1. Dastius Krazitauc says

    Their attitudes about this really pissed me off. Their stock in trade is gossip, with a large part of their “Hot Topics” devoted to it on a daily basis. They slobber over celebrities’ sex lives, addictions, crimes, divorces, affairs, but somehow gossiping about whether a dead celebrity might have been gay is crossing a line, is unseemly and is disrespectful to their families? It says a lot about how they really feel about homosexuality. How about Sherri Shepherd’s disgust at the claim Cary Grant was gay?

    Kudos to Joy for calling them out on it, saying there is nothing wrong with being gay.

  2. Eric says

    In addition to the obvious conclusions from this (Elizabeth Hasselbeck is a moron and doesn’t care that anyone knows, Joy Behar is a voice of reason, and it’s impossible to listen to what any of them says since they all talk over each other), the hypocrisy and double-standards are disgusting. They spend an hour every day gushing over the private lives of everyone else, true and alleged, without blinking an eye, and now suddenly gay experiences are off the table? They should be ashamed of themselves.

  3. Abel says

    Dastius, good comment! I think it IS important to know about the “hidden” world back then. It doesn’t change my opinion of the accomplishments of these actors, for example, but it does make them fuller persons to me. Besides, we’ve heard most of these rumors for years. Nice to have some first hand confirmation.

  4. says

    Well Joy’s WAY ahead of the curve on a show like this

    I had heard about “The Famous Scottie” as George Cukor referred to him, for years. When I was writing my book I made an attempt at getting in touch with him but it was no go. Now I know why. He was planning a boook of his own — and here it is at last.

    Katherine Hepburn was a lesbian who successfully closeted herself for YEARS thanks to a credulous press that bought the bannana-oil she ladelled out about herself and Tracy. Yes they were very close friends but there was nothing sexual between them whatsoever. He was an alcoholic and she adored being his co-dependent. He was bisexual but on the whole didn’t have the sex drive she exhibited in spades.

    Can’t wait to read the book because I’m wondering if Scottie goes into the atory of why Hepburn left “Travels with My Aunt” — a stab-in-the-back that nearly destroyed her freindship with George Cukor. There was a starlet named Joy Bang of whom La Hepburn was terribly superfond. She DEMANDED that Joy be cast as the hippie girl in the film. The producers did’t care for her, preferrign Cindy Williams — who got the part. Joy had a pretty good career going up until that point (seeher credits at IMDB) but after it she left the business and became a practical nurse.

    It’s also pretty clear that Hepburn’s closet obsession was the reason why she hated next-door-neighbor Stephen Sondheim so much. The boys next door were having too much fun for the old bat to tolerate.

  5. Rin says


    What about Howard Hughes? Any scoop? He bedded Hepburn (supposedly)…was that a money thing on her part or…? I always thought she was a lesbian, and Tracy her “beard”. But Howard Hughes was a well known straight male ho, so it didn’t fit for me.

    What’s the scoop?

  6. says

    From what I’ve heard Highes wasn’t as straight as all that. Plenty of rumor. Maybe he was one of Scottie’s customers.

    In any event in the voluminous files George Cukor left at the Motion Picture Academy Arts and Scienes library there’s a ton and a half of letters to all and sundry. In the ones he write to Somerset Maugham’s secretary (and lover) there are frequent references to “The Famous Scottie” who used to supply the boys for Mr. Cukor’s all-male pool parties.

  7. Rick says

    And so once again, you are all seeing your delusions about straight women being “friends of gays”–even liberal straight women–being shattered.

    Yes, of course there is hypocrisy and a double standard here. Why? Because they are horrified that any of the male actors they projected their ideas of romance onto were actually gay–No, for them, gay men are not supposed to be masculine and sexy and desireable; they are, instead, supposed to be foppish little playthings who dress their hair, decorate their houses, and give them moral support when it comes to their relationships with REAL men.

    And this, of course, is why no gay male actor of any consequence in Hollywood has ever come out, even in the 21st Century……it is not that the studios would have a problem with it; it is that straight women would stop buying tickets to films in which actors known to be gay would have romantic roles.

    Just another example of how the interests of gay men and straight women not only do not coincide, but, in fact, are at odds with each other…..

  8. says

    “Of any consequence”?

    What’s “consequence” in your world? The era of the old-fashioned “Leading man” is long gone. They’re all character actors now. And the most important thing for any performeris to be “branded” — like Neil Patrick Harris.

