinating. Please explain, in detail, how this happened.

  15. Paul R says

    Looking for logic and consistency in certain people’s posts is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

    Actually I guess that’s not quite true if the needle exists—that means that it could conceivably be found.

  16. RyanInSacto says

    RB: Touché. He is a US Representative – my bad. There are 435 of them. So go ahead and explain how 1 of 435 Representatives caused a financial crisis in the largest economy the world has ever known. I’ll be waiting for you to inform me.

  17. RB says

    The only consistent presence on the Financial Services Committee throughout the entire financial meltdown was Barney Frank who for more than two decades has been a member of the House committee charged with oversight of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    The Bush administration, whom I NEVER voted for nor supported, called for oversight for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac 17 times before the meltdown. The administration further tried to remove oversight from congress and move that responsibility to the Treasury Dept because congress “neither has the tools, nor the stature” to provide adequate oversight. Barney Frank, clearly at the center of power of the financial services committee, opposed and fought the transfer of power to the Treasury Dept stating “These two entities …are not facing any kind of financial crisis … The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing”. As recently as July 2008 in an CNBC interview Frank stated “I think this is a case where Fannie and Freddie are fundamentally sound, that they are not in danger of going under. They’re not the best investments these days from the long-term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward.” July 2008, just months before they failed!

    He owns the responsiblity for the sub-prime mortgage meltdown, his boyfriend certainly wasn’t harmed by Frank’s decisions as he recommended his live-in companion for a job at one of the housing agencies in the early 1990s at the same time Congress was writing legislation to improve oversight of the agency and Frank accepted thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from the financial and real estate industry. Not to mention the Dodd-Frank banking reform bill which has caused angst for many a middle class American in new fees for checking accounts and debit cards.

    I will give Frank credit, and be grateful for his work on LGBT rights, but will forever fault him for the financial mess the housing market has been in for the last five years!

  18. What really happened says

    Now I know what RB stands for. Republican Bootlicker.
    Republicans were in the super majority control of that committee for most of the time that Barney Frank was in it.
    Bet RB can’t name the Republican who was in charge of it before B.F. was.
    A huge chunk of the bad loans were generated from around 2001/2 to 2004/5. Many of those loans were 3 year ARMS, where the interest rate did not balloon until after the 3rd year. That is what caused many of the foreclosures to begin with. When the ARM’s ran out (starting in about 2004) and many of those people did not or could not refinance, they could not afford the new payments and foreclosures started to happen more rapidly. RB’s statement about Frank is about a year before the whole mess started to unravel.
    From 2001 to 2003, subprime loans were not as prevalent, only about 10% of the market (that percentage doubled over the next 2 to 3 years, so when Frank made the statement RB quoted, subprimes were not even prevalent yet (nowhere near 30%). Fannie and Freddie were both in decent shape if only on paper. The ARM’s started to run out in 2004, but it was just a trickle. The housing market started to collapse in 2006 for the same reasons I mentioned above – again, before Frank even assumed control of the committee.
    Frank was in no position as minority chair to implement his own influence on Fannie/Freddie policies until Jan, 2007 which as I noted, was after the ship started to sink. To blame Frank for the whole thing makes absolutely no sense at all.

  19. RyanInSacto says

    RB: I have a few questions for you.

    Were Fannie and Freddie the only financial institutions that contributed to the financial crisis? I seem to remember something about Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns. Was Barney Frank on their boards of directors?

    Did the Bush administration, via their friend Alan Greenspan, keep interest rates low so that there would be a housing boom? And did Bush himself not, in fact, call for an “ownership society” in which people would own their own homes (apparently whether they could afford them or not)?

    Is the financial services committee an autocracy or does it run by majority rule?

    Did the Dodd-Frank legislation actually require “new fees for checking accounts and debit cards” or is that how the banks responded to new regulation that prohibited them from charging obscene interest rates on credit cards, often after only one missed payment?

    I’m sorry, but it seems illogical at best and disingenuous at worst to blame a colossal economic meltdown on a single member of congress. A more obvious answer to how we got into this financial crisis is that the Glass-Steagall Act, which once prohibited the kind of shenanigans that took place, was repealed in 1999. By the way, Barney Frank voted against repeal. (

  20. RB says

    “Republican Bootlicker”? I can always count on the vile and vitriol of my fellow gays. While I continue to read this blog I stopped posting here several years back for this reason. Apparently I did not learn a damn thing! The very moment one of us leaves the democratic plantation the others circle the wagons and eviscerate! God forbid anyone have a opposing view point.

    As for WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, you are entitled to your opinion just the same as I. I for one do not happen to agree. There, that’s how you disagree accordingly without the use of name callings and childhood bitchery. And as for being a republican, which I am not, I have too much heart to be a republican and too much brain to be a democrat! I am 100% solidly a libertarian.

    Take care

  21. What really happened says

    RE:” I can always count on the vile and vitriol of my fellow gays.”
    You mean like you repeating Fox News lies and blaming B. Frank for the entire financial meltdown.
    You mean like you stating “Finally!!! Maybe now we can fix the financial debacle that he has left us.”
    Before you start complaining about other gay’s “vile and vitriol” you need to start with yourself.
    You sure do sound like a Republican – i.e. you can dish it out but you can’t take it.
    I didn’t post “opinion” I posted facts.
    Also, before you go off on peoples “name callings and childhood bitchery” you should again look in the mirror.

  22. Kevin Karstens says

    “Yes, because Barney Frank and partner running a prostitution ring from their home is like, an ideal message the gay community”

    Wow, imagine the weight that moronic LIE would carry if it WERE TRUE.

    it’s NOT.
    The ‘ring’ wasnt ‘run by Frank’, and it wasn’t Frank’s partner that ran it…it was done by a guy Frank barely KNEW for a few days, back in the 80’s and without Frank KNOWING about it. Then again, the truth has a way of interfering with hate filled propaganda, doesn’t it?

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