  9. George M says

    I love str8 women, their good for the community and the majority support us. I have some great ones in my life. There’s a lot of hate from gay man towards women on here, that’s all it is hate. Well them and feminine men.

    For me I don’t care if they were gay or not. I’d rather read a book outing anti gay republicans and democrats!!

  10. says

    ignore RICK – his dad has champagne on ice as he waits for him to hang himself. don’t feed the troll. he himself can’t post a link to show that he’s Out – why? he’s not. closeted, angry, insecure, self-hating, pathetic. don’t worry, though. he’ll die.


    There’s an incredible book called “Conversations With My Elders”, by Boze Hadleigh, that I read last summer.

    It’s a collection of interviews with Rock Hudson, Cecil Beaton, George Cukor, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, Luchino Visconti, Sal Mineo…about art, life, love and being Gay in an anti-gay world.

    it’s insightful, heartbreakingly sad, touching, and inspiring.
    the book was published after all of the man had already passed on.

    it’s important to have stories like this – to show just how strong anti-gay culture is, and what it reduces people to.

    whether it’s those with fake public marriages, or the pathetic homosexual males like RICK who in 2012 are still as sadly closeted and insecure as some of those men were back in 1955, it serves as an indicator of what prejudice does to people.

    i highly recommend you all seek it out.

  11. says

    Boze Hadleigh is not without interest but a tad on the superficial side.

    There’s a teriffic documentary on Visconti that I think you can still find on YouTube that goes into a lot about his life especially his efforts (pretty successful) to turn his boytoy Helmut Berger into a Big Movie Star. He cut much of Dirk Bogarde’s performance in “The Damned” out of the film to build Berger up. When he did he wrote to Bogarde to apologize saying he’d make it up to him.

    He made it up to bogarde with “Death in Venice” — one of the greatest performances and giggest films of his entire career.

  12. says

    If i had known about gay celebrities beyond Charles Nelson Reilly and Wally Cox, I would be a much more well-adusted person today. I felt so alone and it turns out there were many more people like me. I can respect privacy and yet, what a difference knowing you’re not alone makes.

  13. candideinnc says

    Gossip mongering is a vice. If people want to keep their sexual lives private, and they don’t do political harm, they should enjoy their privacy. Performers should not have to sacrifice their private lives to work in any profession. If there is one thing wrong about this book, it is that it writes lurid stories about dead people who cannot defend their reputations. And it isn’t the matter of whether people are gay or not which may be relevant, but the matter of whether they were promiscuous.

  14. says

    CandideinNC, i wasn’t aware that only gay people had private lives.

    i have to wonder how all those poor openly-heterosexual movie stars are about to have Private Lives considering we all know that they’re heterosexual….

    that’s the thing though, isn’t it? that the longer we excuse our gayness as a “private personal matter” the longer this nonsense Closet Culture will continue?

    and thanks for the heads-up Ehrenstein! will look for the doc!

  15. jamal49 says

    Why talk about the sexuality of dead celebrities? What is the point of Mr. Bowers writing this book now? What difference will it make except to further advance our “culture of titillation” which, in my opinion, has reached its nadir and still hasn’t hit bottom. Writing about deceased people and speculating or, I suppose in Mr. Bowers case, confirming what insiders have known for years changes nothing except to show the continuing lack of taste and discretion of our 24/7 media. Those people are DEAD and they cannot speak for themselves and it is frankly disgusting to be exposing such things after the fact. There was another Hollywood “insider” who probably knew 1000 times more “secrets” than the decrepit Scotty Bowers did. Yet, the gentleman was discrete and carried his secrets about others to his grave. That would be Roddy McDowell. One wishes that Mr. Bowers and the rest of the media vultures and their enablers would have the class to do the same.

  16. Oskar says


    Could you please take your misogyny elsewhere? The opinions expressed by some of the women on the view are no different than opinions you would hear from some straight men and some LGBT people.

    Let’s all take a reality check that acceptance of being gay has changed RADICALLY in just the last few years. It was only 3.5 years ago that a plurality of Californians voted against same sex marriage. Very few people thought in 2008 that LGB people would be able to serve openly in the U.S. military. It was a desire/goal, but still unlikely.

    Many states in the U.S. still have legalized discrimination against LGBT people in the workplace.

  17. Lane says

    The only thing shocking about this segment is that the stupid broad doesn’t know who Spencer Tracy is.

  18. Caliban says

    Gore Vidal, who spent plenty of time in Hollywood, has endorsed the book.

    “I have known Scotty Bowers for the better part of a century. I’m so pleased that he has finally decided to tell his story to the world. His startling memoir includes great figures like Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn. Scotty doesn’t lie-the stars sometimes do — and he knows everybody.”
    – Gore Vidal

    The View discusses gossip ALL THE TIME. People’s reaction this seems to depend on one factor, whether or not that they think being called gay is a slur that NEEDS to be “defended” against.

  19. Rin says


    maybe your impression is because straight men have no problem, and often do, fantasize about girl on girl action (provided the girls look like Megan Fox as opposed to Ellen), so they wouldn’t avoid watching a movie with a gay–wait, what am I saying?? Straight men don’t go to rom-coms unless forced so you have no comparison.

    And, btw, you’re wrong wrong wrong. Rupert E played a straight guy in an Ideal Husband and EVERY chick I know was drooling and he’s been out for forever.

    A little secret…

    Movies aren’t real.

    Keanu Reeves didn’t really avoid being riddled by bullets and Gene Kelly didn’t spontaneously burst into song and dance.

  20. Rick says

    @RIN Well, here is what Rupert says about his own experience:

    And here is a broader article about the whole “leading man”/”romantic role” issue and how it cripples gay actors. They don’t specifically mention straight women, but everybody knows that straight men don’t care about “romantic leads”, any more than gay men or lesbians do…….all you have to do is read between the lines to understand what is actually being said….namely that straight women will not accept openly gay men as romantic leads and that is why gay male actors are crippled in their attempts to build careers, unless they stay deeply closeted.

    Sorry, but this is just common knowledge in Hollywood……

  21. says

    why aren’t YOU Out, RICK?


    Still waiting for you to provide the URL to your own page or video where you show us all the strong masculine empowered gay male Out example you feel should be represented.

    alas, you’ll ignore this post of mine. because you couldn’t possibly show yourself as an Out gay man. because you’re a coward.

  22. just_a_guy says

    am I the only one curious to hear RIN’s response to the admittedly-sometimes-extreme-“Rick” here? haha.

  23. just_a_guy says

    OK, so no response from RIN. But here’s my take.

    Rick is right: Straight women have a problem with considering openly gay or openly bi men attractive.

    And it’s because of the AIDs epidemic and the Reagan-inspired approach to HIV/AIDs that is STILL the primary way the U.S. approaches HIV/AIDs: Isolate gay men and let them die; don’t treat them as humans that matter.

    The reason HIV is currently on the rise among early 20-something gay men is that HIV/AIDs policy treats newly-out young gay men as disposable, worthless, and DESERVING HIV/AIDs.

    Most middle schools and high schools still refuse to teach safe sex to possibly-gay kids, and refuse to teach possibly-gay kids that they deserve a relationship and love like anyone else. Thus, when these gay kids come out, they are not prepared to insist on safe sex and they are more likely to seek promiscuous sex as they are not taught that they deserve better.

    So is it any surprise that HIV/AIDs is still a problem among early-20-something gay men?

    And so is it REALLY any surprise that the straight ladies on the view still have biases against finding gay or bi men attractive?

  24. just_a_guy says

    What’s more: Folks, stop simply discounting “Rick” based on the premise that he is still in the closet. If he is still in the closet, only SOME of his views would thereby be deserving suspect status, NOT all of them.

    Plus, maybe the perspective of someone in the closet SOMETIMES involves unique and valuable insights.

  25. says

    rick is a self-hating homosexual, a racist, a misogynistic coward and a wimp.

    he’s yet to give any valuable insights. he does, however, serve as a shining example of what anti-gay prejudice and bigotry can reduce a man to.

    he’s a terrific example for young people for what not to become in life.

  26. says

    So it has nothing to do with straight men possibly not wanting to see Openly Gay men in film?


    how, perhaps, would you be able to blame straight women for there being no openly gay male action film stars?

  27. just_a_guy says

    L’il K: just sayin that the supposedly “macho” culture u blame is WAY more shaped by what the ho-hum straight guy IMAGINES women think than u acknowledge. Plus, ALSO sayin that those ho-hum straight guys are NOT thoroughly out of touch with straight women; some of the most resolute and thorough-going anti-gay bigots in any given locale include cadres of apparently “nice” straight chicks. Am I wrong?